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I typically see Galahad as an extension of Lancelot’s problems, tbh
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Mar 4, 2021 19:37
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Well, he was the product of Lancelot's problematic extension.
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Mar 4, 2021 19:45
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Lancelot IIRC, lives out the rest of his life as a hermit monk, just as Guinevere lives out the rest of her life in a monastery. I don't think either of them die in battle in the traditional stories, but I could be mistaken, it has been a long time since I was a child and super into Arthurian legend.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:25
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thetoughestbean posted:I typically see Galahad as an extension of Lancelot’s problems, tbh To me he's so much worse. He was created like fuckin 200 years after the last most recent iteration on the story by the guy retranslating the legend, he supplanted the previous guy who found the grail to be the guy who REALLY found the grail, and was given a bunch of feats that were previously attributed to other knights of the round table and generally inserted into every single important moment, and constantly pointed out to be the best of all the knights at everything as well as the most virtuous. He's loving ridiculous. At least Lancelot had character flaws and like, pathos involving having to choose between love and loyalty. It's like if I rewrote the iliad and added a soldier named Lurdiakes who is better than Achilles and helps him at every turn and wins the war for the Achaeans. Gologle posted:Lancelot IIRC, lives out the rest of his life as a hermit monk, just as Guinevere lives out the rest of her life in a monastery. I don't think either of them die in battle in the traditional stories, but I could be mistaken, it has been a long time since I was a child and super into Arthurian legend. There's not exactly a definitive Arthurian legend. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 01:34
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Eh, Malory is close enough, since he assembled and cobbled together several of the French and English legends.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:46
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Lurdiak posted:a soldier named Lurdiakes who is better than Achilles and helps him at every turn and wins the war for the Achaeans. the sensational character find of 850 BCE!!
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Mar 5, 2021 01:52
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Galahad was an idiot for not sticking around for the oral sex.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:54
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I'll say this, one of my favorite things in the world is set of murals Edwin Austin Abbey did for the Boston Public Library in the 1890s, showing various scenes from the grail legend, and in my mind the greatest one is Galahad receiving the grail: IIRC, Abbey had to fight a bit to get the precise placement he wanted for these pictures-- he wanted some, like this one, to be shrouded or disclosed a bit by natural light at various points of the day. It's really something to see in person if you are ever in Boston once things are opened again. I am also quite interested whenever a poet I like has taken up Galahad as a subject, especially because from the 19th century onwards this paradox of a guy who is inhumanly pious and saintly but also despite all that a human made a lot of writer's heads short-circuit. Tennyson does a beautiful job even if he keeps changing his mind.... when he wrote about Galahad as a fairly young man, he shows the knight as cocksure, pompous, very self-satisfied in his sanctity. When he returns to the same subject decades later in Idylls of the King Galahad appears melancholy, almost crushed under the weight of his obligations. William Morris' take, also from the 19th century, is heartbreaking to me. His Galahad is a psychologically realistic figure who is torn up by his partial awareness of himself as an ideal. One of my favorite 20th century poets, Jack Spicer, wrote a very weird, funny book in 1962 called The Holy Grail. He does not have a lot of patience for Galahad, but this little bit has always stuck with me. It's one of those little scraps I can just reel off from the top of my head: quote:The Grail was merely a cannibal pot
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Mar 5, 2021 02:11
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Push El Burrito posted:Galahad was an idiot for not sticking around for the oral sex. Galahad? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYDw25-RT5U Edit: With bonus background reactions from Neil Gaiman. muscles like this! fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 02:26
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Doesn't Arthur end up in a barrow somewhere with Excalibur and the Holy Grail awaiting The End Times?
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Mar 5, 2021 02:31
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Infinitum posted:Doesn't Arthur end up in a barrow somewhere with Excalibur and the Holy Grail awaiting The End Times? That or he ends up on a boat on the way to Avalon.
