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Yeah, this Meltdown is a huge pain the rear end to try and beat the 'intended' way. Thankfully there is cheese to get us through, yet again 
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Mar 8, 2021 14:02
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the Orb of Zot posted:Obvious solution: have someone hide in the Shelter and let the Arbiter’s hubris catch up to her. You want to release every monstrosity in the facility? Have fun dealing with White Night and Apocalypse Bird at the same time! I think TeeQueue said that Binah is immune to abnormality damage, so you can't cheese it with the Shelter.
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Mar 8, 2021 14:37
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the Orb of Zot posted:Obvious solution: have someone hide in the Shelter and let the Arbiter’s hubris catch up to her. You want to release every monstrosity in the facility? Have fun dealing with White Night and Apocalypse Bird at the same time! That was mentioned in the update, abnormalities can't harm Binah.
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Mar 8, 2021 14:37
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DTaeKim posted:I think TeeQueue said that Binah is immune to abnormality damage, so you can't cheese it with the Shelter. Eopia posted:That was mentioned in the update, abnormalities can't harm Binah. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Mar 8, 2021 14:40
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the Orb of Zot posted:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA For the record, this is the intended response to Binah. Her fight is incredibly mean, and while I could probably do it without needing cheese now, I'm also a significantly better player than I was a couple weeks ago when I started capturing this footage. It's worth saying that I'm drat good, but my gameplay absolutely has holes in it-there was no reason for me to just let the entire drat facility die for free like that!
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Mar 8, 2021 14:43
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I have to say sticking the most disloyal member of the team in the place where they can have access to the most power does seem like a bad idea in hindsight.
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Mar 8, 2021 14:50
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Hunt11 posted:I have to say sticking the most disloyal member of the team in the place where they can have access to the most power does seem like a bad idea in hindsight. What do you mean? Hod doesn't have all that much power. 
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Mar 8, 2021 14:51
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the Orb of Zot posted:Obvious solution: have someone hide in the Shelter and let the Arbiter’s hubris catch up to her. You want to release every monstrosity in the facility? Have fun dealing with White Night and Apocalypse Bird at the same time! Read the update again, particularly the part around when the Mountain of Smiling Bodies escaped. An Arbiter is IMMUNE to all Abnormality damage. Releasing them can only hurt us, and it’s why one of her mechanics is spawning Meltdowns: to let out more problems to deal with on top of her. EDIT: Well I got horribly upstaged. I blame your post being the last on the page so I missed that there was another page. Anyway, when you think about the backstory it makes perfect sense. The Red Mist was taken down after being forced to fight wave after wave of Abnormalities, so she takes double damage from them. However An Arbiter was the one to release them, to use them to her own ends, so of course they cannot harm her. Chaosbrain fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 15:11
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Tried to suppress Binah. Was completely destroyed. I almost beat her second stage, I technically could finish the second stage, but I lost a third of my agents to a pillar, because Binah went up an elevator to the floor where all extras were gathered before firing it, so it would be a restart anyway. I think, this is the stage where people who neglected training all of their agents, relying on a dozen of maxed out agents to carry the game for them, would lose. The need to juggle so many meltdowns requires a ton of active agents. You need to remember to send them, to get them off shelter/return tool/etc, move them back into safezone when they done, attack Binah, run away from Binah, dodge attacks, suppress abnormalities, run away from abnormalities, move your safe zone if Binah comes to the same horizontal level, calm down panicing agents, and most of those actions require capable agents. Even with 30+ agens on site, I did run out of suitable agents in more than one case, forcing me to use someone with inadequate defences.
