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Turkey gives Poland and Brazil a run for their money
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Mar 2, 2021 09:01
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AHH F/UGH posted:Turkey gives Poland and Brazil a run for their money Imagine a job market when companies present following as "benefits": -We pay salaries on time (it is quite common for many employers just hold your salaries in investment accounts until people literally riot because the interest rates are insanely high on short term) -We only work half day on Saturdays (it is a bragging matter if you are working in a workplace that actually jas 9 to 5, 5 day a week) -We pay your social security/national insurance (means the public pension) on your full salary! (There are so many people get hosed by this because they were desperate and accepted getting paid cash in hand so they will practically have no pensions besides minimum wage) -We sign work contracts before you begin working! (Usually you'll see your contract on the day you leave, they will hold your severance hostage until you sign it in case you are leaving with a court case) This is just the interview phase, imagine the joys of actually working!
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Mar 2, 2021 09:54
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And I thought not getting called back was bad.
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Mar 2, 2021 10:18
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Bright Bart posted:In some (or all?) EU countries it is standard to have your picture on your CV. That is not only annoying but also makes printing what will likely get thrown into the bin (or if you're lucky shredded) much more expensive as colour is expected. It's only Germany and France that do this to my knowledge. And it's going out of fashion thankfully. Although I'm seeing more and more grads from UK universities putting photos on. Which we have to autoreject without reading. I assume there's some reason for this but we can't even reach out and explain they need to stop it because the company is terrified of getting sued.
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Mar 2, 2021 10:19
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My employer has online applications and separate sections, that way we can do name-blind sifting. It also isn't possible to attach a photo. I don't know why more companies don't do this.
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Mar 2, 2021 10:26
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Mojo Jojo posted:It's only Germany and France that do this to my knowledge. And it's going out of fashion thankfully. That's weird. In the UK I associate photo CVs with boomers, mostly. Modern companies will straight up tell you 'No photos' in application processes, so I dunno what's up with that trend. Name is still de rigueur though. Hobbies and poo poo is only for uni kids with no work xp, and the 10% of people who hsve never removed that section since they themselves were uni kids. The true dystopia lies in the keyword searching 'algorithms' that basically pre-bin CVs if they don't hit enough arbitrary terms.
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Mar 2, 2021 10:32
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Wait is there some kind of push of companies somewhere that there is not even have someone’s loving NAME on a CV? lmao what the gently caress
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Mar 2, 2021 10:46
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AHH F/UGH posted:Wait is there some kind of push of companies somewhere that there is not even have someone’s loving NAME on a CV? lmao what the gently caress There's a push for CV review to take place without access to information that can be used to discriminate, so name, age and gender. Usually the idea is that HR redact that info when they pass it on for actual review as they need to know the name I'd forgotten a blinder of a CV that I saw a few weeks back that had a personal statement which was a rant about the challenges of being a Christian and a Scientist and then the hobbies section was a list of churches they attended. I was astounded. I still wonder if it was some kind of discrimination case study rather than a legit application
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Mar 2, 2021 10:52
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Schools/unis in the UK love to give weird outdated advice like sending thank you emails after the interview and writing a really long intro section about yourself, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve now started pushing for photos on CV. It’s the old-fashioned mentality of ‘gotta be memorable no matter what it takes!’ The hobbies section of the CV is a thinly-veiled indicator for class, background, personality etc (‘culture fit’) where companies don’t accept cover letters. Someone who puts their hobby as skiing/travelling vs going out with mates (a surprising number of people write this) vs running their own BDSM site are all very different people. I never hear anyone suggest we should hide this section for discrimination reasons though for some reason.
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Mar 2, 2021 11:06
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AHH F/UGH posted:Wait is there some kind of push of companies somewhere that there is not even have someone’s loving NAME on a CV? lmao what the gently caress As someone with a very ethnic name attached to a decidedly non-ethnic body, ~10 years ago I got very used to a very particular look of visible confusion and disappointment when arriving for an interview, so it's not like it doesn't imply anything about you. Nowadays, they just look you up on LinkedIn first (and maybe Facebook if they're psychos) in advance anyway so no photos means nothing if the position is in any way considered important. CVs are declining in relevance for most people as so much recruitment now is web based through forms anyway, so as Mojo says, it can be held automatically identity blind.
