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Bad Purchase posted:No, Skype isn't being discontinued. It's fake Skype that's getting discontinued, also known as Skype™ for Business™. This used to be called Microsoft Lync, which they rebranded when they bought Skype, but they didn't actually merge the two projects together. Their similarities end at the logo and blue color scheme. Going back a ways here but wanted to chime in that lync is the worst work software I've ever had the displeasure of using, beating Peoplesoft only because its function is something I'd need to use more frequently and thus giving Lync many more opportunities to fail (it failed a lot)
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Mar 8, 2021 07:25
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Wait, is sick leave unpaid? Are pto days also unpaid?? Is there a single good thing about US employer rights at all? I sweat listening to us Americans talk about their jobs is like listening to abuse victims sometimes, I am so sorry 
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Mar 8, 2021 07:27
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Son of Rodney posted:Wait, is sick leave unpaid? Are pto days also unpaid?? Is there a single good thing about US employer rights at all? The answer is there is no federal guarantee of jack or poo poo but some states are a smidge better and companies always have the option of doing more than the bare minimum with the idea that market competition will result in good bennies without government intervention (lmao). Not even fed holidays are guaranteed pto, so there are plenty of people stuck in the awkward position of wanting to work christmas (or labor day for extra irony) because they can't afford to miss out on 8 hours of pay. I live in washington so for example the bare minimum is 1 hour of paid sick leave per 40 hours worked, for those of you doing pocket math that's about 1 day of pto per two months, and this is one of the more generous policies.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:38
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It's particularly shocking because the US seems to have better union penetration than a lot of other western countries. If they tried to take away paid leave I am sure I wouldn't be the only Australian who'd start torching police cars french-style, and our unions have shriveled away to almost nothing (with the exception of a handful of industries) Also this one will blow your minds: civilised countries have a thing where you get around two months of (paid) time off if you've worked in the same place for around ten years. Some employers even let you transfer your long service leave between organisations. Oh and if you leave without taking it, they have to pay it out. ArbitraryC posted:Yeah I have a relatively high PTO rate for american and that means I'm starting at about 1 week vacation, 1 week sick, 2 floaters, or ~2.5 + the bigger federal holidays. If I work at this company for a bajillion years I think it caps out at 4 week vacation, which would be great, except employee loyalty is incredibly undervalued and sticking at one company basically means forgoing substantial raises. This is just one of those things that results from management doing nothing. When you start at a company, there's a salary negotiation unless it's one of the very rare organisations where jobs are pegged at fixed salaries. This is your best window to push your employer for cash. After that, why would they pay you more to do what you're already doing? You have to go out of your way to push them, with very little leverage other than the ultimatum that if they don't comply you'll quit. Organisations have to actively go out of their way to implement policy otherwise you'll always make more money switching jobs. It's very funny to me that all these shithead boomer bosses scream that millennials have no loyalty. No poo poo, the entire concept of being a "company man" is gone, which explicitly let you build a career from the bottom of the org to the top within one company over your career. Now only fools stick around in the same company.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:44
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Yeah it's not like people wouldn't rather stay at the same place and work with the same people. Even if you hate your coworkers, as long as you can work with them who gives a poo poo. But it's not really viable.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:55
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Son of Rodney posted:Wait, is sick leave unpaid? Are pto days also unpaid?? Is there a single good thing about US employer rights at all? At least for me, sick leave and PTO are merged, and are as it says - paid time off, at normal rate. FMLA pays out at a lower rate for longer. Unscheduled/emergency sick leave is supposed to be unpaid here but my manager fudges it to cover for us. There's plenty good about employer rights... for the employer. Not the employee.
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Mar 8, 2021 08:11
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Yeah, its almost like companies cut all the incentives to stay within an organization long term in the name of cost cutting now must compete with all the employees who jump ship because the only carrot is the salary negotiation. In 10 years I've increased my salary sevenfold while people I worked with at that time who were loyal to companies have maybe doubled or tripled.
