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Hellblazer187 posted:Is there a term for like, the bad guy version of the Ace of the company? Like when Hunter was on top in WWE for 10 years, or Flair in NWA/WCW. I feel like "company ace" should be a babyface most of the time. Even in a company that typically has faces on top - what would a guy like Edge have been called while Cena was ace? The logic is that it's not the King/Queen, which is whoever your men's/women's champions are at the time, and it's not the Ace who carries the company long-term with or without the title, but it's still within the royal family and represents the bastard character. That also tracks with the Jack card also being known as the "Knave", which is a rogue/villain archetype.
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Mar 6, 2021 18:56
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sticklefifer posted:I can't remember where I read this, but I remember someone (a wrestling columnist maybe) years ago calling the long-term top heel position "The Jack", and it always stuck with me. That's pretty good.
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Mar 6, 2021 19:18
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sticklefifer posted:I can't remember where I read this, but I remember someone (a wrestling columnist maybe) years ago calling the long-term top heel position "The Jack", and it always stuck with me. OK well this is the right answer then. I love it.
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Mar 6, 2021 21:04
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Does a clip of Chris Warren's version of "Star Spangled Banner" from WrestleMania XIV exist? I've never actually seen it.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:55
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I know I've heard plenty of American examples over the years, but are there many Japanese wrestlers who are/were notoriously difficult to work with?
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Mar 8, 2021 18:39
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FakePoet posted:I know I've heard plenty of American examples over the years, but are there many Japanese wrestlers who are/were notoriously difficult to work with? Koji Kitao was an absolute nightmare, iirc
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Mar 8, 2021 18:53
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Alaois posted:Koji Kitao was an absolute nightmare, iirc I remember hearing about his match with John Tenta, where he stopped selling his moves and then grabbed a mic saying wrestling is fake, and got fired. He also said something racist towards Riki Choshu (who is zainichi korean),which got him fired from NJPW earlier. He was also apparently one of the worst yokozunas in sumo wrestling, never winning a championship before or after his promotion. (Correct me if I’m wrong on this)
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Mar 8, 2021 19:06
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FakePoet posted:I know I've heard plenty of American examples over the years, but are there many Japanese wrestlers who are/were notoriously difficult to work with? Akira Maeda is the first name that comes to mind as having a rep for maybe going into business for himself, but he argued his "shooting" on Riki Choshu was just an accident, he didn't mean to break his orbital bone. Kitao is another one. For more modern guys, I've heard that Hideki Suzuki & Kazuyuki Fujita can both be reluctant to put guys over because hey, I'm a legitimate shooter.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:14
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Aku posted:I remember hearing about his match with John Tenta, where he stopped selling his moves and then grabbed a mic saying wrestling is fake, and got fired. He also said something racist towards Riki Choshu (who is zainichi korean),which got him fired from NJPW earlier. He won a couple of lower division championships. He was basically forced into retirement from sumo because he was an rear end in a top hat to the juniors in his stable & ended up getting chewed out by the gym head & so Kitao stormed out & allegedly hit his coach's wife on the way out. So that it continued into wrestling wasn't a shocker. It's fun to watch his UFC 9 fight against the 185lbs Mark Hall with that in mind.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:23
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FakePoet posted:I know I've heard plenty of American examples over the years, but are there many Japanese wrestlers who are/were notoriously difficult to work with? Early FMW brought in martial artists who weren't wrestlers and were often really hard to work with - aside from Kitao, Ueda was a major league rear end in a top hat to the point where Dr. Luther legit choked him out with a strap because he wouldn't cooperate for the finish. Strong Kobayashi allegedly used to grope people during matches all the time, so I'd count that too.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:30
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Alaois posted:Koji Kitao was an absolute nightmare, iirc The story about him shooting on a US indy guy for acting like a typical ugly American tourist is amazing
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Mar 8, 2021 20:05
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I remember hearing a lot about "brother" YASSHI being a real piece of poo poo backstage, but apparently he turned himself around in the years after he was fired from DG, and then was allowed to come back over a decade later.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:08
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Aku posted:I remember hearing about his match with John Tenta, where he stopped selling his moves and then grabbed a mic saying wrestling is fake, and got fired. He also said something racist towards Riki Choshu (who is zainichi korean),which got him fired from NJPW earlier. he's the only yokuzuna never to win a yusho in his entire career, yes. he only lasted a year due to scandals. he was known to be abusive to his young boys and the final straw was when he allegedly hit his oyakata's wife after an argument which led to his forced resignation. there's rumors he was framed but he was undoubtedly a lovely person from p much all anecdotes of him as either a pro wrestler or a rikishi regardless.
