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The WM9 match is decent enough, Bret adapted well and looked good until the finish. Yokozuna gets gassed quickly but it's Yokozuna, what are you gonna do. I'm also not a fan of the cage match with Owen, I think it's aged very poorly. The story beats all seemed to be way off, which is weird because Bret and Owen were both usually excellent at incorporating them into their (obviously very good) actual wrestling. Their match at WM10 a few months earlier is still very good though, and in many ways has aged better than the Shawn-Razor ladder match. I can understand Bret not thinking much of his WM11 match with Backlund. Their title match at Survivor Series 94 goes on for a bit too long and specifically involves Helen Hart, who is a terrible actor, but otherwise it was exciting and pretty much everyone else involved played their parts to the hilt. The WM match was killed by a few things: Backlund having his heat taken away by losing the title mere days after winning it, Bret unceremoniously being taken out of the title picture in favour of Shawn, (oddly) neither Bret nor Backlund seeming to know how to work an I Quit match, Piper hamming it up and just seemingly deciding on the spur of the moment to play it for laughs, the bizarre non-finish where Backlund doesn't even say "I quit"...
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Feb 23, 2021 18:35
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I can admit, the part where Bret had Backlund in a hold, Piper asks Backund four or five times if he gives up, thinks it over and asks Bret if he gives up was pretty funny
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Feb 23, 2021 18:47
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Both of the Bret/Backlund PPV matches are bad. Bret laying in the chickenwing for an hour is very funny.
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Feb 23, 2021 18:59
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MassRafTer posted:Both of the Bret/Backlund PPV matches are bad. Bret laying in the chickenwing for an hour is very funny. I like the Survivor Series one, but the last half of the "match" is Bret just locked in the hold, so... On the other hand, the Bret/Bob match where Backlund freaks out is good. My only gripe with face Bob is he did the WHOA WHOA WHOA thing when selling, which made no sense as a face, but worked wonderfully as a heel.
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Feb 23, 2021 19:12
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I remember liking the Backlund match at Survivor Series, but I imagine it won't hold up well. I still maintain that should have been Owen in the match, taking the belt off of Bret, and then bringing the feud full circle at WM11, with Royal Rumble winner Bret taking on Owen on the anniversary of their WMX match.
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Feb 23, 2021 19:28
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Vagabundo posted:I remember liking the Backlund match at Survivor Series, but I imagine it won't hold up well.
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Feb 23, 2021 19:32
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backlund screaming that he feels like god was some good poo poo
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Feb 23, 2021 19:38
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Royal Updog posted:backlund screaming that he feels like god was some good poo poo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVEyE9F-fGQ Hell yeah
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Feb 23, 2021 19:42
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Vagabundo posted:I remember liking the Backlund match at Survivor Series, but I imagine it won't hold up well. I put the towel match on in the background, and it struck me how much I like the setup. Bob the heel is trapped in a hold and screams for Owen to throw in the towel; Owen refuses, because he wants Bret to lose, so Bob has to suck it up and figure a way out. Owen was never going to throw in the towel; the only way this match could have ended was shenanigans or Bret asking Davey for the towel (with the latter impossible). It's like putting a fully costumed Kane in a first blood match; the losing face (Bret or Austin in the Kane match) doesn't lose much because the heel had all the odds in their favor.
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Feb 23, 2021 20:43
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I always wondered how it would affect an I Quit match if someone was unresponsive. Has anyone ever done a spot where someone passes out so they can't quit verbally and then they have to wake them up to say it?
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Feb 23, 2021 21:06
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sticklefifer posted:I always wondered how it would affect an I Quit match if someone was unresponsive. Has anyone ever done a spot where someone passes out so they can't quit verbally and then they have to wake them up to say it? Bret vs Austin at WrestleMania 13 was a submission match that ended after Austin passed out.
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Feb 23, 2021 21:13
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Yeah, I'm referring specifically to I Quit, or matches where there's a mic or a verbal confirmation involved in the decision. Now I'm also being reminded of how annoying it was when WWE dumbed down the stipulation to have the referee ask on the mic every 2 minutes.
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Feb 23, 2021 21:21
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Was Mankind supposed to be unconscious when whoever played the recording of him saying “I quit! I quit!” as the finish to screw him out of the title?
