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SirSamVimes posted:Apparently saying "it was an extremely hosed up situation" is actually saying "it's fine"? No see, I have to phrase it in the harshest way possible so my feeling that the ending didn't punish her enough is objectively correct
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Mar 10, 2021 04:36
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Desperado Bones posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyrlYjSPlhk I hope I'm just being reactionary but I get serious false flag Antifa vibes from Flagsmasher and her crew.
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Mar 10, 2021 04:42
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The Notorious ZSB posted:How many kids died from lack of sleep/food locked in their rooms in Westview? (Except we wouldn't hear about it because they would never make reckless child murdering part of an MCU story. Just normal reckless child nightmare torture.)
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Mar 10, 2021 06:37
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Everyone posted:As I understood it, the SSS that Captain America got doesn't slow aging either. The thing that slowed Cap's aging was being stuck in the ice. Originally, yes, but that was retconned decades ago. There was a comparatively recent story where the Serum is neutralised and Steve ages up to his true age, although remaining healthy because it still takes time for cells to degrade.
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Mar 10, 2021 09:06
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Sivart13 posted:I think if the Westview situation led to actual child death, we would probably hear about it on the show People are just really wanting to get their witch-hunting on. It's been a pretty long time since the actual Salem trials and folks want to burn a few witches. So we need to make Wanda's actions as horrible as possible to justify that. Oooh, maybe one of the SWORD clowns didn't revert back and now every 27 years or so he'll be murdering some children in Westview. We should totally blame Wanda for that one.
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Mar 10, 2021 11:48
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Jedit posted:Originally, yes, but that was retconned decades ago. There was a comparatively recent story where the Serum is neutralised and Steve ages up to his true age, although remaining healthy because it still takes time for cells to degrade. Steve is somewhere between 105 and 115 at the end of Endgame and looks pretty drat old so it would seem that his aging isn't radically affected by the serum.
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Mar 10, 2021 12:13
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live with fruit posted:Steve is somewhere between 105 and 115 at the end of Endgame and looks pretty drat old so it would seem that his aging isn't radically affected by the serum. I imagine he's physically about age 95, and that his time in the ice basically doesn't count. He was born in July 1918, then goes in to the ice at some point in winter 1944. So at age 26. He spends about 70 years in the ice, and is pulled out about sometime in 2011/2012. At which point he's probably still basically 26. Then he ages normally until 2025, when he starts time travelling. At which point he'd be about 40, after another 14(ish) years of normal life. The furthest back he jumps is 1970, which is the age he stays at with Peggy, presumably, to go the long way round to get back to 2025. Which is another 55 years. Which would put him around 95.
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Mar 10, 2021 12:32
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tsob posted:I imagine he's physically about age 95, and that his time in the ice basically doesn't count. He was born in July 1918, then goes in to the ice at some point in winter 1944. So at age 26. He spends about 70 years in the ice, and is pulled out about sometime in 2011/2012. At which point he's probably still basically 26. Then he ages normally until 2025, when he starts time travelling. At which point he'd be about 40, after another 14(ish) years of normal life. The furthest back he jumps is 1970, which is the age he stays at with Peggy, presumably, to go the long way round to get back to 2025. Which is another 55 years. Which would put him around 95. The old car and music imply that he went back to the 40s.
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Mar 10, 2021 12:43
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I like that Wanda isn't 100% a good person. She's technically one of the most powerful entities in the Marvel universe and it's fun if the audience isn't 100% sure what she's going to do next. I'd like to see her struggle with the temptations of being able to do just about anything she wants
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Mar 10, 2021 12:49
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live with fruit posted:Steve is somewhere between 105 and 115 at the end of Endgame and looks pretty drat old so it would seem that his aging isn't radically affected by the serum. I was talking comics, not movies. In the MCU it's always been the case that the SSS slows but doesn't halt aging.