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Mar 2, 2021 11:11
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Jeza posted:The true dystopia lies in the keyword searching 'algorithms' that basically pre-bin CVs if they don't hit enough arbitrary terms. I don't know if this is true or not but a contractor friend told me to have a list of keywords/buzzwords (like hundreds (thousands?) of them), have them minimized to like the microscopic fonts and have letter coloring white so you embed it in your CV to be picked up by the algorithm used by the HR softwares. Dunno if there is any truth to that but with the problem you mentioned, it might seem like a thing. I have like one throwaway mention about a Document Control software I used before and every now and then I get queries about it despite it was stated that I was only the end user. It has to be the algorithm picking it up because a human recruiter would pick up that I only used the software, not a developer or even admin. Galewolf fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 11:15
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I know it’s not always the case but it seems like a self correcting problem of companies passing by the best candidates based on their name alone, not to mention at some point in the interview process the name is going to have be learned regardless
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Mar 2, 2021 11:18
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AHH F/UGH posted:I know it’s not always the case but it seems like a self correcting problem of companies passing by the best candidates based on their name alone, not to mention at some point in the interview process the name is going to have be learned regardless Obviously once you get to the interview stage, it's all out the window, but foot-in-the-door is still important. The point is as much to mitigate unconscious bias as conscious bias in the initial stages. Galewolf posted:I don't know if this is true or not but a contractor friend told me to have a list of keywords/buzzwords (like hundreds (thousands?) of them), have them minimized to like the microscopic fonts and have letter coloring white so you embed it in your CV to be picked up by the algorithm used by the HR softwares. Filling your CV with millions of tiny words like "collaboration" is more urban legend than truth, but Applicant Tracking Systems (and believe me, almost every large company uses them) will absolutely be filtering CVs by keywords, specifically those in relation to skills. So if you apply for a job, look very carefully at all the required skills and match as many as you can in your own CV with the same terminology. The further you are in your career, the less this sort of thing matters, but it's extremely pertinent for entry level/graduate roles, because if you're applying anywhere sizeable, they are getting literally thousands of speculative applications for any position. This kind of thing is the double-edged sword of living in a world where all positions must be advertised, everyone can find them, and far, far more people are technically 'qualified' because most people have at least an UG degree.
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Mar 2, 2021 11:30
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Jeza posted:
Good stuff here. What my friend suggested was to fill more technical keywords like writing down "concrete" ten times so the algorithm supposedly have multiple matches for a position in ready mixed concrete plant supervisor rather than generalized ones like you said. Again, like you said, the further in your career the less it becomes relevant as at this point I only apply for very specific jobs that are looking for quite limited criteria. I saw some recent CVs that have a bullet point lists of keywords in the very first page which is pretty much what you suggested. I try to have three variants of my CV, one for my current industry, one for the one I eventually want to work in and one for if I get unemployed in my field and have to go for temp jobs (which has more focus on general skills than listing my fancy certifications).
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Mar 2, 2021 11:57
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"Is 'culpable' even an English word, or did you spell something wrong?"
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Mar 2, 2021 12:01
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Graduate CV screening is absolute hell. You get 30-50 applications to any STEM grad job and all of the CVs are identical. They all have a 2i or First and the distinction between those grades is actually not indicative of ability (I have to wonder what happens to people with 2ii and Thirds, maybe they just leave the grade off their CV and nobody notices? ), so you're left with formatting of the CV, if they picked a combo of modules that matches the job, if their final year project sounded interesting, maybe an internship that sounds like it wasn't hanging out in your mum's office and the rest is just class and ethnic identifiers that you need to ignore. Ideally cover letters should bridge that gap, but I've never encountered a useful cover letter I feel terrible doing it because I can't bring in thirty kids to interview. I have to somehow pick four or five. Maybe the answer is just ten minute screening interviews where I shout physics problems and see if they can apply any of the knowledge they should have.