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Mar 8, 2021 15:59
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Theantero posted:What do you mean? Hod doesn't have all that much power.  Give me an agent until they're level III and I will have them forever.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:08
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Goddamn, that looks absolutely brutal. On the other hand we get Mizu's backstory, what a heckin' cutie! I'm really looking forward to the cheese you have planned TQ, the interesting ways you can break this game over your knee are pretty much one of the best parts.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:09
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Binah's fight is really really nasty, yeah. That said, there are a few really funny ways to cheese her, and I'm looking forwards to TQ showing them off.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:42
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An Arbiter is brutal. As cool as this is, the game really knows how to constantly put the screws to the player.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:50
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Appropriately, Mizu is just as, if not more terrifying than Binah.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:58
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I suspect that the best way to actually handle Binah, appropriately, is to have built your facility from the start for her. Basically a day one reset and taking only non-breaching abnormalities, so that you can focus solely on fighting her. At least no CRAs, other breaching might be fine if you keep them from doing so (or just accept punishing bird's love). You have to reduce her weapons and maximise your own basically.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:05
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TeeQueue posted:For the record, this is the intended response to Binah. Binah is meant (in the traditional response) to pressure every aspect of play. Because of the meltdowns, you have to observe every single abnormality work rule, while managing the Binah fight, and dealing with the facility-wide stuff she can do, and worrying about the spikes leaving employees too weak to actually work a meltdown. You can't deathball her down very effectively, so the fight lasts for a long time. And that's the real kicker: if it takes 30 minutes of play to defeat Binah, you have to respond to every meltdown and every one of her attacks perfectly every time across that period. Even with pausing, that's a challenge. Make one mistake 28 minutes in and you either have to accept the consequences or restart. The two responses to the spikes in the "no tricks" approach to Binah are to spread out employees in corridors, putting them near to abnormalities they want to work and greatly reducing the odds they get spiked, or doing what TeeQueue did and stacking in elevators; you just have to go up or down a floor before the spikes fire. I think I tried the former approach once, and it works great for the spikes and then terribly poorly when she fires pillars. In short (too late), Binah forces you to do a lot of micromanagement with very little forgiveness of mistakes, while sticking you with the dilemma of deciding how many losses are acceptable to finish the suppression.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:44
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Lord_Magmar posted:I suspect that the best way to actually handle Binah, appropriately, is to have built your facility from the start for her. Basically a day one reset and taking only non-breaching abnormalities, so that you can focus solely on fighting her. At least no CRAs, other breaching might be fine if you keep them from doing so (or just accept punishing bird's love). You have to reduce her weapons and maximise your own basically. There are only a dozen or so of non-breaching abnormalities (not counting tools), most of which are ZAYIN and TETH tiers (meaning they would mostly stop appearing when you get to middle and lower departaments). One of which TQ actively resisted taking and another is a TRAIN. EDIT: by non-breaching I mean abnormalities without Quliphoth counter. Because even if Abnormality cannot breach, reducing counter to 0 usually have even worse results. God help you if it lands on -15 or Queen Bee. Fun fact. Judging by the code if you have less that 40 abnormalities there would be 5 overloads instead of 6 because Binah should spawn overloads on 0.15 abnormalities (and it would make it a rare event where Suppression is not just tacked on, but actually integrated in the game proper: overloads are applied by the same function which does it normally on meltdown level change). MiiNiPaa fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 19:45
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Queen Bee would be mostly fine at this point in the game, just put some decently red-tolerant agents and gun down all the clerks in its department first thing and her Qliphoth counter is pretty ignorable.
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Mar 8, 2021 20:56
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I love how she's ... just An Arbiter. She's not unique (or wasn't, before A's fuckery). Can you imagine a team of them, and the threat that would call for that? I continue to be absolutely fascinated by this world.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:03
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I'm mostly wondering where Arbiters come from. Are they just Red Mist-style fighters who happen to get recruited by the Head or are they straight up created somehow. I'm guessing the first since it's probably a pretty good life compared to whatever they were doing before.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:10
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Reiterpallasch posted:Queen Bee would be mostly fine at this point in the game, just put some decently red-tolerant agents and gun down all the clerks in its department first thing and her Qliphoth counter is pretty ignorable. Your supply of bullets is kind of limited, so having to spend a bunch of them on executions first thing isn't great. Binah is probably my favourite core suppression honestly, despite being tough as hell. The really nice thing about her is that she just goes all out immediately, instead of making you go through several easy meltdown periods before becoming challenging. Especially considering she's contrasted with Hokma, who is incredibly slow in comparison.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:13
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:I'm mostly wondering where Arbiters come from. Are they just Red Mist-style fighters who happen to get recruited by the Head or are they straight up created somehow. I'm guessing the first since it's probably a pretty good life compared to whatever they were doing before. It was mentioned in the update that they do have very broad access to Singularities not really available to others, so that is where a significant amount of their prowess comes from, at least. Though I doubt that's all of it, and even if it is all of it, it almost certainly isn't as simple as just suiting up with lvl 100 gear. An incidental setting detail from supplementary materials relating to this, not a spoiler or anything but still tagging it just in case: The Fairies mentioned by Binah in the update are one such Singularity. Produced by F Corp, the Fairies can open anything, literal or conceptual. Used here by Binah to open up people.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:22
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It was mentioned that Arbiters uses Singularities in combat and Rabbit dialogue in fight confirms that her 2 attacks are two weakened Singularities. I am afraid to imagine how strong Binah was before boxifications, and how strong Gebura was to beat her and a bunch of Aleph-level Abnormalities. I have reached stage 3 of Binah fight. Holy hell, I was not prepared for that.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:25
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Onean posted:I love how she's ... just An Arbiter. Ah, but if you give her a cat-ear headband, does she become A Nyarbiter? :3 (filed under 50 failed ways to make Binah mad)
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Mar 8, 2021 21:29
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There's also this game quote: If only I knew what power this place held, we could have acquired it for us to use.Which sort of implies that the Head is not above just looting whatever it finds neat enough. Personally I theorize a lot of their power is all kinds of tech they went full kleptocrats on and are hoarding somewhere for themselves.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:29
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Theantero posted:It was mentioned in the update that they do have very broad access to Singularities not really available to others, so that is where a significant amount of their prowess comes from, at least. Though I doubt that's all of it, and even if it is all of it, it almost certainly isn't as simple as just suiting up with lvl 100 gear. And now I'm wondering how these compare to Aleph-level gear. I'm guessing it's actually a lot better than Aleph gear since Binah is single-handedly beating the poo poo out of many agents equipped with that. Which, yeah, I'm kind of understanding why A decided hiding from the Head was the smarter option.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:52
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:And now I'm wondering how these compare to Aleph-level gear. I'm guessing it's actually a lot better than Aleph gear since Binah is single-handedly beating the poo poo out of many agents equipped with that. Which, yeah, I'm kind of understanding why A decided hiding from the Head was the smarter option. As mentioned it probably depends a lot on how good the person using the EGO is. Most agents have no real combat skill, and have had to learn how to use EGOs in like, a month tops. If you have someone of similar skill to an Arbiter in Aleph gear it'd be a whole other story(See: Gebura).
