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THS posted:i feel like a piece of poo poo that in a world where people were working like 12 hour days and were way more oppressed, they were able to really kick off socialist revolutions, and i'm the alienated peon of a 9 hour work day, 10 hours with the commute, and i can't really read Capital because my brain is too hosed up from all of the insane everyday poo poo. i should try harder but drat i hate my job and hate everything around it. i just want to sleep when i get home. politics is very marginal to surviving and i feel like if i stopped caring about politics i'd be happier, but i know i will never stop caring about politics That's on purpose. It was on purpose then, too. You're standing on their shoulders.
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Feb 27, 2021 11:57
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Prince Myshkin posted:That's on purpose. It was on purpose then, too. You're standing on their shoulders. everyone's favorite Che Guevara was spirited away to slighter and slighter places just because of his asthma and overcame that and just smoked cigars
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Feb 27, 2021 12:02
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ToxicAcne posted:By the way how do you guys find Leo Panitch? I'm reading The Making of Global Capitalism and it's pretty interesting. He argues that the seeds of Neoliberalism were pretty much baked into Bretton Woods and the New Deal. I also like that he takes the cultural and institutional influence on Europe during this period seriously. Online you often see people acting like the US Post WW2 were a bunch of yokels who bumbled their way into hegemony (which I guess is a legacy of bitter Europeans). My man died of covid late last year. I was devastated. Michael Brooks, David Graeber, and last month we also lost Ed Rooksby.
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Feb 27, 2021 12:49
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Victory Position posted:everyone's favorite Che Guevara was spirited away to slighter and slighter places just because of his asthma and overcame that and just smoked cigars che guevera successfully won a revolution in one country and wanted to export it everywhere. he was an actual hero
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Feb 27, 2021 12:53
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Prince Myshkin posted:That's on purpose. It was on purpose then, too. You're standing on their shoulders. Good job you were here to stop that guy having his revelation.
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Feb 27, 2021 12:53
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Regarde Aduck posted:Good job you were here to stop that guy having his revelation. nah i'm good, what's your revelation?
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Feb 27, 2021 12:54
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capital is really boring and overly long but it's not difficult. just read a chapter now and then, you don't have to sit down and cram it. It's also good to read a chapter and then have it to think about for a day or two before you have spare time to read another chapter it's also an econ texbook and although it's a really good one if you're not into econ text books why do you want to read it? I read it when I was trying to teach myself micro econ in highschool b/c I somehow thought, wrongly, but then it turned out rightly, Marx was one of two viewpoints on economics I read it while I was answering phones at some call center when there weren't many calls. it felt really good & turned me full commie immediately
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Feb 27, 2021 13:04
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this soviet economics textbook is pretty helpful: https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/index.htm it basically explains political economy without assuming you have prior knowledge, and doesn't assume you are even trying to understand hegel, which i appreciate
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Feb 27, 2021 13:09
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THS posted:this soviet economics textbook is pretty helpful: They also put out A Dictionary of Political Economy.
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Feb 27, 2021 13:14
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Feb 27, 2021 13:44
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THS posted:i feel like a piece of poo poo that in a world where people were working like 12 hour days and were way more oppressed, they were able to really kick off socialist revolutions, and i'm the alienated peon of a 9 hour work day, 10 hours with the commute, and i can't really read Capital because my brain is too hosed up from all of the insane everyday poo poo. i should try harder but drat i hate my job and hate everything around it. i just want to sleep when i get home. politics is very marginal to surviving and i feel like if i stopped caring about politics i'd be happier, but i know i will never stop caring about politics
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Feb 27, 2021 16:23
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I love when people like that jacobin fail idiot make a big performance of giving people permission not read marx, as though they're doing something subversive. Hopefully him and his social democrat buddies can succeed in turning Jacobin into Vox.com for leftism so everyone can read some twitter sexpest's 500 word 'explainer' of Capital and nobody ever has to suffer through the real text againdead gay comedy forums posted:and imho I think it is there where the disconnect happens about reading Capital, because it seems (in my experience ofc) that people willing to engage with it as if it was a work of literature tend to get it, at least much better than the people who come with a "this is an extremely serious work" attitude. There are many skilled uses of metaphor and allegory to illustrate great points which are quite memorable If anything C-Spammers would really be able to appreciate Marx's extensive trolling of the political economists he's feuding with. *after quoting some poo poo by John Watts* "I quote this little work because it is a veritable gutter full of long-decayed and apologetic commonplaces." On Bentham: "in no time and in no country has the most homespun manufacturer of commonplaces ever strutted about in so self-satisfied a way... This is the kind of rubbish with which the brave fellow has piled up mountains of books... I should call Mr. Jeremy a genius in the ways of bourgeois stupidity." "Malthus, that master in plagiarism..." +too many slams on Proudhon to choose from
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Feb 27, 2021 16:44
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Marx drops a "turn on your monitor" joke in Capital Dude was an incredible shitposter
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Feb 27, 2021 16:49
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idk i think reading theory is a good exercise in that it can inoculate you against other people's diluted, bad-faith, or intentionally distorted perspective of it. you won't always encounter summaries and distillations that are decent and knowing the good ones from the bad ones is valuable. i suppose you could say it's like herd immunity, the more people know the primary source theory the easier time people who can't for whatever reason will have.
