UKMT March 2021 - Two Flags One Pole - The Something Awful Forums

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Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Necrothatcher posted:

so how does that make me a transphobe?

I'm not calling you a transphobe I'm just saying you are posting apologia for an institutionally transphobic service

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:15

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# ? May 24, 2024 04:59

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

a count of those processed of those referred since december 2019 is a pretty unlikely reading of the requester's intent, imo, and the clinic should have clarified. if there's not a way within FOIA to clarify with the requester what they're asking then that's dumb

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:15

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Aramoro posted:

That's exactly what the posted tweet says?

Then someone said that's not true, and now you're agreeing that's not true? So we're all good?

Yeah what matters in the number of first appointments not follow ups

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:16

Algol Star: Sep 6, 2010

OwlFancier posted:

The whole thing seems predicated on the idea that they couldn't possibly only have seen two people so there must be some other explanation, which uh, why?

No it's predicated on knowing how the NHS records, accesses and assesses such data and how it responds to freedom of information requests.

OwlFancier posted:

They have to answer the exact question except when they don't?

Also I think that parsing that question as "only people who have been both accepted and assessed since that time" is inherently subjective, it could just as well be read as "how people people have been accepted and how many people have been processed?"

'accepted and processed' is what was asked, 'accepted and processed' is what was answered. It means how many were accepted and of those what were the outcomes. It is not ambiguous.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:17

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Rumda posted:

Yeah what matters in the number of first appointments not follow ups

So we all agree the original tweet is wrong, so why are people getting called transphobes?

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:17

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Algol Star posted:

It is not ambiguous.

Horseshit.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:18

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

Aramoro posted:

So we all agree the original tweet is wrong, so why are people getting called transphobes?

What do you mean "We"? Surely you mean yourself

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:19

TRIXNET: Jun 6, 2004; META AS FUCK.

therattle posted:

It�s fine, my comment wasn�t aimed at you and I wasn�t suggesting you�d downplayed it. It never crossed my mind. It was just the general point that it�s unfair that the repercussions are not limited to the offender.

Ah, I was just projecting it's what I was thinking about my comments, I do it tooooo often

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:20

Necrothatcher: Mar 26, 2005

OwlFancier posted:

Horseshit.

The question should have been phrased:

Could you:

a) provide data on how many patients have been accepted since December 2019.

b) provide data on how many patients have been processed since December 2019.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:20

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

also when the other figures show a 2,600 person waiting list waiting as much as 5.7 years with 500 more people joining in in the space of a year then focusing so much on this one point of whether the gic is also bad in this other way is perhaps a bit of a distraction

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:23

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

Only a cis person could look at the utter abomination that is trans health care in the uk and walk away with the belief that it's not as bad as trans people are saying it is

People literally kill themselves because of dysphoria over these years long waiting times and that's before covid is factored in.

Some of the lowest waiting times are in the 2-3+ years

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:25

Algol Star: Sep 6, 2010

OwlFancier posted:

Horseshit.

It is literally what those words mean. It's extremely clear. 'processed' does not mean anything to do with how many new patients were seen, it is completely meaningless if it is not referring to the group of referrals just mentioned in the question. If anything they erred on the side of giving more information than was technically asked. 'how many new patients were seen' and 'how many referrals were processed' do not mean the same thing.
It's understandable if people who don't have experience with this don't know this but when people who know do point out what the answer means the reaction here was ridiculous.

If you want to know how many people got their first appointment Vs how many referrals were received you should ask:
'1 -How many new referrals were received in the period x-y.
2 - during the period x-y how many new patient appointments were completed'

Algol Star fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Mar 6, 2021

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:26

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Algol Star posted:

It is literally what those words mean. It's extremely clear. 'processed' does not mean anything to do with how many new patients were seen, it is completely meaningless if it is not referring to the group of referrals just mentioned in the question. If anything they erred on the side of giving more information than was technically asked. 'how many new patients were seen' and 'how many referrals were processed' do not mean the same thing.
It's understandable if people who don't have experience with this don't know this but when people who know do point out what the answer means the reaction here was ridiculous.

