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I don't think I ever understood why the writers were so fixated on evil medical experiments. They're unambiguously agreed to be The Most Evil poo poo Ever, so what's the point? There's no modern moral unease over whether the gains of MAD SCIENCE justify the cost. There's no anxiety in the modern psyche that your boss will feed you to a sandworm trying to make a superweapon. What is this supposed to appeal to in a modern audience? There's no ethical debate to actually have. And yet cereberus obviously aren't meant to be seen as irredemable, at least for ME2.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:08
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I love that the Cerberus operatives you run into in Andromeda were people too comically evil for Overlord and the only solutions to that quest are "Turn their evil experiment down to 7, leaving the test subjects wandering around aimlessly till they die" or "Use their evil experiment on the evil scientists instead, leaving the existing subjects to die" because the test subjects have already had their brains blasted out and replaced by wikipedia articles.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:11
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Soylent Pudding posted:Is it possible to do a ME2 suicide run where only Shepard survives? If so what happens in ME3 if literally no one is around. A part of me wants to do a maximum fuckup / fatality run to see what happens but another part of me things that would be way too bleak. No. There's a certain threshold, I believe, where if you lose too many squadmates on the suicide mission, Shepard will miss the final jump across the chasm to the Normandy and fall to their death (it's a very well disguised final pass/fail check). So then Joker calls the Illusive Man at the end of the game and goes "Yeah, everyone's dead and this is usually the part where Shepard tells you to gently caress off, but they're not here so... uh... gently caress off?" And then you can't import that save into ME3. There apparently IS a way to engineer things so that you end the trilogy with literally everyone dead, but it's a long game thing that you have to make key precision choices on in order to make sure people die in specific places in order to get Shep to survive into ME3 so you can finish off the ones you didn't get killed in 1 and 2. For example, any squadmates who aren't loyal in ME2 will die in their ME3 missions. Not doing Grissom Academy in 3 results in Jack getting captured by Cerberus and brainwashed into becoming a Phantom who you then fight and kill at Cerberus HQ, and so on. The optimal final party for the "everyone's dead" ending is Shepard, James, Liara and EDI being still alive as of Priority: Earth because they're the only ones you don't have a chance to get killed off at any other point. Go into Earth with a super low EMS using Liara and James for the run to the beam, Harbinger will kill them, and then pick Destroy, which kills both Shepard and EDI, AND causes massive collateral damage to boot thanks to the low EMS number magic.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:11
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Shepard dies if there aren't two squadmates still alive - closest you can get to no-survivors is probably Morinth and either Zaeed/Kasumi (barely in ME3) or Mordin/Legion (story-mandated deaths) full rundown: understudies: Wrex becomes Wreav, Mordin becomes Padok Wiks, Legion becomes Geth VI, Grunt becomes Urdnot Dagg everyone else: a different character steps in to cover the necessary plot points, if at all. Daro'Xen and Shala'Raan replace Tali on the dreadnought/Reaper base Rannoch missions. Oriana sends the signal in Sanctuary. Kirrahe fights off Kai Leng (and if he's dead, the salarian councillor bites it). Jacob's girlfriend/Samara's daughter/Jack's student do mission control for their missions. Garrus, Zaeed and Kasumi are just not present. you don't get replacement squadmates for Garrus and Tali
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Feb 23, 2021 22:16
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I still don't understand why they're omitting the multiplayer component. They need to update the environment assets anyway since they're the setting for some of the SP side missions, the netcode for the multiplayer still works and is P2P so they don't even need to maintain servers for it. If they're not including it the least they could do is add the MP-exclusive weapons and some of the powers to SP ME3. Let me have an Annihilation Field vanguard Shep!
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Feb 23, 2021 22:20
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I can only assume they're intending to sell the multiplayer as a standalone someday if they're going to release it at all. Or F2P with microtransactions.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:21
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What MP weapons are there that aren't already covered by DLC? I know the regar and Krysae are in the DLC.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:22
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Kurieg posted:What MP weapons are there that aren't already covered by DLC? I know the regar and Krysae are in the DLC. None of the collector weapons are in SP. You can cheat in the assault rifle but its sounds and animations are missing. The Geth Spitfire is in SP but only as a single-use pickup.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:24
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Bloody Pom posted:I still don't understand why they're omitting the multiplayer component. They need to update the environment assets anyway since they're the setting for some of the SP side missions, the netcode for the multiplayer still works and is P2P so they don't even need to maintain servers for it. probably because it would be another giant effort to fully upgrade the game to modern engine and poo poo. all the mass effects were on different versions of Unreal 3 and that took long enough going though all the data and poo poo. the MP had a whole other dev team working on it. i assume they will add the weapons to single player maybe.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:31
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Soylent Pudding posted:Is it possible to do a ME2 suicide run where only Shepard survives? If so what happens in ME3 if literally no one is around. A part of me wants to do a maximum fuckup / fatality run to see what happens but another part of me things that would be way too bleak. I think you need to have at least 2 crewmates survive for Shepard to live. A trilogy failshep run with the most deaths and worst quest outcomes is a great experience. Very cathartic. I wrote one up a few years ago in an old ME3 thread that I thought was the most optimum failshep. I've forgotten the details now but the basic strategy is to have anyone you romance die, have a bit of restraint in the suicide mission and save a few characters to die in ME3 (Tali, Wrex, Jack, Kasumi and Morinth) because their deaths or cameos in ME3 work better there and you have to have someone to kill in that game too. And Zaeed has to live.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:45
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Killing certain characters in ME3 holds a lot more weight than getting them killed in the suicide mission. You can engineer a situation with Mordin where he tries to call your bluff that you'll stop at nothing to prevent him from releasing the genophage cure, and you shoot him in the back for it.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:49
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Shep throwing their gun away in disgust after that is really good. I think they do it even if you don’t go through with it for some reason probably just didn’t want to animate something else, but it works way better if you do shoot him.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:56
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Hank Morgan posted:I think you need to have at least 2 crewmates survive for Shepard to live. Every other sonuvabitch on the Normandy bought it that day 
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Feb 23, 2021 23:16
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Wasn’t it possible to end ME2 with only a single survivor by leaving Zaeed’s mission until after the suicide mission? Or was it that the game accounted for that and didn’t let you leave him to burn if he was only 1 of 2?