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Mar 10, 2021 13:03
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live with fruit posted:The old car and music imply that he went back to the 40s. What old car? The music in the dancing scene is probably from the 1940s, but I mean, they could be listening to that song at any point after the 1940s and it may have been "their" song; which they would want to listen to regardless of the exact date. Peggy doesn't look de-aged in that scene, so I doubt he's gone all the way back to the 1940s and I doubt he even would anyway; given that he himself was still around for much of the 1940s and what was happening in the world at the time even after his original timeline self goes in to the ice. Why jump back to the war or it's direct fallout? It's more likely he'd jump to the 1950s if he was going to meet her again, if only because their ages would be closer that way too. Peggy was born in 1921 in the MCU, so he if jumped to even the mid 40s, just after his chronal prime self would have gone in to the ice and the war was over, she'd still only be in her mid 20s while he's 40(ish). I imagine he's more likely to jump to a point later in her life when they'd be a bit closer in age/experience if he was going to jump from the 1970s to a previous point in time. Which is even assuming that Steve had the Pym Particles for direct control over his chronal trajectory, since Hulk seemed to be controlling that via the base station the same way he had while testing with Scott and Clint.
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Mar 10, 2021 13:24
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tsob posted:What old car? The music in the dancing scene is probably from the 1940s, but I mean, they could be listening to that song at any point after the 1940s and it may have been "their" song; which they would want to listen to regardless of the exact date. Peggy doesn't look de-aged in that scene, so I doubt he's gone all the way back to the 1940s and I doubt he even would anyway; given that he himself was still around for much of the 1940s and what was happening in the world at the time even after his original timeline self goes in to the ice. Why jump back to the war or it's direct fallout? It's more likely he'd jump to the 1950s if he was going to meet her again, if only because their ages would be closer that way too. Peggy was born in 1921 in the MCU, so he if jumped to even the mid 40s, just after his chronal prime self would have gone in to the ice and the war was over, she'd still only be in her mid 20s while he's 40(ish). I imagine he's more likely to jump to a point later in her life when they'd be a bit closer in age/experience if he was going to jump from the 1970s to a previous point in time. Which is even assuming that Steve had the Pym Particles for direct control over his chronal trajectory, since Hulk seemed to be controlling that via the base station the same way he had while testing with Scott and Clint. In the scene, the camera pans up from 40s-style car to the house. If he went to the 70s, she'd already be married.
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Mar 10, 2021 13:28
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live with fruit posted:In the scene, the camera pans up from 40s-style car to the house. If he went to the 70s, she'd already be married. Oh right, I was watching it on YouTube for convenience, where the scene picks up from a few seconds in and cuts out that car driving by. I can see it looking at the film properly on Disney+ though. It looks like a car that could fit in to the early 50s as much as the mid to late 40s to me, but I'm not a car guy by any stretch. It's apparently somewhat academic though, as the script reveals that it takes place in 1949 and that Steve is 112 years old when he returns.
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Mar 10, 2021 13:41
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Thanks to this thread I found out that Captain Midlands exists. I thought that Union Jack was the British Captain America equivalent. Captain Midlands has really done me. Is there a Captain Cornwall? Captain East Anglia?
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Mar 10, 2021 14:40
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Junkenstein posted:Thanks to this thread I found out that Captain Midlands exists. I thought that Union Jack was the British Captain America equivalent. Captain Midlands has really done me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth:_Red,_White_%26_Black
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Mar 10, 2021 14:52
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Junkenstein posted:Thanks to this thread I found out that Captain Midlands exists. I thought that Union Jack was the British Captain America equivalent. Captain Midlands has really done me. In looking to see what other nationally based heroes exist I found out that Wales had a member of the Captain Britain corps, and that even Ireland had a hero with luck based powers called Shamrock (though neither were involved in WWII or the super soldier program) that only really ever appeared in a few comics and retired to be a hairdresser when she noticed her powers had run out because she broke her left foot. She's apparently hairdresser to the stars now, having done Kitty Pryde and Janet Van Dyne's hair. Which is a fun bit of trivia to have learned.
