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Sanguinia posted:The way that the two sides of this conversation seem to be "I am upset that Lee Carter made it so Right To Work Repeal is off the table for the entire year," and "I am pleased that Lee Carter gave me new and exciting reasons to hate Democrats," is certainly providing some interesting insight into the pulse of D&D's community. yea I guess if you make stuff up and attribute quotes from your imagination to people it sounds pretty bad Aruan posted:at the end its about framing. if you, for example, don't live in va and just assume that all va democrats are bad therefore good things can't happen, lee carter is righteously crusading against bad people. on the other hand, if you live in va, recognize that local political alignment at these low levels is more fluid, and take notice of the many extremely progressive things coming out - including other labor rights reforms, increasing the minimum wage, legalizing marijuana, ending the death penalty, substantial criminal justice reform, etc. etc., the situation becomes more complicated, and it seems quite disappointing that the person most associated with repealing RTW acts like an SA poster who can't stop tweeting. many of us hoped that lee carter would be part of a new wave of younger that could push the caucus left on their particular issues - for lee carter it's labor rights - and where others have been successful he's failed. the success of the other democrats, and lee's apparent one man crusade against the rest of the caucus, suggest to me that a significant portion of the blame rests with his approach. maybe, or maybe the entrenched business interests and party bosses are more willing to give ground on good progressive goals that don't threaten the existing power relationships between management and labor, like legal weed and abolishing the death penalty, but are implacably opposed to anything that might upset the applecart like repealing right-to-work or forbidding retaliation against workers for filing workers' comp so some things are easier to pass than others VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 01:44
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you mean business friendly progressive laws like significantly expanding virginia's anti-discrimination employment laws, significantly expanding employer liability for wage theft or misclassifying employees, getting rid of non-competes for many employees, allowing public sector unions, increasing the minimum wage, among many others? its interesting that you mentioned retaliation - many of the measures passed do specifically protect employees from retaliation for filing against their employers!
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 04:49
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Aruan posted:you mean business friendly progressive laws like significantly expanding virginia's anti-discrimination employment laws, significantly expanding employer liability for wage theft or misclassifying employees, getting rid of non-competes for many employees, allowing public sector unions, increasing the minimum wage, among many others? its interesting that you mentioned retaliation - many of the measures passed do specifically protect employees from retaliation for filing against their employers! not workers' comp apparently there seems to be stronger pushback even if business doesn't win every time
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Feb 21, 2021 04:59
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Harold Fjord posted:Ok so you have some sort of evidence that they were? I can't prove a negative here. It took us considerable time, resources, and energy defending Lee Carter after this oppo dump. We are talking money and manhours that could have been spent elsewhere. Like, the ammo he gave for lit drops alone was enough to make the race a complete tossup. And considering the majority margins a toss-up was not something we could afford. The stuff he released about not paying child support was especially damning and hard to counter. Lee just loving sandbagged his campaign staff, his allies, and the caucus by releasing all of that while drunk and....it was not helpful at all. Resources had to be reallocated and that hurt other candidates. What he did was selfish, vain, and just plain loving stupid and made it really hard to defend his seat. Again, Lee Carter is not a team player. This kind of behavior became more and more the norm in my experience working with him directly and with his campaign. friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 06:57
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VitalSigns posted:not workers' comp apparently You are presenting a bill which was introduced by Lee and saying that its failure indicates that legislation unfriendly to capital is unlikely to pass. This is in response to an argument that progressive legislation which is not introduced by Lee stands a fair chance of passing, he's just such an rear end in a top hat that his should-be allies are shunning him on principle. Do you not feel like this is missing the point? Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 07:05
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hello I live in fuckin' garbage-rear end South Dakota (we did pass both medicinal and recreational marijuana last fall but it's gonna get squashed by the governor) and Kristi Noem is definitely running in 2024 for the VP slot she also might challenge John Thune (currently #2 in the GOP senate) in 2022. she's positioning herself as a hardcore Trump loyalist she's basically Sarah Palin v2.0 also re: Lee Carter maybe you guys should listen to the posters here who were deeply involved in his campaign?. Just a thought. I don't know poo poo about VA politics but I feel like if you're going to have a dumb multi-page argument about whether Lee Carter is a terminally online dumbass or not you should maybe value the opinions of people who have loving real-life on-the-ground experience with him and his political campaign.