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Feb 27, 2021 16:51
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QUEER FRASIER posted:If anything C-Spammers would really be able to appreciate Marx's extensive trolling of the political economists he's feuding with lol what a great reminder the edition of Capital that I had back then was one with the full, unabridged, formatted-right-on-the-page footnotes. I lol'ed as gently caress when there was almost half a page of footnotes of just nonstop "gonna body a dumbass simpleton motherfucker for having the AUDACITY of having this poo poo written and my eyes had to suffer"
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Feb 27, 2021 16:56
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Regarde Aduck posted:Good job you were here to stop that guy having his revelation. The gently caress? This is a political ideology not a personal philosophy or a religion you loving moron. You don't need to meditate on the 18 sutras of Capital to be a communist. Dipshit.
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Feb 27, 2021 17:06
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CYBEReris posted:idk i think reading theory is a good exercise in that it can inoculate you against other people's diluted, bad-faith, or intentionally distorted perspective of it. you won't always encounter summaries and distillations that are decent and knowing the good ones from the bad ones is valuable. i suppose you could say it's like herd immunity, the more people know the primary source theory the easier time people who can't for whatever reason will have. I think in his German philosopher way, Marx wanted his first chapter to be one of the all-time great "let's get this poo poo done with asap" introductions, which leads to some interesting alternative "how to read Capital" programmes from universities across the world, like starting with chapter 7 or stuff like that Personally, like QUEER FRASIER said, I would suggest the two-pass approach nowadays. not worrying about making an analytical read at first and just taking it all in, so to speak, focusing on just reading without any special effort allows for a very great read already. After that, with the imagery in the mind, put it off for a few days and then go for the theory proper if the reader became intrigued to do so
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Feb 27, 2021 17:07
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when labour nuts, but capital keep suckin 😩
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Feb 27, 2021 17:28
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:your world-shaking rise to power will happen one day, and it will come as a lightning bolt... quick and unexpected. i believe in this i will put you in my cabinet but force you to enact horrors beyond imagining. brutalist mcdonalds will become a reality
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Feb 27, 2021 18:28
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i say swears online posted:millions of people have memorized the house legacy of the baratheons Surely dozens at best
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Feb 27, 2021 19:49
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QUEER FRASIER posted:I love when people like that jacobin fail idiot make a big performance of giving people permission not read marx, as though they're doing something subversive. Hopefully him and his social democrat buddies can succeed in turning Jacobin into Vox.com for leftism so everyone can read some twitter sexpest's 500 word 'explainer' of Capital and nobody ever has to suffer through the real text again you’re a fail idiot who can’t read so i would hesitate to recommend Marx to you, specifically
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Feb 27, 2021 21:16
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one thing that helps in understanding capital is realizing that it's basically a post in response to some of the most disingenuous, weaselly liberals that there ever were and so marx spends a lot of time slowly and deliberately closing off every possible avenue of escape they could use before going in for the kill
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Feb 27, 2021 22:25
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These insights were identified by Marx. They even had a mainstream tv show, all in the family, back when cuomo senior was the governor, making fun of how hosed up poo poo is. The only difference is that now, labor is weaker, people are more ignorant, there's less give from the environment for our excesses, and the security state is more expert, more entwined, more refined. Once, the entire middle swath of the country was a no go zone for bankers and their agents, sheriffs. Now? There was no easy answer for the Decemberists, (Восстание декабристов), Black Repartition (Чёрный передел), The People's Will, (Наро́дная во́ля), for others. At the time we need a new visionary to see what we cannot, I ask you bourgeoisie intellectuals the question of fame, of infamy: What is to Be Done?
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Feb 27, 2021 23:33
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QUEER FRASIER posted:I love when people like that jacobin fail idiot make a big performance of giving people permission not read marx, as though they're doing something subversive. Hopefully him and his social democrat buddies can succeed in turning Jacobin into Vox.com for leftism so everyone can read some twitter sexpest's 500 word 'explainer' of Capital and nobody ever has to suffer through the real text again I think I mentioned this before but there's a great bit where he goes on about how brilliant Aristotle was but he was incapable of analyzing Greek economics because he was too tied into the top of a slave society; then a few pages later he's dunking on Bastiat and goes "if a genius like Aristotle can make this mistake, what chance does a mediocrity like Bastiat have?"
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Feb 27, 2021 23:36
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What you consider to be Aristotle is later authors inventing his lectures based on fragments of a student's lecture notes. Much like how what we know of Socrates, all that we know of him, is propaganda, an invention of Plato.
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Feb 27, 2021 23:39
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oh, just like atlantis is an "invention" of plato? demiurgic archon-like typing detected!
