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BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

DanteDevils posted:

I hope I’m wrong, but people seem to prioritize Netflix and free porn more than their own neighbors. :smith: Twitter, Facebook, and Google will simply adjust their algorithms accordingly in order to keep the population perfectly distracted and fragmented amongst themselves with fake news and sensationalism. Liberals are indoctrinating their adherents into believing dissent against capitalism is somehow tantamount to bigotry, racism, and even treason; meanwhile, their conservative cousins are going all in on Christian theocracy, conspiracy theories, and racism to preserve capitalism.
i think believing that capitalism is the end state of human history requires more "faith" than believing in communism with a religious zeal. also, it's a big world. something like 80% of the industrial and manufacturing workers in the world don't live in the developed western countries, and leninists i don't think have the option of transferring the motive force of history from the revolutionary struggle of the workers to our conservative cousins in kansas city. that said, i feel that the difference between people who really "get it" and never escape from Real Leftism and those who don't and mosey back to being liberals is whether they think about politics as about being on a heroic quest like hitler and his worms or hippies who later voted for reagan

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Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

apropos to nothing posted:

lol you can literally go check a list of central committee members of the bolsheviks in 1917 and half were killed in different rounds of the purges. some of em on trumped up charges like trying to kill lenin 15 years earlier and assassinating kirov. its not great man theory to say that they were unjustly murdered by opportunists and not only them but many more of the rank and file bolsheviks and socialists were too. theres accounts of hundreds of people singing the internationale while being killed by the firing squads. stalin and the clique around him were no better than the directory.

apropos to nothing posted:

i reject great man theory, meaning that it is good that these socialists were killed

what IS great man theory is reading about the purges and then saying that "stalin killed the old bolsheviks", rather than immediately retreating as you have and admitting that maybe, just maybe, the cause of the purges is something you need plural nouns to describe. the great purges weren't the evil plan of one man hungry for power, they were an emergent consequence of the CPSU growing quickly under conditions of capitalist encirclement. a bunch of old bolsheviks DID become furious 15 years earlier at the treaty of brest-litovsk and start thinking about whether they had to intervene to save socialism, a bunch of old bolsheviks had dramatically different to the point of incompatible plans for the USSR's development and also weren't willing to fall in with the party line, and a bunch of party members were in fact deliberate saboteurs

i disagree with several other powers - this stuff actually is important to discuss rather than wave off, because the kind of idealism even self-proclaimed marxists lapse into when talking about the progress of actual revolutions reveals both a willingness to swallow western anticommunist narratives and an unwillingness to take the flexible, step-by-step strategy involved in organizing seriously rather than simply attempt to stubbornly prefigure your end goal

Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Mar 11, 2021

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


btw I am re-reading 18th Brumaire (in English, I read at first in Portuguese 10 years ago) and holy poo poo Karl Marx going full CSPAM here (never read this edition so its new to me)

Preface to the 2nd Edition posted:

Of the writings dealing with the same subject at approximately the same time as mine, only two deserve notice: Victor Hugo’s Napoleon le Petit and Proudhon’s Coup d’Etat. Victor Hugo confines himself to bitter and witty invective against the responsible producer of the coup d’etat. The event itself appears in his work like a bolt from the blue. He sees in it only the violent act of a single individual. He does not notice that he makes this individual great instead of little by ascribing to him a personal power of initiative unparalleled in world history. Proudhon, for his part, seeks to represent the coup d’etat as the result of an antecedent historical development. Inadvertently, however, his historical construction of the coup d’etat becomes a historical apologia for its hero. Thus he falls into the error of our so-called objective historians. I, on the contrary, demonstrate how the class struggle in France created circumstances and relationships that made it possible for a grotesque mediocrity to play a hero’s part.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
i, on the contrary,

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
calling yourself a communist in front of normies is one of the few pleasures of being a leftist

that and the weird problematic sex

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


thotsky posted:

that and the weird problematic sex

uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

dead gay comedy forums posted:

btw I am re-reading 18th Brumaire (in English, I read at first in Portuguese 10 years ago) and holy poo poo Karl Marx going full CSPAM here (never read this edition so its new to me)

lmfao

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
lol it’s fitting that the dude who thinks stalin is great and Grover furr is a legit historian also is not a communist