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Feb 21, 2021 07:13
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Fritz the Horse posted:hello I live in fuckin' garbage-rear end South Dakota (we did pass both medicinal and recreational marijuana last fall but it's gonna get squashed by the governor) and Kristi Noem is definitely running in 2024 for the VP slot nah dems bad (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 21, 2021 07:30
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Eletriarnation posted:You are presenting a bill which was introduced by Lee and saying that its failure indicates that legislation unfriendly to capital is unlikely to pass. This is in response to an argument that progressive legislation which is not introduced by Lee stands a fair chance of passing, he's just such an rear end in a top hat that his should-be allies are shunning him on principle. Do you not feel like this is missing the point? I'm inclined to blame people voting against a good bill because they dont like a guy than the guy beingva jerk on twitter. Honestly, it gives me 2016 "politicians anonymously whining about Sanders' history of pushing good amendments because he didnt pat the right backs" vibes.
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Feb 21, 2021 07:39
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Neurolimal posted:I'm inclined to blame people voting against a good bill because they dont like a guy than the guy beingva jerk on twitter. Do you honestly not feel like Carter being abandoned by other Virginia socialists, progressive politicians including the bill's cosponsors AND labor unions over this stunt is indicative that maybe there was more to those no votes on a good bill than personal dislike, tweets and Liberals Hating Leftism?
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Feb 21, 2021 07:57
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'I'm going to let your former employer steal your money because a man made mean tweets' isn't a winning argument. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 21, 2021 08:19
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Neurolimal posted:I'm inclined to blame people voting against a good bill because they dont like a guy than the guy beingva jerk on twitter. Yes, that would be my initial inclination as well. However, we've had several pages now from people who seem to be a lot more familiar with the process than I am explaining how Lee's unwillingness to get with the program hinders all of the progressives in the legislature in return for giving him the chance to grandstand about his personal objectives. As someone else already said, we all know why it makes sense to start an argument over someone else cutting in line even if it's more of a pain in the moment than just letting them do it. Ghost Leviathan posted:'I'm going to let your former employer steal your money because a man made mean tweets' isn't a winning argument. This shitpost taking a swing at a lazy strawman isn't a winning argument either. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 08:20
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Eletriarnation posted:You are presenting a bill which was introduced by Lee and saying that its failure indicates that legislation unfriendly to capital is unlikely to pass. This is in response to an argument that progressive legislation which is not introduced by Lee stands a fair chance of passing, he's just such an rear end in a top hat that his should-be allies are shunning him on principle. Do you not feel like this is missing the point? Maybe but then that circles back to why is voting to let management gently caress people for even thinking about workers' comp an acceptable way to get one over on someone for some office politics tiff Like I have a hard time believing he's the sole rear end in a top hat here when you've got other legislators voting to gently caress workers for any reason let alone reasons as petty as "well I just don't like this guy" I just don't understand why that's being excused Eletriarnation posted:As someone else already said, we all know why it makes sense to start an argument over someone else cutting in line even if it's more of a pain in the moment than just letting them do it. If he was 'cutting in line' at all, given that the people peddling that narrative conveniently left out the fact that when he waited patiently in line the year before the party bosses took advantage of that to make sure the bill never made it through the line to get a floor vote at all VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 14:18
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Sanguinia posted:Do you honestly not feel like Carter being abandoned by other Virginia socialists, progressive politicians including the bill's cosponsors AND labor unions over this stunt is indicative that maybe there was more to those no votes on a good bill than personal dislike, tweets and Liberals Hating Leftism? no one's provided anything showing that that is happening related to this stunt just stuff about him being mean to be people on Twitter which was actually people being mean to him on Twitter. if the issue is how he is cutting in line you can find other ways to make an example of him and dissuade repetition of his stunt then by shutting down a good bill.
