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Something else I enjoy about the P5 cast's personas is how much they stick to the idea of being masks--not just because they take the form of physical masks, but also in what they represent. In many cases, a character's starting persona has them weaponizing how other people see them--Joker as a criminal, Ryuji as a violent loose cannon, Ann as a seductress, etc. In other cases, the starting personas are how the character wants others to see them, like Morgana with Zorro or Akechi with Robin Hood, an even more conscious mask.
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Mar 4, 2021 05:39
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Harrow posted:Something else I enjoy about the P5 cast's personas is how much they stick to the idea of being masks--not just because they take the form of physical masks, but also in what they represent. In many cases, a character's starting persona has them weaponizing how other people see them--Joker as a criminal, Ryuji as a violent loose cannon, Ann as a seductress, etc. In other cases, the starting personas are how the character wants others to see them, like Morgana with Zorro or Akechi with Robin Hood, an even more conscious mask. Yeah this honestly is a much better read, even if the theme remains this is the point. Haru gets to have Milady who is a pretty face with a violent gunshow, Makoto is the woman pope who has to be perfect and hide her true self to lead. I also like that the third tier is the person behind the mask, the actor/performer/real person empowered by their divine second tier. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 05:43
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Harrow posted:Akechi with Robin Hood, an even more conscious mask. I think you can make a case that Robin Hood is his own view of himself, He's just so twisted that he views himself, orphaned and neglected as the poor and the rest of well adjusted society as the rich whom he must rob of all their possessions
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Mar 4, 2021 05:45
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Lord_Magmar posted:Yeah this honestly is a much better read, even if the theme remains this is the point. Haru gets to have Milady who is a pretty face with a violent gunshow, Makoto is the woman pope who has to be perfect and hide her true self to lead. yeah it was really cool to have the second tier be something different with the idea of "this is the real me" and then the third actually goes back to the first by accepting that how others see you is actually an integral part of who you are and that rejecting it completely for the idea of the "inner self" is just as juvenile as being completely trapped and defined by others
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Mar 4, 2021 05:54
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Gaius Marius posted:I think you can make a case that Robin Hood is his own view of himself, He's just so twisted that he views himself, orphaned and neglected as the poor and the rest of well adjusted society as the rich whom he must rob of all their possessions Another possibility I thought about : Akechi has the wild card. Is Robin Hood the persona he got from his social link with Joker? It's an out-there interpretation that isn't really close to canon or anything, but especially in Royal, there is something sincere in his relationship with Joker. Akechi is defined by his lack of bonds with others, unlike Joker, but if he does have a bond with Joker, maybe that's what let him manifest Robin Hood.
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Mar 4, 2021 06:10
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That would make Joker the Justice link for Akechi. Not sure if that fits.
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Mar 4, 2021 06:28
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Harrow posted:Another possibility I thought about : Akechi has the wild card. Is Robin Hood the persona he got from his social link with Joker? My gut tell's me that Robinhood is in some ways his "True" persona and Loki is a messiah situation where it represent's him, but isn't actually him, I have zero evidence for this however Cloacamazing! posted:That would make Joker the Justice link for Akechi. Not sure if that fits. I do think this fits well though If Goro is a sort of Reverse Justice even if he is associated with the law and order side of things, Joker can be the True Justice, bringing commupence to all evildoers even those normally shielded from such things
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Mar 4, 2021 06:39
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Herewald's base looks much more like Robin Hood, so I'm calling it his 'original' Persona. I'm assuming that he used Loki much more though once he got it especially for his crimes.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:00
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Loki is the Persona that lets him drive other Shadows insane, which is absolutely something given to him by Yaldabaoth imo, Robin Hood is definitely his non-corrupt/realish Persona. It's the mask he wears from the world, but that mask is in part who he wishes himself to be and presents himself as until it all comes crashing down and all that's left is the monster destroyed by society. Neither is actually Akechi though, because Akechi has never accepted his Shadow, Yaldabaoth gave him the powers of the Persona same as how the protagonist got it from "Igor". Robin Hood is reflective of his personal projected image, but also is a featherman super hero because that's who he wants to be. Robin Hood is also what society sees Akechi as, same as Joker and being a criminal (Arsene) Ann being a seductive man-eater (Carmen) Ryuji being a violent brute (Captain Kidd) so on and so forth. I don't actually know if Akechi canonically has the Wild Card, it's possible Yaldabaoth simply allowed him to weild two Personas or he legitimately has one and doesn't have a strong enough bond to form anything besides Loki and Robin Hood. However given that he also doesn't take other Persona the way a Wild Card does, I'm gonna say instead of the Wild Card he's got multiple Persona and the ability to drive other shadows insane instead of taking them into himself. Perhaps Robin Hood is his bond with Sae, as they're theoretically friends based on their scenes. Honestly I think Persona 5 really has an incredible amount of work done on the party members and their Personas, which is why the scenes where that breaks for hijinks can be so frustrating. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 07:00