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Feb 23, 2021 21:27
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Was Mankind supposed to be unconscious when whoever played the recording of him saying “I quit! I quit!” as the finish to screw him out of the title? Yeah. Honestly, Mick might have been actually completely out, or certainly close to it. Rock was really nasty with the chairs hits, and he also hit him a LOT
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Feb 23, 2021 21:39
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Red posted:I put the towel match on in the background, and it struck me how much I like the setup. Bob the heel is trapped in a hold and screams for Owen to throw in the towel; Owen refuses, because he wants Bret to lose, so Bob has to suck it up and figure a way out. Owen was never going to throw in the towel; the only way this match could have ended was shenanigans or Bret asking Davey for the towel (with the latter impossible). It's like putting a fully costumed Kane in a first blood match; the losing face (Bret or Austin in the Kane match) doesn't lose much because the heel had all the odds in their favor. Makes me think of this match at MSG I saw back in 92 where it was face mid-carder Bret Hart vs. invincible heel Undertaker. I was watching the match as a kid, wondering what was going to happen if Undertaker ended up in the Sharpshooter. His whole deal was that he didn't sell, but you didn't see heels power out of submission finishers back then, ESPECIALLY something as protected as the Sharpshooter. So was he going to submit? Escape the hold? Even uncharacteristically show signs of struggle? Late in the match, Bret locked on the Sharpshooter. Undertaker just went completely limp rather than react to the move in any way. Paul Bearer eventually got on the apron, Bret dropped the hold to confront him and Undertaker was able to just stand up and go for the Tombstone.
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Feb 23, 2021 22:19
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Was Mankind supposed to be unconscious when whoever played the recording of him saying “I quit! I quit!” as the finish to screw him out of the title? Mick was probably shoot unconscious by that point
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Feb 23, 2021 23:26
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If you want to see what Bret Hart and Yokozuna could do together, check out their cage matches. There's a Coliseum Video match and some handhelds, too.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:43
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Oh, I know he was probably legitimately out at that point, but I feel like they already had him being kayfabe unconscious and the screwjob as the plan anyway. So I was asking if that was an example of an I Quit match ending differently.
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Feb 24, 2021 00:49
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That handcuff chair shot spot was probably worse for Mick than all of the HiaC match. Him and Rock both should have known better, regardless of what was planned out and what was ad-libbed.
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Feb 24, 2021 01:15
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Admiral Joeslop posted:That handcuff chair shot spot was probably worse for Mick than all of the HiaC match. Him and Rock both should have known better, regardless of what was planned out and what was ad-libbed. the rock loved two things in 1998 and 1999 calling people "retards" and hitting people as hard as he possibly could in the head with chairs
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Feb 24, 2021 02:32
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davidbix posted:If you want to see what Bret Hart and Yokozuna could do together, check out their cage matches. There's a Coliseum Video match and some handhelds, too. I'm suddenly reminded of the dumbass Steve Austin vs. Yokozuna match in the mid-90s. The top turnbuckle was rigged to come off when Yokozuna grabbed it (so he could fall on his back and get pinned). Prior to that, Austin did the "bounce off the ropes and try to knock the big guy down" bit that's in every giant match, except he wouldn't bounce off the ropes, because he didn't want to prematurely set off the gimmicked turnbuckle. He'd run toward the ropes, stop, then run at Yokozuna. He looked like a kid at recess playing wrestling in a chalked square on the ground. 
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Feb 24, 2021 02:36
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That was from the pre-show of Sumner Slam 1996, I believe.
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Feb 24, 2021 02:49
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Rusty Shackelford posted:That was from the pre-show of Sumner Slam 1996, I believe. The “Free-For-All”, which I think was shown on the TV guide channel.
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Feb 24, 2021 03:07
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The first Sumner Slam took place on May 22, 1856
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Feb 24, 2021 03:15
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Of note is that that was the immediate PPV follow-up to Austin 3:16. (edit: actually he beat Marc Mero at the previous In Your House, lol) Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Feb 24, 2021 |
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Feb 24, 2021 04:53
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jesus WEP posted:How does that get Shawn Michaels and Diesel over though? gently caress 'em, that's how.
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Feb 24, 2021 04:55
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Of note is that that was the immediate PPV follow-up to Austin 3:16. It’s always been a fun part of WWE rewritten history to claim Austin was immediately turned into a red hot superstar after he said whatever he said then I forget, but it took at the least a few weeks before they were like ‘okay we’ll push you I GUESS.’
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Feb 24, 2021 05:16
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Dawgstar posted:It’s always been a fun part of WWE rewritten history to claim Austin was immediately turned into a red hot superstar after he said whatever he said then I forget, but it took at the least a few weeks before they were like ‘okay we’ll push you I GUESS.’ He said the Austin 3:16 bit when he won King of the Ring, so he was clearly going to get a push. But yeah, it would make sense that they didn't really know what they had on their hands until the shirts started selling.
