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NGDBSS posted:What are the Pokemon tier gradations? I recall them mentioned in the Reborn LP regarding the designer slapping down anything that didn't fit her insane ideas of balance. OU = overused?, what else? At the moment the current tiers are: AG - Anything Goes, used for the extremely broken stuff like endless-battle trolling, Double Team, Baton Pass, and Mega-Rayquaza. (The only Pokemon ever banned from Ubers.) Ubers - The traditional 'banned' tier, where most of the legendaries end up, as well as just generally overpowered shitwreckers like Mega Gengar. OU - Overused, the 'main' tier. BL - Borderline. Not a tier, but a designation for a pokemon that's not OU in usage but is too powerful for Underused. Every tier has its own BL now, but this is where it started. UU - Underused, the one below, for pokemon that are good, but not top-tier good. Note: Lots of UU and lower Pokemon can still be very good in OU, they might just not fit on as many teams, or have competition that does the same thing they do slightly better. RU - Rarely Used. Should probably be called 'Rarely Played', since it's the neglected middle child of the tiers. NU - Never Used, which is a bit of a misnomer now that it's not even the lowest tier. PU - Puns! Started as an unofficial tier that was canonized in the next gen. ZU - Zero Usage, which picked up the torch from PU as being the unofficial "worst of the worst" tier. Untiered - These poor bastards are so bad that they don't even have a tiny niche in PU. This is where you find superstars like Farfetch'd and Seaking. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 10:37
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Earlier generations don't necessarily have all the tiers, some were added as the pokedex got bigger. IIRC, NU was added in Gen 3, RU in Gen 5 and PU in Gen 6. So sometimes a pokemon can be RU in one generation and technically be farther from the bottom by being RU in the next generation! Also, UU is consistently the best tier, imo. Usage stats are some weird number like being on 3.41% of teams or something like that. It's calculated based on a 50% chance of seeing a given pokemon in 20 battles. Kind of an arbitrary number but it mostly ends up covering everything that is relevant for a tier. WrightOfWay fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 10:48
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WrightOfWay posted:Also, UU is consistently the best tier, imo.
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Mar 6, 2021 10:49
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I like UU because its the tier of "good, but flawed." It doesn't feel like you are using trash, just pokemon who are a touch too frail, weak or slow for OU. Though more recent gens have a lot of power creep so it's really more like "powerful enough for OU, but not popular for some reason." loving Kyurem-Black was UU at one point in Sun and Moon.
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Mar 6, 2021 11:00
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If you want to see what lands a pokemon into a given tier, the Pokemon Competitive History series helps break down how they performed in any given gen.
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Mar 6, 2021 11:09
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BisbyWorl posted:If you want to see what lands a pokemon into a given tier, the Pokemon Competitive History series helps break down how they performed in any given gen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p6DSVyyT8k
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Mar 6, 2021 11:18
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I think it's important to mention that the VGC doubles format is wildly different and the Smogon tiers don't give an accurate idea of how good a Pokemon is in that environment. There's some overlap between the two formats (Lando-T, Rillaboom, and Heatran to name a few), but not a whole lot, especially in Gen 8 where Dynamax is banned in Smogon singles. And even when there is overlap, item and movesets tend to vary a whole lot more. Pikalytics has Showdown usage stats for OU going back to Gen 1, and VGC stats from XY 2015 onward, as well as the common moves/abilities/items/EV spreads/teammates. It's really interesting to see Pokemon you'd never consider to be competitively viable find a niche in the VGC format, and this was the most useful tool for me to learn about what each Pokemon was up to when I finally decided to try the format out. Gen 8 VGC I think has been generally one of the healthiest formats competitive Pokemon has had in a long time. I could go on about VGC but I think that would be a bit too much of a derail for a Stadium thread where the idea of Double Battles didn't even exist yet, so I'll stop there.