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Feb 27, 2021 23:47
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THS posted:che guevera successfully won a revolution in one country and wanted to export it everywhere. he was an actual hero and he did the thing you'd expect of someone who'd win a revolution to do: "wait, poo poo? I have this under my charge now? well gently caress, time to learn how this works" and then figure out how banking works and make that work in like under three years really impressive poo poo, he is a hero through and through
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Feb 27, 2021 23:53
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Prince Myshkin posted:That's on purpose. It was on purpose then, too. You're standing on their shoulders. oh, so this is what a ladder looks like
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Feb 27, 2021 23:55
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When did Matt Taibi go off the deepend. I saw this article (from Jacobin nonetheless) refuting Taibbi's assertion that Herbert Marcuse is the father of cancel culture. https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/herbert-marcuse-matt-taibbi-frankfurt-school I haven't really read Marcuse outside of citations in Bookchin's work but even then it seems like a really stupid assertion. Nobody knows who the gently caress Marcuse even is. Edit: I was lead to believe that Matt Taibbi was a smart guy.
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Feb 28, 2021 00:06
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at least as far back as when he signed that stupid letter
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Feb 28, 2021 00:08
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cuba has excellent "healthcare"? sounds like they just want a bunch of working eyes and ears to receive all that propaganda e: f wrong thread again, awful app is bugged. oh well still works here
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Feb 28, 2021 00:11
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happy Pokémon 25 everyone
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Feb 28, 2021 00:33
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ToxicAcne posted:When did Matt Taibi go off the deepend. I saw this article (from Jacobin nonetheless) refuting Taibbi's assertion that Herbert Marcuse is the father of cancel culture. idk but he's clearly making a major pivot to the intellectual dark web
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Feb 28, 2021 02:10
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MEGA THREAD RETARD posted:What you consider to be Aristotle is later authors inventing his lectures based on fragments of a student's lecture notes. Pretty convenient that Herodotus was the only one who ever met them all imo
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Feb 28, 2021 02:13
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THS posted:this soviet economics textbook is pretty helpful: i've heard the shanghai textbook is quite good too: https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/china/fundamentals.pdf it's very cultural revolution though, so you get them saying things like this  the second half is iirc about how the chinese socialist economy worked at the time, which sounds quite interesting
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Feb 28, 2021 02:41
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mawarannahr posted:you’re a fail idiot who can’t read so i would hesitate to recommend Marx to you, specifically StashAugustine posted:I think I mentioned this before but there's a great bit where he goes on about how brilliant Aristotle was but he was incapable of analyzing Greek economics because he was too tied into the top of a slave society; then a few pages later he's dunking on Bastiat and goes "if a genius like Aristotle can make this mistake, what chance does a mediocrity like Bastiat have?" lmao
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Feb 28, 2021 03:26
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THS posted:i will put you in my cabinet but force you to enact horrors beyond imagining. brutalist mcdonalds will become a reality BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 03:32
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What do you guys think of Chibber's criticism of Said? It's been a long time since I read Orientalism (and I was too dumb to understand it) but many leftists like Tariq Ali, and Vijay Prashad adore Said.
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Feb 28, 2021 04:19
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re: marcuse it bears noting that he is known to have been funded at certain points by the OSS (marcuse literally worked for them during and after the war, though those are admittedly some pretty exigent circumstances), and he and adorno are both affiliated with institutions linked to the american intelligence community, notably Der Monat and, well, harvard i do not believe that he was consciously a wrecker or anything, but the marcuseian turn of the western left does seem to have contributed to its fall into its present dilapidated state, and its shift from a mass movement into basically intellectual masochism. one can certainly argue that this sort of shift was inevitable given the reality of the cold war and the inextricable links between welfarism and the american empire in the post-war period, but criticising marcuse should absolutely not be taken as a sign that someone's a secret reactionary or something
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Feb 28, 2021 10:15
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ToxicAcne posted:What do you guys think of Chibber's criticism of Said? It's been a long time since I read Orientalism (and I was too dumb to understand it) but many leftists like Tariq Ali, and Vijay Prashad adore Said. it's reasonable on its face, and i think the core of the critique (orientalist thinking cannot have been a main motivator of colonialism since it is present many places where colonialism obviously is not) is basically sound. i do have an issue with the apparent disinterest in how this latent orientalism was mobilised to justify colonial projects, which does seem to be a potentially fruitful investigation, and i think the argument relies a little too much on formalist tricks for its own good, i.e. boiling said's argument down to a syllogism and finding a place where it doesn't apply, thus 'refuting' it - this is a maddening argumentative strategy in general and i'm not super happy with it here either still, the gist is very plausible, and works well on its own terms and in its own discourse - said's culturalist attitudes were especially lauded in an intellectual landscape trying very hard to exorcise its connections to an apparently moribund and very dangerous political project, and so this conception of colonialism was mobilised to assist that turn...
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Feb 28, 2021 10:52
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