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Feb 23, 2021 23:32
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You can't kill Zaeed in his loyalty mission if he's your only second squadmate option.
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Feb 23, 2021 23:44
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Lame but also not lame because it’s Zaeed.
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Feb 23, 2021 23:48
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Open Source Idiom posted:ME2 really drops the ball in a bunch of ways with Cerberus, but one thing I never really see discussed is the way someone like Shepard joining Cerberus acts to legitimise their views in the public conciousness. Shepard gives them good PR, and it's the kind of thing they could have used the series' reporter characters to discuss. Every post mission report in Mass Effect 2 is written by the Illusive man and many detail how Cerberus would take advantage of what happened in the mission.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:00
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Reminding myself of Mordin murder drove me to watch a video of it, and I felt guilty finishing it. It is truly dark.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:07
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SettingSun posted:Reminding myself of Mordin murder drove me to watch a video of it, and I felt guilty finishing it. It is truly dark. yeah there is alot of dark loving moments if you play as a renagade in 3. the wrex one is a gut punch.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:31
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I think killing Samara’s daughter after she commits suicide might be the darkest, because it’s literally “well she’s dead, can’t keep you alive though” while she’s begging you not to do it.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:37
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I think making it too easy to save everyone in ME2 worked to ME3's detriment because 95% of the most interesting permutations are bound up in these scenarios most players will never witness.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:39
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exquisite tea posted:I think making it too easy to save everyone in ME2 worked to ME3's detriment because 95% of the most interesting permutations are bound up in these scenarios most players will never witness. Wreav makes the Tuchanka plot far more fraught and is an interesting character in that he's not so much "replacement for Wrex" as "bad timeline alternative to Wrex". You spend a lot of time with him and it's constantly hammered home to you that he's a war-mongering jackass who has malicious intentions and doesn't get along with anybody.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:47
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exquisite tea posted:I think making it too easy to save everyone in ME2 worked to ME3's detriment because 95% of the most interesting permutations are bound up in these scenarios most players will never witness. yeah. i like how alot of the renegade options and being a dumb rear end can lead to hosed up depressing poo poo in 3. also apparently like 65% of players never saw wrex in 3.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:54
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exquisite tea posted:I think making it too easy to save everyone in ME2 worked to ME3's detriment because 95% of the most interesting permutations are bound up in these scenarios most players will never witness. Not being able to create a save with those flagged was bad design for something with so many possible permutations. They finally figured it out by the time DA:I came around with DA Keep which actually encouraged me to play it more then once with wildly different world states. The whole idea of a continuous narrative across 3 games tracking the player from the very beginning was wildly ambitious but the success of the entire thing seems to be more that people loved ME2 enough to buy it without buying the previous title. Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah. i like how alot of the renegade options and being a dumb rear end can lead to hosed up depressing poo poo in 3. It was weird they let you pick Ashley/Kaiden, Council saved/sacrificed in the ME2 intro but not saving one of your party members. It wasn't even a tough choice to pull off in context anyways.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:55
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Android Blues posted:Wreav makes the Tuchanka plot far more fraught and is an interesting character in that he's not so much "replacement for Wrex" as "bad timeline alternative to Wrex". You spend a lot of time with him and it's constantly hammered home to you that he's a war-mongering jackass who has malicious intentions and doesn't get along with anybody. yeah. thats one of the fun things about the "renagadeverse" version of mass effect. by the end its a much shittier place and even if you beat the reapers, everyone is either at each others throats or dead. in paragon land, the galaxy is on its way to a new era of mostly peaceful co-operation. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 00:56
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Wrex's tortured scream as he hunts you down on the Citadel after he figures out that you've sabotaged the genophage and having to put him down was enough to ensure I never made those particular choice combinations ever again. Like, gently caress, god drat, give Wrex's VA an award for that.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:59
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Doctor Nutt posted:Wrex's tortured scream as he hunts you down on the Citadel after he figures out that you've sabotaged the genophage and having to put him down was enough to ensure I never made those particular choice combinations ever again. Like, gently caress, god drat, give Wrex's VA an award for that. The sheer amount of flags required to get that must've meant that less then a single digit % of players saw that in their own playthrough. Like, iirc that is very specific choices from ME1, ME2, and ME3 combined required to pull that off.