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Feb 24, 2021 05:55
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The Hart feud starting was what got him really over as they allowed him to do interviews but WWE really doesn't want to admit that or that the Canada/US feud the year later put them in black for SOME REASON
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Feb 24, 2021 06:21
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Rusty Shackelford posted:That was from the pre-show of Sumner Slam 1996, I believe. Sumner Slam is where Sting debuted.
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Feb 24, 2021 06:43
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Sting is best known for his signature catchphrase "Jiminy Christmas!!"
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Feb 24, 2021 07:10
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Nick Jr. Face posted:Real Estate Steve is best known for "kayfabing" whether or not a plot lies on a floodplain.
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Feb 24, 2021 07:15
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Can someone give me a rundown on Jigsaw? He seemed like a big-ish deal in Chikara and other indies and then unmasked in ROH and tanked his whole career? How so? And what’s he doing these days? Edit: inspired by this post:
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Feb 24, 2021 19:06
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Can someone give me a rundown on Jigsaw? He seemed like a big-ish deal in Chikara and other indies and then unmasked in ROH and tanked his whole career? How so? And what’s he doing these days? Jigsaw was an upper-midcard guy in early Chikara, getting over due to feuds with Larry Sweeney and Icarus. He's solid in the ring, though nothing mind-blowing. No mic skills whatsoever, but he at least had a unique indie wrestler look that worked for him as "trashbag pants Deadpool." He was a good generic face for Chikara and was treated as Quack's prize pupil, even getting to be part of the inaugural King of Trios winning team (Quack/Jigsaw/Shane Storm). In 2007, he was building towards a heel turn in Chikara, but then just stopped being featured. He joined ROH and there's an infamous bit where one guy was talking about how the red and black mask wasn't his true face and kept yelling "TRANSFORM!" until he finally removed the mask. The mask wasn't a great look for ROH, but without a mask on, Jigsaw looks like just some guy and it did not get him over at all. Even Chikara was making fun of it by having Shane Storm do the "TRANSFORM!" segment and remove his mask to reveal a different, more heelish one underneath. Jigsaw came back to Chikara in 2008 with the story being that Quack was angry about him leaving and unmasking, but Jigsaw started wearing the mask again and he went back to being one of the company's faces. One of Chikara's creative flaws at the time was that they could get a face over with a good storyline, but a lot of it was the charismatic heel doing the heavy lifting. That left rather boring faces in the aftermath, especially if they didn't have comedy to fall back on. A handful of these types became a stable called the Future is Now with Jigsaw leading Helios (Ricochet), Lince Dorado and Equinox II (Jimmy Olsen). Despite being a talented group, the crowd didn't care for them too much due to being a bunch of generic faces with none of them capable of cutting a good promo. He remained with the company and even won the tag titles with Quack to finish off the main BDK storyline. He was part of the 12 Large Summit round robin tournament to crown the first ever Grand Champion, which mainly just kept him in the background, since he wasn't a viable winner. Around this time, he took part in Dragon Gate USA (which I know nothing about) and had a very minor run in TNA as Rubix. When Chikara did the Gekido invasion storyline ("Evil Chikara" basically), they introduced John Silver as Shard, an evil counterpart to Jigsaw. Although they were building towards a Quack heel turn, plans inexplicably changed due to the then-upcoming Ashes storyline and Jigsaw turned heel instead. He and Shard won the tag titles as Chikara went on hiatus and lost them immediately when Chikara came back. He was written out at that year's King of Trios. After that, he just did random indie shows here and there. He came back to Chikara a couple times, but it was never anything huge. He was last seen in Chikara, helping out during the Crucible storyline, but stopped wrestling as of the pandemic. He's still active on Twitter at least.
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Feb 24, 2021 20:15
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lol vulture squad
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Feb 24, 2021 20:20
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I always wondered why Mitch Ryder (one of the aforementioned charismatic heels) stopped working for Chikara but given Chikara's... everything coming out I may not like the answers.
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Feb 25, 2021 02:00
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Dawgstar posted:I always wondered why Mitch Ryder (one of the aforementioned charismatic heels) stopped working for Chikara but given Chikara's... everything coming out I may not like the answers. Quack insulted him in one of his post show emails to the roster.
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Feb 25, 2021 02:02
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MassRafTer posted:Quack insulted him in one of his post show emails to the roster. Specifically his gear, which is funny since Quack's gear is terrible
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Feb 25, 2021 02:11
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Specifically his gear, which is funny since Quack's gear is terrible I didn't realize Quack had been quite that catty in his emails, comfortable ensconced in his pleather pants as he was.
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Feb 25, 2021 02:37
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Good that you're wearing trash-bag pants because YOU'RE GARBAGE 
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Feb 25, 2021 12:50
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