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Feb 21, 2021 15:55
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friendbot2000 posted:It took us considerable time, resources, and energy defending Lee Carter after this oppo dump. We are talking money and manhours that could have been spent elsewhere. Like, the ammo he gave for lit drops alone was enough to make the race a complete tossup. And considering the majority margins a toss-up was not something we could afford. There is some sort of polling then? I was just asking people to prove the assertions that his Twitter honesty negatively impacted his campaign and it needed saving. Seems to have won by a healthy margin but I'm skeptical of anonymous claims of fixing all the dumb guys mistakes, which is being asserted as proof that he is dumb, but no actual proof that it needed saving in the first place.
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Feb 21, 2021 16:00
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Harold Fjord posted:no one's provided anything showing that that is happening related to this stunt just stuff about him being mean to be people on Twitter which was actually people being mean to him on Twitter. Alright, after finally catching up on this thread after being busy over the last few days, I'm real tired of this days old argument and watching it just go in circles. Friendbot (among other posters) have a backed up history (in this thread even) that that they have worked in VA local politics for years at this point. This isn't new information if you've been posting in this thread or others like it. They didn't just drop into the thread to randomly poo poo on Lee Carter a couple of days ago, they have the posting history to prove that they are indeed connected to VA politics. So I'm willing to take their word for it all things considered. If you're not, that's your right and fair enough, but your arguments against their personal experiences isn't really going anywhere at this point and they've offered up more than enough to explain themselves and their belief that Carter has hosed up. Unless you have something new to offer up, drop the argument now because I am getting real tired of seeing the same "This is what my personal experiences of working in VA politics has been like, and one of those experiences is that Lee Carter has hosed things up for himself and others" followed by the award winning rebuttal of "Prove it  " rinse repeat. So again, unless you have something new to offer, Drop it.
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Feb 21, 2021 17:38
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Ah love that debate and discussion (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 21, 2021 17:46
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Handsome Ralph posted:Alright, after finally catching up on this thread after being busy over the last few days, I'm real tired of this days old argument and watching it just go in circles. Friendbot (among other posters) have a backed up history (in this thread even) that that they have worked in VA local politics for years at this point. This isn't new information if you've been posting in this thread or others like it. They didn't just drop into the thread to randomly poo poo on Lee Carter a couple of days ago, they have the posting history to prove that they are indeed connected to VA politics. So I'm willing to take their word for it all things considered. If you're not, that's your right and fair enough, but your arguments against their personal experiences isn't really going anywhere at this point and they've offered up more than enough to explain themselves and their belief that Carter has hosed up. I asked for literally any sources for literally anything. Sorry if that was unreasonable. no one has any so I guess I'll drop it because clearly they don't have local newspapers in VA. If you read the whole thread I expect there will be forthcoming action on the continuous posting about posters and psychoanalyzing their reasons for not just trusting that one guy's opinion is also fact.
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Feb 21, 2021 17:52
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Harold Fjord posted:I asked for literally any sources for literally anything. Sorry if that was unreasonable. no one has any so I guess I'll drop it because clearly they don't have local newspapers in VA. I read the whole thread, hence the post. Seriously, drop it.
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Feb 21, 2021 17:54
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Harold Fjord posted:There is some sort of polling then? I was just asking people to prove the assertions that his Twitter honesty negatively impacted his campaign and it needed saving. Seems to have won by a healthy margin but I'm skeptical of anonymous claims of fixing all the dumb guys mistakes, which is being asserted as proof that he is dumb, but no actual proof that it needed saving in the first place. I'm skeptical that anyone would be dumb enough to put down that they fixed all the dumb guy's mistakes except anonymously.
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Feb 21, 2021 18:58
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So what happens if someone else anonymously states that they worked on Carter's campaign and he's actually very savvy and cool and the other anonymous poster is a sore butthead that was fired for improper behavior Is there a posting hierarchy (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 22, 2021 02:13
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Neurolimal posted:So what happens if someone else anonymously states that they worked on Carter's campaign and he's actually very savvy and cool and the other anonymous poster is a sore butthead that was fired for improper behavior Handsome Ralph posted:Friendbot (among other posters) have a backed up history (in this thread even) that that they have worked in VA local politics for years at this point. This isn't new information if you've been posting in this thread or others like it. They didn't just drop into the thread to randomly poo poo on Lee Carter a couple of days ago, they have the posting history to prove that they are indeed connected to VA politics.