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Yaldy didn't give Joker anything besides the App, right? Joker awakened to Arsene on his own. Sure makes it seem more and more like a 'rigged game' where Akechi just had more cards in his deck from the start.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:02
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Based on what he says the root of his obsession is, I'm pretty sure that Joker is the Strength link for Akechi Which makes sense since IIRC Strength and Justice are complimentary arcana.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:02
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Fojar38 posted:Based on what he says the root of his obsession is, I'm pretty sure that Joker is the Strength link for Akechi This actually is a neat theory about the situation. I wonder what link Sae would be for Akechi then perhaps the Empress to match Makoto for Joker, Shido is probably one too, maybe The Tower for Shido?
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Mar 4, 2021 07:06
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Talking about Loki's insanity abilities, They really missed a chance to give him the ability to inflict an insanity effect on you're party members during the fight, something like Varin's hunger ability Fun fact Varin is voiced by the father of Bryce Pappenbrook who did Theo, never knew that
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Mar 4, 2021 07:06
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I figure that Akechi only has Robin Hood and Loki because unlike every other Wild Card, he has no genuine connections beyond Joker. And I assume that Philemon was stone drunk when handing out the Wild Cards this time.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:08
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Funky Valentine posted:I figure that Akechi only has Robin Hood and Loki because unlike every other Wild Card, he has no genuine connections beyond Joker. If anything Akechi has probably gotten a Nyarlthotep Wild Card. Given the game between Yaldabaoth and Igor is somewhat similar to Philemon and Nyarlthotep, plus Yaldaboath and Akechi's insanity is super red and black coloured.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:09
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I'm hoping if/when they do P6, they shake up the cast members' Arcana a bit more. Every game from P3-on we've had Magician/Priestess/Emperor/Chariot/Lovers. Empress, Hierophant and Justice have also always been major characters if not playable. Give us someone from Temperance or Hanged Man or something to shake it up a bit.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:11
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ApplesandOranges posted:I'm hoping if/when they do P6, they shake up the cast members' Arcana a bit more. Every game from P3-on we've had Magician/Priestess/Emperor/Chariot/Lovers. Empress, Hierophant and Justice have also always been major characters if not playable. Give us someone from Temperance or Hanged Man or something to shake it up a bit. Maximum dysfunction persona where your party is like moon, tower, devil and death or something  My random small persona idea: It'd be neat if you had minor arcana s. links to represent groups like your classmates, coworkers, neighbours, regulars at your favorite resteraunt or whatever. They could give a small amount of the regular bonus to several arcana or something.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:35
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Speaking of Devil I initially assumed it was P5's thematic card the same way Death was for P3 (due to the multiple references to being a slave in chains, the seven sins motifs, Satanael, or just the Thieves having a superficially shadier criminal affect compared to their more wholesome predecessors), but apparently it's Star:https://skyflyinginaction.tumblr.com/post/157190194689/neni-could-you-please-comment-about-hashino/amp posted:Persona 5 is the Arcana #17, “The Star”, the theme of rising up from “ruin” into “hope”. In the planning phase of the games, I made source to thoroughly follow this concept, but I haven’t really ever spoken about this before. I just feel like the Arcana are applicable to all these different eras (of me producing video games), which is something that can really be felt, and this sort of universal interpretation of it just intruiges me. Guess it doesn't go as hard as Catherine with the "temptation" aspect. Or just that the meanings of the cards are flexible enough that you can fudge themes that way. Funky Valentine posted:And I assume that Philemon was stone drunk when handing out the Wild Cards this time. It's fun trying to imagine how much was planned as part of the "game" if you don't just handwave the coincidences away. Was Joker chosen before or after Shido's "assault"? What about Sojiro taking him in, Morgana being in Kamoshida's palace, Futaba's story in general, or Haru showing up just as Shido's faction was nudging the Thieves to go after Okumura? Ultimately it's pretty meaningless speculation over the necessary contrivances of the plot but it could have given the conspiracy aspects and the reveal over Yaldabaoth some additional oomph. Acerbatus posted:Maximum dysfunction persona where your party is like moon, tower, devil and death or something Funky Student has a real Arcana, in my heart. 
