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Flayer posted:Starmer is indistinguishable from a Lib Dem. It's certainly a bold strategy to mimic the party with 12 seats. That's unfair, the Lib Dems at least tend to be alright on civil liberties and voted against the spy cops bill.
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Feb 26, 2021 11:13
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Flayer posted:Starmer is indistinguishable from a Lib Dem. They can support what they like with 12 seats, but don't compare them to kieth. e: ^^ 
Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 11:13
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Giving money to the Labour Party is an explicitly immoral and damaging act at this point.
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Feb 26, 2021 11:19
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Socially authoritarian fiscally libertarian labour is back on the menu! Pistol_Pete posted:What do you think's going on at the top levels of Labour, with all these dogshit, inconsistent stances they're coming out with? If there were a bunch of big egos clashing in the shadow cabinet, pushing their own interests and leaking stuff to the press, I could understand it. But the cabinet is almost completely anonymous, so I'm confused about what's fuelling it. If Starmer actually was making all the decisions himself, you'd expect a bit more consistency; I can't see where the conflict's coming from. My theory is that most of the members of the labour right have their own big dossier of ideas of how to make the next Blair that they've been sitting on for 15 years. Once kier came along and was like "show me what you got then?" 100 MPs all tried to pull their ideas out at the same time but got jammed in the doorway to his office so there's a blob of right wingers fighting eachother and shouting things like "more war" and "means tested brain microchips to read prole thoughts"
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Feb 26, 2021 11:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmBj8r1-fDo
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Feb 26, 2021 11:35
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crispix posted:what do yous think keir's election tune will be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yODLkaF8F-Y To be played on BBC Election Night when Jeremy Vine's graphical simulation of the race to No. 10 shows the Starmer avatar taking a single step forward before falling on its face and setting on fire Convex fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 11:38
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forkboy84 posted:Giving money to the Labour Party is an explicitly immoral and damaging act at this point. Oh gently caress off. The amount of money I give the party won't buy a single shiny poster but does buy me a vote in leadership and candidate elections which are currently the only available way of fighting the melts. We've had this argument a dozen times so there is no use having it again, but that also means not making lovely snipes at each other like yours above.
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Feb 26, 2021 11:41
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People are allowed to pay the wallet inspector if they so wish imo
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Feb 26, 2021 11:43
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Communist Thoughts posted:People are allowed to pay the wallet inspector if they so wish imo I keep my wallet in my pants. Investigate at your peril
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Feb 26, 2021 11:53
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Communist Thoughts posted:People are allowed to pay the wallet inspector if they so wish imo People are allowed to do immoral and damaging things, yes. Oh dear me posted:Oh gently caress off. The amount of money I give the party won't buy a single shiny poster but does buy me a vote in leadership and candidate elections which are currently the only available way of fighting the melts. We've had this argument a dozen times so there is no use having it again, but that also means not making lovely snipes at each other like yours above. I was less thinking about individual members like yourself in this case and more about left people who are elected officials and staying in Labour, who are heading towards an unjustifiable position of tacitly supporting this shambles. Sorry this annoys you but I don't see me stopping harping on this. It is increasingly, day by day, harder and harder to see how it is possible to tolerate a Labour Party intent on outflanking Boris loving Johnson on the right. To call it moribund from a socialist perspective is an understatement. I'm at a point where I am struggling to justify regarding Labour members as comrades because they seem more interested in a political party unfit for purpose than in the working class. Sorry.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:03
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Oh dear me posted:Oh gently caress off. The amount of money I give the party won't buy a single shiny poster but does buy me a vote in leadership and candidate elections which are currently the only available way of fighting the melts. We've had this argument a dozen times so there is no use having it again, but that also means not making lovely snipes at each other like yours above. How do you square this with the Liverpool mayoral fiasco, where Labour are one step removed from just outright saying that leftists don't get to be candidates? Genuine question.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:06
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They keep sending out "you appear to have not paid, please fill out this form to tell us why" emails despite me doing it twice but like the list of reasons keeps getting longer so, yaknow. I presume it's like some kind of TV Licensing type deal. I do wonder how badtheir numbers really are though if theyre still counting people who have left
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Feb 26, 2021 12:10
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I know the idea is to stay and keep voting for leftists and hope they outnumber the rightwing again, but the one thing I have always wondered is 'do we have time?' Are there any neat loopholes like the one that got Corbyn into the leadership because no doubt the right do not want that and they have been booting out leftists or silencing them and then booting them out or sabotaging them like in 2017. I just wonder how much time we have to wait to slowly build back up in the party but hide ourselves while things are getting worse for the country and for the most vulnerable.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:15
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big scary monsters posted:"Anthony Blair" is an anagram of "banality horn", makes you think. It was pointed out at the time that "Tony Blair MP" is an anagram of "I'm Tory Plan B".
