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The Oldest Man posted:This should be considered a litmus test for one of the most important arms of the Democratic party in the country. He's a sitting executive so there are no excuses to be made about letting the voters decide, there's a pile of credible accusations, he's also an incompetent lying grandma-killer, and there's literally no chance of a chud getting in here. The only stakes are whether taking a sex abuser out of office matters more than loyalty to one's feudal party lord does. This is the lowest possible bar available to prove that Me Too was more than just a cudgel to hit Republicans with and then discard when it became inconvenient. Yeah there's no excuse to not run him out of office so I'm excited to see him face absolutely no consequences at all
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Mar 7, 2021 22:40
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some plague rats posted:Yeah there's no excuse to not run him out of office so I'm excited to see him face absolutely no consequences at all 
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Mar 8, 2021 00:12
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Man, watching the Bikram docu on Netflix with Jackie Lacey declining to press rape charges followed by watching ep 3 of Allen vs. Farrow sure has me wondering when the rich & powerful will face any consequences no matter how heinous their actions.
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Mar 8, 2021 05:35
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Only after they are, all of them simultaneously, removed from power.
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Mar 8, 2021 10:24
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I love that Matt Lauer keeps hovering on the edges of things ready to come back. EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A loving SLAMMING DOOR LOCK ON HIS DESK TO TRAP WOMEN IN HIS DRESSING ROOM WITH HIM
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Mar 8, 2021 18:08
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https://twitter.com/timesunion/status/1369374492485693458 Still waiting on that "roof coming down" thing where he doesn't get to be governor anymore.
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Mar 9, 2021 22:01
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Look, this is all a Russian op to get Cuomo out so NY can get a governor friendly enough to Trump to pardon him. /bigbrains
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Mar 9, 2021 22:05
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Bringing up Biden being a rapist with my liberal in-laws and extended family... woof That's about the quickest and most handily this white boy has ever been dismissed. Probably a good lesson in humility. Didn't even have a chance to discuss, was just a roaring hurricane of not giving a gently caress and disengaged dismissal. Anecdotal I guess but people really just don't want to hear it.
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Mar 9, 2021 22:42
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Bringing up Biden being a rapist with my liberal in-laws and extended family... woof The May 2020 polling that I linked earlier in this thread indicated that, at that time, 20% of Democrats believed Reade at all. I doubt that number has grown in the interim. You're probably not going to have a productive conversation about Joe Biden being a rapist with folks who flat-out don't believe it.
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Mar 9, 2021 22:50
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How are u posted:The May 2020 polling that I linked earlier in this thread indicated that, at that time, 20% of Democrats believed Reade at all. I doubt that number has grown in the interim. You're probably not going to have a productive conversation about Joe Biden being a rapist with folks who flat-out don't believe it. Of course it hasn't grown; I'm sure the no. of Republicans who were polled & thought Trump was a rapist hasn't grown over time, either. That's no reason to not name & shame rapists in public office, and there's no moral superiority in being part of an incorrect majority. People once believed that Woody Allen was a fine, upstanding filmmaker who was wronged by a jealous partner, but that tide has certainly changed over time, as it should. People once believed that Monica Lewinsky was a tramp. People once believed that Pedo Island was a conspiracy theory. People once believed a lot of things and their beliefs changed over time. A facet of moral clarity is taking a stand against bad things whether others believe in those things, or that those things are bad, at that time, as is taking a stand against bad things when it's politically inconvenient or uncomfortable to do so.
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Mar 9, 2021 23:32
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Willa Rogers posted:Of course it hasn't grown; I'm sure the no. of Republicans who were polled & thought Trump was a rapist hasn't grown over time, either. That's no reason to not name & shame rapists in public office, and there's no moral superiority in being part of an incorrect majority. I didn't say the OP shouldn't attempt to have the conversation if it's something they feel they should do. The OP did express surprise at the severity of the way they were shut down by their family, and I was just highlighting that the polling (unfortunately such old polling) indicates that's probably going to be a common response.
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Mar 9, 2021 23:37
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Bringing up Biden being a rapist with my liberal in-laws and extended family... woof Now imagine your family is the entire country and you've got an idea of how Tara Reade felt! Just a little something to completely ruin your morning 
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Mar 9, 2021 23:38
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some plague rats posted:Now imagine your family is the entire country and you've got an idea of how Tara Reade felt! Just a little something to completely ruin your morning This has been ruining a lot more than my morning.