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Mar 6, 2021 17:49
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ParTwo posted:I think it's important to mention that the VGC doubles format is wildly different and the Smogon tiers don't give an accurate idea of how good a Pokemon is in that environment. There's some overlap between the two formats (Lando-T, Rillaboom, and Heatran to name a few), but not a whole lot, especially in Gen 8 where Dynamax is banned in Smogon singles. And even when there is overlap, item and movesets tend to vary a whole lot more. Somewhat more relevant to this game is also that smogon is generally 6 v 6 singles, but official competitive (competitive-adjacent) Pokemon was often 3 v 3 singles before the switch to doubles (which became 4 v 4) which does flip the script quite a bit generation to generation. Stadium & gen 1 in particular is kind of its own beast, but there's a totally different meta at play which...pmush has kind of shown off pretty well! The Champion fight could have gone a lot differently had he brought 3 different pokemon and likewise had pmush brought a different 3 pokemon. Which also applies to the more casual Battle Spot format; there's definitely bleed over from smogon (or its Japanese counterparts) into it but watching a number of battles over the years there's a lot of just anything goes since there's no actual tiering outside of "restricted" pokemon
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Mar 6, 2021 18:25
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I actually really like that Stadium uses 3 v 3 instead of 6 v 6. I think if every battle were full length, they’d become insufferably long, and I wouldn’t love this game nearly as much as I do. Instead, it’s more compact, and I get the fun strategic puzzle of deciding who to bring and when.
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Mar 6, 2021 18:48
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PMush Perfect posted:I actually really like that Stadium uses 3 v 3 instead of 6 v 6. I think if every battle were full length, they’d become insufferably long, and I wouldn’t love this game nearly as much as I do. Instead, it’s more compact, and I get the fun strategic puzzle of deciding who to bring and when. Until you inevitably get thrown a curveball and your opponent brings the odd one out that completely screws up your strategy  Also the nicknames&minigames are clearly the best parts
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Mar 6, 2021 18:55
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My only regret about doing pure screenshot instead of video is that I can’t actually show off the mini games. (Unless I make videos literally just for that, I guess??)
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Mar 6, 2021 18:56
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PMush Perfect posted:My only regret about doing pure screenshot instead of video is that I can’t actually show off the mini games. (Unless I make videos literally just for that, I guess??) Could make for a fun bonus update. Quick vid of all the mini games with some subtitled commentary.
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Mar 6, 2021 19:15
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PMush Perfect posted:My only regret about doing pure screenshot instead of video is that I can’t actually show off the mini games. (Unless I make videos literally just for that, I guess??) Go hybrid! Finish not just a screenshot LP but a hybrid one as well! That'll show FASSLP who's boss!
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Mar 6, 2021 20:08
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Doing enough prepwork for what's coming up next, we might have an intermission update. Thought it'd be over pretty quickly, but I forgot how many new Pokemon I'd need to catch and train.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:29
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Route 28: There's Going To Be A Change of Pokemon    Surprising precisely no one, after demolishing the Stadium version of the Elite Four, the team has zero trouble with rolling over the game version that they mostly outlevel.    Mewtwo is mine not long after. Mewtwo  Viability: LOL/5 Mewtwo, despite initial appearances, actually has a few problems holding it back from- ahahaha, gently caress no, could you imagine? It's Mewtwo. 154 Special, 130 Speed, Recover, Barrier, Amnesia, and STAB Psychic all by level-up. If you want to be extra gratuitous, it also learns basically every TM worth knowing. Blizzard annihilates Exeggutor, Thunder demolishes Starmie and Slowbro, Submission crushes Chansey, and Self-Destruct is just mean. You can't even use Mewtwo in most Stadium game modes, this is just a victory lap. So, what's next? Do we just stuff the cartridge in the TransferPak to never be removed again except to pull out and possibly train our needed Pokemon? Soon, but not just yet.    While there will be some old faces returning (spoiler: DOCTOR GUN will be back), every team member currently in the Hall of Fame will be set aside so that others may step forward, as will any other potential members of their evolutionary line. It is time for my son BORT to take his well-earned retirement. Also it'd be a really boring LP if every update came down to "and then I demolished everything with Starmie." The point of the challenge was to limit my Pokemon selection, and now with several powerful species locked off, as well as TMs that we'll never be getting back, I'll need to get a bit more creative with how to make the best possible teams for the challenges ahead.    But first, we have some catching to do. While the Poke Cup and Prime Cup will be open to many Pokemon we already have, the Petit Cup and Pika Cup have specific rules that limit our selections. This includes stringent lists of allowed species, as well as much lower maximum levels. If you don't care much about the actual team-building, or don't want to be spoiled on what comes next, feel free to skip the entire rest of this update. It's more of an intermission than anything else, I just wanted to make something vaguely productive out of the hours of catching and training I had to do.    