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Mar 2, 2021 12:03
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:"Is 'culpable' even an English word, or did you spell something wrong?" It means deserving/taking blame
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Mar 2, 2021 12:04
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Mojo Jojo posted:Graduate CV screening is absolute hell. You get 30-50 applications to any STEM grad job and all of the CVs are identical. They all have a 2i or First and the distinction between those grades is actually not indicative of ability (I have to wonder what happens to people with 2ii and Thirds, maybe they just leave the grade off their CV and nobody notices? ), so you're left with formatting of the CV, if they picked a combo of modules that matches the job, if their final year project sounded interesting, maybe an internship that sounds like it wasn't hanging out in your mum's office and the rest is just class and ethnic identifiers that you need to ignore. Do you not do the 5 levels of culling before inviting people to a 2 day assessment centre? That's how it seemed like a bunch of entry level stuff in the uk works
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Mar 2, 2021 12:15
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Mojo Jojo posted:It means deserving/taking blame It is also spelled the exact same way with the same meaning in Spanish, I have to say I did a double take there  General namechat: I have an Arabic-sounding first name (not actually arabic, father just made a bunch of sounds he liked into a name then talked my mom into it) followed by the two most generic-sounding family names ever. When I reported to the library as an intern on my first day, there were two of us there, for two openings: Arabic and German. The sweet old lady managing the Library just took a glance at us two, asked us our names, and assigned me to the Arabic section and the other girl to German. I didn't think much of that at the time. Fast forward many months, and I learned that Arabic interns were actually carefully selected, because some years ago a kid managed to get themselves into a discrimination lawsuit with the patrons*  . It then clicked on me that the assignation process was something along the lines of "name sounds arabic so she'll probably manage to avoid offending the arabic students"*The patrons, apart from not being many (it was a very small section), were some of the most sweet students I have met and I had no problem with anyone there, except for the guy who kept parking his bike on the narrow corridors between the shelves. We were on a first floor, but he carried his bike upstairs every day he came around, because he had no bike lock. Then he picked up a book, opened it, and proceeded to stare at his phone laughing loudly for half an hour, then returned the book and left. Shellception fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 12:37
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Mojo Jojo posted:It means deserving/taking blame Yes, I know. What I don't know is why this was a question. Shellception posted:It is also spelled the exact same way with the same meaning in Spanish, I have to say I did a double take there That might explain it, actually.
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Mar 2, 2021 13:22
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Latin roots are strong in the legal section of the language.
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Mar 2, 2021 14:18
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False friends trip us all up. I don't mind them asking me if culpable was supposed to be there or if someone had "edited" by putting a Spanish word in that they wanted me to translate for them, because unfortunately that's happened before, but the "Is this even a real English word?" question was like...wha? Nah, I just got that big Lewis Carroll energy. Chortle! Frabjous! Snicker-snack! Arrrgh.
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Mar 2, 2021 14:28
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Not my current job but I applied for a case advocate job for the IRS (essentially a person that works with people who are struggling to pay their taxes by trying to secure extra money/grants for them, a decently noble cause) and at the end of the very brief application process it automatically tells me that I'm not qualified. Fine but I applied for a job with them three years ago where the posting also covered a supervisory position. They said I wasn't qualified for the entry-level job but was for the supervisor role (???) but they never followed up. Not exactly sure what to believe. Government work is great if you can get it and your priority is stability over pay. I don't make even an average wage for my city but I've never been without work, my hours don't get cut and because my work is not tied to making the numbers in a financial graph go up, my bosses are totally cool with me having down time.
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Mar 2, 2021 15:16
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Mojo Jojo posted:I feel terrible doing it because I can't bring in thirty kids to interview. I have to somehow pick four or five. Maybe the answer is just ten minute screening interviews where I shout physics problems and see if they can apply any of the knowledge they should have. Make it realistic. Send all thirty candidates a work related problem at 3am. First five to respond with a correct answer get an interview. The CFO's kid get the job.
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Mar 2, 2021 15:37
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I don't know if this is a thing anywhere else but there was a time back in Turkey that it was quite popular to have open interviews with all the candidates in one room. I got invited to a meeting once for a "technical advisor" position for a software company doing GIS mapping and geological survey software. I was shocked when the PA lady told us that we will be all being interviewed at the same time and I was like "boy this is going to be a cringefest". The owner was a pseudo-tech-bro, riding a wave of government grants in a field with questionable demand (why do I care, I just needed to work) and had like Three Musketeers mustache and the most repulsive "I'm too smart for this poo poo  " attitude. Anyway, at that point I was somewhat had enough of this sort of "experimental" bullshit so when the douchebag asked the first question, I jumped right in an started the conversation which copied by the rest of the table (I think we were at least 12 people). Mfer spew out some more smug poo poo and asked us to leave for the second group.I mean, holy hell it was a degrading experience and I should've walked out of that meeting but see: my tl;dr post about the job market in Turkey.