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Mar 8, 2021 08:30
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Yup. Was talking to some relatives from the UK and they were baffled Americans get no guaranteed paid leave. They get five weeks minimum. I’m sure there’s more to it but yeah. Same with Canadians not understanding why someone would be trying to raise money for a coworker’s kid’s medical bills. In Spain, as a rule of thumb, it is a paid day off for every full 20 days worked, and you get a month every full year at minimum. For sick leave there aren't any limits but you are required to turn up a doctor's note if your leave is longer than three days (I think). That doesn't mean employers won't try to game the system and fire someone for being sick a lot/try to trick workers out of their paid leave days/whatever else, it is a lovely job market right now. Edited to add: and we still get people coming in sick because they didn't feel so bad/didn't go to the doctor for a note/went to the doc and they said it's no big deal go share that cold with the rest. COVID has put a bit of a stop on that, but we've had employers forcing their workers to come in "because you still haven't tested positive" or hiding the fact that positives were found in a workplace to avoid quarantining. Shellception fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 08:38
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Larry Parrish posted:Yeah it's not like people wouldn't rather stay at the same place and work with the same people. Even if you hate your coworkers, as long as you can work with them who gives a poo poo. But it's not really viable. Yep. Even significant internal promotions are subject to lowball pay rises in my experience, on the basis that you’re not going to turn down a promotion and stay in the same job. You have no negotiating power so they take the piss. It is nuts that this is the case, how did it start and who benefits from making everyone (sane) change jobs every couple of years just to get payrises? Employers save a buck initially, but I’m sure spend way more recruiting replacements. And it makes it impossible to really settle & optimise your life - you’re gonna have a poo poo commute for half your life when you change jobs every 2 years. From a UK perspective the leave situation in the US is horrific, and things like maternity / paternity leave aren’t a thing either there right? In most couples I know, the mother takes a year off after giving birth (mandated) and gets a mandated minimum of 90% pay for 6 weeks, Ł151/week after. Many employers are much more generous (I’ve seen full pay for 6 months). And even that’s poo poo compared to some other Euro countries.
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Mar 8, 2021 08:51
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I'm pretty convinced that the legislated paid time off will be stripped away in my lifetime (Australia). It happened once before with Workchoices. Weekend penalty rates were abolished and it's not even a talking point anymore.
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Mar 8, 2021 08:52
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wooger posted:Yep. Even significant internal promotions are subject to lowball pay rises in my experience, on the basis that you’re not going to turn down a promotion and stay in the same job. You have no negotiating power so they take the piss. This is one of the things in the employer's favour. It's more complicated to leave so you stick around. Even internally I've seen companies that carousel their employees at a management level. 3 years in a role before moving on. Has the nice effect of Year 1: learning and getting integrated into the team, kind of effective Year 2: actually pretty effective Year 3: looking at next role, checks out of current role entirely
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Mar 8, 2021 09:02
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Son of Rodney posted:Deffo a thing in Germany but might be on its way out. Stuff like birth date, family status (single/married) and hobbies are also common. I was quite surprised to learn that many jobs outside of Germany don't expect stuff like pictures, age, and all that. I'd love for that to become standard here, I even heard about some places not wanting gender, heritage or even names and it's sound so much better. From a while back, but this really explains what is happening in my job search. I am currently job-hunting in Germany, and I'm getting zero callbacks from German firms. Just a straight rejection, which is surprising for me because I'm getting instant callbacks from international firms. On paper I should look good to a local firm. I guess it is because I'm not providing enough personal information. I'm not changing it though. Germany is incredibly invasive of privacy. I have a folder on my desktop with all my documents for applying for a house in Germany, and it's called "Identity Theft Kit", because if I had that much information on someone else, I could clean out their bank account and open a few credit cards in their name. Eeeek.
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Mar 8, 2021 12:24
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Pocket Billiards posted:I'm pretty convinced that the legislated paid time off will be stripped away in my lifetime (Australia). It happened once before with Workchoices. Weekend penalty rates were abolished and it's not even a talking point anymore. Yeah unless something radical happens in our awful politics I suspect you're right. In spite of everyone here constantly remarking how poo poo the US is we can't help but try to copy them.