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Mar 8, 2021 21:57
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:And now I'm wondering how these compare to Aleph-level gear. I'm guessing it's actually a lot better than Aleph gear since Binah is single-handedly beating the poo poo out of many agents equipped with that. Which, yeah, I'm kind of understanding why A decided hiding from the Head was the smarter option.
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Mar 8, 2021 22:00
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Oh yeah, I'd forgotten all about only a fraction of the E.G.O. power actually being used by our agents. Weird seeing as our agents are clearly some of the best of the best humanity has to offer in just about every conceivable way. The very pinnacle of human ability and achievement, physical and mental. To say nothing of the stellar management and leadership of facility X-394.
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Mar 8, 2021 22:08
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I was wondering why the manager was monologuing so much in this update, but then I remembered that Extraction doesn't even have a captain.
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Mar 8, 2021 22:08
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:And now I'm wondering how these compare to Aleph-level gear. I'm guessing it's actually a lot better than Aleph gear since Binah is single-handedly beating the poo poo out of many agents equipped with that. Which, yeah, I'm kind of understanding why A decided hiding from the Head was the smarter option. The thing about Singularites vs. EGO is that it's an entirely different class. EGO gear is not a Singularity - the Well is a Singularity.
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Mar 8, 2021 23:01
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The thing about Singularites vs. EGO is that it's an entirely different class. EGO gear is not a Singularity - the Well is a Singularity. Theantero posted:Which sort of implies that the Head is not above just looting whatever it finds neat enough. Personally I theorize a lot of their power is all kinds of tech they went full kleptocrats on and are hoarding somewhere for themselves.
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Mar 8, 2021 23:33
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Just taking the opportunity to reassure everyone that I was not in fact the one who called Binah.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:31
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Oh yeah, I'd forgotten all about only a fraction of the E.G.O. power actually being used by our agents. I actually wonder a bit about the “best of humanity” thing. I think that L-corp people apply to the job, they are not scouted. The point I am getting at is that our Agents are at the pinnacle...of average joes. They are not the people with years or even decades of combat experience, they are not the ones trained exclusively how to kill, they are not purposefully breed and upgraded through manners biological and possibly mechanical to be at the true pinnacle of strength. We have some of the best amateur athletes fresh out of high school there is. The Head has its pick of Olympians and carrier soldiers to make into its Arbiters and Claws. Remember that our agents have to learn how to do the four work types to do their best, plus any fifth work types that might pop up, remembering obscure and at times contradictory rules to avoid dying, and then how to fight. An Arbiter and their Claws just have to know how to fight, and probably had more time to work on that skill set.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:13
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Chaosbrain posted:I actually wonder a bit about the “best of humanity” thing. I think that L-corp people apply to the job, they are not scouted. The point I am getting at is that our Agents are at the pinnacle...of average joes. They are not the people with years or even decades of combat experience, they are not the ones trained exclusively how to kill, they are not purposefully breed and upgraded through manners biological and possibly mechanical to be at the true pinnacle of strength.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:30
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Right. Recall that Rabbit team is the semi-restrained and subtle mercenary task force. They have EX level stats and can stand up reasonably to an Aleph level Abnormality with no EGO gear. This is from “just” a basic lower powered security/mercenary team, to say nothing of what the other R-Corp teams can do, and the Heads Arbiters are probably expected to be able to solo those stronger teams easily.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:37
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TeeQueue posted:
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Mar 9, 2021 03:03
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That's about all the information I'll be getting from her. Let's get out of here before we find out what happens if WhiteNight breaches with you in my office.
Oh yeah, that'd be super fun. I get to grow wings!
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Scalding Coffee posted:I wholeheartedly agree. Let us grow more wings. The birds are still asleep, why not! e: now that would be a mashup. hm. Octatonic fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 03:16
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Wasn't Hokma implying all our agents were picked due to sharing some specific quality unrelated to actual employee competence?
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Mar 9, 2021 06:50
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:I was wondering why the manager was monologuing so much in this update, but then I remembered that Extraction doesn't even have a captain. Under appreciated post/user name combo
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Mar 9, 2021 07:02
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