OSHA IV: NO SAFETY - SMOKING FIRST - The Something Awful Forums

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CannonFodder: Jan 26, 2001; Passion’s Wrench

Slugnoid posted:

This reminds me of an old story I heard at work years ago. Two old ladies that lived next door to each other, both roasted in their showers by a current that managed to travel through the lights into the rebar in their shower floors and then through the wet tiles into their bodies.

This article about it is worth a read, it's some final destination poo poo.
https://masterelectricians.com.au/dead-but-still-live

That was also happening to US troops in Iraq, their bathrooms were improperly wired and some troops were electrocuted.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/soldier.electrocutions/

quote:

Army documents obtained by CNN show that U.S.-paid contractor Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) inspected the building and found serious electrical problems a full 11 months before Maseth was electrocuted.

KBR noted "several safety issues concerning the improper grounding of electrical devices." But KBR's contract did not cover "fixing potential hazards." It covered repairing items only after they broke down.

Only after Maseth died did the Army issue an emergency order for KBR to finally fix the electrical problems, and that order was carried out soon thereafter.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:07

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# ? May 31, 2024 22:51

Ornamental Dingbat: Feb 26, 2007

Dumb Sex-Parrot posted:

Wow that's amazing and scary at the same time. I wonder how they keep it safe in the bombs.

e:

Thanks!

They use 239 in bombs. Doesn't get as hot.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:07

Blindeye: Sep 22, 2006; I can't believe I kissed you!

Dumb Sex-Parrot posted:

Wait, holy poo poo, does plutonium normally look like it is glowing red hot?!

TotalLossBrain posted:

lmao little close for comfort maybe.

I believe the term is critical geometry.

The fun thing too is the water in your body can change the reactivity of a configuration by reflection of neutrons. If you violate a mass or geometry configuration, you gotta gtfo and not try to be a hero and approach to correct it.

More on the event:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/near-disaster-federal-nuclear-weapons-laboratory-takes-hidden-toll-america-s-arsenal

Also, another fun fact; the "blue flash" is not Cherenkov radiation in your eye fluid as often mentioned in media. It's actually the air around a critical mass being ionized; it's essentially the Aurora Borealis, at this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country, localized entirely within your laboratory!

As for pyrophoric metals as discussed, the typical means of keeping them from spontaneously burning is coating them (either temporarily with oil or some other easily removed material) or plating it with something else that keeps oxygen out. As others have mentioned the higher the surface area, the more risk, and once it oxidizes the surface the risk is less (but not zero!)

Blindeye fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Mar 9, 2021

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:07

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

Back when I was getting my license, the instructor (an awesome older guy who had been running a driving school with his wife for ages) gave me the best driving advice I have ever gotten:

"With crossing lights, always remember that they were ordered from the cheapest possible manufacturer by a poor and penny-pinching country".

Never trust the lights with your life, always take the time to look.

Applies to so many things, as Ethan Coen points out:

quote:

The loudest have the final say,
The wanton win, the rash hold sway,
The realist's rules of order say
The drunken driver has the right of way.

The Kubla Khan can butt in line;
The biggest brute can take what's mine;
When heavyweights break wind, that's fine;
No matter what a judge might say,
The drunken driver has the right of way.

The guiltiest feel free of guilt;
Who care not, bloom; who worry, wilt;
Plans better laid are rarely built
For forethought seldom wins the day;
The drunken driver has the right of way.

The most attentive and unfailing
Carefulness is unavailing
Wheresoever fools are flailing;
Wisdom there is held at bay;,
The drunken driver has the right of way.

De jure is de facto's slave;
The most foolhardy beat the brave;
Brass routs restraint; low lies high's grave;
When conscience leads you, it's astray;
The drunken driver has the right of way.

It's only the naivest who'll
Deny this, that the reckless rule;
When facing an oncoming fool
The practiced and sagacious say
Watch out � one side � look sharp � gang way.

However much you plan and pray,
Alas, alack, tant pis, oy vey,
Now � heretofore � til Judgment Day,
The drunken driver has the right of way.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:10

Hilario Baldness: Feb 10, 2005; Grimey Drawer

shame on an IGA posted:

This non-glowing plutonium is substantially more dangerous and this photo prompted congressional hearings. Can you spot the problem?

Holy loving poo poo. That could have been a catastrophe.

:yikes:

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:26

Green Intern: Dec 29, 2008; Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

Back when I was getting my license, the instructor (an awesome older guy who had been running a driving school with his wife for ages) gave me the best driving advice I have ever gotten:

"With crossing lights, always remember that they were ordered from the cheapest possible manufacturer by a poor and penny-pinching country".