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

dead gay comedy forums posted:

uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what

cspam guy thinking harder than he's ever thought about anything before in his life: the pleasures of leftism is like... like... weird problematic sex

a Loving Dog
May 12, 2001

more like a Barking Dog, woof!
How many y'all like weird problematic sex? [crowd goes wild]

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003

thotsky posted:

calling yourself a communist in front of normies is one of the few pleasures of being a leftist

that and the weird problematic sex

you applying for a position as a mod?

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

I think thotsky has had enough bad posts go viral to warrant becoming a mod. They aren't a state department agent so I guess modding D&D is off the table.

AnimeIsTrash fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Mar 11, 2021

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
personally i like leftists who win

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
masturbation still counts as sex right?

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
is there any evidence that gulags/re-education camps are actually effective at rehabilitating people? something I was wondering about as I ponder the third of America that is extremely brainwashed and probably unreachable

gradenko_2000 posted:

If you think capitalism can resolve its contradictions and isn't fated to fall are you even a goddamn Marxist

I don’t think anyone’s arguing it can resolve its contradictions. but I do understand being worried about its entrenched strength and thus potential ability to withstand them indefinitely (or at least until civilization collapses within the next century)

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Finicums Wake posted:

cspam guy thinking harder than he's ever thought about anything before in his life: the pleasures of leftism is like... like... weird problematic sex
i, on the contrary,

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


thotsky posted:

masturbation still counts as sex right?

comrade, I think that makes it "weird problematic masturbation", which I am not sure it helps especially because I am blanking out the connection with leftism

(it's a dress-up thing isn't it, "ushanka-and-boots"? it's ok who am I to judge everyone with their kinks do it responsibly and safely etc)

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

i, on the contrary,

LMAO :five:

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

dead gay comedy forums posted:

btw I am re-reading 18th Brumaire (in English, I read at first in Portuguese 10 years ago) and holy poo poo Karl Marx going full CSPAM here (never read this edition so its new to me)

yeah im finally getting around to it and it's great. like he's got the german tendency to rambling, but individual segments are loving fantastic

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
Germans honestly suck poo poo

THS
Sep 15, 2017

mila kunis posted:

personally i like leftists who win

that is the point after all

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Why are trotskyists smeared as perverts again? I heard it was because of some old British dudes, but at that point you'd think having to bring their politics into it would be unnecessary.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Mar 11, 2021

Brain Candy
May 18, 2006

thotsky posted:

Why are trotskyists smeared as perverts again? I heard it was because of some old British dudes, but you'd think having to bring their politics into it is unnecessary.

at least itt it's because of you op

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
i like leftists who weren’t captured :smugdon:

Pomeroy
Apr 20, 2020

thotsky posted:

Why are trotskyists smeared as perverts again? I heard it was because of some old British dudes, but you'd think having to bring their politics into it is unnecessary.

I think you can safely attribute that to the "Spartacist League" and its various descendants. While they're not the most numerous type of "Trotskyist" they are both exceptionally memorable, and readily distinguishable from your typical romantic left liberals who want to make a claim on October.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

We aren't going to war with China, right?

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


gradenko_2000 posted:

We aren't going to war with China, right?

it is not in the best interests of the American elite for that to happen, but the appearances of animosity with China are good to appease the belligerent drive and having something to blame outward

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Sure, sooner or later. Probably mostly proxy stuff, which is not great for the rest of the world.

