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Been reading a bunch of old DC Elseworlds books and man the quality of these books is even more inconsistent than I remembered, makes a bit more sense now why DC mostly abandoned the concept after a while even though it happened right around the same time they brought back the Multiverse as a concept in the main universe(and thus has resulted in it going heavily underused for most of the time it's been back)
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Mar 1, 2021 23:57
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:36 |
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Speaking of Elseworlds. J.M. DeMatteis (@JMDeMatteis) Tweeted: @AdamLanceGarcia I pitched a follow-up with Bruce Wayne being abducted and taken to Krypton where he became Superman...but DC passed. https://twitter.com/JMDeMatteis/status/1366092151667458048?s=20
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Mar 2, 2021 00:38
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drrockso20 posted:Been reading a bunch of old DC Elseworlds books and man the quality of these books is even more inconsistent than I remembered, makes a bit more sense now why DC mostly abandoned the concept after a while even though it happened right around the same time they brought back the Multiverse as a concept in the main universe(and thus has resulted in it going heavily underused for most of the time it's been back) It was goofy how often the series would just end on the status quo, like the comic in the post above mine which is Kal-El being adopted by the Waynes and becomes Batman but then just becomes Superman at the end, with a slightly different costume. There's one where Bruce becomes Green Lantern and for some reason Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash never become heroes? It doesn't do a good job of explaining why they were just sitting around until the Guardians show up and make them Green Lanterns. Also that comic doesn't have an end because Green Batman doesn't defeat a combined Joe Chill/Sinestro (who are somehow Joker?) and instead just heads off to space to do stuff with the GLC.
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Mar 2, 2021 02:11
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Uthor posted:Speaking of Elseworlds. There's a very similar story where human Clark Kent is raised on Krypton, gets a GL ring and when he returns to earth he discovers the harsh kryptonian environment has made him super human compared to am earth man. Last Son of Earth, probably my favorite Elseworlds ever.
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Mar 2, 2021 05:04
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It is weird the Elseworlds aren't as beloved as What If?, since in theory DC could be working with many more years of continuity. But really I feel like reading any Superfamily title from the Silver Age feels more like a DC What If, albeit with really dumb questions, like what if Lois Lane was black and what if Superman had to eat a lot of hamburgers.
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Mar 2, 2021 06:18
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A Strange Aeon posted:It is weird the Elseworlds aren't as beloved as What If?, since in theory DC could be working with many more years of continuity. But really I feel like reading any Superfamily title from the Silver Age feels more like a DC What If, albeit with really dumb questions, like what if Lois Lane was black and what if Superman had to eat a lot of hamburgers. I'm way more a Marvel guy than a DC guy, but I can easily name a bunch more Elseworlds I like than What Ifs.
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Mar 2, 2021 06:30
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A Strange Aeon posted:It is weird the Elseworlds aren't as beloved as What If?, since in theory DC could be working with many more years of continuity. But really I feel like reading any Superfamily title from the Silver Age feels more like a DC What If, albeit with really dumb questions, like what if Lois Lane was black and what if Superman had to eat a lot of hamburgers. What Ifs tend to have better hooks because they usually take important comics that readers know about and ask how the story could've gone differently. Elseworlds do whatever they want and it's confusing and alienating and it doesn't do a little recap at the start to remind you how things should be going so if you don't know the continuity too well you can't really appreciate the differences. They do have the advantage of being more self contained, in theory, but in practice they tend to be just as reliant on prior knowledge of the characters as any What If, minus the helpful text boxes that tell you what's changed. There's definitely some extremely classic Elseworlds stories like Red Son, Kingdom Come, Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader, The Dark Knight Returns, but overall there isn't a fun campy hook to the concept of an elseworlds and the branding isn't as clear cut, which mean each one lives or dies in isolation as opposed to being a fun part of a larger thought experiment. DC's in a terrible spot in the modern day because they don't even know their own continuity anymore, so they couldn't possibly do something like What If. While Marvel isn't immune to retcons and has certainly flirted with incomprehensible reboots with the extremely ill-advised Secret Wars, they've never wiped the slate clean and then not explained what's changed like DC. Almost every Marvel story you can name still happened in the modern day. That's why you can do a What If. Elseworlds do tend to be graphic novels instead of single floppies, so they have the advantage of being able to let the story breathe more.