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Feb 26, 2021 12:16
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Is meaningful change through electoral politics even a plausible outcome at this point? brb, someone just knocked at the door, hope it's not one of those spycops
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Feb 26, 2021 12:23
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VideoGames posted:I know the idea is to stay and keep voting for leftists and hope they outnumber the rightwing again, but the one thing I have always wondered is 'do we have time?' I think OMOV is still in place for leadership elections, so if Keith gets decommissioned before he and Evans can replace it with "Corporate donors get as many votes as they want, members get a little Union Flag to wave", there's always a chance of getting a left-wing MP back into the leadership. The issue is that unless that person is willing to gut the party of the middle-class Tory voters who seem to make up head office, and crack the whip on the melts and cunts in the PLP, they won't get much done.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:31
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:How do you square this with the Liverpool mayoral fiasco, where Labour are one step removed from just outright saying that leftists don't get to be candidates? Genuine question. This may be the final straw for me resigning my membership. Not only was it undemocratic and vindictive, but it was sloppily done too. Starmer doesn't oppose, he doesn't develop any decent new policies, and seems to spend more time fighting the left (totally unnecessarily, vindictively and counter-productively) than opposing the Tories. What a loving waste of space.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:35
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Guavanaut posted:I'm sure something like the slinky dog existed before toy story too, that was the main one that I can remember existing other than the green army guys. EDIT, also lol from Wikipedia page on those monkeys: quote:The 1995 film 12 Monkeys and 2015 TV series' time travel stories borrow Barrel of Monkeys' imagery and name. Thematically, the challenge of linking a chain of toy monkeys echoes the chains of causality driving the storylines. Ewan fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 12:40
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kingturnip posted:I think OMOV is still in place for leadership elections, so if Keith gets decommissioned before he and Evans can replace it with "Corporate donors get as many votes as they want, members get a little Union Flag to wave", there's always a chance of getting a left-wing MP back into the leadership. If after what happened to Corbyn a left wing Labour leader is not willing to go full Stalin on the Labour right, they're not worth putting in the position to begin with. The right have proven now that they're not people who differ in their opinion on how Labour should be managed; they're just Tories who didn't go to the right school.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:41
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QINE
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Feb 26, 2021 12:41
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Ah yes teachers and doctors those very similar professions involving sick people https://twitter.com/mcash/status/1364938061105225728?s=19
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Feb 26, 2021 12:48
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Have I got this right? Gov has trailed that it will hike corporation tax as part of a way to get money back into the Treasury / economic recovery. Presumably this is a UKMT-approved good thing to do. And now, of all issues, labour have chosen this as one to oppose the government on?
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Feb 26, 2021 12:49
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:How do you square this with the Liverpool mayoral fiasco, where Labour are one step removed from just outright saying that leftists don't get to be candidates? Genuine question. By remembering I don't live in Liverpool. The left has a narrow lead in my constituency and I'm staying while I can help keep it, and so keep our best candidacies and conference votes from going to melts. When we've lost our ability to do that I'll leave, no problem. I just don't believe in handing victory to the right on a plate.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:54
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Ewan posted:Have I got this right? Yep. It's amazing. They don't seem to grasp that by increasing the tax take the government can stimulate the recovery rather than just passively hoping it happens.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:55
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Ewan posted:Have I got this right? I'm guessing it's some dumb strategy so they can use it as a "pro-business" bullet point in their promotional material.
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Feb 26, 2021 12:56
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Oh dear me posted:By remembering I don't live in Liverpool. The left has a narrow lead in my constituency and I'm staying while I can help keep it, and so keep our best candidacies and conference votes from going to melts. When we've lost our ability to do that I'll leave, no problem. I just don't believe in handing victory to the right on a plate. Out of interest, who did you vote for in the 2020 leadership election?
