|
Generations has basically the right feel/tone. It's just too bad they didn't/couldn't do some more rewrites.
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 03:06 |
|
|
The thing with Generations is that it’s pretty fun and individual scenes in it work well enough, but it could have been something really special if they had just drilled down on something for the movie to be about. They try to cram in B and C-plots with Data’s emotions and the Duras sisters that don’t really add anything except screen time for series regulars, when “Kirk meets Picard” is already a gigantic premise that overwhelms the whole movie. Imo it would have been better, if they absolutely HAD to put Kirk in there, to make the movie about Kirk, Picard and Soren and let everyone else go hang. a neat cape posted:Any scene with Kirk was great. Was he always that good? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 18:07
|
|
|
I also can't imagine Picard going down to deck 15 to fix the ship himself like Kirk did
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 18:19
|
|
|
Generations is fine as far as Star Trek films go (it's middle of the pack). The problem is that it could have been edited down to a regular TNG episode, and it just isn't remotely as gripping a story as All Good Things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 18:24
|
|
|
a neat cape posted:I also can't imagine Picard going down to deck 15 to fix the ship himself like Kirk did I mean, TOS basically had the main officers and then just the cannon fodder. tng was way better at showing the rest of the crew, and making it feel like there were things going on the ship outside of the main officers. Although it was a little silly that every away team had the entire chain of command.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
a neat cape posted:I also can't imagine Picard going down to deck 15 to fix the ship himself like Kirk did If he was on a half-completed ship with an inexperienced skeleton crew (that he wasn't actually in command of), I think he might.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 18:37
|
|
|
There was a perfect way to do a story where you could kill off Kirk and simultaneously pass the torch to the TNG crew. Unfortunately it's called Yesterday's Enterprise and it already existed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 18:45
|
|
|
There's also the fact that like All Good Things the perfect ending for the original crew already exists. "Second star to the right, and straight on til morning."
Eimi fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Mar 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 18:48
|
|
|
How are the novelisations of the Trek movies?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 20:25
|
|
|
Royal Updog posted:How are the novelisations of the Trek movies? From what I've heard, the Generations novel actually gives Soren a character
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 20:28
|
|
|
Troi sure looks lost on the bridge. Also, I just saw the two parter Unification. A very good one with a special guest! But I'm not sure if an invasion force of 2000 Romulans would be enough to conquer an entire planet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 20:30
|
|
|
I'm watching Caretaker right now and I'm pretty sure Janeway is a pitbull mom, which really would explain a hell of aloy
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 20:47
|
|
|
John F Bennett posted:Troi sure looks lost on the bridge. I'm sure those Romulans had plans to be super annoying to the Vulcans
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 20:47
|
|
|
John F Bennett posted:Troi sure looks lost on the bridge. I thought it was 2000 per transport, for 6000 Romulans. Enough to gather up heads of states, religious figures, etc., and hold them as hostages en masse, figuring that the Vulcans wouldn't have the gumption to put up a fight with that much of their culture at stake. Still, it stretches believability.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
Eimi posted:There's also the fact that like All Good Things the perfect ending for the original crew already exists. "Second star to the right, and straight on til morning." Yeah at the end of the day, even though it was kind of cool to see Kirk and Picard together, it just really wasn't necessary. (Studio executive logic aside.) I think if there had been like, 10 years since ST6, that would be a different story. Let the dust settle on that sendoff a little.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 20:58
|
|
|
I will give generations credit for adding some sweet lighting to the ship and for ILM using that beautiful 6 foot D model. Poor, poor, D. You got done dirty by that film. Reposting this cuz it’s cool: https://youtu.be/KL9czYi6UZk
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:00
|
|
|
jeeves posted:Poor, poor, D Don't doxx me, bro
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:02
|
|
|
I know everybody raves about the lighting in that film and certainly how they lit the show would not have worked for the movie but I still feel the ship was too drat dark to appreciate, especially with all the work they put in on the new bridge
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:03
|
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:Generations has basically the right feel/tone. It's just too bad they didn't/couldn't do some more rewrites. There just wasn't time. Paramount's order was for a movie to be in theaters by the holidays in 1994, so there was really a finite amount of time to get a script together. That's largely why Nimoy passed on directing the movie. Paramount badly wanted him (though Berman didn't, feeling that Nimoy would be difficult to control), but after he read the script, he felt there were fundamental issues with it, notably with the Nexus and its implementation (he brought up the "why the gently caress do Picard and Kirk go to Veridian III instead of just stopping Soran earlier" thing in a meeting, causing a collective "oh, poo poo" moment among Berman, Moore and Braga), and he didn't think those issues could be resolved without a substantial page-one rewrite. But to do so would have pushed the movie to sometime in 1995, Paramount wasn't willing to do that, and Nimoy then declined both the cameo appearance as well as the director's chair, having no real interest in directing a story that he hadn't developed. It's really kind of a miracle that Generations turned out as aggressively mediocre as it did, because there was a lot pushing against it and it very easily could have been a tire fire that put the idea of a TNG movie franchise into the dumpster.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
John F Bennett posted:Troi sure looks lost on the bridge. how about 200 romulan ships (that are all almost exactly the same) 
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
Timby posted:There just wasn't time. time is the fire in which we burn
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
tire is the fire: star trek disco
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
Axe-man posted:how about 200 romulan ships (that are all almost exactly the same) drat Mogai ruining Romulan ship design just like the Sovereign ruined Federation.  Take inspiration from the D'dex drat it!
