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GoT was ultimately a commercial endeavor orchestrated by two guys who viewed artistic integrity as something that interests film students and the sort of nerds that read a thousand page long books, sure they had some real artists on their payroll, among them GRRM himself who of course soured on the whole thing once he understood the real priorities of the whole project and understood that it was inevitable that this will tarnish the reputation of his own work, not to mention the designers and (some of) the actors who generally all tried to give it their best shot, D&D sought out functional writing, pages of script that can be easily understood months in advance so that the sets, customs and visual effects could be set in motion once the actors are ready to be flown around the globe for the shooting. It was also pretty obvious from the behind the scenes materials that these were the sort of things that occupied them, the sort of things they generally took pride in, they just really didn't care about all these things people are raging on, not a single gently caress given.
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Feb 22, 2021 10:21
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I think you're giving Benioff/Weiss way too much credit, frankly. I mean, I think they did a reasonably good job with (most) of the things you're talking about over the course of the first~3 seasons - and even then they made some pretty insane mistakes. Like for example, the first season was originally too short because Benioff and Weiss had written quite a few costly and over-budgeted battle scenes, such as spending a long time depicting the Battle of the Green Fork with the expectation that they'd be able to talk HBO into giving them the money for it when the time came. Which was a pretty loving stupid thing to assume after they'd totally hosed up their first attempt at the pilot, and there was no way that HBO was going to give those clowns even more money to film expensive battle scenes when they still hadn't proved any real success yet. So D&D ended up having to write an additional ~100 minutes of additional (largely original) dialogue scenes to pad out the show. This is where scenes like the tense scene between Robert and Cersei come from, or Tyrion, Shae and Bronn's drinking game before the battle. Some of these were legitimately great scenes, I thought - largely because I happen to like dialogue scenes devoid of action where characters are allowed to live and breathe without having to advance the plot. Sadly, based on comments from Benioff and Weiss it seemed what they took from that experience was that they didn't need to follow GRRM's plot precisely - or even at all - if they felt that it was "appropriate for the character".  But after those first 3.5 seasons, from all accounts they did a poor job managing the production. They stopped attending any of the night shoots after season 3, for example - shocker. The sheer number of abandoned plot threads and times it was clear the director had to cobble together episodes from pick-ups and re-shoots; the battle of the bastards being a good example, but there are more like the botched Dorne plotline in season 5 that D&D insisted be filmed at an historical Islamic palace and UNICEF site, in spite of insane restrictions that made the shoot rushed and logistically unfeasible. Ever wonder Jamie and Bronn infiltrate Sunspear in broad daylight? 
kaworu fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Feb 22, 2021 |
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Feb 22, 2021 12:43
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Are D&D up to anything at all? I’ve seen or heard nothing since their Star Wars deal was cancelled.
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Feb 22, 2021 14:31
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kaworu posted:Ever wonder Jamie and Bronn infiltrate Sunspear in broad daylight? Nope, because show Bronn and Jamie were just that dumb.
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Feb 22, 2021 16:19
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Evil Fluffy posted:Nope, because show Bronn and Jamie were just that dumb. I could actually sort of two handed Jaime doing it, not so certain about one handed book Jaime. Since the show has few to no consequences or character development for actions after a while I guess that follows
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Feb 22, 2021 17:15
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namelesstwo posted:Are D&D up to anything at all? They’re trying to adapt the Three Body Problem trilogy for Netflix, and... uh, I guess google it, because it’s kinda not going well for them so far.
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Feb 22, 2021 17:53
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nine-gear crow posted:They’re trying to adapt the Three Body Problem trilogy for Netflix, and... uh, I guess google it, because it’s kinda not going well for them so far.
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Feb 22, 2021 18:57
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nine-gear crow posted:They’re trying to adapt the Three Body Problem trilogy for Netflix, and... uh, I guess google it, because it’s kinda not going well for them so far. I hope they end up working on the Kingkiller adaptation because those guys and Rothfuss deserve each other.
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Feb 22, 2021 19:16
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kaworu posted:Ever wonder Jamie and Bronn infiltrate Sunspear in broad daylight? Bronn and Jaime in Dorn was by far one of the dumbest parts of the show. It made no sense and it accomplished nothing
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Feb 22, 2021 20:10
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ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: It made no sense and it accomplished nothing
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Feb 22, 2021 20:50
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If you change the thread title I swear to god...