If you want to know how many people got their first appointment Vs how many referrals were received you should ask:
'1 -How many new referrals were received in the period x-y.
2 - during the period x-y how many new patient appointments were completed'

they did not answer how many patients were processed

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:34

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1368249069727006720

World's Most Divorced Man apparently believes his own bullshit. It's not cheap to run for Mayor of London and I seriously doubt the culture war dark money that's been feeding him so far will back him in this because the very best-case scenario is that he hives off the voters too racist to vote for Shaun Bailey, the amount of votes he'd take from Khan is basically zero.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:38

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Algol Star posted:

It's understandable if people who don't have experience with this don't know this

in that case then, it seems a failure of this clinic or the FOI system in general to not have a process for the answerers to clarify what the questioner meant. FOI as mythical trickster literal-wish genie is not a great system

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:40

Algol Star: Sep 6, 2010

Rumda posted:

they did not answer how many patients were processed

They've given the 16 outcomes that occured in the dataset.

Angepain posted:

in that case then, it seems a failure of this clinic or the FOI system in general to not have a process for the answerers to clarify what the questioner meant. FOI as mythical trickster literal-wish genie is not a great system

This is just FOI requests in general and as someone pointed out earlier it's much better than giving organisations the ability to creatively interpret questions. Even with this plenty still abuse it, the clinic in this case has attempted a good faith response to the question asked. It's fairly common for people who make a lot of FOI requests to get advice on how to phrase their question if they don't speak the language of the field very well.

Algol Star fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 6, 2021

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:40

Necrothatcher: Mar 26, 2005

Angepain posted:

in that case then, it seems a failure of this clinic or the FOI system in general to not have a process for the answerers to clarify what the questioner meant. FOI as mythical trickster literal-wish genie is not a great system

There's a process for that:

quote:

What if we are unsure what�s being asked for?
Requests are often ambiguous, with many potential interpretations, or no clear meaning at all. If you can�t answer the request because you are not sure what is being requested, you must contact the requester as soon as possible for clarification.

You do not have to deal with the request until you have received whatever clarification you reasonably need. However, you must consider whether you can give the requester advice and assistance to enable them to clarify or rephrase their request. For example, you could explain what options may be available to them and ask whether any of these would adequately answer their request.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-freedom-of-information/receiving-a-request/#7

e:

Actually their given example pretty much covers the situation we're talking about :

quote:

"You have asked for all expenses claims submitted by Mrs Jones and dates of all meetings attended by Mrs Jones in June, July or August last year.

This could mean:
A) all expenses claims Mrs Jones ever submitted, plus dates of meetings she attended in June, July and August; or
B) all expenses claims Mrs Jones submitted in June, July or August, and dates of meetings she attended in the same months.

Please let us know which you mean.�

# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:44

IllusionistTrixie: Feb 6, 2003

Rumda posted:

https://twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1368164668955590661?s=19
This is why the GICs need to be abolished, they do not exist to help us, sending more money their way will not help.

poo poo like this is why I see my only option is to remain depressed and continue presenting male. There's literally no help, and I'm not sure I'd have the strength to have the daily fight other trans-women have over,

Bathrooms
Shared living spaces
Sports
Children
The right to loving exist

Maybe I'll cough up :10bux:

for an account name change and just live vicariously that way?

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:00

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1368249069727006720

World's Most Divorced Man apparently believes his own bullshit. It's not cheap to run for Mayor of London and I seriously doubt the culture war dark money that's been feeding him so far will back him in this because the very best-case scenario is that he hives off the voters too racist to vote for Shaun Bailey, the amount of votes he'd take from Khan is basically zero.

The article says he literally has a single donor who's funding the whole thing: this guy, a Brexiteer steam train enthusiast who previously tried to marry his passions by setting up a new party called 'Brexit Express'.

Also he commissioned his own polling to show the silent majority were crying out for an anti-Woke alternative, and then just decided to plow ahead anyway when it found they weren't:

quote:

The news came as new polling showed a significant minority of Londoners are uncomfortable about the London Mayor's 'woke' policies such as his review of statues.

One in four voters in the capital thought Mr Khan was "too woke" - although 27 per cent found him "not woke enough".

A similar proportion - 25 per cent - were against a review ordered by Mr Khan into whether statues should be removed because of links to slavery or colonialism, against 39 per cent in favour.