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Mar 10, 2021 14:59
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Everyone posted:Actually Wanda did let them sleep, but they had her nightmares. It was an extremely hosed up situation but it wasn't quite as grim/awful as you're painting it. Perhaps I misheard that line from the townsfolk. i got the distinct impression the folks, especially on the outer edge of town, were functionally frozen if you aren't in the scene. Stuck doing nothing but feeling her grief and experiencing her nightmares as a way for her to offload that trauma. It wasn't explicit to me that they needed to be asleep to be experiencing her nightmares, that it was more a function of her control spell. None of these folks really seem to know what they've been up to, just that they aren't in control and I had assumed their actual consciousness was stuck living her nightmares while she's in control. Just very much got the impression the town wasn't actually sleeping given that folks are literally stuck in their chosen positions at night time like saw in the halloween ep with Vision. I am probably wrong in my interpretation making it way more complicated than your answer which is a lot cleaner an explanation. Sivart13 posted:I think if the Westview situation led to actual child death, we would probably hear about it on the show Oh yeah no they'd never actually be that dark, but we also didn't really see the fallout for the town once she leaves so it is an open door as others have mentioned to add detail as motivation for other characters later if they want. I was just kinda playing out a possible consequence of what was implied she'd done with making folks NPCs, who aren't ya know actually just computer generated players. If she'd "made" fake towns folk this is not concerning, but she coopted an entire town and then an entire secret SWORD squad when she expanded the hex. We've def seen before that there are often consequences beyond what we've been shown immediately in an MCU entry.
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Mar 10, 2021 16:36
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Everyone posted:People are just really wanting to get their witch-hunting on. It's been a pretty long time since the actual Salem trials and folks want to burn a few witches. So we need to make Wanda's actions as horrible as possible to justify that. Oooh, maybe one of the SWORD clowns didn't revert back and now every 27 years or so he'll be murdering some children in Westview. We should totally blame Wanda for that one. Why do people keep posting dumb poo poo like this? I swear half the posts in this thread are people creating strawmen and/or completely fabricated motives to be mad at. It's okay to feel like a literal villain didn't face enough repercussions and kind of want there to be more. This isn't some crusade against female villains or whatever the gently caress people seem hell bent on making a thing.
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Mar 10, 2021 16:55
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Desperado Bones posted:But what about mages? And magicians? And Gandalf????! Mage is a catch-all term for anyone with mystical power. Magicians are people who do fake magic on stage. Gandalf is actually a bard dressed up as a wizard.
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Mar 10, 2021 17:03
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Gandalf is an angel like Starbuck in BSG
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Mar 10, 2021 17:10
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and Merlin is the magical equivalent of Holmes on Homes on the HGTV channel. (seriously, that guy has some of the most bizarre housing of anybody).
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Mar 10, 2021 17:11
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I thought somebody confirmed that Steve didn't take the long way back to 2024. He lived a full life with Peggy then returned via the time travel mechanism, and just showed up on the bench for the theatricality I guess. That makes his age indeterminate in that scene. He could be 80.
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Mar 10, 2021 17:32
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Ravel posted:I thought somebody confirmed that Steve didn't take the long way back to 2024. He lived a full life with Peggy then returned via the time travel mechanism, and just showed up on the bench for the theatricality I guess. This is probably what you are thinking of. https://screenrant.com/avengers-endgame-captain-america-joe-russo-timeline-confirmation/
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Mar 10, 2021 17:40
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Ravel posted:I thought somebody confirmed that Steve didn't take the long way back to 2024. He lived a full life with Peggy then returned via the time travel mechanism, and just showed up on the bench for the theatricality I guess. Nobody really knows for sure. The writers say he went the long way back and was always Peggy's husband, silently shaking his head as she goes off to do HYDRA's bidding. The directors say he went and created a new Peggy/Steve timeline that he lived in for a while before hopping back, and all the talk of "trimming branches" was for nothing. Maybe Old Steve will clarify on FATWS? ("No I don't think I will")
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Mar 10, 2021 17:42
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Hobo Clown posted:Nobody really knows for sure. The writers say he went the long way back and was always Peggy's husband, silently shaking his head as she goes off to do HYDRA's bidding. The directors say he went and created a new Peggy/Steve timeline that he lived in for a while before hopping back, and all the talk of "trimming branches" was for nothing. Great. Now every time I see FATWS my brain automatically goes to Fat Winter Soldier which makes me think of a vet I know. Thanks goons.