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Mar 8, 2021 12:31
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Dongsturm posted:From a while back, but this really explains what is happening in my job search. I am currently job-hunting in Germany, and I'm getting zero callbacks from German firms. Just a straight rejection, which is surprising for me because I'm getting instant callbacks from international firms. On paper I should look good to a local firm. I guess it is because I'm not providing enough personal information. And yet germans will insist on paying as many transactions as possible with cash
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Mar 8, 2021 13:27
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Dongsturm posted:From a while back, but this really explains what is happening in my job search. I am currently job-hunting in Germany, and I'm getting zero callbacks from German firms. Just a straight rejection, which is surprising for me because I'm getting instant callbacks from international firms. On paper I should look good to a local firm. I guess it is because I'm not providing enough personal information. Which is hilarious since we are incredibly paranoid about privacy, at least on paper. If you look at Google streets the entirety of Europe is mapped completely, only Germany is a barren wasteland with a few major cities being mapped. Many opted to obscure their houses too, because, uh, people can't see what their house looks like on the outside. The Corona app we have is deeply mistrusted because of privacy issues too, while everybody is sharing their data freely on Facebook and other services. It's dumb as gently caress but everywhere. In any case applications in Germany are pretty arbitrary and I hate it too, if you don't follow a very specific format you'll not get much feedback if you're not one of a few extremely in demand jobs. There's a reason we are known to follow rules blindly even if they make no sense. The house thing is also true, last time I applied for a appartment in Berlin I included my employment status and yearly salary because my chances were much worse without that. No idea if that is common but I'm guessing no.
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Mar 8, 2021 13:55
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Son of Rodney posted:Wait, is sick leave unpaid? Are pto days also unpaid?? Is there a single good thing about US employer rights at all? They vary mightily by state, that's the only thing I can say. In my state vacation time is considered "earned wages" and while they can cap it (this must be communicated up front, but they can do it) they do have to pay you out for any unused time when you quit or are fired. Sick time and Generic PTO pools do not fall under "earned wages," which is why many companies - especially in tech/biotech here are moving to "unlimited PTO days" or a combined pool. It saves them.* I work in higher education and get a full 4 weeks vacation (after 10 years, it used to be 3) and I have months of unusable sick time like a healthy teacher. But I am losing so much money salary wise. I am interviewing for a private sector job that's a -step down in title- and a 50% raise. The time off is sort of nice (we are like everyone else understaffed & it's hard to take), especially the guaranteed holidays. But there are plenty of fields with federal holidays, like anything connected to finance. *There are also rules, I don't know if they are internal policies or State policies, regarding keeping employee vacation day money on hand, so not having to do this likely saves them a bunch of HR/accounting. bus hustler fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 14:32
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Larry Parrish posted:Yeah it's not like people wouldn't rather stay at the same place and work with the same people. Even if you hate your coworkers, as long as you can work with them who gives a poo poo. But it's not really viable. Yes this is a big problem at my job. There is no way to move up at all - they have told me that. I will never, ever get a raise that isn't just COL. They do not give bonuses. No merit raises, nothing. I cannot do my boss' job, we aren't structured where her job is my next step. She has an MBA and does a lot of contract stuff. edit: Pegged to US inflation I have received a total of 1.1% salary growth in 6 years at my job. Since we live in a high COL area it's actually -0.3% compared to the city. bus hustler fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 14:38
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At my job we get 14 holidays, 3 personal holidays, some amount of bereavement days, and pto itself accumulates fast enough depending on your length of employment. I think I'm getting roughly one-two days a month, but I know the highest tier of accrual (10 years of working for the company) gets essentially a month of pto every year. But the pay mostly sucks compared to other equivalent jobs, unless you're related to someone or end up a director thru attrition. The equivalent of my position at the nearest most comparable org makes $6k more a year then me for comparable benefits. That was after my raise, before it they'd have been making more like $15k more a year. When I was hired my job had been open for a month and a half. The prior employee left after a month or two because they got an interview for a much better job elsewhere, and the person before that did the same. The pay stunk but I needed a job so I took it. I tried to negotiate pay at the interview since I was fresh out of college and figured I was worth more, and I was told since the position is grant funded the pay wasn't negotiable, but that we could up it during the next grant cycle. I found out later my boss was lying to me and that when they floated the position after the 2nd person quit that year HR said they had to offer more and that there was a pay range written into the grant, but my former boss ignored HR and went over them somehow. He was fired for something unrelated a few months in.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:41