Mr Fox hopes that his push to end lockdown sooner will see him win votes from Mr Khan, who launched his re-election campaign last week and has been noticeably keener to go further with lockdowns than the Conservative government.

The survey, conducted by Savanta ComRes among 1,000 people in London in late February for the Reclaim Party, found that 25 per cent of Londoners wanted lockdown lifted by the end of this month. Some 58 per cent wanted it gone by the end of May. Among Londoners aged 18-34, the latter figure rises to 63 per cent.

Edit: wait, can't let this gem from his announcement speech slip past:

"Boris Johnson says �there�s nothing wrong with being woke�. Keir Starmer takes the knee to a hard-left organisation that seeks to undermine of all the things we hold dear, our families, our shared language and heritage. Sadiq Khan and his nation-hating cronies have their jealous eyes on our statues and institutions. Where does his desire to strip us of our history end? Surely Queen Victoria, the epitome of empire and white privilege, should be torn from her plinth in front of Buckingham Palace to be swiftly replaced with a monument to Greta Thunberg or Piers Morgan?"

Apraxin fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Mar 6, 2021

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:09

The Perfect Element: Dec 5, 2005; "This is a bit of a... a poof song"

I thought he was just a oval office, but he's actually going full fash? Nice of the Telegraph to give him the publicity.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:17

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1368249069727006720

World's Most Divorced Man apparently believes his own bullshit. It's not cheap to run for Mayor of London and I seriously doubt the culture war dark money that's been feeding him so far will back him in this because the very best-case scenario is that he hives off the voters too racist to vote for Shaun Bailey, the amount of votes he'd take from Khan is basically zero.

This all comes from him trying to promote his folk album where he whined that people found his jokes offensive.

Is there a psychological term for doubling down so many times you become Hitler, or will we just call it The Glinner Effect?

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:19

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Being a train enthusiast who works against socialism is just the most dissonant set of beliefs imaginable

Gonzo McFee posted:

The Glinner Effect?

Glinner-Rowling Syndrome

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:20

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Please just kill me so I don't have to read more people using the word woke unironically.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:21

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Failed Imagineer posted:

Being a train enthusiast who works against socialism is just the most dissonant set of beliefs imaginable

Glinner-Rowling Syndrome

only if you care about the people riding the trains. if you just treat them as a cock substitute it's perfectly consistent

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:22

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

LordVorbis posted:

poo poo like this is why I see my only option is to remain depressed and continue presenting male. There's literally no help, and I'm not sure I'd have the strength to have the daily fight other trans-women have over,

Bathrooms
Shared living spaces
Sports
Children
The right to loving exist

Maybe I'll cough up for an account name change and just live vicariously that way?

maybe a mod could get that sorted without the :10bux:

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:30

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

OwlFancier posted:

Please just kill me so I don't have to read more people using the word woke unironically.

dont be a woke, be a wide awake

the lawrence foxes of the world become more respectful when labour activists hold regular torchlight vigils and robust exchanges of free speech at venues that are most convenient for their edification.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:31

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

The Perfect Element posted:

I thought he was just a oval office, but he's actually going full fash? Nice of the Telegraph to give him the publicity.

Gonzo McFee posted:

This all comes from him trying to promote his folk album where he whined that people found his jokes offensive.

Taking his announcement screed at face value, I'd guess he was someone who a few years ago would have described themselves as liberal, no place for racists in our society, still some work to be done on equality for minorities, etc., but then someone found his his own views or actions to be problematic and asked him to change them, which we all know is the True Fascism, and things went downhill from there.

Also, from the same article:

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:31

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:36

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

even for the Torygraph there's an impressive level of cognitive dissonance to suggesting that about a quarter of Londoners don't like Sadiq Khan and therefore these are votes Fox could win from Khan

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:39

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Failed Imagineer posted:

Being a train enthusiast who works against socialism is just the most dissonant set of beliefs imaginable

Steam trains.

That can easily be the difference between someone that ought to be socialist and the most insufferable types of Brexity "things were better when we had an empire" pricks possible, a bit like with punk.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:43

WhatEvil: Jun 6, 2004; Can't get no luck.

Fly-tipping is something done by absolute pieces of poo poo... however it's also something that can be solved fairly easily with provision.