First, the Pika Cup. The Pika Cup has a lenient list of usable Pokemon, but a maximum level of 20 for any individual Pokemon, and a maximum level of 50 for the three you pick for each battle. There are a few ways to game this, but I've decided to take the simple path of four Level 15 Pokemon, and two Level 20s.   With such a low maximum level, Pokemon who evolve early and easily are extremely valuable here. Starting at the maximum and working our way down, we're going to pick up another Spearow, who will evolve into Fearow at level 20, and a Nidoran Male, who will evolve into Nidorino, and thus Nidoking, at level 16.   And yes, I did say Nidoking. Despite having been rated higher, Nidoqueen's main benefit over her male counterpart, learning Body Slam, happens at level 23. This is, you may note, more than 20. As Nidoking has higher offensive stats and is instead missing out on learning the mostly-useless Thrash, he eeks out a victory as the more useful Pokemon in the Pika Cup.   Aside from effectively infinite TMs and HMs, and a pile of vitamins (which are such a staple at this point that they're hardly worth mentioning), the sandwich that killed Elvis is also going to finally make use of two high value TMs I've been saving for exactly this purpose: Earthquake, for a powerful STAB move, and Ice Beam, which, alongside Surf, gives him the kind of power and coverage most low-level Pokemon can only dream of.    Shellder can be fished up with a Super Rod in several places at exactly Level 15, then filled with vitamins and evolved with a Water Stone. With STAB Surf coming off of a decent 85 Special, and a ricockulously high 180 Defense, Cloyster is going to be an excellent addition to the team, and easily the best Water-type we have access to. Not having access to an Ice STAB is a little disappointing, but far outweighed by all the other benefits it brings to the table.   I use our Explosion(!) and Teleport(?!) TMs on it as well, the former as a potential final gently caress you, and the latter just for shits and giggles.   Not shown: Me using the Tri Attack TM on Clefable because I wasn't paying attention and forgot to get a screenshot. Butterfree, which evolves at level 10 and has moves actually worth using, is a shoo-in, as is Clefairy, the last Pokemon that evolves with a stone that we can obtain at level 15 or below. (Eevee, unfortunately, has a minimum of 20 in RBY even as a gift for beating the Gym Leader Castle. ...well, alright, there is technically another option. Vulpix is also available at Level 15 on Route 8, and will know Ember, giving it a STAB move. However, there are two problems with this. First, while Ninetales does have Ember, and a great stat total, it only has Ember, and no coverage moves worth using, aside from the standard stock of Take Down and Hyper Beam. This is especially notable because of the second problem: Not only are there no Pokemon in the upcoming battles that are weak to Fire but not Flying, there are many, many Water-types. This means that Ninetales would almost always be a liability rather than an asset, stuck sitting on the bench lest it risk getting demolished by a STAB Surf. Therefore, we are now using every worthwhile evolved Pokemon that can be obtained without trading or Shenanigans. The last team slot will instead need to be filled by unevolved or single-stage Pokemon who can distinguish itself even at this low level. For all the variety we've got, we still don't have a Psychic type. Unfortunately, most of our potential options are extremely lacking in Base Stat Total, a solid STAB attack, or both. But surely there must be something, right? Something with decent Special and Speed, something that has Confusion by level-up, something accessible at even the lowest levels. Something like... oh. Oh no.    Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Next Time on Multi-Track Battling: The Return of the King. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 11, 2021 10:39
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quote:Next Time on Multi-Track Battling: Literally half of these trainers are cheating. 
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Mar 11, 2021 11:47
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Team building with all of these limitations, both in level and in the Pokemon you can't use anymore, sure is interesting.
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Mar 11, 2021 14:56
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Yeah, the extra restrictions as things get sillier makes the whole process pretty neat.
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Mar 11, 2021 15:13
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I've always found the Pika & Petit Cups really interesting for that reason. It's so specific, especially before the time of auto-leveling either up to or down to the required level. crosspiece's Crystal Battle Tower was similarly interesting on the lower floors.
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Mar 11, 2021 15:25
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Did really enjoy the teambuilding montage and your reasonings for the decisions you took, thanks a lot for showing all that!
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Mar 11, 2021 15:27
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Am I correct in assuming that you could cheat some other things into the pika cup if you bred them in GSC and then time capsuled them over to gen 1 if that was allowed by the terms of the LP?
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Mar 11, 2021 18:47
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The true stadium let's play begins now(soon)
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Mar 11, 2021 19:01
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The Golux posted:Am I correct in assuming that you could cheat some other things into the pika cup if you bred them in GSC and then time capsuled them over to gen 1 if that was allowed by the terms of the LP?