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Mar 2, 2021 07:58
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I find it a bit different than that. What If's felt like they required you to know the plot points up until the change from the original storyline (so What If Spiderman didn't teach the Beyonder how to poop would require you to know what the big event was that required Spiderman to teach the Beyonder to poop, what that lead to, and what has now changed for the What if?) where as Elseworld is "Batman is now a vampire/Green Lantern/fighting Jack the Ripper/Frankenstein". The premise always seemed to be "Character in different setting" whereas What Ifs felt like "event went differently somehow" and would require you to know the history of said event to understand why it is a big deal that it went differently.
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Mar 2, 2021 17:55
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Okay but now I have to know what would happen if Spider-Man didn't teach the beyonder to poop
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Mar 2, 2021 18:06
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Madkal posted:I find it a bit different than that. What If's felt like they required you to know the plot points up until the change from the original storyline (so What If Spiderman didn't teach the Beyonder how to poop would require you to know what the big event was that required Spiderman to teach the Beyonder to poop, what that lead to, and what has now changed for the What if?) where as Elseworld is "Batman is now a vampire/Green Lantern/fighting Jack the Ripper/Frankenstein". The premise always seemed to be "Character in different setting" whereas What Ifs felt like "event went differently somehow" and would require you to know the history of said event to understand why it is a big deal that it went differently. That's why What Ifs always open with The Watcher telling you why the event was important.
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Mar 2, 2021 18:16
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site posted:Okay but now I have to know what would happen if Spider-Man didn't teach the beyonder to poop Cosmic skidmarks.
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Mar 2, 2021 18:36
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Ah so that's where knull came from
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Mar 2, 2021 19:02
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Probably the darkest Elseworld is the Vampire Batman trilogy. Most other ones would end with things returning to the status quo or something close to it while Vampire Batman just keeps getting darker as it goes. Red Rain, the first one, mostly fits the standard as it ends with Batman becoming a vampire but he's going to be a good vampire who never drinks blood. Bloodstorm, the second one, kills off Catwoman which makes Vampire Batman drain the Joker of blood in a fit of rage. This one ends with Bruce making Alfred stake him because of the whole killing Joker thing. Crimson Mist, the final one, has Alfred unstake Batman after Gotham's criminals start running rampant. Unfortunately Vampire Batman has become full blown evil. This one ends with all of Batman's rogue's gallery dead, along with Alfred and Gordon who die trying to stop Vampire Batman. Standing in the ruins of the Batcave with the bodies of both friend and foe around him Batman steps into a ray of sunlight, killing himself. I'm kind of surprised they didn't try to rebrand those books as part of the Dark Multiverse because they definitely feel like they would fit right in.
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Mar 2, 2021 19:04
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muscles like this! posted:Probably the darkest Elseworld is the Vampire Batman trilogy. Most other ones would end with things returning to the status quo or something close to it while Vampire Batman just keeps getting darker as it goes. Red Rain, the first one, mostly fits the standard as it ends with Batman becoming a vampire but he's going to be a good vampire who never drinks blood. Bloodstorm, the second one, kills off Catwoman which makes Vampire Batman drain the Joker of blood in a fit of rage. This one ends with Bruce making Alfred stake him because of the whole killing Joker thing. Crimson Mist, the final one, has Alfred unstake Batman after Gotham's criminals start running rampant. Unfortunately Vampire Batman has become full blown evil. This one ends with all of Batman's rogue's gallery dead, along with Alfred and Gordon who die trying to stop Vampire Batman. Standing in the ruins of the Batcave with the bodies of both friend and foe around him Batman steps into a ray of sunlight, killing himself. I love Red Rain but could never get into the sequels for some reason. I do love the art/writing team though. They also did another Batman elsworld called "Dark Joker, The Wild" which is a comic that still creeps me out to this day. Basically its a fantasy world where the Joker is a dark wizard looking to unleash evil and Batman is a nearly mindless monster sent to stop the Joker. It's one of those stories that I read as a kid and stuck with me forever. Anyway, I always felt that Elseworlds are mostly void of continuity beyond knowing the origin of a character and even that isn't important. The only one that I would say is continuity heavy, even though you don't need to know it all, is Kingdom Come.