Here in Ottawa, you can just leave stuff like sofas, mattresses out on the curb and they'll get picked up on collection day. Other stuff like appliances you have to take to recycling places, and technically they're not supposed to pick up "construction materials/waste" but I've left out small amounts of wood and stuff and they've picked it up fine. If you left out like a skip's worth of stuff then obviously they wouldn't take it but so long as you don't take the piss it seems fine.

Also I was kind of surprised to see that they take tyres for free (though you have to take them to the refuse centre yourself) - up to 10 per day from a single person. I think normally in the UK when you have your tyres changed you have to pay a disposal fee of like �5-10 per tyre.

Funny story around that actually: I saw some pensioner fly-tipping a load of garden waste and stuff while I was driving somewhere with my wife (back in the UK), so we took the guy's number plate and reported it to the police (because seriously, gently caress fly-tippers). Some plod got in touch and talked to us about it, so he went and talked to the guy.

Turns out the bloke was respected in his area for... picking up litter. He'd won community awards for it and stuff. Apparently he used the excuse of "Oh it was just lawn clippings" and it's conceivable it was... but he was still dumping it in a lay-by and that is still very much not allowed - obviously if everybody did it it would be a huge problem. Anyway the plod said he gave the guy a verbal warning but given that he'd been a good member of his community they weren't going to prosecute him.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:44

kingturnip: Apr 18, 2008

Most fly-tipping is commercial stuff. My understanding of it goes like this:

Landlord A hires oval office B to clean out the flat of someone he's just had evicted. Landlord A is - of course - ~~a cheap piece of poo poo~~ an entrepreneur, so pays oval office B the absolute bare minimum for the job. oval office B could pay his cash-in-hand sub-minimum-wage labourer to spend a few hours to sort out what bits of trash can be recycled, what bits need to go in the bin, and what bits need to go the local dump and dispose of the trash properly... or he could pay his cash-in-hand sub-minimum-wage labourer for an hour to stick it all in the back of the van and drive out somewhere with no CCTV and dump it in a kid's playground.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:53

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

kingturnip posted:

Landlord A hires oval office B

I'm confused already, you'll need more than a letter to distinguish them.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:54

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Also it's a minor thing but what sort of utterly depraved mind would create a presumably at least 1.5m square patch of chesterfield for any reason whatsoever?

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:57

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Failed Imagineer posted:

Being a train enthusiast who works against socialism is just the most dissonant set of beliefs imaginable

I mean we have our current hosed up rail system because John Major really really missed GWR.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:58

Isomermaid: Dec 3, 2019; Swish swish, like a fish

LordVorbis posted:

poo poo like this is why I see my only option is to remain depressed and continue presenting male. There's literally no help, and I'm not sure I'd have the strength to have the daily fight other trans-women have over,

Solidarity and sympathies, it sucks, it really sucks. I don't know your situation but I will say I bet you are stronger than you think you are. I mean I can only speak for myself but relieving dysphoria made the rest of this mad poo poo, well... not easy but at least more bearable and not transitioning would have been staying in a burning building to keep out of the cold but that's something I only saw clearly afterwards. Please try to find people you can talk to, even if it's just other trans people online.

# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:02

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

my ma had a skip outside hers when she was having a big clear out a few years ago and some oval office dumped a fridge in it in the middle of the night :mad:

# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:04

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Milo Edwards has a great but in Trashfuture about the particular type of British guy who just *loves* going to the tip, to the point of knowing the names of the guys at the top and coming up with excuses to go. Extremely British Dad energy

MikeCrotch fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 6, 2021

# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:04

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

LordVorbis posted:

poo poo like this is why I see my only option is to remain depressed and continue presenting male. There's literally no help, and I'm not sure I'd have the strength to have the daily fight other trans-women have over,

Bathrooms
Shared living spaces
Sports
Children
The right to loving exist

Maybe I'll cough up for an account name change and just live vicariously that way?

Feel free to come over to the trans thread in byob if you haven't already

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3906197

# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:14

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# ? May 24, 2024 04:59

notaspy: Mar 22, 2009

MikeCrotch posted:

Milo Edwards has a great but in Trashfuture about the particular type of British guy who just *loves* going to the tip, to the point of knowing the names of the guys at the top and coming up with excuses to go. Extremely British Dad energy

Please don't doxx me

# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT March 2021 - Two Flags One Pole

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