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Ahh. That makes sense. Thanks.  Josef bugman posted:I liked to see him acting a bit, like the Robert Graves version of Claudius. He's still alive at the end of it all because "hahaha I have to pretend I am dumb as soup or I am getting loving murdered". quote:Zhang Liao led a charge against Sun Quan’s forces the next day. Though Sun Quan’s forces outnumbered him 125/1, absolutely nothing could stop him. That day, Zhang Liao personally killed several dozen men, including two of Sun Quan’s generals. Hao Zhao personally killed Chen Wu, the commander of Sun Quan’s bodyguards. There was no one who could stand in Zhang Liao’s way. As his tiny force slaughtered everyone in reach, many Wu soldiers and veteran generals broke and ran. Even generals like Song Qian and Xu Sheng fled, terrified by Zhang Liao’s superhuman might. Liao cut his way through Sun Quan’s army, driving through the vanguard ind into the very center, right to Sun Quan’s camp. Sun Quan himself fled to a nearby hill and surrounded himself with all of the guards he could possibly find. It goes on even further but basically Zhang Liao kicks major rear end and is the top badass in Wei, no contest.
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Mar 6, 2021 21:51
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https://the-archlich.tumblr.com/3k_spotlight Is worth checking out as well, especially the Shu section. Why they always get lovely ads is beyond me. Give me Liao Hua, Zhang Ni and Wang Ping, drat it! 
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Mar 6, 2021 21:57
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Has anyone made a mod that gives some of the people being born a legendary lord trait so that the new generation also is fun to play?
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Mar 6, 2021 22:38
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Flipswitch posted:Ahh. That makes sense. Thanks. One of the problems with history in general is that it's very biased in favor of winners, because mostly the winners are writing the history, or the person writing the history is looking to ingratiate themselves with the winners. And of course the winners succeeded because they were fundamentally superior to the also-rans(morally and otherwise), and not just because they were luckier and certainly not because they were more ruthless/evil!
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Mar 6, 2021 22:53
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Party In My Diapee posted:Has anyone made a mod that gives some of the people being born a legendary lord trait so that the new generation also is fun to play?
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Mar 6, 2021 23:00
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Vichan posted:https://the-archlich.tumblr.com/3k_spotlight Eh, I see what people were saying with "this dude sounds arrogant". I do like the info though! Thanks folks!
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Mar 6, 2021 23:03
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Flipswitch posted:Ahh. That makes sense. Thanks. a couple years ago i was reading Imperial Warlord – A Biography of Cao Cao and even though he didnt really spend much time talking about individuals that weren't cao cao and like xun yu/guo jia, he had a little writeup on zhang liao where he talked about how even though he has some reputation of being a complete bad rear end (which he does) he singled him out among wei's generals as uniquely diplomatically and intellectually capable as well. was honestly the real deal and its kind of a shame he sometimes gets overlooked. i wish i could buy the loving book for cheaper than $300, i ultimately had to transfer across the city with the library system so i could read it over two weeks and because it was such an annoying book to get they wouldnt even let me extend that lol. extremely good read though for anyone here who can get their hands on it, has an academic lean but isnt dry enough to be annoying edit: that writeup on him on that website is a bit uh, enthusiastic Verviticus fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 23:30
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:
this isn't true, and definitely not for the rot3k era
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Mar 6, 2021 23:54
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Davincie posted:this isn't true, and definitely not for the rot3k era Yeah, though it's interesting how cultural context changes it. Like I can't read CaoCao as anything but the hero, while the text does it's best to paint him as the villain.
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Mar 7, 2021 00:08
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History it turns out is written by whoever wrote the history and by historical accident writing about the three kingdoms has been dominated by a long line of people with various reasons to be extremely pro-shu, not Pro-Winner.
