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Lungboy posted:The next leadership battle will be Phillips vs Reeves vs Nandy. Someone from the left will get on - the SCG have enough people to get someone on the ballot barring a rules change (which is not out of the question) The real battle will again be for the soft left membership and the waverers in the PLP
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Mar 5, 2021 11:31
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I'm still laughing at this after a full morning of going back and replaying it. It's *perfect*
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Mar 5, 2021 11:36
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:You could say hypocrisy is the favorite elite sport.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:39
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Can anyone explain what all the money going into Test & Trace is actually being spent on? I'm struggling to find anything that really goes into it. Giving the Tories enough benefit of the doubt that they aren't just shovelling banknotes into a furnace, from the outside it's hard to conceptually understand what £37bn can possibly be spent on? That's a third of the operating budget of the entire NHS that employs 1.3m people and has wildly high capex requirements. As many £1,000 a day consultants as you can find won't cost £37bn. Is it just a huge provision for mass testing over the next decade or something?
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Mar 5, 2021 11:43
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peanut- posted:Giving the Tories enough benefit of the doubt that they aren't just shovelling banknotes into a furnace, It's this. But the furnace is their donors and Eton mates.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:47
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peanut- posted:Can anyone explain what all the money going into Test & Trace is actually being spent on? I'm struggling to find anything that really goes into it. you get to £4.1bn by doing 2,300 consultants at £7,000 a day 5 days a week for 52 weeks. I assume they all have to be expensing stays in 5* London hotels and ubering/ubereatsing daily as well but yeah spaffing £37bn on poo poo that doesn't work takes some real effort
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Mar 5, 2021 11:57
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peanut- posted:Can anyone explain what all the money going into Test & Trace is actually being spent on?
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Mar 5, 2021 11:57
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Testing and tracing your cocaine is important otherwise you get all kinds of livestock antihelmintics, which are fatal to Michael Gove.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:00
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Doccykins posted:you get to £4.1bn by doing 2,300 consultants at £7,000 a day 5 days a week for 52 weeks. I assume they all have to be expensing stays in 5* London hotels and ubering/ubereatsing daily as well but yeah spaffing £37bn on poo poo that doesn't work takes some real effort There's some very dodgy maths in that article, no consultant doing anything is costing £7k a day. I'm genuinely curious because you can piss away hundreds of millions on poo poo overpriced consultants, but you can't spend £37bn. You need an infrastructure on the scale of the NHS or MOD to spend that much. There must be some staggeringly massive capital expenditure or staff requirement, I just can't find anything that explains what it is.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:10
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peanut- posted:There's some very dodgy maths in that article, no consultant doing anything is costing £7k a day. Why do you think it's being spent on things rather than transferred out of government accounts into private accounts and so it is 'spent'?
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Mar 5, 2021 12:13
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namesake posted:Why do you think it's being spent on things rather than transferred out of government accounts into private accounts and so it is 'spent'? It's literally this. You can't explain how the money is being spent because it isn't being spent. The Tories are simply looting the country and using the pandemic to cover it up. Hence their pandemic strategy, which is prolonging the crisis because the longer it goes on and the worse it gets, the more they can take.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:25
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I will have to be very careful with what I say without costing me my job but the procurement process for a lot of the testing sites equipment is not very cost effective. Also https://twitter.com/flying_rodent/status/1367778163909136387?s=19 Oh nooooooo
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Mar 5, 2021 12:26
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namesake posted:Why do you think it's being spent on things rather than transferred out of government accounts into private accounts and so it is 'spent'? Because you can't just 'transfer' the money, especially not at that scale. You need something to have invoiced for - this can be fees, reimbursements, kit, tests etc sure, but it can't just be "here is some money". Like, there is no doubt there's massive grift and buddy-contracts going on, but I just can't imagine what the billing lines could actually say to reach these numbers.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:26
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MikeCrotch posted:Someone from the left will get on - the SCG have enough people to get someone on the ballot barring a rules change (which is not out of the question) Even if a lefty gets a nom, which I doubt at this point, and manages to win, they'll just get the same treatment Corbyn did, only accelerated this time. They're be snowed under with waves of accusations of antisemitism, racism, classism, and basically anythign else the press can devise, from day 0. Then get chicken couped a month in for not being supported by the people doing the coup. It's practically pre-written at this point.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:38
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From what I can tell its basically the government handing staggeringly large amounts of money to their favorite outsourcers like Serco etc who are then supposed to set up the various pieces of the program. I dunno about the testing but for tracing they basically havent actually done anything other than stuffing some call centers full of people who dont actually have any work to do.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:40
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Red Oktober posted:Because you can't just 'transfer' the money, especially not at that scale. You need something to have invoiced for - this can be fees, reimbursements, kit, tests etc sure, but it can't just be "here is some money". Think of the dril tweet about budgeting but replace 'candles' with 'staff' and add some zeros to the price of it and there you go.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:59
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Guavanaut posted:What the gently caress will they even be for if they're running to the right of the tories on economic and social and cultural issues? I’ve never understood why people on the right of the party are in the party at all and not in the LDs or Tories. Why be in a party which doesn’t share your values?