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Feb 22, 2021 21:03
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The REALLY funny thing is that so far D&D have successfully directed a single Leslie Jones comedy special for Netflix, which was neither notable nor remarkable. That's all Netflix has gotten out of them, so far 
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Feb 22, 2021 21:12
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Martian posted:ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: It made no sense and it accomplished nothing nine-gear crow posted:George R R Martin’s A Waste of Time and Money
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Feb 22, 2021 23:01
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I don't know if there's any truth to this, but I was reading about possible reasons concerning why "The Long Night" prequel had gotten trashed after making it so far on development - which seems like a bit of a shame at first blush, because there's some real possibility for cool stories to be told about the original Night's King and/or the story of the *actual* person the Azor Ahai legends were based on, the fact that The Long Night also happened in Yi Ti and "The Five Forts" were built for essentially the same reason as the Wall... There's a lot to work with... One would think? Then I read this article about the direction the show was actually going in before it was canceled: quote:He was told by a reliable source that the show’s fix for racial diversity was to cast only black people to play the Children of the Forest. And since the Children are actually green and not human, as seen in the main series, their solution was to later reveal that “a magical curse” turned them into these beings. Holy poo poo - if true, that poo poo would have been about as horrifically offensive as the slavery fanfic that was Confederate. I have trouble wrapping my head around how stupid the idiots developing this show could have been, if even a fraction of that is true. I mean, my god! Might as well subtitle the show "HAM'S CURSE" or something, at that point. I mean, loving wow. The fact that no Asian/Latino/Arabic actors were cast is another glaring misstep I think, as it confirms they really were going to focus the story solely on Westeros and ignore that The Long Night was a planet-wide event, in the lore. kaworu fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Feb 23, 2021 |
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Feb 23, 2021 03:38
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Jesus gently caress how is it so hard for fuckwits to not be obscenely, blindingly racist when making a fantasy show?
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Feb 23, 2021 03:47
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mind the walrus posted:Jesus gently caress how is it so hard for fuckwits to not be obscenely, blindingly racist when making a fantasy show? Because they can’t do it for real and say what they mean?
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Feb 23, 2021 03:52
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kaworu posted:Wouldn't make much sense for Cersei to be the end boss in the books - people forget that she's portrayed as perpetually ignorant, self-deluded, vain, easy to manipulate, and downright incorrect in the vast majority of the assumptions she makes - at least based on her POV chapters and the way she's being played by just about every interested party. Yes, but were your expectations subverted?
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Feb 23, 2021 04:00
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He argued them up to 24 days, even though his own analysis indicated that he needed at least 42 days. In the end, they ran out of time and couldn't film the originally intended ending.
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latinotwink1997 posted:Yes, but were your expectations subverted? Ah so that’s why the battle of Winterfell had the artillery in front of the defensive lines.
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Feb 23, 2021 08:43
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kaworu posted:Then I read this article about the direction the show was actually going in before it was canceled:  I can only hope some exec heard about the plans for this and had the (not so) common sense to decide "yeah no scrap this completely what the gently caress you're all fired."
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Feb 23, 2021 15:54
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I want the pilot to be leaked so bad.
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Feb 23, 2021 20:56
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I want the pilot to be leaked so bad. Has the original pilot for Game of Thrones ever been released or is it sealed away in a vault somewhere?
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Feb 23, 2021 22:01
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It's late February, 2021. I haven't checked this thread in 16,000+ posts. Is the dang book out yet?
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Feb 23, 2021 23:42
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Many books bearing GRRM’s name have been released in the last several years, you’ll have to be more specific.
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Feb 23, 2021 23:57
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Which wildcards anthology are you inquiring about?
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Feb 24, 2021 01:14
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The Sex Cannon posted:It's late February, 2021. I haven't checked this thread in 16,000+ posts. Yes, and it was amazing.
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Feb 24, 2021 03:16
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TERFherder posted:I really was hoping for background on what was happening. Why was magic "coming back" into the world? Are there really gods? Do those gods fight other gods? Is it all just blood magic with everyone shaping what happens to pretend there are gods? I didn't want it spelled out, but I thought we would get more along those lines. Back before I realized how much Gurm was just tacking stuff on for lack of ability to think of a plot, I kinda liked that there were multiple mutually exclusive magic systems because it meant absolutely nobody knew how magic 'really' worked, and that's kind of a fun concept.
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Feb 25, 2021 16:40
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Is the next book out yet? Subvert my expectations, Bad Thread! Subvert them hard.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:10
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Liquid Communism posted:Back before I realized how much Gurm was just tacking stuff on for lack of ability to think of a plot, I kinda liked that there were multiple mutually exclusive magic systems because it meant absolutely nobody knew how magic 'really' worked, and that's kind of a fun concept. I lasted until about Book 4 before I realized that he just didn't have any real plan for the magic because "it's more mysterious" e.g: "easier in the moment." I remember losing my patience with the Children of the Forest, but only getting to outright "ok gently caress this" levels once the Maesters in Oldtown with the Glass Candle were there.