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Mar 5, 2021 02:55
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I believe I've said this before, but there is no mythology more ripe for a sprawling story-rich action-rpg in the vein of The Witcher than Arthurian legend. Think of all the awesome knights you could hang out with and go on completely implausible adventures with. There are enough blank spots and contradictions within the stories that you can easily take creative liberties without betraying the spirit of things, too, because the spirit is "a bunch of people threw their ideas into this giant melting pot of contradictory theologies and values". The ideal point of view character would probably be Percival, since he has fairly humble origins and is relatively young but ultimately ends up being the only one of the knights who finds the grail. I'd make the thang ding myself if it was at all feasible to undertake such a project on the indie scale. How Wonderful! posted:I'll say this, one of my favorite things in the world is set of murals Edwin Austin Abbey did for the Boston Public Library in the 1890s, showing various scenes from the grail legend, and in my mind the greatest one is Galahad receiving the grail: Galahad needs that Captain America/Superman layer where their awareness of their status weighs on them to be interesting. If he's merely perfect knightly virtue embodied there's very little to him as a person, and all he does is detract from the gripping foibles and tragic humanity of the myriad other characters.
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Mar 5, 2021 03:06
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Lurdiak posted:I believe I've said this before, but there is no mythology more ripe for a sprawling story-rich action-rpg in the vein of The Witcher than Arthurian legend. Think of all the awesome knights you could hang out with and go on completely implausible adventures with. There are enough blank spots and contradictions within the stories that you can easily take creative liberties without betraying the spirit of things, too, because the spirit is "a bunch of people threw their ideas into this giant melting pot of contradictory theologies and values". Old-school game design Chris Crawford worked on a game concept forever that was a social sim of Camelot where all of the characters had personalities that interacted off each other. The idea was that the player would be dropped into the setting and emergent scenarios would occur in reaction to their behavior. It would have been something kind of similar to The Sims slamming into Crusader Kings. He never managed to turn it into something worth playing, though.
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Mar 5, 2021 04:00
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It's a tangent from this tangent but I hope you're all reading Gillen's Once & Future which is basically this conversation in comic book form, albeit with more gun-wielding British grannies.
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Mar 5, 2021 04:57
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Chinston Wurchill posted:It's a tangent from this tangent but I hope you're all reading Gillen's Once & Future which is basically this conversation in comic book form, albeit with more gun-wielding British grannies.
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Mar 5, 2021 06:30
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muscles like this! posted:Galahad? Thanks for sharing that. I'm not sure why, but sometimes a person laughing at their own humor is charming and sometimes it's insufferable. This was the former.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:40
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thetoughestbean posted:Not really? Manga is nerd poo poo, in the same way that comics are nerd poo poo in the West. It’s not like Japan or other parts of Asia don’t have their own rich literary traditions. Yes, they do and the bizarreness of manga and anime are less surprising in light of the rich Japanese literary traditions of bunraku/kabuki which can get pretty bizarre.
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Mar 5, 2021 09:29
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Elissimpark posted:Yes, they do and the bizarreness of manga and anime are less surprising in light of the rich Japanese literary traditions of bunraku/kabuki which can get pretty bizarre. I think you're sort of folding a really long and varied history of a country's creative works in half and making random bits touch there. The gonzo experimentation of modern manga and anime has a lot more to do with attempts to stand out in an increasingly overcrowded market than it has to do with kabuki tradition. You don't have to go very far back into the quite young history of anime to find eras where most of the products were very safe and standard compared to the weird poo poo you can see today or even in the 90s (when deconstructing genres became quite the fad).
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Mar 5, 2021 10:26
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Lurdiak posted:I think you're sort of folding a really long and varied history of a country's creative works in half and making random bits touch there. The gonzo experimentation of modern manga and anime has a lot more to do with attempts to stand out in an increasingly overcrowded market than it has to do with kabuki tradition. You don't have to go very far back into the quite young history of anime to find eras where most of the products were very safe and standard compared to the weird poo poo you can see today or even in the 90s (when deconstructing genres became quite the fad). I'm not saying that the entirety of Japanese literature is weird or that any weirdness in historical Japanese literature is directly responsible for the weirdness in Japanese manga and anime, more that there seems to a greater cultural acceptance of that kind of weirdness than in the English canon. The oddness you sometimes see in kabuki or bunraku was probably driven by similar factors to those that you mention - kabuki and bunraku, I understand, were the entertainment for the masses; the fancy people sat through Noh plays.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:03
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Elissimpark posted:I'm not saying that the entirety of Japanese literature is weird or that any weirdness in historical Japanese literature is directly responsible for the weirdness in Japanese manga and anime, more that there seems to a greater cultural acceptance of that kind of weirdness than in the English canon. The oddness you sometimes see in kabuki or bunraku was probably driven by similar factors to those that you mention - kabuki and bunraku, I understand, were the entertainment for the masses; the fancy people sat through Noh plays. But what plays did the fancy people in Japanese society sit through?