Never trust the lights with your life, always take the time to look.

When I was learning to drive, my dad always told me to treat every other driver like they're out to kill me. Honestly, pretty good advice.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:27

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

My driving instructor constantly warned me about other drivers by claiming that they were "on the sauce".

"Oh watch out for this guy. He's on the sauce."

He would also routinely detour the instruction route to his house, go inside for five minutes, and then come back to the car.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:36

old bean factory: Nov 18, 2006; Will ya close the fucking doors?!

shame on an IGA posted:

This non-glowing plutonium is substantially more dangerous and this photo prompted congressional hearings. Can you spot the problem?

Fine, I'll be the one: No, what's the issue?

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:36

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

plutonium starts producing a ton of neutron radiation when there is enough of it around plus enough reflectors around it to begin to sustain a chain reaction

If you have enough of those fuckers together, even getting your hand close to it can cause the reaction to go critical

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:40

titty_baby_: Nov 11, 2015

mng posted:

Fine, I'll be the one: No, what's the issue?

Idk the mechanisms behind it, but if those rods were to roll into each other or simply touch each other it would be really bad

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:40

Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

shame on an IGA posted:

This non-glowing plutonium is substantially more dangerous and this photo prompted congressional hearings. Can you spot the problem?

lmao the little anti-roll safety nubs

"yeah that'll do it"

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:45

Evilreaver: Feb 26, 2007; GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!; Dinosaur Gum

My pet theory as to why radiation is culturally shown as green:

Now, most 'natural' radioactive things (uranium ore) are boring colors: black, grey metal, or clear (radon, I guess). So where did we get 'green'? Well, Cerenkov radiation is blue, so that's at least a color. That's made when radioactive decay occurs in a medium such as water (or the viewer's eyeballs, in the case of the Demon Core).

Now, what color is pee? What happens when you pee yellow on a weird warm rock?

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:46

Ornamental Dingbat: Feb 26, 2007

Evilreaver posted:

My pet theory as to why radiation is culturally shown as green:

Now, most 'natural' radioactive things (uranium ore) are boring colors: black, grey metal, or clear (radon, I guess). So where did we get 'green'? Well, Cerenkov radiation is blue, so that's at least a color. That's made when radioactive decay occurs in a medium such as water (or the viewer's eyeballs, in the case of the Demon Core).

Now, what color is pee? What happens when you pee yellow on a weird warm rock?

Ever hear of uranium glass?

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:50

Punkinhead: Apr 2, 2015

Evilreaver posted:

My pet theory as to why radiation is culturally shown as green:

Now, most 'natural' radioactive things (uranium ore) are boring colors: black, grey metal, or clear (radon, I guess). So where did we get 'green'? Well, Cerenkov radiation is blue, so that's at least a color. That's made when radioactive decay occurs in a medium such as water (or the viewer's eyeballs, in the case of the Demon Core).

Now, what color is pee? What happens when you pee yellow on a weird warm rock?

Piss
Core
Is
REAL

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:51

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

mng posted:

Fine, I'll be the one: No, what's the issue?

If the plutonium pellets come close enough to each other they go critical. They are shaped like rods to prevent enough mass to be close enough to each other to cause a runaway chain reaction. If they had a more compact shape such as a sphere they would go critical. The pellets can easily roll and touch touch each other due to bad (even worse) handling and thereby cause a criticality event that will likely kill people.

Edit: I never thought about it before but you could make a plutonium musket ball or possibly rifle round that would cause a criticality event when it hits the target.

Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Mar 9, 2021

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:52

Whooping Crabs: Apr 13, 2010; Sorry for the derail but I fuckin love me some racoons

# ? Mar 9, 2021 22:57

GD_American: Jul 21, 2004; LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

CannonFodder posted:

That was also happening to US troops in Iraq, their bathrooms were improperly wired and some troops were electrocuted.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/soldier.electrocutions/

You only even heard about the ones that died. We had a few get medevaced from Tikrit after getting zapped in the shower. Hell, plenty of us on our base would get a tingle every now and then grabbing a sink.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:00

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

Evilreaver posted:

My pet theory as to why radiation is culturally shown as green:

Now, most 'natural' radioactive things (uranium ore) are boring colors: black, grey metal, or clear (radon, I guess). So where did we get 'green'? Well, Cerenkov radiation is blue, so that's at least a color. That's made when radioactive decay occurs in a medium such as water (or the viewer's eyeballs, in the case of the Demon Core).