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Mar 2, 2021 19:12
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You keep saying that, but there's a ton of Elseworlds that have unique reimagined versions of well known characters in them that are introduced with like pregnant pauses or meaningful framing panels of the nameplate on their desk and then they say something that's ironic if you know what they're like in the regular comics. All that stuff completely flies over your head if you''re not solidly familiar with the source material and it makes for a confusing read, like you started watching a movie in the second act.
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Mar 2, 2021 19:28
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Like any anthology line, Elseworld is hit or miss. You get stuff like Gotham By Gaslight and Kingdom Come, where the new setting or genre twist adds a new take and says something, and then there stuff like JLA Act Of God (where God takes everyone's superpowers and Wonder Woman becomes Catholic because she didn't have faith before, I guess?) or Catwoman Guardian Of Gotham (which rides that line between camp and gross that a lot of Jim Balent art does, but is pretty funny in how blatant the reversal is. Selina has a Cat-Signal, a Cat-Mobile, and her Alfred is a sexy French maid!)
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Mar 2, 2021 21:22
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muscles like this! posted:Probably the darkest Elseworld is the Vampire Batman trilogy. Most other ones would end with things returning to the status quo or something close to it while Vampire Batman just keeps getting darker as it goes. Red Rain, the first one, mostly fits the standard as it ends with Batman becoming a vampire but he's going to be a good vampire who never drinks blood. Bloodstorm, the second one, kills off Catwoman which makes Vampire Batman drain the Joker of blood in a fit of rage. This one ends with Bruce making Alfred stake him because of the whole killing Joker thing. Crimson Mist, the final one, has Alfred unstake Batman after Gotham's criminals start running rampant. Unfortunately Vampire Batman has become full blown evil. This one ends with all of Batman's rogue's gallery dead, along with Alfred and Gordon who die trying to stop Vampire Batman. Standing in the ruins of the Batcave with the bodies of both friend and foe around him Batman steps into a ray of sunlight, killing himself. Wasn't Red Rain one of the Earths that stuck around for Multiversity? I remember a Kelley Jones drawing of a vampire Justice League in that guidebook. But somehow they had a vampire Earth-3 Ultraman instead of a vampire Superman?
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Mar 3, 2021 02:22
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Vampire Batman showed up in a Countdown related tie-in where they did a Contest of Champions-alike with characters from multiple universes fighting.
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Mar 3, 2021 02:31
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Splint Chesthair posted:Wasn't Red Rain one of the Earths that stuck around for Multiversity? I remember a Kelley Jones drawing of a vampire Justice League in that guidebook. But somehow they had a vampire Earth-3 Ultraman instead of a vampire Superman? Yup and every time it's shown up it's been lame, both because having Vampire Batman be a villain is lame(only works in Crimson Mist because he dies at the end) and having everyone become vampires is also lame, should have had everyone be different kinds of monster
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Mar 3, 2021 03:03
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that is bullshit, supermonster Superman should be a mummy: the only classic monster that respects the sun
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Mar 3, 2021 03:04
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plus, there already exists a Superman-mummy link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBs_uy4mApc
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Mar 3, 2021 03:08
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Squizzle posted:that is bullshit, supermonster Superman should be a mummy: the only classic monster that respects the sun There is an Elseworld where he's a Frankenstein monster.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:15
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muscles like this! posted:There is an Elseworld where he's a Frankenstein monster. the loving audacity!! he is the last son of krypton, not the first, blasphemous son of victor!!!