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Mar 2, 2021 15:59
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Galewolf posted:I don't know if this is a thing anywhere else but there was a time back in Turkey that it was quite popular to have open interviews with all the candidates in one room. I got invited to a meeting once for a "technical advisor" position for a software company doing GIS mapping and geological survey software. I was shocked when the PA lady told us that we will be all being interviewed at the same time and I was like "boy this is going to be a cringefest". When I interviewed with the MSI in Chicago, open interviews were standard for external hires. Family member who's HR director for a food manufacturer has said she sees it in other fields as well. It never goes well. (Got an offer for a different position that was part time, so I couldn't take that one.)
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Mar 2, 2021 16:09
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Group interviews in the US seem to be reserved for shitcan jobs where they just need warm bodies. I've thankfully never had to do one but I grabbed lunch at a crappy Mexican food restaurant where one half of the tables were a mass interview for that place and the other was for the GameStop next door. Everyone looked miserable and rightly so.
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Mar 2, 2021 16:12
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At our MegaCorp HQ a dept VP was Very Serious but had very little to do. During meetings he'd go through slide decks intended for our retail locations, and do stuff like identify cashiers were not scanning items in the bottom of shopping carts at an acceptable rate, and although we had zero contact with cashiers or responsibility for that task, we were expected to nod and agree this was something that must be fixed immediately. Never mind that nearly all of those in the meeting would keel over if sent to work an 8 hour shift hauling shopping carts instead of playing fruit ninja at their desk for triple the pay.
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Mar 2, 2021 16:17
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Inzombiac posted:Group interviews in the US seem to be reserved for shitcan jobs where they just need warm bodies. The only time I've seen group interviews work well is for certain public facing positions where you're able to have candidates model the sort of interactions they're going to be doing on a regular basis. Like... Hell, I don't know, the first thing to come to mind is "Disney ride ops" but that's Defunctland Jaws episode putting that on my mind; the sorts of jobs where it's more performance than customer service, it lets you see a) how the candidate does on their own, b) how well the candidate works with partners sharing the stage. This still requires way smaller groups than are normal for group interviews, like 4-6 people and not 15+. They still suck but they at least have a purpose in that situation.
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Mar 2, 2021 16:17
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I remember friends talking about group interviews for working at the mall Hollister and Abercrombie because they very quickly needed to weed out a bunch of uggos
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Mar 2, 2021 16:25
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George H.W. oval office posted:I remember friends talking about group interviews for working at the mall Hollister and Abercrombie because they very quickly needed to weed out a bunch of uggos sorry you didn't get the job
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Mar 2, 2021 16:28
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My company constantly rolls out new spreadsheets and programs as quickly as possible, then lets us deal with the MANY issues that arise from how buggy and busted everything is, constantly sending out revisions and updates. And god forbid you miss an email and use an old version, because in 6 months you'll find out some random bit of information wasn't uploaded to some random table in a server halfway across the country and then you're in major trouble. I think the record has been 5 revisions for an excel spreadsheet in a week.
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Mar 2, 2021 16:38
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George H.W. oval office posted:I remember friends talking about group interviews for working at the mall Hollister and Abercrombie because they very quickly needed to weed out a bunch of uggos Was that policy the one they got sued for or the one their CEO just openly admitted to because he was an idiot who didn't understand public relations?