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Feb 22, 2021 02:20
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Neurolimal posted:So what happens if someone else anonymously states that they worked on Carter's campaign and he's actually very savvy and cool and the other anonymous poster is a sore butthead that was fired for improper behavior what the gently caress is this creepy threat to make up anonymous lies about people who've spoken about their real-life volunteering
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Feb 22, 2021 02:46
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Neurolimal posted:So what happens if someone else anonymously states that they worked on Carter's campaign and he's actually very savvy and cool and the other anonymous poster is a sore butthead that was fired for improper behavior what happens is you'd be permabanned for doxxing
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Feb 22, 2021 05:14
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This thread is vastly better when people have been comfortable posting about state politics that they have some insight or connection to and it should go without saying that anyone who fucks around with making people feel unsafe to post here because some rear end in a top hat might falsely accuse them of something should gently caress off, hopefully forever.
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Feb 22, 2021 05:16
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ANYWAY... Looks like it's really happening: "RICHMOND — A bill to abolish the death penalty in Virginia won final approval in the state Senate on Monday and will be sent to Gov. Ralph Northam (D), who is expected to sign it."
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Feb 22, 2021 18:52
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Presto posted:ANYWAY... Yeah, there has been a SERIOUS criminal justice reform push this session. Among others are expungement bills, eliminating suicide from the criminal code, making it LAW that "Trans Panic" is not an acceptable defense in court for harming a trans person, and there is a really good bill that requires courts to consider mental illness in all cases(in isn't considered unless you are pleading insanity iirc). These are just the few I am following closely. Criminal justice was the primary focus of this session because our Democratic Legislators are being leaned on heavily by BLM and other Civil Rights groups. Social pressure(not online twitter pressure) works wonders on the state/local level and moves mountains because again, we are not dealing with Mitch McConnells, we are dealing with Jimbob Dobson, used car salesman so just talking to people makes all the difference Edit: Also, I had no loving idea how EXPENSIVE it was to even have the death penalty. So a byproduct of this amazing progress is millions being freed up from the budget, this might sound like not a big deal, but in state budgets, money is really tight and its a balancing act so any breathing room you can get on that balance sheet is a good thing and can pay for programs. friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Feb 22, 2021 |
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Feb 22, 2021 18:58
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friendbot2000 posted:Yeah, there has been a SERIOUS criminal justice reform push this session. Among others are expungement bills, eliminating suicide from the criminal code, making it LAW that "Trans Panic" is not an acceptable defense in court for harming a trans person, and there is a really good bill that requires courts to consider mental illness in all cases(in isn't considered unless you are pleading insanity iirc). These are just the few I am following closely. Criminal justice was the primary focus of this session because our Democratic Legislators are being leaned on heavily by BLM and other Civil Rights groups. Social pressure(not online twitter pressure) works wonders on the state/local level and moves mountains because again, we are not dealing with Mitch McConnells, we are dealing with Jimbob Dobson, used car salesman so just talking to people makes all the difference Even better, they defeated the GOP amendment that would make capital murder have a mandatory minimum of life w/o parole. WaPo has an article on it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-death-penalty-ban/2021/02/22/742eed3e-7146-11eb-93be-c10813e358a2_story.html quote:The state Senate approved by a vote of 22-16 a House bill that bans executions and establishes a maximum punishment of life in prison without the possibility of parole. A judge would have discretion to suspend part of that sentence — a sticking point for some Republicans, who pushed unsuccessfully to make life without parole a mandatory minimum. A nice horrifying stat: quote:Since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976, Virginia has executed 113 people — more than any state but Texas. Oklahoma is a close third.
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Feb 22, 2021 19:10
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Sanguinia posted:The way that the two sides of this conversation seem to be "I am upset that Lee Carter made it so Right To Work Repeal is off the table for the entire year," and "I am pleased that Lee Carter gave me new and exciting reasons to hate Democrats," is certainly providing some interesting insight into the pulse of D&D's community. That doesn't seem to be a fair or accurate way to frame the conversation and could easily be flipped. Comes across more like you have your own axes to grind.
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Feb 22, 2021 19:26
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loving ROBBERY?