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
Um the mogai can hold maybe 4 or 5 elite super secret troops per ship, check mate federation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
Admiralty Flag posted:I thought it was 2000 per transport, for 6000 Romulans. Enough to gather up heads of states, religious figures, etc., and hold them as hostages en masse, figuring that the Vulcans wouldn't have the gumption to put up a fight with that much of their culture at stake. Still, it stretches believability. "There were over 2000 troops on board those ships" implies a total. Even 6,000 is barely enough to take a city. Sneak attack regime changes are uncommon in history, but the Soviets rolled 80,000 into Afghanistan when they unexpectedly went in. And we all know what a disaster that was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
Sash! posted:"There were over 2000 troops on board those ships" implies a total. That's one of the more ham-fisted things in Unification II, an episode which is full of ham-fisted stuff. I think the idea was to suggest that Vulcan is so pacifist and unarmed that it could be conquered with a Trojan horse of 6,000 troops, but it's an idea that really falls to pieces when you think about it for more than a few seconds.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 22:42
|
|
|
Timby posted:That's one of the more ham-fisted things in Unification II, an episode which is full of ham-fisted stuff. I think the idea was to suggest that Vulcan is so pacifist and unarmed that it could be conquered with a Trojan horse of 6,000 troops, but it's an idea that really falls to pieces when you think about it for more than a few seconds. Hell there's also the fact that Vulcans are physically stronger than Romulans and have psychic powers, which are pretty big x factors when it comes to I don't know, defending your homeworld.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 22:52
|
|
|
Eimi posted:drat Mogai ruining Romulan ship design just like the Sovereign ruined Federation. This is why I love the Romulan designs from Star Trek: Armada, they’re all unique and creative have clear design lineage to the D’Deridex, and they pre-dated the Valdore by like two years so they weren’t ruined by John Eaves going into God Mode with his design work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 23:33
|
|
|
I'd also assume that the Romulans would have virtually no strategy that would work against the Vulcans. So, you beam down commando teams to specific locations like planetary defense control, communications nodes, highly placed government officials, critical infrastructure installations, and so on. You're only going to have a handful of troops, at best, for each of these. Presumably there are weapons on Vulcan, or even prepositioned Starfleet security personnel at critical locations. There will be an initial surprise as Romulans start materializing, but there will be an almost immediate response. Some insertion points may never reach their objective. Individual Vulcans, like the Mayor of Biggest Vulcan City, are going to be more than willing to sacrifice themselves in resistance. That takes them out of the argument as hostages or influences on the Vulcan population. Even as they gain control of certain targets, there's nothing to compel the Vulcans to unify with the Romulans. They can resist passively while the massively outnumbered Romulans await a Starfleet response. Starfleet is going to be able to mop up each individual team quite easily within a few days of their arrival. The Romulan strike package is basically dividing itself up for you and unable to support any other team. You're dealing with, say, 200 ten man teams. That's not much to deal with. The Romulan fleet can't blockade Vulcan or attempt to repel any Starfleet response without giving the Federation the green light to strike Romulan targets. The Klingons are already pissed about the Romulans manipulating the Klingon Civil War and they're not going to stay out of the fight if the Federation goes up against Romulus. The Romulan plan is, apparently, to start a war they cannot win with tactics that will fail?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 23:38
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:This is why I love the Romulan designs from Star Trek: Armada, they’re all unique and creative have clear design lineage to the D’Deridex, and they pre-dated the Valdore by like two years so they weren’t ruined by John Eaves going into God Mode with his design work. STO has a few good ones too. While it's mostly misses the Aelahl, Laeosa, and Ra'nodaire look pretty good.   