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bus hustler posted:They vary mightily by state, that's the only thing I can say. In my state vacation time is considered "earned wages" and while they can cap it (this must be communicated up front, but they can do it) they do have to pay you out for any unused time when you quit or are fired. US PTO is stupid complex. I've worked jobs where it was considered part of your compensation and so unused time that didn't roll over was paid out, but also worked places where it just disappears and you don't get anything for not using it. I've also had a policy where you got paid for the unused time and could roll over a number of hours of unused vacation to the next year and take them as unpaid time off. At that job you earned vacation hours based on how many hours you worked up to whatever your limit was starting January 1st and ending December 31st, rather than having them allocated at the start of the year. The personal days were on a different calendar where you got them allocated in May and you could roll over a set number of days up to a limit based on seniority. Some managers stipulated that you couldn't use personal days to extend a vacation; to them they were only for sickness, taking care of relatives, doctor's appointments, etc.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:02
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I've tolerated a lot of bad jobs in this system because the amount of PTO I get is relatively nuts. I get 4 weeks of vacation, 2 weeks of sick and I can earn flex time in lieu of OT (at my discretion.) Sometimes Wednesday goes long so Friday is done at noon or so. Soon I'll hit a milestone that bumps my vacation up to 6 weeks a year with 200+ hours of indefinite rollover. I complain a lot about these jobs but taking leave has never been an issue.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:11
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i am lucky enough to have worked for One Of The Good Ones who actually treats their employees not like poo poo. 2 weeks sick, 2 weeks vacation, 2 personal days, 1 volunteer day, and bereavement offered from day 1; at year 5, i got an extra week of vacation. if i had made it to year 10 before the company got sold, would have been 4 weeks vacation. i've never been asked for a doctor's note or any of that nonsense when using sick time. the new company that bought us has basically the same PTO, with the addition of a 4-week sabbatical every 5 years
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Mar 8, 2021 17:17
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I have decent PTO but they are actively working to be sure we can't use it. Over the past year or so the rules for using, and how to not lose the time you have earned have gotten more complex. Say I get 3 weeks off a year, so 120 hours. You can roll over 100 hours every year, and lose anything over 100. A lot of people roll over 100 hours because time off is also sick time, and there are lots of rules about when you can take it. Must request at least 2 weeks before, must not be other people taking time off, etc. The way your time increments is you get time each month. So 120 hours is 15 days, so you get 1.25 days a month, or 10 hours a month. However, if you have over 120 hours saved up, you stop accruing time. So if you roll over 100 hours, and do not take any time off the first 2 months, you lose a day and a quarter vacation in March. That lost time does not sit there waiting for you to take time off. It's gone. Lots of people take a day or 2 off in Jan or Feb for no other reason than to not lose vacation. If you schedule time off over the summer ahead of time, that time comes off when you take it, so you still have to take days off leading up to your vacation or you stop accruing. You really have to take a week or more off at a time or else the constant accrual will mean you just have to take days off to take days off. You can only schedule time off if you have the hours. If you want to schedule a week off, you need to have 40 hours saved up. If you are scheduling the time months away, that 40 hours does not come off your accrued time, but you have to keep at least that much in your time bank. If you schedule too much time off, you will almost definitely lose time, as you have to keep the time in your bank to be able to use it, but it still counts against the 120 hours. At the end of the year there is a log jam of people trying to take time off so as to not lose time due to the 100 days max roll over, but only so many people can be off at once, and you cannot take the time off if you have not accrued it, so folks that did not roll over much and took a decent summer vacation may not be able to schedule holiday time until it is too late. Just typing this up is exhausting.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:21
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See, a lot of folks at my work, especially those who have been around forever, are always at their rollover cap so December is effectively a month off. Even if I don't take any time off, no one else is around so I just monitor emails, take a couple calls and that's it. It should be an issue but since the majority of people do it, projects are managed around this expectation.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:26