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Mar 2, 2021 16:45
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Having our weekly meeting, where everyone really just has questions for our boss who either doesn't answer them or isn't at the meeting. Hes trying to promote my annoying coworker to be his assistant so he can push more of his duties on to her, but thats been in the pipeline for months now and always seems to be happening in "two more weeks". Were in a very weird place right now. The department is mainly funded by two grants, one im more responsible for and one that the rest of the staff are under. My director was asking me what tasks I thought we may have to kick down the road due to covid, and I came up with a list to discuss, but he's dodged every attempt at me contacting him about it. Were supposed to have something ready to propose for our next grant cycle, which is related to what we may be kicking back, and hes also dodged any attempt to communicate about that and told me he's taking care of it with the agency. Ive gotten emails from said agency asking us where our proposals are so I think he's lying. Our other main grant is over a month late for its quarterly report. Thats technically annoying coworkers job, but they've kicked it down to a useless coworker, who has done absolutely nothing for months and is on some sort of performance improvement program from HR. I was asked to help useless coworker with the quarterly report, but I don't know what they have and haven't done for that grant (not my area) and no ones reached out to me about it. The due date was extended to yesterday lol.
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Mar 2, 2021 16:51
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My new hire starts today, what dumb poo poo should I have her do to make her hate me as quickly as possible?
Outrail fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 17:02
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Outrail posted:My new hire starts today, what stupid poo poo should I have her do to make her hate me as quickly as possible? Passive aggressively establish a hierarchy. If she asks you something via email, forward that email to another coworker and say "hey so and so can you help new hire with this?" And then answer the question in the email. For example, new hire asks where a form is located. Forward new hires email, with them ccd, to another coworker, saying "can you show new hire where we keep the forms in the left drawer in that one desk in the back part of the office?". Youll be simultaneously answering the question, not responding to them directly, and wasting a third parties time.
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Mar 2, 2021 17:07
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titty_baby_ posted:Passive aggressively establish a hierarchy. If she asks you something via email, forward that email to another coworker and say "hey so and so can you help new hire with this?" And then answer the question in the email. Thats the good stuff.
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Mar 2, 2021 17:08
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On CVs, one of the full time jobs I had advertised for a Junior Designer, and the 3 of us got to sift through the 250+ print CVs posted in (this was around 2004). Anything with a photo on was insta-binned. Apparently there's either some University or tips website that was recommending 'lay out your CV like a Newspaper front page', the headline being 'so-and-so lands job at (Our company!)'. It was embarrassing, as the photo was usually the applicant grinning away with two thumbs up. I fail to see how you'd look at that as a designer and think 'yeah, this'll really make me stand out from the crowd', we had about 15 of them all done the same. Similar thing with printing them on coloured paper. All we want to see is where you've worked & for how long, and skim your design work, nobody's reading to the end to find out you like going on holiday/long walks. One of the applications came with a tiny CD, that had a quicktime movie on 'The History of Fireplaces'. It was loving bizarre, that got kept for a good long while so we could laugh at it every now & then. The girl we did take on got unceremoniously canned about 6 months later as they felt she wasn't up to standard, which was news to us, she was doing a fine job. So a meeting is called, which we thought would be the same process as before, or who was second choice etc. Instead it's "a new designer will be starting with you in 10 days, he's coming into tomorrow so you need to explain what the set-up is to him." Oh...kay. Turns out this chump is the Directors nephew, fresh out of college. He wasn't a bad person, but he'd clearly never heard the word no in his life, and what little work he did do, the rest of us would usually end up re-working. 6 months down the line & after multiple complaints, the Director tells us it doesn't matter as he's moving on in a month anyway. As they'd lined him up a 'more senior, to suit his abilities' job at a high-end design agency in the US, Texas I think (we're based in London). If I could remember his surname I'd try and track him down on LinkedIn to see how hard he failed at that, but he's probably a Senior Design Director there now, never being any good but failing upwards due to who his family is. gently caress nepotism. The other fun thing I've found with CVs is people direct e-mailing them to a shared account, looking at the portfolio and finding work I'd done 4 years previously in it. Not even an updated version, the exact same file I had. I need words with that person, because that's the sort of thing that'll get you blacklisted forever in freelance circles.
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Mar 2, 2021 17:10
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Outrail posted:My new hire starts today, what dumb poo poo should I have her do to make her hate me as quickly as possible? If the first reaction to a new hire starting is "gotta make her hate me", I'd just say act normally and it'll come naturally. Ain't gonna help you to open things up right away with conflict.
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Mar 2, 2021 17:17
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SkyeAuroline posted:If the first reaction to a new hire starting is "gotta make her hate me", I'd just say act normally and it'll come naturally. I’m sure that’s their sincere intention, and not a joke post on a comedy site.
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Mar 2, 2021 17:19
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