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Mar 9, 2021 04:08
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Did Kensuke Sasaki face charges for the incident with that kid that was recruited by Hiroshi Hase?
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Mar 9, 2021 04:13
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There are so many moves with national qualifiers in their names (Irish Whip, Canadian Backbreaker/Destroyer, European Uppercut, etc). Has there ever been a wrestler with a "worldly"/globetrotting gimmick where they only use those kinds of moves? Done right, it sounds like it could be a really fun character, especially if they had to justify the origin whenever adding a new moves.
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Mar 9, 2021 04:15
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sticklefifer posted:There are so many moves with national qualifiers in their names (Irish Whip, Canadian Backbreaker/Destroyer, European Uppercut, etc). Has there ever been a wrestler with a "worldly"/globetrotting gimmick where they only use those kinds of moves? Done right, it sounds like it could be a really fun character, especially if they had to justify the origin whenever adding a new moves. Given what a student of wrestling he is, that would have been a great gimmick for Chris Hero in WWE if they'd had any interest in using him properly
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Mar 9, 2021 04:17
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CombineThresher posted:Early FMW brought in martial artists who weren't wrestlers and were often really hard to work with - aside from Kitao, Ueda was a major league rear end in a top hat to the point where Dr. Luther legit choked him out with a strap because he wouldn't cooperate for the finish. Godamn. Dr Luther rules.
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Mar 9, 2021 04:55
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El Gallinero Gros posted:The story about him shooting on a US indy guy for acting like a typical ugly American tourist is amazing For reasons I forget, Kitao did a U.S. tour, and it included a Pittsburgh booking against Preston Steele. Steele goes over to Kitao and says “In this country, we work light. Light. Not stiff. Light.” The whole time, he's doing the loud boorish American tourist speaking broken English thing. When he leaves, Kitao turns to Shirley Doe and says some variation of “gently caress him! I speak English; he could have asked.” The match happens, Kitao gives him an uranage onto his his shoulder, separating it, kicks him a bunch, and pins him.
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Mar 9, 2021 04:56
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Being the worst champion ever is a real accomplishment in a sport with records going back over 220 years.
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Mar 9, 2021 05:13
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Edge & Christian posted:There might be some name changes (a la Max and Jeremy Buck) that are letting things slip through the cracks, but some long-standing tag teams I don't see any 1v1 matches between: Wayne Bloom has wrestled Mike Enos, for the 2 of you who might care.
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Mar 9, 2021 05:21
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Thauros posted:he's the only yokuzuna never to win a yusho in his entire career, yes. he only lasted a year due to scandals. he was known to be abusive to his young boys and the final straw was when he allegedly hit his oyakata's wife after an argument which led to his forced resignation. there's rumors he was framed but he was undoubtedly a lovely person from p much all anecdotes of him as either a pro wrestler or a rikishi regardless. Finding it hard to feel bad Mark Hall made his nose explode.
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Mar 9, 2021 14:46
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Subjectively, Is Edge better than Christian?
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Mar 9, 2021 18:06
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TV Zombie posted:Subjectively, Is Edge better than Christian? No
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Mar 9, 2021 18:11
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TV Zombie posted:Subjectively, Is Edge better than Christian? There is more evidence that Edge is better in terms of great matches and angles but you can counter that Christian did not get as many chances and when he did get those chances some of them were booked by Vince Russo. But subjectively, no, right now Christian better.