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Mar 10, 2021 00:02
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How are u posted:I didn't say the OP shouldn't attempt to have the conversation if it's something they feel they should do. The OP did express surprise at the severity of the way they were shut down by their family, and I was just highlighting that the polling (unfortunately such old polling) indicates that's probably going to be a common response. You were advocating lesser-evilism for rapists & "gotta hope things just change on their own" upthread so I apologize if I misinterpreted your prior post as "time to wrap it up, rapist-haters; public opinion says that calling out rapists in office is for losers."
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Mar 10, 2021 00:08
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Harvey Mantaco posted:This has been ruining a lot more than my morning. Sorry that your family sucks. You're right, and this reflexive dismissiveness among Democrats is genuinely disgusting no matter how many times you see it. My family is also full of Good Dems, and boy howdy is there a powerful unwillingness to even think about how the allegations against Biden were silenced. /EN
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Mar 10, 2021 01:08
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https://twitter.com/harrysiegel/status/1369802372516560897?s=20 Well that's super bad. Let's see how that roof coming down thing is going. https://twitter.com/akela_lacy/status/1370032662317051915?s=20 There are a total of 213 New York State legislators, so 55 of them calling on him to resign is about 25%. Let's be generous and only count them against the total number of Democrats in both houses (145). That's 37%. Cuomo sexually harassed or assaulted at least six women and not even a simple majority of his own party's legislators will even call on him to resign. Much less impeach him.
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Mar 11, 2021 17:36
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The Oldest Man posted:https://twitter.com/harrysiegel/status/1369802372516560897?s=20 Are Schumer & Gillibrand still reserving their opinions until an investigation is finished?
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Mar 11, 2021 21:59
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I think it's going to take out of state pressure to get him to resign, frankly.
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Mar 11, 2021 22:15
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I think some strongly worded statements from NY's two U.S. senators might do the trick.
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Mar 11, 2021 23:06
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This thread has been useful for me, thanks to all the quality posters. I knew very little about these accusations against Biden beyond some vague notion there were complaints, and don't get to vote here anyway so didn't pay much attention. I had no idea how credible the complaint was, esp with multiple people on the record confirming what Reade told them contemporaneous with the assaults. Not to mention that Larry King call! Didn't think much of Biden before but he's sunk even lower. As for what to do going forward, I'm interested in learning what others suggest. IMO practically speaking Biden has unfortunately got away with it. At the very least holding Harris accountable for her complicity when she inevitably runs for president is necessary. What to do about all the liberals who dismiss assault claims when politically convenient seems like a hard problem.
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Mar 11, 2021 23:20
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Unfortunately I think that we're 2 presidential elections away before we can get away from anyone tainted by their complicity in either assaulting Tara Reade or covering it up. Either Biden or Harris will run in 2024 and the Party is going to put it's weight behind one of those to candidates. 2028 is the next opportunity to pick a candidate that doesn't have a credible allegation of sexual assault against them.
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Mar 12, 2021 00:27
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Nocturtle posted:At the very least holding Harris accountable for her complicity when she inevitably runs for president is necessary. What to do about all the liberals who dismiss assault claims when politically convenient seems like a hard problem. Well, to start with, abusers make it into office and stay there because people will rationalize that they have other redeeming qualities or the other guy is worse but ask yourself this: if Joe Biden was credibly accused of murder, would people still have voted for him? I don't think so. I think people excuse abuse of women in their leaders because it's normalized in a way that other types of violence are not. People are continuing to minimize and excuse his and other abusers' behavior. Look at the Twittersphere around Cuomo; it's verging into Q-level poo poo that this is all an op to get Their Guy out of the way for some reason or other. The people who want their team to win because it's their team and to their advantage (or perceived advantage) if Their Guy gets in, regardless who Their Guy has hurt and will continue to hurt, are not going to be swayed by moral arguments on this or any other subject. They'll say whatever they think they need to say in order to put their team in a better position to win; they will only change their requirements for their own team's membership and leadership when it is demonstrably obvious to them that they can't win otherwise. So that makes the solution pretty easy: don't ever vote for someone who has been credibly accused of rape or abuse of women, and make it your responsibility to understand what accusations have been leveled against anyone who you are considering voting for in the same way you would check them out to make sure they don't have "throw babies off a cliff" on their campaign website. Make these behaviors unacceptable for elected officials by unconditionally withholding support. And be vocal about it! Make it clear to everyone you know that you will not support a credibly accused rapist or abuser when you make a decision to withhold your vote. And after you do, don't be gulled by lesser evilism and threats that this particular election must be won at any cost, because those arguments are ever-ready. Tell people you're done voting for rapists and leave it at that.
