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This is a cool song from Taiwan I like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VCU94B_Oig
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Mar 5, 2021 10:19
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hakimashou posted:the looming securities/ stock/ investment catastrophe since their securities markets are in a large part just government fiction I'm just wondering when HKEX will be downgraded to emerging market status due to CCP interference.
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Mar 5, 2021 17:53
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i think the demographic problem in china ends up being kind of overstated because we've already established that the CCP is capable of horrifying coldness toward people they find inconvenient. if gma and gpa are a drain on the glorious socialist system they'll simply help along the dying process. this isn't to say it won't have any effect because the culture of elder care in China will mean that overstressed children work themselves into poverty trying to stand against the tide, but the CCP is not going to make a lot of promises that acknowledge or honor this culture that will eventually sink it. pension plans, elder care stipends to caregivers, state subsidized healthcare for elders like medicare/medicaid in the USA - the CCP will happily just not make promises no matter how many people call for them. it's a less pronounced kind of harm than the video seems to imply will happen.
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Mar 5, 2021 18:34
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Heh heh heh China 
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Mar 5, 2021 18:37
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People have been predicting the downfall of China for decades and it hasn't quite happened yet. I expect it will deaccerlerate at some point but there's not going to be a major crash everyone is hoping for.
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Mar 5, 2021 18:40
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chinese property markets are leveraged 20, 50x in practice if not in theory and same for the equities markets except like 5-10x (ant financial in particular was 100x leveraged on what was effectively lending...), so even a slowdown will end up getting multiplied into a gigantic crash. that's leverage! 60%, 70% my rear end lol bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 18:43
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Not So Fast posted:People have been predicting the downfall of China for decades and it hasn't quite happened yet. I expect it will deaccerlerate at some point but there's not going to be a major crash everyone is hoping for. Pretty much like everywhere else tbh
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Mar 5, 2021 18:44
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Coolguye posted:this isn't to say it won't have any effect because the culture of elder care in China will mean that overstressed children work themselves into poverty trying to stand against the tide, but the CCP is not going to make a lot of promises that acknowledge or honor this culture that will eventually sink it. pension plans, elder care stipends to caregivers, state subsidized healthcare for elders like medicare/medicaid in the USA - the CCP will happily just not make promises no matter how many people call for them. it's a less pronounced kind of harm than the video seems to imply will happen. I wonder what's going to happen with the healthcare system. China's healthcare is basically the same private system as the US except even more brutal, like for an example, Chinese emergency rooms have no legal obligation to provide treatment if you can't pay for it. When you can look at US healthcare as an improvement you're in a real bad place.
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Mar 5, 2021 18:47
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Coolguye posted:i think the demographic problem in china ends up being kind of overstated because we've already established that the CCP is capable of horrifying coldness toward people they find inconvenient. if gma and gpa are a drain on the glorious socialist system they'll simply help along the dying process. Are we sure the current covid virus wasn't for that?
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Mar 5, 2021 18:50
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wjs5 posted:Are we sure the current covid virus wasn't for that? it didnt even kill enough american peeps for that. you would need death rates comparable to sars 1 to get that to happen
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Mar 5, 2021 18:52
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Not So Fast posted:People have been predicting the downfall of China for decades No they haven't. People have been hyping up China for decades. I'm not sure where this idea of "everyone has always been down on China" comes from because I keep seeing it on the internet even from people who aren't wumao. The only one I can think of who has made anything like that claim is Gordon Chang, who pro-CCP folks love to use as a strawman for anyone who isn't on board the When China Rule The World narrative.
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Mar 6, 2021 03:27
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"China's demographic, environmental, and fiscal issues are going to become increasingly problematic for the CCP in 20-30 years." -analyst, 2011 "Haha! You're full of poo poo. I just checked Wikipedia and it says that China still exists!" -tankie 2021
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Mar 6, 2021 05:10
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https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/sbs-suspends-chinese-tv-news-services-after-forced-confessions-complaint-20210305-p57896.html Chinese media news: Much like the BBC being banned in China, Australian national broadcaster SBS has decided to not run CCP based TV News shows and stuff, because of their showing "forced confessions." SBS shows a lot of international news shows in a variety of languages, (Turkish news, Hindi news, Japanese news, German news etc.), direct from international broadcasters. But because they got a letter complaining that CCTV-4 and CGTN sometimes use the international broadcasts to show the forced confessions, (think the "I am sorry I have brought shame to the nation" style poo poo they make dissidents do), SBS are suspending running anything from these two stations. Prepare for either the ABC to be banned in China in retaliation, or for a wave of "hurt feelings" diplomacy.