YaketySass fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 08:01
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I can't wait for p5 to come to the PC so I can read all those spoilers.
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Mar 4, 2021 13:36
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ApplesandOranges posted:Herewald's base looks much more like Robin Hood, so I'm calling it his 'original' Persona. I'm assuming that he used Loki much more though once he got it especially for his crimes. Yeah, I think this makes more sense than my theory. Hereward being an evolved form of Robin Hood points to Robin Hood being Akechi's real persona, probably for the reasons Gaius Marius pointed out (it is how he sees himself). Lord_Magmar posted:If anything Akechi has probably gotten a Nyarlthotep Wild Card. Given the game between Yaldabaoth and Igor is somewhat similar to Philemon and Nyarlthotep, plus Yaldaboath and Akechi's insanity is super red and black coloured. This seems possible as well. (P5 and P4 spoilers here) I thought about Akechi's potential Wild Card because of Adachi, who I think explicitly does have the same power as Narukami, but never formed any bonds, so he only has Magatsu-Izanagi and nothing else. Akechi similarly rejects the idea of friends or teammates or forging a genuine connection with anyone (even if he can't help but genuinely connect with Joker on some level), so if he does have some form of the Wild Card, it'd explain his inability to take in new personas or fuse them. He's not about to negotiate with shadows, for one thing. That said, I think the hypothesis that Joker has a Philemon-style Wild Card and Akechi has a Nyarlathotep-style fits. P5R did bring back some of the explicitly Lovecraftian elements. Something I'm not clearly remembering, though: is the Wild Card a power that's given to you, or something you have naturally? Are the P3, P4, and P5 protagonists given Wild Cards by Igor (and/or Philemon by proxy), or do they already have that potential and simply need to awaken to their personas to unlock it? We know that (P5 and P4 again) Yaldabaoth gave Joker and Akechi the nav, and Izanami gave several people the power to enter the TV world, but did they also give them the power of personas?
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Mar 4, 2021 14:52
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ApplesandOranges posted:Yaldy didn't give Joker anything besides the App, right? Joker awakened to Arsene on his own. Yaldy at least implies that he gave Joker the Third Eye. It's also the rank 2 confidant ability - and not something the other protagonists have.
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Mar 4, 2021 15:50
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The Wild Card is given, but like much of Persona it seems that it’s a bit of circuitous logic. They’re chosen to sign the contract and become the wild card because they have the potential to sign the contract and become the wild card. But it is explicitly from signing the contract with the Velvet Room, or an equivalent source of power and fusion capabilities. Persona 5 end game Yaldabaoth may not be able to grant the wild card, that in fact may have been given by Lavenza as she ultimately does all the fusion in the game, through Caroline and Justine. It is explicit that you need to form bonds to empower and use the Wild Card though. Notably Sho Minazuki from Arena refused the contract and does not have the power of the Wild Card. As for actual Persona 4 Adachi does not have the wild card, his power that he shares with the protagonist is taking people into the TV World, Taro Namatame also has it, because all 3 were marked by Izanami as her potential Izanagi. What is interesting is because of this Yu Narukami enters the Velvet Room before signing the contract, even though signing the contract is a condition of entry and access to the fusion powers, which hints at the circuitous logic of being the wild card because you will be the wild card. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 15:54
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Lord_Magmar posted:Notably Sho Minazuki from Arena refused the contract and does not have the power of the Wild Card. As for actual Persona 4 Adachi does not have the wild card, his power that he shares with the protagonist is taking people into the TV World, Taro Namatame also has it, because all 3 were marked by Izanami as her potential Izanagi. What is interesting is because of this Yu Narukami enters the Velvet Room before signing the contract, even though signing the contract is a condition of entry and access to the fusion powers, which hints at the circuitous logic of being the wild card because you will be the wild card. Huh, I could've sworn Adachi did have the wild card. I guess that means he must have confronted his own shadow and accepted it to get Magatsu-Izanagi, going by the rules of the TV World? My assumption was that the reason Yu doesn't need to confront his shadow is because of his wild card potential, but maybe that's off.