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Mar 7, 2021 00:16
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:Yeah, Zhang Liao was completely ridiculous, even historically. Sun Quan, on the other hand, was a massive drunken rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 7, 2021 00:27
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Immediate history is written by the victor but as time goes on it does change to benefit whoever is in charge There is actually a good podcast history of England that goes through how each king was perceived as time moved forward and why it changed to fit the opinions of the time as an example
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Mar 7, 2021 00:30
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The author of the contemporary work 'Records of the three kingdoms' was a shu officer who was demoted and sent to Jin where he eventually got employed. Even for a relatively (compared to rotk) straightforward account of the era you still had some personal biases. quote:Chen Shou's father was a military adviser to the Shu general Ma Su. When Ma Su was executed by Zhuge Liang after his failure at the Battle of Jieting in 228, Chen Shou's father was implicated and sentenced to kun (髡), a punishment involving the shaving of a person's head. Zhuge Zhan belittled Chen Shou before. When Chen Shou wrote the biographies of Zhuge Liang and Zhuge Zhan in the Sanguozhi, he commented on them as follows: Military leadership was not Zhuge Liang's forte, and he lacked the resourcefulness of a brilliant military leader; Zhuge Zhan excelled only in literary arts, and he had an exaggerated reputation.
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Mar 7, 2021 01:15
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The Mongols: famously popular, all-time winners that wrote so much history.
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Mar 7, 2021 01:33
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I mean they did, they even had a super secret history that was set up just to play up the successors
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Mar 7, 2021 01:34
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I remember reading that Gongsun was quite a common name and a lot of the Gongsuns weren't actually related, is that true for the Ma as well? And yeah that one blog post is enthusiastic but it's nice to sometimes read someone's passion for a subject. The second group list is also really good. P glad my boy Zhang He is being added, Sentinels are great but I find their retinue a bit awkward sometimes, games encouraging me to keep the Wei Elite Generals in different armies which makes sense I suppose. E: Worth mentioning because I find the various ethnic tribe groups really interesting, but TUP also adds a bunch of Xianbei, Wuhuan and Xiongnu characters (I assume Qiang as well) with their own unique skill trees. Hope they're added in the eventual Northern Chapter Pack.
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Mar 7, 2021 01:34
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:The author of the contemporary work 'Records of the three kingdoms' was a shu officer who was demoted and sent to Jin where he eventually got employed. Even for a relatively (compared to rotk) straightforward account of the era you still had some personal biases. He's not wrong about kongming
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Mar 7, 2021 02:50
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I did like how even in the novels they couldn't rewrite the siege of chencang in a way that made zhuge liang look good. 40-50k men tried to storm a fortress held by 1,000 and the commander of the fortress, Hao Zhao, ate kongming's lunch for weeks on end. Hao Zhao was a pretty cool dude. He had one of my favorite cold lines in history, where a personal friend of his from Shu tried to get him to surrender before the battle. The first time he just more or less tersely but politely told him off and stated that he intended to die defending the fort, the second time he threatened him by going "What I said earlier remains solid. I know you, but my arrow doesn't".
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Mar 7, 2021 06:25
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My take on Liu Bei is that while he is portrayed as the most virtuous leader in history he is really the greatest conman in history.
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Mar 7, 2021 10:16
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Most people's perception of the Eastern Front in WW2 is extremely skewed because we used to rely heavily on German accounts. History is written by writers. Stanley Tucheetos posted:My take on Liu Bei is that while he is portrayed as the most virtuous leader in history he is really the greatest conman in history. Even in Romance I've always thought of him as this.
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Mar 7, 2021 10:53
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He's definitely a big eared thief.
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Mar 7, 2021 12:02
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Stanley Tucheetos posted:My take on Liu Bei is that while he is portrayed as the most virtuous leader in history he is really the greatest conman in history. Another good and trusted friend of mine started calling Liu Bei "Liu Cockroach" because its almost impossible to actually kill his faction off in 3K and thats how I now refer to him in my head.