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Mar 5, 2021 13:03
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MikeCrotch posted:There's a pretty plausible theory that the right will try and install Jess Phillips again - the problem the right will have (and have had in the past) is that they're all such blatant careerists it's hard for them to work together. The second the party internally acknowledges blood in the water, we're going to get a blanket of essays in every paper headed "I think they should let me be leader, I would be great (by me, Jess Philips, age 12¾)." She'll absolutely blow it unless Kieth resigns today, which he won't but absolutely should. Got to love the same people who were talking about Corbyn's cult of personality now worshipping one single politician as the solution based entirely on her gender and accent. MikeCrotch posted:Yeah Labour can run on a fash lite platform but thats a self correcting problem because it will just never work at the ballot box, though there is the risk of irreversibly loving up the Labour party as a whole. serious gaylord posted:I will have to be very careful with what I say without costing me my job but the procurement process for a lot of the testing sites equipment is not very cost effective. That said their pencils are pretty high quality with consistently smooth graphite and it's very rare you get that weird scratchy grit you get in cheap pencils. So many boxes of them going missing though, shame that *continues drawing.*
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Mar 5, 2021 13:05
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therattle posted:I’ve never understood why people on the right of the party are in the party at all and not in the LDs or Tories. Why be in a party which doesn’t share your values? Because they don't think of it as a matter of values. They want employment in the business of politics, either for life or as a platform to better jobs later, and they go with who's hiring.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:06
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BTW, I hope this finally puts to bed the discussion about whether or not Glenn Greenwald is a fascist now: https://twitter.com/KnowNothingTV/status/1367512104140492801 Answer: he is.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:07
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Red Oktober posted:Because you can't just 'transfer' the money, especially not at that scale. You need something to have invoiced for - this can be fees, reimbursements, kit, tests etc sure, but it can't just be "here is some money". It's whatever they want. Ever seen a US hospital bill? '£5k to hold the baby post-birth' etc. etc. Nobody outside the govt/civil service can see it, so nobody can go 'hold on this is bullshit' without losing their job
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Mar 5, 2021 13:10
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Comrade Fakename posted:BTW, I hope this finally puts to bed the discussion about whether or not Glenn Greenwald is a fascist now: yeah no
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Mar 5, 2021 13:11
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Jose posted:yeah no Another quote from that interview (with Tucker Carlson's website, btw): quote:I don't really buy into the idea that Black Lives Matter protests and George Floyd protests are organic. Liberals loved those protests because they get to focus on racial issues instead of the economic issues that truly divide us. Why did these protests just spring up magically under Trump? Where were these people under Obama and George W. Bush? Where are these people under Biden? I don't see thousands of people out on the streets every night since the election. Is that a coincidence?