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My dad was a teacher for around 20 years, and he never used his sick time. It had unlimited rollover and he said by the end he could take an entire year off with sick time..which was fortunate, because he got cancer and had to take most of a year off for treatment. Hes retired now and told me at this point he makes more money then when he was working, due to having two pensions (teaching and military). He always espouses the important of me saving as much as I can right away, because there's no way I'm gonna get as good a retirement as he did.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:27
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Son of Rodney posted:Wait, is sick leave unpaid? Are pto days also unpaid?? Is there a single good thing about US employer rights at all? Not usually. There is such a thing as "unpaid days" off, which would be when you use up your sick time. And there are probably helljobs out there that don't pay sick days, but I've never had one. PTO is right in the name, it has to be paid for it to be PTO. My work is pretty generous overall, we don't have a ton of discretionary PTO but we get huge breaks at certain times of the year like Christmas/New Years, Thanksgiving, etc. Totals about a month and a half, I'd guess. And I can (or used to be able to, anyways) take unpaid days if I want to extend that. Son of Rodney posted:Lol yeah if I see someone working for 60+ hours a week for no good reason I definitly admire them instead of thinking they're pitiable people who got brainwashed into seeing work as the point of living. Work already takes up nearly 25% of the hours in a week, and many of the remaining hours are when you sleep. I'm not giving them anything more than that, and you're right I do not admire anyone who does such. The opposite of admire, actually
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Mar 8, 2021 17:30
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16-bit RDRAM posted:Going back a ways here but wanted to chime in that lync is the worst work software I've ever had the displeasure of using, beating Peoplesoft only because its function is something I'd need to use more frequently and thus giving Lync many more opportunities to fail (it failed a lot) The Lync predecessor OCS was the fuckin poo poo and i'm still salty about the Lync transition. Of course we're using GSuite now and i'd give my left nut for either Teams or Zoom at this point and the MS Office suite
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Mar 8, 2021 17:33
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Thanks for the explanations of PTO and sick days and so on, it really sounds quite arbitrary and complicated.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:34
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I have no idea how you stay sane with such minimal holiday per year.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:39
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My current job has a total of around 8 weeks paid time off if you count holidays, with some time limited rollover of parts of it. When I was young and desperate, I worked a factory job where taking more than one day off for any reason or being even one second late more than once were both fireable offenses with no resetting. So yeah, America is a land of contrasts, mostly geared towards loving over those who can least afford it.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:39
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Son of Rodney posted:Thanks for the explanations of PTO and sick days and so on, it really sounds quite arbitrary and complicated. See we have PTO, and sick leave is basically lumped with PTO accrual at my company so they're one in the same. Hope you didn't get sick after ur vacation. But then in addition to PTO we have bereavement leave, which happens when a close family member dies and u submit..a thing? To ur boss? Idk I havent used it. Enough people r related here that everyone tends to take bereavement at once, leading to admin just giving all staff paid leave for that day since most aren't in anyway. We also get 3 paid personal holidays, which we have to use as a whole day at a time and not 24 extra pto hours. Official policy is u can't use PTO to drag out a vacation past paid holidays, but everyone does it anyway and no cares. We also have flex time, which allows u to make up hours u may have to miss but don't/can't use pto on. Like leaving early for a dr one day, but then staying late to make up for it and get your full 40. It also goes both ways, so if u end up having to work a 10 then u can work a 6 the next day. Now that u understand the difference between pto, personal holidays, bereavement leave, and flex time, let me continue this employee orientation by teaching you the allocation system, and why its broken/why we lie
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Mar 8, 2021 17:45
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goatface posted:I have no idea how you stay sane with such minimal holiday per year. Well hey now, loads of us earn plenty of vacation but can't go anywhere because our wages are so low! I took my first real vacation in 17 years a little bit ago because I saved up like a motherfucker, planned WAY in advance and cut every corner possible. That's why I mostly take long weekends. There's just no point in expecting a real holiday when you can't afford much of anything. America the beautiful!