Now, what color is pee? What happens when you pee yellow on a weird warm rock?

Phosphorus glows green in the presence of radiation. They used it to make glow-in-the-dark objects. The Radium Girls are a tragic OSHA story, they died in huge numbers because of handling radium paint.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:00

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Evilreaver posted:

My pet theory as to why radiation is culturally shown as green:

Now, most 'natural' radioactive things (uranium ore) are boring colors: black, grey metal, or clear (radon, I guess). So where did we get 'green'? Well, Cerenkov radiation is blue, so that's at least a color. That's made when radioactive decay occurs in a medium such as water (or the viewer's eyeballs, in the case of the Demon Core).

Now, what color is pee? What happens when you pee yellow on a weird warm rock?

Piss criticality is real

E:f,b

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:02

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Zudgemud posted:

If the plutonium pellets come close enough to each other they go critical. They are shaped like rods to prevent enough mass to be close enough to each other to cause a runaway chain reaction. If they had a more compact shape such as a sphere they would go critical. The pellets can easily roll and touch touch each other due to bad (even worse) handling and thereby cause a criticality event that will likely kill people.

Edit: I never thought about it before but you could make a plutonium musket ball or possibly rifle round that would cause a criticality event when it hits the target.

Holy poo poo writing a steampunk novel now

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:04

Dumb Sex-Parrot: Dec 25, 2020; Absurd Pox Term
Rad Buxom Strep

Retard Ox Bumps
Borax Dumpster

Dares Box Trump

Ornamental Dingbat posted:

Ever hear of uranium glass?

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:06

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Zudgemud posted:

Edit: I never thought about it before but you could make a plutonium musket ball or possibly rifle round that would cause a criticality event when it hits the target.

Critical mass for a bare sphere of Pu-239 is about 10 kilograms, or about 10 centimeters in diameter. So you're well into cannonland, anyone you hit with the thing is gonna be dead anyway, and you've just given the people you were shooting at a critical mass of plutonium.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:11

GD_American: Jul 21, 2004; LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Isn't plutonium so unbelievable toxic that the radiative effects don't even have to come into play to (eventually, down the road) kill them?

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:12

Space Kablooey: May 6, 2009

Whooping Crabs posted:

If you, like me, anthromorphize houses in a way that windows are the eyes and the door is a mouth, then this picture will probably feel horrifying to you.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:17

Evilreaver: Feb 26, 2007; GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!; Dinosaur Gum

Ornamental Dingbat posted:

Ever hear of uranium glass?

Mark my words, that glass is full of piss

Dumb Sex-Parrot posted:

QED

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:18

LifeSunDeath: Jan 4, 2007; still gay rights and smoke weed every day

Dumb Sex-Parrot posted:

LOL!

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:18

Maxwells Demon: Jan 15, 2007

GD_American posted:

Isn't plutonium so unbelievable toxic that the radiative effects don't even have to come into play to (eventually, down the road) kill them?

Yes, to the point you probably do not want your infantry to handle plutonium rounds at any stage with any PPE mandates.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:21

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

GD_American posted:

Isn't plutonium so unbelievable toxic that the radiative effects don't even have to come into play to (eventually, down the road) kill them?

I believe the primary concern is that Pu is a good alpha emitter, which means it spews heavy particles at (relatively) low speeds, which wreck the poo poo out of the insides of people when ingested.
Great, so don't eat Plutonium you say. The usual uptake of alpha emitters happens via breathing and accidental ingestion of airborne particles. Bad stuff.

Anyone starting work at the Hanford site is required to undergo a whole-body count, which just determines the base activity of your body before you start working there. You get another one at the end of your employment contract.
The process takes 20-60 minutes, depending on the precise scan performed. The scans are performed in giant copper chambers with ~1.5 ft walls made from pre-1945 copper. It's very quiet in there.

If uptake of alpha emitters is suspected, the first step is to poo poo in a bag and submit it for examination.

TotalLossBrain fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 9, 2021

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:21

Blindeye: Sep 22, 2006; I can't believe I kissed you!

GD_American posted:

Isn't plutonium so unbelievable toxic that the radiative effects don't even have to come into play to (eventually, down the road) kill them?

Eh, it's toxic and radiotoxic, you can theorhetically kill someone with heavy metal poisoning but more likely going to give them radiation over their life that significantly increases the chance of cancers.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:22

CannonFodder: Jan 26, 2001; Passion’s Wrench

GD_American posted:

You only even heard about the ones that died. We had a few get medevaced from Tikrit after getting zapped in the shower. Hell, plenty of us on our base would get a tingle every now and then grabbing a sink.