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Mar 12, 2021 00:39
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One of the things that's really bothered me is when people say "well it was Biden vs Trump" No. It was Biden vs 20 something other democrats in the primary. Every primary voter who bubbled in for Biden directly voted to put a rapist into power. There were much better people to chose to put forward and they chose a rapist. Every single person who voted for Biden in the primary is a disgusting person.
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Mar 12, 2021 00:58
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silicone thrills posted:Every single person who voted for Biden in the primary is a disgusting person. Err, this might be a bit hyperbolic. Tara Reade did not come out with the sexual assault / rape allegations until March 25, 2020 which is after Super Tuesday. https://www.axios.com/timeline-tara-reade-joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegations-6b98958f-4a78-4b28-8ca8-783285a5ce9c.html Prior to that she and other women accused him of sexual harassment and inappropriate touching (hands on neck and shoulders, etc) and comments, but the allegations of rape did not come out until after quite a few primary voters had cast their ballots.
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Mar 12, 2021 01:10
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I became aware of Bidens inability to understand personal space in the 2000s and paid attention when women came forward in 2019 about it as well. Only a few states had voted when Tara made it clear it was rape https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/2020-state-primary-election-dates.aspx#Chronological There were a million other reasons to absolutely not consider Biden acceptable before that but the way he's always treated women, gotten up in their space, grabbed their faces, arms, etc on camera should have been plenty. People who think its acceptable to do that poo poo in public are absolutely a million times worse behind closed doors in my experience.
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Mar 12, 2021 01:22
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silicone thrills posted:I became aware of Bidens inability to understand personal space in the 2000s and paid attention when women came forward in 2019 about it as well. Only a few states had voted when Tara made it clear it was rape I still feel you're condemning a ton of Biden primary voters unfairly. It wasn't a few states, there were 28 state primaries (including a bunch of large ones like California, Illinois, Florida, Michigan, Texas) before Reade came forward with rape allegations on March 25th. Those voters weren't voting for a credibly accused rapist, at that point he'd been accused of inappropriate touching (neck, shoulders etc) and comments. You seem to be arguing that the earlier (pre March 25th) allegations should have been disqualifying which I won't disagree with. But you're calling a lot of people "disgusting" for voting "directly... to put a rapist into power" when they cast their votes before Tara Reade went public with rape allegations. (I'm in South Dakota which had its primary well afterward, so I'm not posting to defend a pre-25th Biden vote for whatever that's worth)
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Mar 12, 2021 01:55
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The things Biden had been doing before Tara came out would have been enough to get anyone fired for sexual harassment at their job. Seriously. If someone touched my face with out my permission at my work, I would absolutely file a compliant with HR immediately. Its not acceptable to just touch other people like that. Hand shakes? sure. Face, neck, back, etc? no. gently caress no. Edit: Sure if you want to me to amend my statement: Anyone who voted for Joe Biden in the primaries was 100% voting for a sexual harasser and they are disgusting for it. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 02:01
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silicone thrills posted:The things Biden had been doing before Tara came out would have been enough to get anyone fired for sexual harassment at their job. Absolutely. You knew what you were getting if you pulled the trigger for him during the primaries. At the time, Biden's repeated violations of personal space--of women, always women--were well known, and were often excused as old timey retail politician or "grandpa" behavior: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/01/biden-1246920 quote:Longtime Democratic donor Susie Tompkins Buell, 76, has met Joe Biden several times over the years and says he's a hand-holder and a hugger; physically, but innocently, affectionate. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/04/25/does-joe-biden-have-woman-problem/ quote:There are a lot of advantages that come from being the highest-ranking Democrat to run for president. But former vice president Joe Biden enters the 2020 presidential race Thursday with a potential major pitfall: his record with women. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47806148 quote:Joe Biden has pledged to be "more mindful" about physical contact with women, hoping to draw a line under a controversy that has clouded his expected White House bid. Building a "human connection" by kissing a grown-rear end woman on the head. Give me a loving break.
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Mar 12, 2021 02:32
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Video footage of Biden building human connections with constituents https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcjJn1i6D_I
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Mar 12, 2021 02:59
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PeterCat posted:Unfortunately I think that we're 2 presidential elections away before we can get away from anyone tainted by their complicity in either assaulting Tara Reade or covering it up. Either Biden or Harris will run in 2024 and the Party is going to put it's weight behind one of those to candidates. This kind of buy-in to the contrived games empowers the sociopaths and predators. If you do not truly believe this is inevitable, avoid fatalistic phrasing. These events are years away and can be opposed.