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Feb 24, 2021 01:02
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Doctor Nutt posted:Wrex's tortured scream as he hunts you down on the Citadel after he figures out that you've sabotaged the genophage and having to put him down was enough to ensure I never made those particular choice combinations ever again. Like, gently caress, god drat, give Wrex's VA an award for that. he also talks about his unborn son is when he first figured it out if you pick the right lines. so yeah. good times for wrex. https://youtu.be/97FAUYTIMLk?t=96
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Feb 24, 2021 01:02
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In order to get that scenario you simply have to save Wrex on Virmire and sabotage the genophage cure. He will always figure it out, there's no escaping killing him if you side with the Salarian Dalatrass. You can't get Mordin/Padok to sabotage it themselves if Wrex is alive, you'll have to shoot them. Keeping Mordin alive is the single most difficult outcome to achieve in Tuchanka. Wrex has to be dead or never recruited, Eve has to be dead, and Mordin must have survived the events of ME2.
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Feb 24, 2021 01:08
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pentyne posted:The sheer amount of flags required to get that must've meant that less then a single digit % of players saw that in their own playthrough. ME3 had its issues but the level of reactivity to your choices was genuinely bonkers. Stuff like being able to kill the Virmire survivor on the Citadel, Mordin surviving but only in extremely niche circumstances, the fate of Captain Kirrahe in ME1 actually being a tracked flag, etc.
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Feb 24, 2021 01:08
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It's important to have events that few players will see because allowing the players to make the choice that will lead to those events not happening is important in and of itself for roleplaying purposes
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Feb 24, 2021 01:11
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Pattonesque posted:It's important to have events that few players will see because allowing the players to make the choice that will lead to those events not happening is important in and of itself for roleplaying purposes Yes but it's a little too easy to opt out of the most interesting events of ME3 because you were a goody two-shoes and saved everybody with no compromises. Because saving everybody usually just comes down to "did you do all the missions" and who would willingly choose to not play more ME2.
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Feb 24, 2021 01:13
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exquisite tea posted:Yes but it's a little too easy to opt out of the most interesting events of ME3 because you were a goody two-shoes and saved everybody with no compromises. Because saving everybody usually just comes down to "did you do all the missions" and who would willingly choose to not play more ME2. yeah but i like being a goody two-shoes with a renegade streak.
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Feb 24, 2021 01:21
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I was able to come up with two everyone's dead scenarios. One where Shep is a sociopath and betrays most everyone (Earthborn/Ruthless), one where they are incompetent and people die because they can't make the hard decisions (Colonist/Sole Survivor) EDIT: I'm still waiting to start the incompetent run, it's going to harder than the sociopath run Tali is going to kill herself 
Outpost22 fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 02:25
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Best Friends posted:I was v annoyed that you couldn't gently caress over Cerberus or even express much displeasure of them until the end of 2, when roughly 90% of exploration side missions in 1 featured Cerberus doing Josef mengele stuff around the galaxy That was like 2 missions.
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Feb 24, 2021 02:37
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Doctor Nutt posted:Wrex's tortured scream as he hunts you down on the Citadel after he figures out that you've sabotaged the genophage and having to put him down was enough to ensure I never made those particular choice combinations ever again. Like, gently caress, god drat, give Wrex's VA an award for that. The way Shepard acts when all Renegade choices are taken on that path is the most despicable thing you can do in the game, much worse than killing Mordin
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Feb 24, 2021 02:37
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Holy poo poo exquisite tea posted:In order to get that scenario you simply have to save Wrex on Virmire and sabotage the genophage cure. He will always figure it out, there's no escaping killing him if you side with the Salarian Dalatrass. You can't get Mordin/Padok to sabotage it themselves if Wrex is alive, you'll have to shoot them. Keeping Mordin alive is the single most difficult outcome to achieve in Tuchanka. Wrex has to be dead or never recruited, Eve has to be dead, and Mordin must have survived the events of ME2. holy poo poo
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Feb 24, 2021 04:26
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exquisite tea posted:No, at least two squadmates have to survive the suicide mission in order for Shepard to survive. e: not technically a zero survivor mission, but you can pick someone you have the option to kill off in 3 like Jack or Miranda. SubponticatePoster fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 04:41
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Want to bone a hanar
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Feb 24, 2021 04:42
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SubponticatePoster posted:Yes, but if you put off doing Zaeed's loyalty mission, the angry bastard can hold the line by himself. Then do it post-game and take the option to kill him, bring 1 loyal person with you to the terminator fight and you're good. Someone just said that if Zaeed is one of the two remaining then you just can’t kill him on the mission. Not going to check that myself though!
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Feb 24, 2021 04:47
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