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Mar 6, 2021 07:51
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Grand Fromage posted:I wonder what's going to happen with the healthcare system. China's healthcare is basically the same private system as the US except even more brutal, like for an example, Chinese emergency rooms have no legal obligation to provide treatment if you can't pay for it. When you can look at US healthcare as an improvement you're in a real bad place. Yeah a Vietnamese co-worker of mine said that Vietnam has no social safety net whatsoever in practice.
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Mar 6, 2021 09:45
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Wait, isn't Vietnam supposed to be actually communist?
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Mar 6, 2021 10:39
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the vietnamese communist party makes the ccp look communist
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Mar 6, 2021 11:20
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Vietnam seems to turn over leadership and doesn’t really have a living cult of personality which puts it leagues ahead of most M-L states as far as being actually democratic. I don’t know much about it except what I hear from friends and when I visited for a bit, it was a nice country, probably the nicest Southeast Asian country in terms of stuff like the cops probably aren’t going to shake you down like in Thailand or you’re not going to get mugged if you wander around. I’m kinda curious how it actually functions I don’t much about it as a political system
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Mar 6, 2021 11:26
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WarpedNaba posted:Wait, isn't Vietnam supposed to be actually communist? Yes, but its also actually still recovering from the Vietnam War and opening up via predatory IMF loans. It did manage to weather the pandemic better than most countries.
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Mar 6, 2021 14:42
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WarpedNaba posted:Wait, isn't Vietnam supposed to be actually communist? According to my Vietnamese friend, the official line is that they have to be more capitalist first, otherwise communism doesn't work. Hence, for now, it's all about rich people enriching themselves and party officials grifting, because then communism will work (later on). Hope this helps
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Mar 6, 2021 14:42
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It's the revolutionary vanguard in action 
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Mar 6, 2021 15:33
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“We have to do capitalism for communism to work” is kinda like Asia’s own version of “we haven’t yet deregulated enough for real capitalism”. It’s a completely insane dogma that has nothing to do with reality but it lets the people in charge grift harder.
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Mar 6, 2021 15:39
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It's dumb but IIRC the lame excuse is probably a rigid reading of Marx's historical materialism that things always follow a historical trajectory in modes of production from ancient > feudal > capitalist > communist and you can't skip right from feudal to communism without having some capitalism to create the industrial conditions/angry workers needed. You know like just like you can't jump straight from the Tool Age to the Iron Age in Age of Empires without going through the Bronze age to build a temple and academy. Conveniently that allows for horrific graft and abuses of power. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 15:54
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Almost every theoretically communist country you can care to name is literally full to the brim of people on their grind. Life on the ground in most of them honestly feels more cut-throat capitalist than just your regular capitalist country. From my small sample size of times I talked politics in Vietnam, they all hate China, and they hate their government because apparently they are just puppets of China as well 
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Mar 6, 2021 15:59
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Why would people in communist countries not be on the grind? Communism is about being able to decide on your own compensation of the profit from your own labour, but to do that you have to labour.
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Mar 6, 2021 16:20
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Haramstufe Rot posted:According to my Vietnamese friend, the official line is that they have to be more capitalist first, otherwise communism doesn't work. Hence, for now, it's all about rich people enriching themselves and party officials grifting, because then communism will work (later on). That is basically the Dengist reading of Marxism isn't it, you have to have the material conditions in place first before you attempt socialism. The trick is in getting to that point without your successors turning into capitalist dogs, I suppose.
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Mar 6, 2021 16:55
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Buller posted:Why would people in communist countries not be on the grind? Communism is about being able to decide on your own compensation of the profit from your own labour, but to do that you have to labour. Sorry, I phrased it poorly. I meant in terms of hustling rather than working hard. Most state-paid workers in Vietnam/Cuba/Laos/China are manifestly not putting much labour into anything. In Cuba for example, most people have a government paid/assigned job for which they are paid in local pesos which are used to pay for necessities, but they only really care about the convertible tourist pesos which can be used to pay for luxuries. Most Cubans earn far more from their independent side-gigs than from their official jobs. I just looked it up and they are abolishing the convertible peso and tying the national peso to the dollar anyway this year, so I guess that arcane system is on the verge of dying off, but anyway.