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Mar 3, 2021 03:27
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muscles like this! posted:There is an Elseworld where he's a Frankenstein monster. And there's a Batman one as well
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Mar 3, 2021 03:32
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The most confusing Elseworld definitely has to be JLA: Destiny which takes forever to explain why things are different (instead of Bruce Wayne and Kal-El there's Thomas Wayne and Jor-El) and also uses a bunch of Golden Age heroes without actually explaining who they are.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:44
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muscles like this! posted:The most confusing Elseworld definitely has to be JLA: Destiny which takes forever to explain why things are different (instead of Bruce Wayne and Kal-El there's Thomas Wayne and Jor-El) and also uses a bunch of Golden Age heroes without actually explaining who they are. Yeah that one is kinda a weird one, though it did have some fun ideas
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Mar 3, 2021 04:19
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They did all the 1994 annuals as Elseworlds but I don’t recall any being too great.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:28
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muscles like this! posted:Vampire Batman showed up in a Countdown related tie-in where they did a Contest of Champions-alike with characters from multiple universes fighting. Batman turning into a vampire doesn't originate with Red Rain, he briefly turned into a vampire in a 1982 story that was pretty memorable and had a bunch of cool panels of him fanging out and nearly attacking his friends and considering suicide.   Red Rain was almost certainly inspired by it, and the motif of turning him into a vampire in elseworlds and dimensional shenanigans has its roots in both stories (and fitting thematically).
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Mar 3, 2021 09:24
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CopywrightMMXI posted:They did all the 1994 annuals as Elseworlds but I don’t recall any being too great. I loved the two-part story where the JLA had to go underground after aliens conquered Earth. IIRC, Wally had lost the use of his legs and became a guy who shot guns really fast. GL was blind, I think? It was badass in 1994. Those 1994 annuals were also the origin of Pirate Batman.
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Mar 3, 2021 14:13
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There was also the Legends of the Dead Earth year of annuals which were just Elseworlds set in the future. JLA the Nail is good. I also really enjoyed Superboys Legion. Anything Alan Davis drew really.
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Mar 3, 2021 14:55
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Can’t believe no one’s mentioned The Batman of Arkham yet. Give me a sequel to that with Batman and his best buddy Croc fighting crime and Dr. Bruce Wayne providing actual quality care to people.
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Mar 3, 2021 15:58
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The Legends of the Dark Knight elseworld annual was pretty cool. It was called Citizen Wayne and starts off with Harvey Dent and Bruce Wayne dead after a fight on a roof top. In Wayne's hand is a torn piece of clothing with a bat on it. A detective has to figure out what happened and what lead to these two men's death.
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Mar 3, 2021 18:38
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https://twitter.com/Lord_Mo/status/1367174660928995330
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Mar 3, 2021 20:11
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Mr. Maltose posted:Can’t believe no one’s mentioned The Batman of Arkham yet. Give me a sequel to that with Batman and his best buddy Croc fighting crime and Dr. Bruce Wayne providing actual quality care to people. That one is a favorite of mine Those designs would be right at home in a late 80's to mid 90's Super Sentai series
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Mar 4, 2021 00:55
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drrockso20 posted:That one is a favorite of mine It's from the Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark broadway play that was cancelled early because every actor playing Spider-Man suffered horrible injuries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RgR0-EWuNY
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Mar 4, 2021 01:02
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Skwirl posted:It's from the Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark broadway play that was cancelled early because every actor playing Spider-Man suffered horrible injuries. I'm aware, doesn't refute my point though
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Mar 4, 2021 01:08
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Skwirl posted:It's from the Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark broadway play that was cancelled early because every actor playing Spider-Man suffered horrible injuries. It was a poorly managed project on every level by people who didn't give two fucks about Spider-Man beyond seeing dollar signs. I'm not saying you have to be a Spider-Man fanatic to make a good adaptation of Spider-Man, but you have to have at least enough respect for the material that you don't go in thinking you're going to throw it all out and teach those nerds what real art is.
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Mar 4, 2021 02:22
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Speaking of Spider-Man, is that series where Peter keeps the symbiote any good? I mean on one hand, I know Greg Land is poop incarnate. But I generally like Peter David's work.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:29
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I picked up ASM 50 for the Ross cover and then a second printing of 55 for the cover and noticed they were part of the same story. So I tracked down issues 51-54 and sat down to read them but I guess I was buying tie-ins? Like it’s 51LR, not the actual 51. The only “real” issue I got in that lot was 54. There’s nothing on the cover to indicate that these are only tie-ins, just some letters by the issue number. I’m incredibly disappointed by this.
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Mar 5, 2021 15:56
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I don't recall coming across that before. That's loving annoying. I know before they did "point" issues (eg, 51.1, 51.2), which were way more explicit, but functioned kinda the same way.
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Mar 5, 2021 16:38
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