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Feb 26, 2021 12:58
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Oh dear me posted:By remembering I don't live in Liverpool. The left has a narrow lead in my constituency and I'm staying while I can help keep it, and so keep our best candidacies and conference votes from going to melts. When we've lost our ability to do that I'll leave, no problem. I just don't believe in handing victory to the right on a plate. Have you learned nothing from the last five years? The left will never ‘win the argument’ with the Labour right because they will not be ALLOWED to.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:02
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forkboy84 posted:Out of interest, who did you vote for in the 2020 leadership election? Oh for heaven's sake. Someone still in the Labour party right now is not necessarily some raging Starmerite, back it down a little with the performative leftier-than-thou poo poo.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:05
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The thing about the corporation tax debacle is it mostly suggests the leadership are just completely flailing. I doubt any of them give a gently caress about the corporation tax rate and what effects raising it or lowering it would have. But they have absolutely no beliefs - no vision for who they want to be or what the public want them to do, so they're just diving in at random on every issue and hoping something works.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:05
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Ewan posted:I had the red monkeys you could chain together as a kid, long before toy story. Aren't those toy monkeys on the poster for 12 Monkeys?
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Feb 26, 2021 13:06
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forkboy84 posted:Out of interest, who did you vote for in the 2020 leadership election? RLB of course. Noxville posted:Have you learned nothing from the last five years? The left will never ‘win the argument’ with the Labour right because they will not be ALLOWED to. We won in 2015 and 2017 and if Corbyn hadn't resigned before democratizing the party we might have done more. If Starmer has a heart attack tomorrow we could win again. When they've changed the rules so we can't, I'll leave. But I will not help them by giving up before the battle is actually over.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:11
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peanut- posted:The thing about the corporation tax debacle is it mostly suggests the leadership are just completely flailing. Yeah, like I said earlier, the impression is of improvisation and drift. Some in this thread are maintaining that there is a definite project going on, whether it's to decisively eliminate the left, reposition the party as pro-business etc but I don't buy that. I've seen instances of political projects being confidently and decisively pushed forward: New Labour in the late 90's or the Vote Leave campaign in the run up to 2016 and Starmer's Labour doesn't feel anything like that. It feels more like they're cargo-culting aspects of previous successful political projects, it's just that in this case, there's no actual project underneath it all.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:15
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I am still in Labour mainly because it looks like Starmer is going to fail quite hard and people need to be there to attempt to pick up the pieces, and because I haven't seen any sign from the extra parliamentary left that there is a viable strategy or consensus about what to do outside of Labour. It seems the argument boils down to: - Leave Labour - ??? - Revolution I'm in the "you have to try everything" camp because it's very hard to predict where change will come from, so while I don't begrudge people leaving Labour to pursue other avenues it's not exactly helpful to harangue leftists for staying in the party (until we get electoral reform).
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Feb 26, 2021 13:16
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Necrothatcher posted:Aren't those toy monkeys on the poster for 12 Monkeys?
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Feb 26, 2021 13:16
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I quit in visceral disgust a while back, I think it was when RLB got sacked. But I also joined again because comrade fakename wanted people to vote for the NEC, still not sure that achieved anything but whatever. Given that dissatisfaction with starmer seems to be rising I am waiting to see what comes of it, if it gets rid of him and hardens the left against his ilk then that is good, but we will see. I am not optimistic, but as I don't have a cadre of the red guards handy I don't really know what else I can do. I can't make people's heads explode through psychic hatred alone and if I can't do it I doubt anyone else can either.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:24
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OwlFancier posted:I can't make people's heads explode through psychic hatred alone and if I can't do it I doubt anyone else can either. What if we all joined hands and tried it together?
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Feb 26, 2021 13:29
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OwlFancier posted:I quit in visceral disgust a while back, I think it was when RLB got sacked. When they get sick of Starmer there will be another porridge filled balloon in a suit to take his place
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Feb 26, 2021 13:34
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Continuity NIP posted:When they get sick of Starmer there will be another porridge filled balloon in a suit to take his place Who will be elected because too many lefties have quit. Yes, it is likely, but it is not certain.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:38
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Lmao https://twitter.com/richardburgon/status/1365272738890457091?s=21
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Feb 26, 2021 13:39
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feedmegin posted:Oh for heaven's sake. Someone still in the Labour party right now is not necessarily some raging Starmerite, back it down a little with the performative leftier-than-thou poo poo. Okay, a, gently caress off, it's not performative. I'm entirely sincere in my concerns about the continued existence of the Labour Party. I think it needs to die, or at the bare minimum have a force outside it pushing and pressuring from the left. You can argue whether the Overton Window is a valid theory but bare minimum we need people challenging capitalist dogma in public. B) I don't actually think voting for Starmer last year makes you a "raging Starmerite", seeing as some people in this thread did vote for him. Like, his campaign was based on lying about where he stood on just about every policy. I was just curious. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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