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Mar 4, 2021 15:58
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Harrow posted:Huh, I could've sworn Adachi did have the wild card. I guess that means he must have confronted his own shadow and accepted it to get Magatsu-Izanagi, going by the rules of the TV World? My assumption was that the reason Yu doesn't need to confront his shadow is because of his wild card potential, but maybe that's off. I mean Namatame was granted the potential to be Izanagi (enter the TV World and take people in) and failed to do awaken Izanagi, so Adachi must have done so. As a guess, Namatame would have been blue Izanagi, themed around his sadness after leaving the underworld, in contrast to Adachi being anger at the things he finds hideous and Yu being acceptance of reality and the truth ofother people. Namatame locks people in the TV World/Underworld, Adachi wishes to destroy people for fun and uses the TV World/Underworld as a weapon to do so, Yu goes deep into the TV World/Underworld sees the ugly truth of the people who he is saving and saves them regardless. The whole thing is very referential to Izanagi and Izanami’s actual myth. Being the wild card likely does mean Yu skips facing himself, but being Izanagi capable does not remove your shadow as Namatame shows.
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Mar 4, 2021 16:05
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mean Namatame was granted the potential to be Izanagi (enter the TV World and take people in) and failed to do awaken Izanagi, so Adachi must have done so. As a guess, Namatame would have been blue Izanagi, themed around his sadness after leaving the underworld, in contrast to Adachi being anger at the things he finds hideous and Yu being acceptance of reality and the truth ofother people. Namatame locks people in the TV World/Underworld, Adachi wishes to destroy people for fun and uses the TV World/Underworld as a weapon to do so, Yu goes deep into the TV World/Underworld sees the ugly truth of the people who he is saving and saves them regardless. The whole thing is very referential to Izanagi and Izanami’s actual myth. Being the wild card likely does mean Yu skips facing himself, but being Izanagi capable does not remove your shadow as Namatame shows. That's sort of why I was wondering about Adachi. Namatame clearly does still have a shadow (and never awoke to his version of Izanagi). Did Adachi have to face himself to gain his Izanagi persona, or did it awaken like Yu's, skipping the face-your-shadow part? It'd be interesting if Adachi had to face his shadow to gain Magatsu-Izanagi and managed to do so without a fight. I guess the other possibility is that the ability to straight-up awaken Izanagi without confronting your shadow is an Izanagi thing and not a wild card thing.
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Mar 4, 2021 16:13
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HootTheOwl posted:I can't wait for p5 to come to the PC so I can read all those spoilers.
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Mar 4, 2021 17:52
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Several of those spoilers are for P4, you could play the game on PC right now and read much of them. Also Persona 5 on PC is several years away more than likely.
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Mar 4, 2021 18:30
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Harrow posted:That's sort of why I was wondering about Adachi. Namatame clearly does still have a shadow (and never awoke to his version of Izanagi). Did Adachi have to face himself to gain his Izanagi persona, or did it awaken like Yu's, skipping the face-your-shadow part? It'd be interesting if Adachi had to face his shadow to gain Magatsu-Izanagi and managed to do so without a fight. I guess the other possibility is that the ability to straight-up awaken Izanagi without confronting your shadow is an Izanagi thing and not a wild card thing. Have we ever seen the Persona awakening of a "villain" character?