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Mar 7, 2021 15:33
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Azran posted:The Mongols: famously popular, all-time winners that wrote so much history. The Mongols became an official imperial dynasty and did a lot of writing
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Mar 7, 2021 15:49
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The winners write history, but not just the present day winners, also the future winners. Some winners write less history than others, some value different things to others and those values change over time to the reader. The use of German accounts of the Eastern Front is because some winners (the West) wanted to create propaganda against the Soviets. The Mongols aren’t an area I know much about, but writers before and after their imperial ascent were probably very much opposed to them. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms favours Shu because of the Southern Song claiming lineage from Shu because they lost the North. That then took on a life of its own, and became kinda entrenched in the culture to a certain degree, and nobody really chose to die on that hill that I know
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Mar 7, 2021 16:27
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Another good and trusted friend of mine started calling Liu Bei "Liu Cockroach" because its almost impossible to actually kill his faction off in 3K and thats how I now refer to him in my head. liu bei being reduced to a single territory and the doomstack of liu bei, guan yu, and zhang fei showing up to vaporize another army anyway is peak shu
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Mar 7, 2021 19:11
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Communist Thoughts posted:The Mongols became an official imperial dynasty and did a lot of writing I completely forgot about the Yuan Dynasty.  Consider me thoroughly dunked.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:19
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Dammit why can't the new update be here already? I have such an itch to play, but I can't bring myself to start a game that'll be useless in just a couple days.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:49
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:The use of German accounts of the Eastern Front is because some winners (the West) wanted to create propaganda against the Soviets. Well, that and the fact that the Soviet archives weren't really all that available to western historians. German accounts is what they had to deal with. Things like the Rommel/Clean Wehrmacht myth were pushed for propaganda purposes though.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:54
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Tiler Kiwi posted:I did like how even in the novels they couldn't rewrite the siege of chencang in a way that made zhuge liang look good. 40-50k men tried to storm a fortress held by 1,000 and the commander of the fortress, Hao Zhao, ate kongming's lunch for weeks on end. On a different note: 
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Mar 8, 2021 00:32
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From Serious Trivia's Ma Teng preview video - holy lol at his starting techs:
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Mar 8, 2021 01:59
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Oh cool so different factions/leaders will start with techs now? Or is that just a thing for the DLC start dates?
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Mar 8, 2021 02:10
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:From Serious Trivia's Ma Teng preview video - holy lol at his starting techs: Eh it's fine. Ma Teng is in the fun situation that he just needs to grab the Silk techs to stabilise his economy, and later Red techs are honestly amazing.
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Mar 8, 2021 02:22
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lurksion posted:Oh cool so different factions/leaders will start with techs now? Or is that just a thing for the DLC start dates? Blooming Brilliant posted:Eh it's fine. Ma Teng is in the fun situation that he just needs to grab the Silk techs to stabilise his economy, and later Red techs are honestly amazing.
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Mar 8, 2021 04:13
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Later start dates get more tech yeah. Tengs kids all seem to have sibling rivalry issues which will be fun to navigate. Ma Dai and Pang De really need some art though.
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Mar 8, 2021 04:17
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Double post but watching the ST video. The new Sun Ce campaign looks kinda crappy. Low luck and you only will gain +2 net so you spend ages building up his bonuses.
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Mar 8, 2021 14:52
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Flipswitch posted:Double post but watching the ST video. The new Sun Ce campaign looks kinda crappy. Low luck and you only will gain +2 net so you spend ages building up his bonuses. Yeah because he should be dead
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Mar 8, 2021 14:55
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What happens if he dies in his campaign? is it game-over or do you just lose access to his mechanic?
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Mar 8, 2021 15:29
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Doing a liu biao playthrough now, it's incredible how much it snowballs. Planning out your vassals and making sure they're handpicked idiots who will be forever loyal is fun. I'm nearing the end, and I got into a fight with liu bei who got a very early kingship. Even to the end he was still very much friends with me at like 300+ disposition. Until we met on the battlefield and i somehow captured liu bei, guan yu, and Zhang fei all in the same battle. It hurt to triple click execute, but I would rather not fight any of them again. Plus, cool weapons!Flipswitch posted:What happens if he dies in his campaign? is it game-over or do you just lose access to his mechanic? You keep the same mechanics regardless of leader death
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Mar 9, 2021 06:50
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I've recently starte Big Eared Thief rear end in a top hat playthrough, and I was wondering how much will the new patch affect ongoing campaign: will I get the new sweet title progression options? I'm doing almost as good as it's possible to start his campaign, and wouldn't want to restart now.
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Mar 9, 2021 11:10
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alex314 posted:I've recently starte Big Eared Thief rear end in a top hat playthrough, and I was wondering how much will the new patch affect ongoing campaign: will I get the new sweet title progression options? I'm doing almost as good as it's possible to start his campaign, and wouldn't want to restart now.
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Mar 9, 2021 14:08
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