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Mar 9, 2021 18:15
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I love em both, but Christian was always the worker.
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Mar 9, 2021 18:45
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Edge is the better character, but I feel Christian is the better wrestler
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Mar 9, 2021 19:08
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I think both would be good in AEW, but Christian gets much more of a boost not being booked by Vince because he's got that in-ring brain that gets stifled by the over-scripting of WWE.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:14
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Procrastinator posted:I think both would be good in AEW, but Christian gets much more of a boost not being booked by Vince because he's got that in-ring brain that gets stifled by the over-scripting of WWE. The first time I was ready to quit WWE completely was when Christian won the WHC and then days later dropped it to Orton on TV. Then the pipe bomb segment happened shortly after to keep me in place.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:16
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TV Zombie posted:Subjectively, Is Edge better than Christian? My question in response is: at what? I think that Christian is a better wrestler and a better talker, but Edge has this really strong intangible. I look at Christian and see a great wrestler. I look at Edge and see a star.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:17
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Lamuella posted:My question in response is: at what? Edge didn't need to be a good wrestler to be a star. Christian needed to be a good wrestler to keep his job.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:19
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Halloween Jack posted:Being the worst champion ever is a real accomplishment in a sport with records going back over 220 years. His sumo career was pretty pro wrestlingesque in the politics behind his push and eventual firing. He only got the spot due to an older dude retiring and the bookers deciding they needed someone they could promote as the guy. He got picked as he was a young dude who was doing pretty darn well and had all the makings of a star but hadn’t quite earned it (like Shield Roman). He was probably already a dick, but it really went to his head and he actually had the power to act on it with the promotion. And since he couldn’t live up to the hype in the ring, they cut bait rather than deal with it when they could and since sumo is a one promotion world, jumping to puro is the closest thing to jumping from promotion to promotion after burning bridges.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:45
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Sumo is really between a rock and a hard place with this stuff. It's a sport that highly values tradition and respectability, and the training system is built around these insular stables. And they need there to be at least a couple yokozuna at any given time. So the people who get chosen to represent the sport are champions close to the peak of their career, which typically means that they're like 25 years old and the top dogs of a dojo system that's notorious for hazing. Was Kitao the first yokozuna to be forcibly retired? Hopefully we'll see less of this fratboy poo poo after Asashoryu and Harumafuji.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:12
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Lamuella posted:My question in response is: at what? Fixed that for you.
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Mar 9, 2021 21:17
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Okay. That wasn't what I meant, though.
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Mar 9, 2021 21:23
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TheKingslayer posted:Godamn. Dr Luther rules. He has some great FMW stories, as he was very young and given a push out of nowhere in one of the more insane promotions out there. Jericho brained Ueda with a chair during a match for being an unsafe rear end in a top hat, if I recall correctly.
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Mar 9, 2021 21:40
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Who invented the draping DDT? Was it Randy Orton?
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Mar 9, 2021 22:22
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Suplex Liberace posted:Who invented the draping DDT? Was it Randy Orton?
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Mar 9, 2021 22:25
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davidbix posted:No. It was Bull Pain. I think you'll find, according to WWE records, that Randal Keith Orton has created many moves in his long and storied career: - The RKO - The - RKO through a table - Draping DDT - The Punt - RKOs out of nowhere - The quick little whiparound and pounding on the mat thing to lead up to RKOs - RELEASE THE DOVES pose - Mid-Air RKO Edit: Does anyone have the summary of the proposed storyline where Orton uses a time machine to stop Hulkamania, and an old broken down Hogan has to beat Orton and Hulk Up for the "first" time and reset the timeline to save Hulkamania?
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Mar 9, 2021 22:30
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davidbix posted:No. It was Bull Pain. Thank you bix
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Mar 9, 2021 22:33
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Didn’t he once separate his elbow or shoulder while doing his little slap the mat tantrum?
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Mar 9, 2021 22:40
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