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
Timby posted:That's one of the more ham-fisted things in Unification II, an episode which is full of ham-fisted stuff. I think the idea was to suggest that Vulcan is so pacifist and unarmed that it could be conquered with a Trojan horse of 6,000 troops, but it's an idea that really falls to pieces when you think about it for more than a few seconds. I think a lot of it was just that, as often on Star Trek, the writers had no sense of scale.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 00:28
|
|
|
Tighclops posted:Dennis McCarthy's score for Generations was definitely better than his work on the show but fundamentally it's still mostly the same sonic wallpaper aside from the main theme and helps make the movie feel like a TV episode Ehhh, it's an alright score, it's not late-TNG sonic wallpaper. There are elements that are blah, but it's still a lot more dynamic compared to most of TNG and it got referenced at least a couple times in DS9 (Way of the Warrior, maybe also The Die is Cast?). Sash! posted:I'd also assume that the Romulans would have virtually no strategy that would work against the Vulcans. My bet is that it's not just 2000 troops - it's 2000 troops and a bunch of [tech] warheads, to (as someone else mentioned) take hostages with. The most generous reading, I think, would be that it's meant to cast doubt on the ability of the Federation to defend even its oldest member worlds: "Look, Romulan troops got hold of Vulcan, even if only for a time! What could they do to the more distant members or colonies?" As for the Klingons - I'm betting that a good chunk of their fleet was damaged or destroyed in the aftermath of their civil war. Between that and what, at that point in the series, was considered a major loss of Starfleet strength at Wolf 359, I'm wondering if the Romulans saw this as the last and best time they could make a really bold play before the Klingons and Federation built back up enough to be able to clobber them in short order. The Romulans were playing a pretty aggressive foreign policy in TNG and DS9; they were willing to start a fight in Federation space to retrieve a pilot who was infiltrating same space, they went to considerable length to bait Starfleet into thinking they were building an invasion base within the Neutral Zone, they kidnapped a Starfleet officer and brainwashed him into becoming an unwitting assassin, they ran weapons to the Duras faction and then threatened to start shooting if Starfleet didn't clear out of Klingon space, they (in one timeline) attacked and destroyed Deep Space Nine out of nowhere... yeah, honestly, between that and the Klingons/Feds being understrength, I could see them thinking that if they can knock the Feds off balance by holding millions of innocent Vulcans hostage, it'd be a great time to roll the dice on a hot war with the Federation and the Klingons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 00:58
|
|
|
Those nacelles really remind me of the Dominion cruisers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 01:01
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:I think a lot of it was just that, as often on Star Trek, the writers had no sense of scale. but yeah, this was likely a big part of it too
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 01:06
|
|
|
The First Contact theme is one of the best themes in Trek bar none
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 01:10
|
|
|
Eimi posted:STO has a few good ones too. While it's mostly misses the Aelahl, Laeosa, and Ra'nodaire look pretty good. I like my lil Ar'kif. A cool small size warbird.  They also did their best to redeem the scimitar but, y'know, there are limits. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Those nacelles really remind me of the Dominion cruisers. Now that you point it out, I can't unsee it. MikeJF posted:I like my lil Ar'kif. A cool small size warbird. The Ar'kif is solid, it gets away what I consider a sin of most of their larger ships, where the nose is just decorative and doesn't have lights all around it. That's what makes the D'dex and ones I linked stand out and feel Romulan to me. And yes the Scimitar is an abomination that's just not possible to salvage and I hate that they made it the Republic flagship.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 01:38
|
|
|
If Romulans are so smart how come the smartest of the smart of them couldn't see a glowing red WMD on the table right in front of them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhFkkNn7CdU
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
happyhippy posted:If Romulans are so smart how come the smartest of the smart of them couldn't see a glowing red WMD on the table right in front of them? Romulans are all color blind. It's not something they like admitting, but....
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 03:06 |
|
|
happyhippy posted:If Romulans are so smart how come the smartest of the smart of them couldn't see a glowing red WMD on the table right in front of them? Have you seen how our senate acts? The smartest Romulans are miles away from that building.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2021 02:11
|
|