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Feb 25, 2021 23:48
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I honestly think that the TV series being such a bloated loving mess and being run by this guy who is legitimately both a far shittier human being than GRRM as well as being a worse writer, somehow, probably made him want to abandon the loving thing. Even the hardcore fans wanted to wash their hands of it for like 5 years while seasons 5 through 8 were going on - I did, at least. I don't see why GRRM would be much different. They've been taking some pretty obvious shots at each other for a while now, too - GRRM and Benioff/Weiss, I mean. Supposedly they got into a big fight sometime during pre-production of Season 5, which makes sense, and GRRM basically stormed out, saying they were untalented hacks who had lovely ideas - in so many words, I guess? Benioff/Weiss then put GRRM's angry speech into the mouth of the character of the writer in the mummer's troupe in Braavos, performing "The Bloody Hand" or whatever the story-within-the-story is called. I went back to look at the scene recently, and it plays as this utterly absurd 'meta' commentary wherein D&D are very obviously self-congratulating themselves for improving on GRRM's original product. It's pretty absurd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyMpUmd3HVc So yeah, that speech at the end? "You have ideas, I have ideas, he has ideas... Why should my ideas be any better? Simply because I've been doing this for my whole life. Who is anyone to judge my work? This is my profession, I know what I'm doing. You have NO right to an opinion!" That is supposedly what GRRM said word-for-word when he stormed out. I guess I can't totally blame them for taking the piss out of him, but this kind of explains why they seemed to lose progressively more and more respect as each season went by for the show's original continuity and GRRM's general ideas on where things should be going. Anyway, GRRM clapped them back with the following part of Blood and Fire wherein he discusses the semi-pornographic in-universe book titled A Caution for Young Girks which (though I did not see it at first) is a very obvious and clear effort to throw shade at D&D for being awful and corrupting his books: GRRM posted:The scribes responsible were most likely septons expelled from the Faith for drunkenness, theft, or fornication, failed students who left the Citadel without a chain, hired quills from the Free Cities, or mummers (the worst of all). Lacking the rigor of maesters, such scribes oft feel free to “improve” on the texts they are copying. (Mummers in particular are prone to this.) I think it's pretty clear who, and what, GRRM is really talking about, here
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Feb 25, 2021 23:59
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Didn’t he release Blood & Fire as Part 1 which means it’s another incomplete asoiaf title
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Feb 26, 2021 00:08
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I'd almost feel sympathy for B/W if they weren't such classic Hollywood sleaze in their own right. They earned every bit of shade and a fair bit more, and I say that as someone with no love for GRRM.
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Feb 26, 2021 00:13
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mind the walrus posted:I'd almost feel sympathy for B/W if they weren't such classic Hollywood sleaze in their own right. They earned every bit of shade and a fair bit more, and I say that as someone with no love for GRRM. They somehow found a way to be guiltlessly hateable, didn't they? And now that the cultural confirmation bias has set in, it's kind of indelible.
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Feb 26, 2021 00:54
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I find it funny how both GRRM and D&B lost interest in the story after the Red Wedding.
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Feb 26, 2021 01:16
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Liquid Communism posted:Back before I realized how much Gurm was just tacking stuff on for lack of ability to think of a plot, I kinda liked that there were multiple mutually exclusive magic systems because it meant absolutely nobody knew how magic 'really' worked, and that's kind of a fun concept. It's fun, I agree. And if that is the point, or how it works, that is cool.
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Feb 26, 2021 01:25
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ruddiger posted:Didn’t he release Blood & Fire as Part 1 which means it’s another incomplete asoiaf title Like he must be able to pump that poo poo out, and he still has to dorkily enjoy it in some way more than the "ruined" main series... it's classical history fanfiction with the names filed off and also dragons. Plus there's no expectation of consistency since it's "written by a Maester of Westeros!" "Then Bemperor of Bome, Bulian the Bapostate was like, uhh I'm calling my dragon."
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Feb 26, 2021 01:28
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I find it funny how both GRRM and D&B lost interest in the story after the Red Wedding.
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Feb 26, 2021 01:59
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kaworu posted:I honestly think that the TV series being such a bloated loving mess and being run by this guy who is legitimately both a far shittier human being than GRRM as well as being a worse writer, somehow, probably made him want to abandon the loving thing. Even the hardcore fans wanted to wash their hands of it for like 5 years while seasons 5 through 8 were going on - I did, at least. I don't see why GRRM would be much different. this is good to know
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Feb 26, 2021 13:07
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I've avoided watching the show until it got to season 7 after all those years of gurm drama, so for me it's always been a bit poo poo. But I was still disappointed in how it ended, considering it's the only ending we will ever get. D&D, I don't know much about them besides they managing to somehow retroactively flop an insanely popular franchise. But I try to keep in mind that they must have had some contribution to its initial insane success. So it's just disappointment on both sides.
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Feb 26, 2021 22:51
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Kellanved posted:I've avoided watching the show until it got to season 7 after all those years of gurm drama, so for me it's always been a bit poo poo. But I was still disappointed in how it ended, considering it's the only ending we will ever get. They met with GRRM for lunch to pitch the show to get him to agree to it and the one criteria he used to gauge whether they were a good fit to adapt his work was if they could answer the question of who was Jon Snow's mother (Lyanna Stark), and I might be wrong about this but I think it turned out after the fact that neither of them had even read the books and they scalped the answer off a fan message board as part of their sales pitch prep. So GRRM basically got conned by a pair of dipshit hucksters and only figured out all too late that they were hacks because he was too busy swimming in the dump trucks of money HBO was dropping at his front door on a daily basis.
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Feb 26, 2021 23:22
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I feel sorry for no one.
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Feb 26, 2021 23:29
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