I'd say that's what you get when something is built by the lowest bidder but those were no bid cost plus contracts so there's no excuse for excessive shoddiness. Just spend more to do it right because there will always be a profit.

hahaha j/k gotta grift fast

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:31

CzarChasm: Mar 14, 2009; I don't like it when you're watching me eat.

Zudgemud posted:

If the plutonium pellets come close enough to each other they go critical. They are shaped like rods to prevent enough mass to be close enough to each other to cause a runaway chain reaction. If they had a more compact shape such as a sphere they would go critical. The pellets can easily roll and touch touch each other due to bad (even worse) handling and thereby cause a criticality event that will likely kill people.

Edit: I never thought about it before but you could make a plutonium musket ball or possibly rifle round that would cause a criticality event when it hits the target.

I don't know much about firearms, but wouldn't the criticality even be reached when the musket ball was set off? I mean, you're already impacting the pellet with explosive force to launch it out of the gun, so wouldn't it explode catastrophically inside the gun?

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:44

Ornamental Dingbat: Feb 26, 2007

CzarChasm posted:

I don't know much about firearms, but wouldn't the criticality even be reached when the musket ball was set off? I mean, you're already impacting the pellet with explosive force to launch it out of the gun, so wouldn't it explode catastrophically inside the gun?

I'd also suspect you would have big problems if your gun isn't made of something like beryllium.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:52

Memento: Aug 25, 2009; Bleak Gremlin

CannonFodder posted:

I'd say that's what you get when something is built by the lowest bidder but those were no bid cost plus contracts so there's no excuse for excessive shoddiness. Just spend more to do it right because there will always be a profit.

hahaha j/k gotta grift fast

Yeah I could spend more to do it right, or, *takes enormous bump of cocaine* I could buy a slightly larger nesting yacht.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:55

Elviscat: Jan 1, 2008; Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

CzarChasm posted:

I don't know much about firearms, but wouldn't the criticality even be reached when the musket ball was set off? I mean, you're already impacting the pellet with explosive force to launch it out of the gun, so wouldn't it explode catastrophically inside the gun?

That's not how (super)critically is achieved.

In the case of nuclear weapons you smush a bunch of fissile material together really fast, and it forms a critical mass with a huge excess of reactivity that very rapidly undergoes fission by fast moving neutrons.

In the case of nuclear reactors (the critical bullets we're talking about) you either take away neutron absorbing material from a critical mass, or in this case introduce a subcritical mass to a neutron moderator (the water in blood) that slows the neutrons down, making them more readily absorbed by the fissile material (cross section for absorption in U235 and Pu239 is higher for lower energy neutrons) and making the mass critical without the addition of more fissile material, this is the same mechanism for criticality that the scientists that got killed by the demon core were experimenting with.

# ? Mar 9, 2021 23:55

FogHelmut: Dec 18, 2003

shame on an IGA posted:

This non-glowing plutonium is substantially more dangerous and this photo prompted congressional hearings. Can you spot the problem?

Lack of a flared base.

# ? Mar 10, 2021 00:08

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

GD_American posted:

Isn't plutonium so unbelievable toxic that the radiative effects don't even have to come into play to (eventually, down the road) kill them?

No. It's a toxic heavy metal, but that's insignificant compared to the radiation hazard of ingesting an alpha emitter.

Elviscat posted:

That's not how (super)critically is achieved.

To expand on this: the development of a chain reaction in a fissile material depends upon geometry. Any fission has a chance to generate neutrons, and those neutrons have a chance to either escape and not cause additional fissions, or to interact with another fissile atom and cause more fissions, which can then release neutrons. So shapes that have a lot of surface area compared to their volume are unfavorable for a chain reaction, because the neutrons that get released have a comparatively high chance to just fly right out of the surface before they hit an atom. Conversely shapes like spheres with low surface area:volume are more likely to be able to sustain a chain reaction, because they maximize the chance of a neutron hitting an additional atom.

The chances of a neutron hitting an additional atom are affected by moderators (which slow the neutrons down, more likely), reflectors (which can bounce them back into the material and give them another chance, more likely), temperature (higher temperature = more space between atoms, less likely). So you can have some lump of plutonium that is subcritical, and then get too close to it with a tungsten brick or a beryllium reflector or a 70 kilogram sack of water, and now it's suddenly supercritical and you die in great pain a few days or weeks later.

Phanatic fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Mar 10, 2021

# ? Mar 10, 2021 00:19