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Mar 10, 2021 18:03
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Ravel posted:I thought somebody confirmed that Steve didn't take the long way back to 2024. He lived a full life with Peggy then returned via the time travel mechanism, and just showed up on the bench for the theatricality I guess. Assuming Steve didn't shorten Peggy's life, he was in her timeline till at least 2016.
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Mar 10, 2021 18:23
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the part where Wanda traps Agatha as a character is really hosed up. she could have so easily just put her in regular jail with witch runes on the walls
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Mar 10, 2021 18:43
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Wanda is not a police officer If you come at the Queen you best not miss. Agatha hosed with her and her kids and got let off easy tbh. If I was a god-witch I would probably have kamehameha'd her or something
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Mar 10, 2021 18:47
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Collapsing Farts posted:Wanda is not a police officer yeah but there was the whole thing about her figuring out how wrong it was to do that, then she just went and did it again. right in front of Vision too and he didn't seem to care which was odd
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Mar 10, 2021 18:53
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Goons are fuckin weird, so Agatha manipulates the whole situation to make it much worse to some end, yet it was WRONG of Wanda to punish her.
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Mar 10, 2021 18:55
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Cage Kicker posted:Goons are fuckin weird, so Agatha manipulates the whole situation to make it much worse to some end, yet it was WRONG of Wanda to punish her. lol no it wasn't wrong to punish her, the punishment was just cruel and unusual. I really doubt this is a criticism that's only coming up on SA either
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Mar 10, 2021 18:59
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Agatha was on the show and interacted with Monica so presumably the authorities won't just leave her there, to say nothing of all the townsfolk with heavy PTSD who know that Agatha isn't one of them.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:00
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Forgive me if this has been talked about already. But if Sword rebuilt iVision, and all they needed to get him working was some Hex magic from Wanda, does that mean that Sword and Wanda could have resurrected Vision at any time if they worked together? And could do so again any time moving forward? So Vision is immortal as long as Wanda is alive? And if Hayward had just, you know, not been a dick, the whole show wouldn't have happened?
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Mar 10, 2021 19:05
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Possibly, but the only reason iVision got his mind back was because Wandavision stuffed memories in his brain
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Mar 10, 2021 19:09
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Everyone posted:People are just really wanting to get their witch-hunting on. It's been a pretty long time since the actual Salem trials and folks want to burn a few witches. So we need to make Wanda's actions as horrible as possible to justify that.  , there might instead be a middle ground between Wanda being a sympathetic character who deserves understanding, and the fact that Wanda's treatment of her victims was also objectively horrible and inexcusable.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:10
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Collapsing Farts posted:Possibly, but the only reason iVision got his mind back was because Wandavision stuffed memories in his brain I thought Hex Vision just brought the wall down that was blocking his memories. I may be remembering wrong, though. Presumably, Hayward and Sword could have not put that block up, as a condition of getting Wanda's help. But maybe Hayward wouldn't have agreed to that, because then iVision wouldn't agree to be their weapon.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:13
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Collapsing Farts posted:Possibly, but the only reason iVision got his mind back was because Wandavision stuffed memories in his brain The memories were already there, just locked away. WandaVision did the same mind unlocking ability he used on Norm and Darcy.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:14
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I agree that how Wanda ultimately dealt with Agnes was really lovely and could be seen as villainous, but it's not exactly unheard of in the MCU. Dr. Strange's solution for the dudes in his movie is markedly worse.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:20
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Collapsing Farts posted:Wanda is not a police officer I know eye for an eye retributive justice isn't great, but what Wanda did to Agatha was exactly what Agatha was going to do to Wanda, only without condemning the rest of Westview to the same fate.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:30
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thrawn527 posted:Forgive me if this has been talked about already. But if Sword rebuilt iVision, and all they needed to get him working was some Hex magic from Wanda, does that mean that Sword and Wanda could have resurrected Vision at any time if they worked together? And could do so again any time moving forward? So Vision is immortal as long as Wanda is alive? I don't think Wanda would have been okay with the uses that Hayward (or the US government in general) would want to put Vision to, so that plan was basically a nonstarter from the get-go. And while we haven't seen the ultimate fate of iVision after he flew away, I suspect that even with his memories restored he's still not 100% the original Vision, and may not be something that Wanda would have any interest in dealing with..
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Mar 10, 2021 19:30
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