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Mar 4, 2021 18:49
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So I just completed the color bridge puzzle in Maruki’s Palace I have to be near the end right? I’m really enjoying the extra content of the third semester, but also I’m 130 hours into P5R and...I’m starting to burn out a little, but goddamn I am determined to finish it before moving on to a different game... ...which will probably be Persona 4G lol.
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Mar 4, 2021 18:52
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Yeah you're getting up there. Obviously there's a lot of cutscenes and the fights go on a bit but you are very close.
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Mar 4, 2021 18:54
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HootTheOwl posted:I can't wait for p5 to come to the PC so I can read all those spoilers. Can't believe people are talking about persona in the persona thread. Shouldn't be allowed!
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Mar 4, 2021 21:44
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Lord_Magmar posted:Several of those spoilers are for P4, you could play the game on PC right now and read much of them. Also Persona 5 on PC is several years away more than likely. I thought it was coming to the epic games store on the 30th?
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Mar 4, 2021 23:12
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Acerbatus posted:Can't believe people are talking about persona in the persona thread. I'm being serious. I can't wait. I want to play it now.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:13
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Harrow posted:Huh, I could've sworn Adachi did have the wild card. I guess that means he must have confronted his own shadow and accepted it to get Magatsu-Izanagi, going by the rules of the TV World? My assumption was that the reason Yu doesn't need to confront his shadow is because of his wild card potential, but maybe that's off. I believe he does and it's made more explicit in P4G where his socal link is the Jester. And the Jester is like the joker, which is wild. The number on the jester arcana is also zero, and Igor tells us that the wildcard is like the number zero. Empty and full of possibility. He only becomes the Hunger when you realize his failures E: even more. HootTheOwl fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 23:15
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HootTheOwl posted:I thought it was coming to the epic games store on the 30th? I believe that was a fake article, there's no actual source involved.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:18
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S.J. posted:I believe that was a fake article, there's no actual source involved. Devistating.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:21
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I've been playing P5R, just got to August. So far I’ll say I really like Kasumi and Maruki’s additions to the game. Maruki especially, I like seeing scenes with the main cast that don’t involve the MC. Akechi’s social link has been pretty fun too so far. One I think I wish Royal DID do was integrate Haru into the story earlier. I think she’s been in a couple extra scenes but I think they could have done a lot more. As an aside, it's staggering to me that SIU Director never even gets a proper name. It makes no sense that someone who is so integral to the plot is just known was “profession name”. That’s like, funky student background-character tier naming.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:49
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I dunno what the crossover on Persona fans and Broadway musical fans is like but spoilers for an awakening scene in Strikers like half of the dialogue in Zenkichi awakening as Valjean is straight up lyrics from one of Valjean’s songs in the Les Mis musical, appropriately titled “Who Am I?” give it a listen if you aren’t familiar with the show! https://youtube.com/watch?v=uWIdEooF49U
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Mar 4, 2021 23:50
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:One I think I wish Royal DID do was integrate Haru into the story earlier. I think she’s been in a couple extra scenes but I think they could have done a lot more. I wish they'd rewritten Haru's confidant to work more like Kasumi and Akechi's. They could've had the first three or four ranks unlock during the summer or something and treat her a bit like Kasumi: you know she's going to be important to the story one day, but for now she's just someone who goes to your school who you hang out with. Then it locks at rank 3 or 4 until after the fifth Palace (which is when the confidant starts in the game as released), at which point it tells a slightly-condensed version of the story that's there now. It would've helped let you get to know Haru a little sooner, while also providing sort of "cover" for Kasumi and Akechi as story characters whose confidants start before their big story importance kicks in.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:55
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:
Yea I think this is a common complaint. I was well behind on maxing out my confidants by November and, unfortunately, I ended up neglecting Haru. Even now well into the extra Royal bonus content I only have Haru ranked 3 or 4. Also it was funny because her confidant is all about growing vegetables so there I am helping her grow tomatoes in the middle of....January.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:14
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