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Feb 22, 2021 19:27
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theflyingorc posted:loving ROBBERY? The point of the justice system as it pertains to black people was rarely, if ever, about justice
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Feb 22, 2021 20:02
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Virginia will be the only state of the former Confederacy to officially abolish the death penalty; North Carolina, Kentucky and Louisiana have suspended theirs while having Democratic governors but the statutes are still there.
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Feb 22, 2021 22:21
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This is probably a dumb question but how do these bills coming up now relate to the RTW one that died with Carter's stunt with regards for coming up to vote, if at all? Is the idea that he tried to force it to be that or nothing or something?
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Feb 22, 2021 22:27
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So, I'm really pissed about Connecticut right now. Prior to today, Connecticut was doing phased vaccinations: first healthcare workers, then people 75+, and recently started with people 65+. This was Phase 1b, and essential workers(teachers, grocery store workers, postal workers, etc.) and people with comorbidities(like comprimised immune systems) were supposed to be eligible to receive the vaccine by early next month. But today, Gov. Ned Lamont abruptly announced a total alteration to the state's policy: https://twitter.com/GovNedLamont/status/1363933954315751424 Basically, it's going to a completely age-based approach, and throwing people with comorbidities, disabilities, and non-teacher "essential workers" under the bus, in contravention of the CDC's recommendations. Here's an article about it, I'll quote some choice bits: https://ctmirror.org/2021/02/22/bre...ritized-by-age/ quote:“I’m going to focus on the old business motto, KISS: Keep it simple, stupid — because a lot of complications result from states that tried to finely slice the salami and it got very complicated to administer,” Lamont said. “The CDC said grocery and food service workers [get priority]. Then we started getting calls of, ‘I’m not in a grocery [store] but I’m in a convenience store and it’s a convenience store that serves … we have doughnuts, we have coffee, we have food.’ How about, ‘I’m a big box store, but I also have food; I think we should all be prioritized as well.’ … Those are the type of questions we had. And it was very difficult.” quote:The shift by the Lamont administration represents a significant break from the recommendations issued in December by the federal Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), the group that advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on who should receive priority in the vaccine rollout. The ACIP recommendations had prioritized grocery store employees, public transit staff, food and agricultural workers and others in Phase 1B of the rollout. quote:eople with underlying medical conditions outlined by the CDC were also next to receive the vaccine. Conditions included cancer, chronic kidney disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), Down syndrome, heart conditions (heart failure, coronary artery disease, cardiomyopathies), weakened immune system from solid organ transplant, obesity, severe obesity, pregnancy, sickle cell disease, smoking and Type 2 diabetes. I guess I shouldn't be surprised a multi-millionaire old white dude doesn't give a poo poo about workers or black people, but it still sucks. Sorry to interrupt Virginia Chat.
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Feb 23, 2021 02:46
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:connecticut stuff Oof. This feels less like "designing a vaccination plan is complicated and you cant please everybody" (which is true! public policy is hard even when there's not a pandemic but it's your job!) and more like "I have a bunch of rich connected white people between the ages of 45 and 65 who are really insistent that they get the vaccine before those dirty poors."
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Feb 23, 2021 03:01
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I'm an 'essential' worker in Connecticut. Guess I'm making some angry phone calls tomorrow afternoon.
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Feb 23, 2021 03:21
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friendbot2000 posted:making it LAW that "Trans Panic" is not an acceptable defense in court for harming a trans person uhhhh did a court actually allow this defense, or is this just a precaution to make sure it can't happen
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Feb 23, 2021 03:25
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Voyager I posted:I'm an 'essential' worker in Connecticut. Guess I'm making some angry phone calls tomorrow afternoon.
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Feb 23, 2021 04:15
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VitalSigns posted:uhhhh did a court actually allow this defense, or is this just a precaution to make sure it can't happen yes trans and gay panic have been used successfully as defenses Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Feb 23, 2021 |
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Feb 23, 2021 04:21
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Herstory Begins Now posted:yes trans and gay panic have been used successfully as defenses My question was more whether a specific case prompted it, or if it was more of a general "let's make sure this absolutely can't happen just in case"
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Feb 23, 2021 04:49
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No herstory flat out said it, it's been used before several times in many states.
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Feb 23, 2021 08:48
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