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There are plenty of economists who will tell you that the field has gone backwards for the last 40 years... much like living standards in America!
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Feb 28, 2021 17:53
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it would honestly not astonish me to learn that during other periods of extreme, arguably socially harmful wealth inequality (say, latifundium era rome) there were entire philosophical schools or orator traditions funded to support the status quo and reaffirm how some people are more deserving than others and that inequalities are based on merit so forth. it influences public opinion and someone needs to challenge and oppose efforts to moralize or address the stratification. wealthy people bribing people to get them to say how great they are seemed to underpin a lot of roman politics?
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Feb 28, 2021 17:59
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I mean that’s why the Charles Koch Foundation changed its name to “Cato”.
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Feb 28, 2021 18:03
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Doesn't micro-economics as a feild rely on humans being rational actors making rational decisions? Because uhhhhhh... That was my impression after exactly one undergrad course anyway. CoolCab posted:it would honestly not astonish me to learn that during other periods of extreme, arguably socially harmful wealth inequality (say, latifundium era rome) there were entire philosophical schools or orator traditions funded to support the status quo and reaffirm how some people are more deserving than others and that inequalities are based on merit so forth. it influences public opinion and someone needs to challenge and oppose efforts to moralize or address the stratification. wealthy people bribing people to get them to say how great they are seemed to underpin a lot of roman politics? They were called "The Optimates" sullat posted:Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary but competition for limited resources remains a constant. Need as well as greed has followed us to the stars and the rewards of wealth still await those wise enough to recognize this deep thrumming of our common pulse. 
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Feb 28, 2021 18:05
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Economics can also be used to solve much smaller-scale problems than national issues, but those normally don't get a lot of press. It's a science that analyzes behavior and resource distribution. You kinda have to keep your ear to the ground to notice. I think some that stick out to me is how it's been used to develop decentralized trading systems for zoos and food banks for distributing their resources between eachother in a fair way that is suited to the specific conditions of each site. There's also things like developing techniques to shame people into paying their taxes more. PittTheElder posted:Doesn't micro-economics as a feild rely on humans being rational actors making rational decisions? Because uhhhhhh... That's often the assumption, which leads to plenty of problems in the field, but they try to compensate by cataloguing common ways in which human behavior deviates from the supposedly rational. An evil use of that is microtransaction games that do their best to obscure how much money you're putting down in total while keeping you hooked on the sunk cost.
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Feb 28, 2021 18:31
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The old adage "no model is correct, but some are useful" applies, I think. Human behavior en masse is as complicated and difficult to fully explain as the weather, but by making some simplifying assumptions you can create models which do good enough to be useful. If a model doesn't meet that threshold, your assumptions were too simplifying (or just plain wrong) and you go back to the drawing board. I have no trouble believing "most people behave mostly in their own best interests" can be an input to very useful models. Assuming your goal is even to be accurate and not push an agenda, that is
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Feb 28, 2021 19:23
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I mean, people politicize history too. Look at all the people who go back to Rome or Sparta or the French Revolution or Weimar Germany or whatever to try to push analogies promoting their political views. I'd say no discipline is free from abuse by people who want to abuse it,
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Feb 28, 2021 20:24
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Epicurius posted:I mean, people politicize history too. Look at all the people who go back to Rome or Sparta or the French Revolution or Weimar Germany or whatever to try to push analogies promoting their political views. I'd say no discipline is free from abuse by people who want to abuse it, math is pure, but mathematicians are scarcely human
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Feb 28, 2021 20:43
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:math is pure, but mathematicians are scarcely human math is bullshit, we can't even uncontroversally categorize all numbers yet 
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Feb 28, 2021 20:50
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"Number" is a construct anyways
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Feb 28, 2021 20:52
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Math isn't real. It was made up as a publicity stunt for A Beautiful Mind (2002)
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Feb 28, 2021 21:01
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Math is real but it isn't just about numbers, they're just a particularly interesting special case of broader ideas
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Feb 28, 2021 21:05
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Math is a very useful series of tools, but I don't think it counts as a science in itself.