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Mar 11, 2021 19:23
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Could you take advantage of the cinnabar island glitch to actually get one?
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Mar 11, 2021 19:30
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Damanation posted:Could you take advantage of the cinnabar island glitch to actually get one? Probably. You can get pokemon that are over level 100 with that glitch, and if memory serves you can rare candy them until they go past 255 and overflow back to level 1.
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Mar 11, 2021 19:37
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This reminds me, a few months back I came across this video detailing how many pokemon can be legally brought into Pika cup, including which ones just barely miss out. It keeps it to gen 1 specifically (breeding, if nothing else, throws a big wrench, much less the lower levels an assortment of others are around at) and excludes glitches, though.
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Mar 11, 2021 19:37
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There's also the Ditto variation of the Mew glitch that lets you get any pokemon at level 7, so that would be another way to cheese the requirements, though it requires not to have defeated certain trainers ingame to activate the glitch.
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Mar 11, 2021 19:50
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Damanation posted:Could you take advantage of the cinnabar island glitch to actually get one? If you catch the right Missingno version with this glitch you can actually get a lvl0 pokemon that will evolve at lvl1 to Kangaskhan. Having a tank pokemon like that at super low level is fun. Even more fun, you can teach the unevolved glitch pokemon Surf and Fly.
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Mar 11, 2021 20:16
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The in-game trade page on Bulbapedia also has a list of Pokemon you can get that are way below what you could, like we saw with Mr. Mime. Such highlights include a level 3 Electrode and a level 5 Machamp.
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Mar 11, 2021 20:30
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The AI? Cheating in a Pokemon game? Say it isn't so! *Side eyes literally every battle tower in the series*
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Mar 11, 2021 23:57
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It's amazing how many of the ultra rare flamethrower and friends TMS the enemy trainers found.
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Mar 12, 2021 00:16
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Crosspeice posted:The in-game trade page on Bulbapedia also has a list of Pokemon you can get that are way below what you could, like we saw with Mr. Mime. Such highlights include a level 3 Electrode and a level 5 Machamp.
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Mar 12, 2021 00:27
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Having an extra Transfer Pak and a copy of Red and Silver made playing through Stadium so much more enjoyable. Yes I was one of those kids who had Two Transfer Paks and traded between them I had no friends.
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Mar 12, 2021 03:08
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FoolyCharged posted:It's amazing how many of the ultra rare flamethrower and friends TMS the enemy trainers found. You don't know. Maybe they replayed the game for each of those TMs. Having played a catch-all hack for Crystal that also made TMs reusable ala gen5 onwards really spoiled me. It's so much more fun to play around with moves like that without having to worry about many of them being one-time deals.
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Mar 12, 2021 04:59
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Gen 1 started the series's weird trend of not knowing if it wants to be a replayable Dragon Quest clone with permanent decisions and a brisk but personal narrative or an extended tutorial and setup for an indepth and shockingly deep game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. I'm not sure they've figured out what they want yet, to be honest.
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Mar 12, 2021 05:15
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Rosalie_A posted:Gen 1 started the series's weird trend of not knowing if it wants to be a replayable Dragon Quest clone with permanent decisions and a brisk but personal narrative or an extended tutorial and setup for an indepth and shockingly deep game of Rock/Paper/Scissors.
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Mar 12, 2021 05:25
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On the notion of replayability, I'd kill for a pokemon game that lets you newgame+ and keep your boxed 'mons on the premise that badge level restrictions will actually matter since you'll be creating a new trainer ID.
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Mar 12, 2021 07:00
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MR. J posted:On the notion of replayability, I'd kill for a pokemon game that lets you newgame+ and keep your boxed 'mons on the premise that badge level restrictions will actually matter since you'll be creating a new trainer ID. I just want a game that lets you skip cutscenes (or at least the tutorial) on replay once you have a completed game in the save file. I saved the world and became the champ, my 'mons are even registered in the hall of fame, I do not need to be taught how to catch them all again.
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Mar 12, 2021 07:37
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MR. J posted:On the notion of replayability, I'd kill for a pokemon game that lets you newgame+ and keep your boxed 'mons on the premise that badge level restrictions will actually matter since you'll be creating a new trainer ID. Technically speaking this is any game with Bank/HOME compatibility, especially X and Y. Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 09:12
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Shaezerus posted:Technically speaking this is any game with Bank/HOME compatibility, especially X and Y. Ok, but I have to pay for those rather than it being built into the cart
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Mar 12, 2021 12:45
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