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Mar 5, 2021 13:10
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Are we still talking about King Arthur, because everyone should be reading Once and Future, which is mainly about how the old tales are far more horrible than we tell them.    There's also a sequence where a bunch of Britain First style racists get killed by zombie King Arthur for being Anglo-Saxons instead of true Celts
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Mar 5, 2021 14:23
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The Question IRL posted:But what plays did the fancy people in Japanese society sit through? Boo.
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Mar 5, 2021 16:06
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Are we still talking about King Arthur, because everyone should be reading Once and Future, which is mainly about how the old tales are far more horrible than we tell them. Once and Future #1  As corny as it is, I'm always a sucker for that kind of line.
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Mar 6, 2021 06:52
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Elissimpark posted:Yes, they do and the bizarreness of manga and anime are less surprising in light of the rich Japanese literary traditions of bunraku/kabuki which can get pretty bizarre. I don’t know if traditional Japanese stories/storytelling are any more bizarre than traditional stories anywhere else, it’s just we don’t have the cultural context/familiarity for it
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Mar 6, 2021 18:24
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King Arthur for sure died either on his way to Avalon or on his way back, because there's no way things haven't gotten bad enough in the world for him to return by now. < >
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Mar 6, 2021 18:57
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thetoughestbean posted:I don’t know if traditional Japanese stories/storytelling are any more bizarre than traditional stories anywhere else, it’s just we don’t have the cultural context/familiarity for it Yeah, imagine hearing like Hansel and Gretel for the first time, as an adult.
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Mar 6, 2021 21:36
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JordanKai posted:King Arthur for sure died either on his way to Avalon or on his way back, because there's no way things haven't gotten bad enough in the world for him to return by now. < He popped back once and realized he was early and apologized, and now feels a bit awkward about trying again.
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Mar 6, 2021 22:49
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John Dyne posted:He popped back once and realized he was early and apologized, and now feels a bit awkward about trying again. Just like Jesus!
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Mar 6, 2021 23:39
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JordanKai posted:King Arthur for sure died either on his way to Avalon or on his way back, because there's no way things haven't gotten bad enough in the world for him to return by now. < He’s only focused on Britain. Do you think he’d support Brexit?
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Mar 7, 2021 01:24
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thetoughestbean posted:He’s only focused on Britain. Once and Future Arthur 100% would.
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Mar 7, 2021 01:26
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Are we still talking about King Arthur, because everyone should be reading Once and Future, which is mainly about how the old tales are far more horrible than we tell them. This is awesome
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Mar 8, 2021 02:34
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Kill Six Billion Demons, Fabulously Badass 
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Mar 18, 2021 22:06
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mad, mad respect for the intricately designed form Allison/Cio had for two whole pages, and will probably never be shown again
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Mar 18, 2021 22:14
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Flesh Forge posted:mad, mad respect for the intricately designed form Allison/Cio had for two whole pages, and will probably never be shown again didn't they do the fusion thing for a good stretch of the tournament arc?
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Mar 18, 2021 22:17
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The best part is Abbadon's alt-text complaint for the blue ali-cio form: "Very happy for a while I no longer had to draw this design, but joke's on me, I am a fool" Then for this page: "Man Catastrophically Owns Himself by Replacing Complicated Character Design with Even More Complicated Character Design"
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Mar 18, 2021 22:27
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That triple form is so loving rad
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Mar 18, 2021 22:27
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LordSaturn posted:didn't they do the fusion thing for a good stretch of the tournament arc? Oops, you're right, that was a very big deal too   
Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 00:25
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Started reading K6BD for the first time this week after having it saved in my bookmarks for years. Pretty cool so far but still waiting to get to the real combat. It's funny reading through the comments on each post and seeing a guy from Image even very early on offering to publish.
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Mar 19, 2021 00:27
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Balon posted:That triple form is so loving rad there are 3s everywhere on it 
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Mar 19, 2021 00:30
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It is so good. This last chapter has been complete insanity, and I'm here for every moment. Going to be incredibly sad when this end.
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Mar 19, 2021 00:40
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