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Mar 8, 2021 17:46
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goatface posted:I have no idea how you stay sane with such minimal holiday per year. A sane, working American is a unicorn.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:47
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goatface posted:I have no idea how you stay sane with such minimal holiday per year. We don't. Son of Rodney posted:Thanks for the explanations of PTO and sick days and so on, it really sounds quite arbitrary and complicated. 50 states, 51 different policies, plenty of latitude for companies to do better or worse than others. It's complex and any two goons can be in radically different legal and economic circumstances. At least in my case, the PTO and benefits are minimal because holy poo poo these people are about to run the company into the ground for the third time in a decade, they don't have the money for great benefits when they don't even have the money to fund their ill advised ventures. That's why I'm still looking for an out. Unfortunately not many outs to take for me.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:51
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titty_baby_ posted:My dad was a teacher for around 20 years, and he never used his sick time. It had unlimited rollover and he said by the end he could take an entire year off with sick time..which was fortunate, because he got cancer and had to take most of a year off for treatment. hey 'just' do 20 years active duty! i've been out for 5 years and i still have people telling me i should go back in for the retirement lmfao.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:03
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Larry Parrish posted:hey 'just' do 20 years active duty! I've worked with enough 20 year retired vets and it sure does seem like a sweet deal if you rank up enough and get out young enough. Had one dude that was kinda cagey about his service but said he got decently high up, did his 20 and makes about 4K a month on that alone. Said he only worked because his mom needed some expensive medical stuff done. I had no reason not to believe him, since other vets confirmed his service but I personally could never be active that long, or ever. I have too much of a mouth that I'd get my teeth knocked out on day one.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:08
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My PTO is fine but I have really regressive exempt overtime even within the same company. Division heads are like please to be comp timing to avoid burnout. Meanwhile noone I know can tell me what I actually put into the time clock for comp time because it's not a written policy anywhere public and the bosses probably get bonuses when we meet targets so they aren't going to be in a hurry to find out what dicking around time code should be used. Past two years have averaged >40 hours a week while taking all 3 weeks PTO and 2 weeks holiday. Goal/standard for my seniority is 37. I put up with a lot of poo poo for travel limits and least likely to get PIPed into the contracting world for sand bagging at contributor and team manager level.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:08
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Larry Parrish posted:hey 'just' do 20 years active duty! Lol he was only in initially so he didn't get put somewhere worse during the nam draft, and he stayed in because he did the typical young enlisted routine of "get immediately married to your high school sweetheart and have a kid". He still has an irrational hatred of lines and hes never recommended the military to me.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:12
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buttchugging adderall posted:We had a director literally congratulate people by name for taking very few days off last year during our department monthly meeting. My last job and three jobs ago had people being congratulated for the same thing, and for working 50+ hour weeks. Absolutely insane. Two jobs ago was the complete opposite. My first week there, I asked my manager where I put my time in, and he looked at me like I was from another planet, "...What? Get your work done and go home, don't worry about hours." The VP I was under (who is, like, my favorite person ever to work for) told us to not put in long hours because it's not good for anyone, and gave out "off the books" days off when people had to work late. It was such a great place to work, so it was really sad when we got bought out and all that changed.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:35
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Splode posted:It's particularly shocking because the US seems to have better union penetration than a lot of other western countries. The unions have mostly been defanged over the last 50 years, so outside of a few industries they either don't exist or don't provide much value. wooger posted:From a UK perspective the leave situation in the US is horrific, and things like maternity / paternity leave aren’t a thing either there right? In most couples I know, the mother takes a year off after giving birth (mandated) and gets a mandated minimum of 90% pay for 6 weeks, £151/week after. Many employers are much more generous (I’ve seen full pay for 6 months). And even that’s poo poo compared to some other Euro countries. There's no federal requirement for maternity leave, different states have different rules but 2 weeks is considered "good". I was given 3 months for paternity leave, which was considered unimaginable for most people, though my workplace has recently pushed maternity/paternity up to 6 months if I recall. That's the biggest flaw of use it or lose it, workplaces with that just end up with no one actually working in December. goatface posted:I have no idea how you stay sane with such minimal holiday per year. We don't, but we don't even have a minimum wage that's remotely close to a living wage in much of the country. We've had effectively no representation of the American people for decades. The choice is either poo poo lib Democrats, who may give a token handout but usually won't make things worse, or the Republican party whose only goals have been to both cut taxes, mostly for the wealthy, and cut government services for people. Lately they've just been doing more outright fascism though, since their party platform in 2020 was literally "whatever we had last year, and whatever Trump says". There is no third party, because first past the post elections of direct representation mean that it's effectively not possible, and most incumbents aren't voted out so they couldn't care less what we think. America has been described as turning into "a third world country with a Gucci belt" and that's just becoming more and more apt as the nation crumbles while it gets looted by the wealthy.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:44
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titty_baby_ posted:Lol he was only in initially so he didn't get put somewhere worse during the nam draft, and he stayed in because he did the typical young enlisted routine of "get immediately married to your high school sweetheart and have a kid". He still has an irrational hatred of lines and hes never recommended the military to me. my grandpa was going to do this but they were absolutely dead set on making him go to nam again after a tour at mcmurdo and he just never reupped since his draft period was over.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:49
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