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Mar 12, 2021 03:09
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Corky Romanovsky posted:This kind of buy-in to the contrived games empowers the sociopaths and predators. If you do not truly believe this is inevitable, avoid fatalistic phrasing. These events are years away and can be opposed. You can also just not vote for rapists and refuse to be gulled into providing cover for one because another one might be worse. That is and will continue to be an option that is available.
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Mar 12, 2021 03:21
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Corky Romanovsky posted:This kind of buy-in to the contrived games empowers the sociopaths and predators. If you do not truly believe this is inevitable, avoid fatalistic phrasing. These events are years away and can be opposed. I'm not and have not voted for Biden or Harris, i was voicing my opinion on how the next teo elections will play out.
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Mar 12, 2021 03:53
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silicone thrills posted:One of the things that's really bothered me is when people say "well it was Biden vs Trump" No. It was Biden vs 20 something other democrats in the primary. Every primary voter who bubbled in for Biden directly voted to put a rapist into power. There were much better people to chose to put forward and they chose a rapist. in the interest of this thread not sucking and turning into huge stupid slapfights, don't generalize like this please
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Mar 12, 2021 04:32
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A vote for Kamala would have been better.
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Mar 12, 2021 04:51
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Herstory Begins Now posted:in the interest of this thread not sucking and turning into huge stupid slapfights, don't generalize like this please how is it wrong? Voting for Biden objectively meant taking these credible issues and going 'eh, gently caress it though' including during the primary.
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Mar 12, 2021 05:06
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sexpig by night posted:how is it wrong? Voting for Biden objectively meant taking these credible issues and going 'eh, gently caress it though' including during the primary. I guess you could carve out an exemption for anyone who hasn’t exposed themselves to news since 1990. Otherwise, yeah, IDGI. Looking past Biden’s issues during a primary where there were other viable candidates is bad.
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Mar 12, 2021 05:20
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yea I mean I guess apologies to people who actively don't consume news but at least here on this dead gay forum where we're all news poisoned nobody didn't know about them, I think it's fair to say much like any Trump voter had to somehow rationalize setting aside his outright bigotry and violence, any Biden voter had to do the same with his history of many things including sexual misconduct.
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Mar 12, 2021 05:29
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I dont think it's unfair to point out that unless you literally lived under a rock, there was no way to not know that Biden was a harasser. Every late night TV show even made fun of it! I can't wait to see what horrible ways late night TV makes fun of Cuomo. You think it will be on the next SNL?
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Mar 12, 2021 07:30
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sexpig by night posted:how is it wrong? Voting for Biden objectively meant taking these credible issues and going 'eh, gently caress it though' including during the primary. sexpig by night posted:Voting for Biden objectively meant taking these credible issues and going 'eh, gently caress it though' But did you read the post that HSBN was actually responding to? It alleges that anybody who voted for Biden is "disgusting". Disgust is a reflexive verb, so to say something is "disgusting" can't ever be "objectively" true. Furthermore, voter turnout was 67%, and 98% of those who voted voted for somebody credibly accused of rape. If you want to start your political arguments from the perspective that at a minimum two thirds of Americans are "disgusting", that's your right, but it's going to make a lot of people hate and ignore you. Additionally, there are a gently caress ton of people who voted for Biden (and probably even people who voted for Trump) who you would not call disgusting to their face and would be embarrassed if somebody told them that you thought they were "disgusting". Like some kindly grandmother of 20 who marched for Civil Rights, or somebody who works three minimum wage jobs to take care of a disabled partner, or somebody who spent weeks on the street last summer protesting police. All flattened out to "disgusting", in this telling. I'm comfortable saying that the fact we had two people credibly accused of rape on our major party tickets is "disgusting" but affixing that label to, you know, a large majority of people, isn't a way to maintain what has been a reasonably good discussion about a difficult topic. "People vote for rapists" is a societal problem, and if you turn it into an individual one, all you're going to do is push people away.
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Mar 12, 2021 14:31
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Mellow Seas posted:If you want to start your political arguments from the perspective that at a minimum two thirds of Americans are "disgusting", that's your right, but it's going to make a lot of people hate and ignore you. Hence why this thread is mostly three posters strenuously nodding their heads in agreement ad infinitum while it is otherwise mostly dead, even though this is a serious issue.
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Mar 12, 2021 15:41
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