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Mar 6, 2021 17:41
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Yeah the Marxist reading would be that the amount of wealth in the system is mostly irrelevant because in a properly planned economy, efficiency will go up as new optimizations are found and things will get better; and, because of the redistribution system, they will get better for everyone equally. In reality the actual point is that the planned economy is a crock of poo poo and is only even theoretically possible with an omniscient AI doing the planning. And even then it might not really work. Without the planned economy handling the “from each according to their ability” portion, you’ve just got capitalism with a strong safety net. Except that as it turns out when you also severely centralize power the way Marx loved to do, you never get the strong safety net because the people in power end up becoming dictators. So you never get the “to each according to their need.” There’s a reason why communism is as dead a philosophy as Latin is a language and nerds need to get over it and start focusing on either agitating for the social safety net programs they need or getting involved in the actually novel governance and economic research being done on crap like reputation governance, liquid democracy, streaming economic flows, continuous payments, etc etc. there’s an entire world of new and exciting thinking out there that can up-end authoritative bullshit and plutocratic rapaciousness but people just prefer to jack off to the Soviet national anthem while fellating Xi online.
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Mar 6, 2021 17:57
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Coolguye posted:There’s a reason why communism is as dead a philosophy as Latin is a language and nerds need to get over it and start focusing on either agitating for the social safety net programs they need or getting involved in the actually novel governance and economic research being done on crap like reputation governance, liquid democracy, streaming economic flows, continuous payments, etc etc. there’s an entire world of new and exciting thinking out there that can up-end authoritative bullshit and plutocratic rapaciousness but people just prefer to jack off to the Soviet national anthem while fellating Xi online. Don't kinkshame me
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Mar 6, 2021 18:02
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Yeah a Vietnamese co-worker of mine said that Vietnam has no social safety net whatsoever in practice. Yep. China doesn't exactly have no social safety net, but the one they have makes the US look like Denmark in comparison. That's another part of the demographic issue--olds are supported entirely by children, and there aren't anywhere near enough children to support the olds anymore. The government will either have just a sea of homeless, dying olds or will have to make a staggering expansion to their social safety net, which they likely won't be able to afford since they're going to have a normal economy instead of a 10%+ yearly GDP growth. Coolguye posted:prefer to jack off to the Soviet national anthem Hey now. If you're going to jack off to a national anthem, the Soviets had the best one ever.
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Mar 6, 2021 18:19
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Coolguye posted:nerds need to get over it and start focusing on either agitating for the social safety net programs they need or getting involved in the actually novel governance and economic research being done on crap like reputation governance, liquid democracy, streaming economic flows, continuous payments, etc etc. there’s an entire world of new and exciting thinking out there that can up-end authoritative bullshit and plutocratic rapaciousness but people just prefer to jack off to the Soviet national anthem while fellating Xi online. While interesting points all, COMMUNIST NATIONAL ANTHEMS BOX IS NOW OPEN In Germany a common opinion is they kept the wrong one after unification. I mean, they're not wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1CyPjQQTAM
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Mar 6, 2021 20:36
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Buller posted:you have to labour. ... do the latte-sniffers in C-SPAM know this?
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Mar 6, 2021 21:18
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Communists did have the best anthems. French have the best lyrics but the song sucks
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Mar 7, 2021 01:23
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:While interesting points all, COMMUNIST NATIONAL ANTHEMS BOX IS NOW OPEN 
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Mar 7, 2021 01:31
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:While interesting points all, COMMUNIST NATIONAL ANTHEMS BOX IS NOW OPEN
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Mar 7, 2021 03:10
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Communists did have the best anthems. Re: The French National Anthem. It is also the club song for now defunct football team Fitzroy. So whenever I hear La Marseilles, I always sing "We are the boys from old Fitzroy, we wear the colours, red gold and blue ...." instead of the 'real' lyrics. Edit: slightly related. I wonder if Australia and China's worsening relationship will have any bearing on the once a year footy match that Port Adelaide plays in Shanghai. On one hand, it is largely ignored by China, Chinese media and the CCP, but on the other, the CCP are petty enough to block it, and make a big deal about how they are fighting against foreign influence in the form of a football game thet few people north of Mildura understand. Most likely it probably just won't happen due to COVID travel restrictions etc. Which is the boring option. BrigadierSensible fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 03:31
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:It's dumb but IIRC the lame excuse is probably a rigid reading of Marx's historical materialism that things always follow a historical trajectory in modes of production from ancient > feudal > capitalist > communist and you can't skip right from feudal to communism without having some capitalism to create the industrial conditions/angry workers needed. This is orthodox Marxism. The "Leninism" in Marxism-Leninism is supposed to let you skip straight from feudalism to socialism. In practice this did not work out so well, thus Dengism.
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Mar 7, 2021 04:08
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https://twitter.com/maureenahuebel/status/1367609902168862720?s=21
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Mar 7, 2021 10:51
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Well, I guess China isn't straight up massacring the Uighurs. They probably would if they could, though.
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Mar 7, 2021 10:57
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they can.
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Mar 7, 2021 12:59
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I literally don't even know where to start with this one. drat.
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