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Feb 28, 2021 21:06
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Feb 28, 2021 21:56
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:math is pure, but mathematicians are scarcely human indeed, they're an existence closer to the angels of traditional Catholic faith: messengers tasked with spreading a higher Truth on behalf of God, with an intelligence not perfect but certainly approaching perfection
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Feb 28, 2021 22:17
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nrook posted:indeed, they're an existence closer to the angels of traditional Catholic faith: messengers tasked with spreading a higher Truth on behalf of God, with an intelligence not perfect but certainly approaching perfection What no bussy does to a mfer
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Feb 28, 2021 22:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My current take on economics-as-a-science was basically shaped by watching the aftermath of the 2008 crash. Every right wing economist on the planet started demanding austerity and predicting that stimulus would destroy everything forever and never work, and were saying outright that if the stimulus package worked at all, it would discredit right-wing economists. Paul Krugman made a blog post saying "This stimulus package is inadequate, I expect anemic growth for the next two years and then we'll probably see GDP at around [y]" . One experiment doesn't show the model to be correct. You would expect atleast one economist to correctly predict GDP even if they were all just making up numbers.
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Feb 28, 2021 23:34
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Weka posted:One experiment doesn't show the model to be correct. You would expect atleast one economist to correctly predict GDP even if they were all just making up numbers. Ehh, there's a clustering effect; predictions weren't equally distributed. That said, sure, it isn't proof, but it sure was an indicator.
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Feb 28, 2021 23:53
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:math is bullshit, we can't even uncontroversally categorize all numbers yet Small numbers, big numbers, fake numbers - it isn't that hard.
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Mar 1, 2021 00:02
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someone requested i make this last week and am glad to have an opportunity to spread it 
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Mar 1, 2021 07:33
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steinrokkan posted:Small numbers, big numbers, fake numbers - it isn't that hard. Unreal numbers, infinity numbers, just cribbing from game engines really. Aleph? Is it a number or engine? Ah, screw you it's both.
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Mar 1, 2021 10:41
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Strategic Tea posted:STOP DOING MATH make me, punk
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Mar 1, 2021 11:46
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If this was found out in the wild spray painted on a wall instead of a computer I’d be interested in learning more.
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Mar 1, 2021 12:33
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SlothfulCobra posted:Math is a very useful series of tools, but I don't think it counts as a science in itself. lmao
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Mar 1, 2021 18:05
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Mar 1, 2021 19:02
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Firenze actually banned the use of arabic numerals in 1299 claiming it was too easy to cheat with the new numbers, 1 could be changed to 7 for example.
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Mar 1, 2021 19:05
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Is that like Jewish Physics?
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Mar 1, 2021 19:32
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ChubbyChecker posted:no because the people who don't live in places where they are protected by high level characters get put on orc menus Futher interesting Tolkein nerdery here. Argues that Orcs actually weren't that big a problem when a Dark Lord wasn't active. https://www.tor.com/2021/02/23/tolkiens-orcs-bolg-shagrat-and-the-maggot-folk-of-mordor/
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Mar 1, 2021 20:30
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Zopotantor posted:Is that like Jewish Physics? It's....almost as if those were similar problems by similar movements.
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Mar 1, 2021 21:06
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Yeah, pretty funny that somebody would consider math useful
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Mar 1, 2021 22:40
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A companion piece 
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Mar 1, 2021 23:26
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I mean it's clear that economics is a dead-end, that's why Hari Seldon had to come up with psychohistory. Have any economists accurately predicted the end of a giant empire? Check and mate Krugman.
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Mar 2, 2021 02:58
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Funny you should mention that, Krugman has always said reading Foundation as a teenager was his impetus to go into economics.
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Mar 2, 2021 03:18
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We can't even agree how many maths there are ffs
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Mar 2, 2021 11:26
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Since this thread has decided to just argue about stuff I say the Roman Empire ended in 476.
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Mar 2, 2021 12:51
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"Rome" is like a championship belt: beat the current Rome and you're the new Rome. Russia got the belt in 1878, lost it to Germany in 1918 who then lost it to France immediately, back to Germany in 1940 and back to Russia in 45. They held it until 1991 when the US won it at the end if the Cold War. It is back in Russian hands since 2016. All hail Russia, the 10th Rome.
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Mar 2, 2021 13:38
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I mean... isn't that basically how the Romans did things?
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Mar 2, 2021 14:42
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The Third Rome is the friends we made along the way.
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Mar 2, 2021 14:42
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Afghanistan actually took the Rome belt in the 80s and still holds it.
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Mar 2, 2021 15:53
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The real imperial regalia were stolen by the crusaders and subsequently moved to Oak Island hundreds of years later, ergo Canada is the true heir of Rome. You just wait for season 9 when it will all be confirmed.
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Mar 2, 2021 21:14
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