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Mar 5, 2021 13:16
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Darth Walrus posted:Because they don't think of it as a matter of values. They want employment in the business of politics, either for life or as a platform to better jobs later, and they go with who's hiring. Also the Lib Dems are loving proven losers, if you can brownnose your way up the Labour ranks you're much more likely to be able to get a safe seat As for the Tories - frankly I think a lot of them do. Look at Rishi Sunak and tell me you couldn't imagine him in Starmer's shadow cabinet. I think people do overstate the outright cynicism of the Labour right - while there are pure careerists I think most of them are true believers that New Labour was good and they are defending liberal capitalism from both a regressive left and callous small state Tories. The problem is their analysis is so flawed they haven't actually got an accurate view of the public, themselves, the left, or the Tories, and so are incapable of actually winning a public vote.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:17
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Comrade Fakename posted:Another quote from that interview (with Tucker Carlson's website, btw): What Ferguson happened under Obama Matt Taibbi is another journo who has gone completely off the deep end recently
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Mar 5, 2021 13:18
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Comrade Fakename posted:Another quote from that interview (with Tucker Carlson's website, btw): you're currently a member of a party that is led by a torture supporter
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Mar 5, 2021 13:18
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therattle posted:I’ve never understood why people on the right of the party are in the party at all and not in the LDs or Tories. Why be in a party which doesn’t share your values? Then there's the careerists/SPADs/student union graduates who see the whole thing as a means to a career and haven't yet grasped that at the top levels you have to create a direction and sell people on it, not just deliver it effectively according to managerial principle. I think in the medium to long term we're going to have to scrap FPTP and take the whole thing out of the party mechanisms and into the ballot boxes at some point.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:22
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on the plus side i never have to vote for hillary benn again
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Mar 5, 2021 13:32
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Jose posted:you're currently a member of a party that is led by a torture supporter This is a little unfair, Kieth is actually a torture enabler
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Mar 5, 2021 13:32
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Jose posted:you're currently a member of a party that is led by a torture supporter He used to be good. He slowly got more and more dubious, even by the last time he was interviewed on Chapo a bunch of his points were extremely questionable. Now he's repeatedly saying insane poo poo under the guise of  asking the real questions and going hard on the right wing grift.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:38
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Comrade Fakename posted:BTW, I hope this finally puts to bed the discussion about whether or not Glenn Greenwald is a fascist now: I don't know about fascist but he is dumb as all poo poo if he thinks Marine le Pen was running to the left of Macron, let alone Mélenchon e: and I'm not a member of Labour, before Jose tries to ad-hominem the gently caress out of me too
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Mar 5, 2021 13:38
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I feel like I'm taking the bait on a bit here, but why are you defending Greenwald? glenn can defend himself i just think calling him fascist because of where he appears is dumb as poo poo
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Mar 5, 2021 13:40
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Jose posted:glenn can defend himself i just think calling him fascist because of where he appears is dumb as poo poo The Daily Caller is an actual, no-poo poo white supremacist site, though. It's like doing a Q&A on Stormfront.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:45
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Jose posted:you're currently a member of a party that is led by a torture supporter Sorry, I forgot about all the good people who work for a nazi's website. Is Glenn Greenwald secretly your dad (somehow) or something? What is with your bizarre maximalist unshakable defence of a man who thinks that Black Lives Matter is a false flag?
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Mar 5, 2021 13:46
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Jose posted:glenn ... is dumb as poo poo Agreed
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Mar 5, 2021 13:46
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Jose posted:glenn can defend himself i just think calling him fascist because of where he appears is dumb as poo poo
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Mar 5, 2021 13:49
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Darth Walrus posted:The Daily Caller is an actual, no-poo poo white supremacist site, though. It's like doing a Q&A on Stormfront. no its not. yeah its a very right wing site but this hyperbole doesn't help anyone
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Mar 5, 2021 13:51
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MikeCrotch posted:I think people do overstate the outright cynicism of the Labour right - while there are pure careerists I think most of them are true believers that New Labour was good and they are defending liberal capitalism from both a regressive left and callous small state Tories. The problem is their analysis is so flawed they haven't actually got an accurate view of the public, themselves, the left, or the Tories, and so are incapable of actually winning a public vote. I read a quite interesting article yesterday on how the politicos ended up here: https://www.logically.ai/articles/the-loddening-of-political-communication I am a bit wary of linking to a site with a domain name that on first glance you would guess is full of alt-right bullshit, but as far as I can tell this one is just another Snopes (I haven't dug into whether or not their fact checking is particularly objective though). MikeCrotch posted:Matt Taibbi is another journo who has gone completely off the deep end recently Yeah, I started following him after I read Griftopia (and similarly Greenwald after the Snowden stuff, especially the way he handled the Newsnight interview, and how honest he was about not understanding anything at all about encryption to the point it's amazing he ever managed to read anything Snowden sent him), but the Trump/Russia stuff has completely broken them. The rest of US media has gone off in one wrong direction, and they seem to have ended up where that means they have to hold the polar opposite and it's not turning out well.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:51
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I think Glenn just has the kind of brain you get when you're the Owen Jones of Brazil and the actual government goes after you. It's not healthy.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:51
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MikeCrotch posted:What I wanted to give Taibbi the benefit of the doubt for ages because he's done so much good stuff in the past but wow he's gone mad over the last year. Maybe they're not dealing well with lockdown but something about the BLM protests really seemed to break Taibbi and Greenwald's brains.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:52
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