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


oh yeah, I meant directly

proxy poo poo is obviously happening if not already

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

indigi posted:

is there any evidence that gulags/re-education camps are actually effective at rehabilitating people? something I was wondering about as I ponder the third of America that is extremely brainwashed and probably unreachable
well, if a third of america is extremely brainwashed (i think the number is a lot higher actually) then that seems to be evidence that brainwashing... erm, :airquote: "re-education" :airquote: ... is highly effective

THS
Sep 15, 2017

dead gay comedy forums posted:

it is not in the best interests of the American elite for that to happen, but the appearances of animosity with China are good to appease the belligerent drive and having something to blame outward

it’s not in their “best interests” but every year this seems to escalate and get worse, and it can take on its own irrational inevitable confrontation over time. world history is replete with examples, and there is nothing about “modern times” to suggest that we have moved beyond these types of great power conflicts.

perhaps nuclear war makes it more likely to stay in the confines of proxy war, but that, as we know from vietnam and korea, can be devastating - and depending on unexpected circumstances, bad luck, this can escalate. elites in history are capable of Crazy stuff, and if anything our elites thinking they are guided by rational technocratic bullshit might make them more dangerous than you think

making light of war with china (not saying you are, but some do) seems like a combination of historical ignorance and hubris, believing yourself to live in a special time outside of the material forces of history

that’s why i think it is one of the most important tasks of the left to propagandize and fight against it - because i think it is a very real and serious risk

THS fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Mar 11, 2021

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003

thotsky posted:

Why are trotskyists smeared as perverts again? I heard it was because of some old British dudes, but at that point you'd think having to bring their politics into it would be unnecessary.

https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/artSubCategory/Roman_Polanski

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

Pretty sure we can safely gulag all the morons who are frying the world with bitcoin with little consequences.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
to be clear I was referring to this prophetic post:

Flavius Aetass posted:

we aren't going to war with China

cuz, well...

US to build anti-China missile network along first island chain

quote:

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. will bolster its conventional deterrence against China, establishing a network of precision-strike missiles along the so-called first island chain as part of $27.4 billion in spending to be considered for the Indo-Pacific theater over the next six years, Nikkei has learned.

They form the core proposals of the Pacific Deterrence Initiative that the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command has submitted to Congress and Nikkei has reviewed.

"The greatest danger to the future of the United States continues to be an erosion of conventional deterrence," the document said. "Without a valid and convincing conventional deterrent, China is emboldened to take action in the region and globally to supplant U.S. interests. As the Indo-Pacific's military balance becomes more unfavorable, the U.S. accumulates additional risk that may embolden adversaries to unilaterally attempt to change the status quo."

Specifically, it called for "the fielding of an Integrated Joint Force with precision-strike networks west of the International Date Line along the first island chain, integrated air missile defense in the second island chain, and a distributed force posture that provides the ability to preserve stability, and if needed, dispense and sustain combat operations for extended periods."

The first island chain consists of a group of islands including Taiwan, Okinawa and the Philippines, which China sees as the first line of defense. Beijing's "anti-access/area denial" strategy seeks to push American forces out of the East and South China seas within the first island chain.

China also seeks to keep U.S. forces from approaching the "second island chain" in the Western Pacific, which runs from southeastern Japan out to Guam and south to Indonesia.

The Indo-Pacific Command submitted an investment plan for fiscal 2022 through fiscal 2027 to Congress this month.

For fiscal 2022, it has requested $4.7 billion, which is more than double the $2.2 billion earmarked for the region in fiscal 2021, and is close to the roughly $5 billion Washington has spent annually on dealing with Russia.

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world
we aren't going. to war with china!

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

gradenko_2000 posted:

We aren't going to war with China, right?

Endless Frontier Act is way too on the nose lmao

Prince Myshkin
Jun 17, 2018
Trying to picture what kind of thought process leads to someone believing a comparison to Robespierre is somehow unflattering.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Prince Myshkin posted:

Trying to picture what kind of thought process leads to someone believing a comparison to Robespierre is somehow unflattering.

He should have stuck with the cult of reason instead of the cult of the supreme being

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
he was no Babeuf

Prince Myshkin
Jun 17, 2018
Trotskyism-Bonapartism

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Victory Position
Mar 16, 2004

dead gay comedy forums posted:

it is not in the best interests of the American elite for that to happen, but the appearances of animosity with China are good to appease the belligerent drive and having something to blame outward

what's better than another cold war?

more garbage for garbage people to bloviate over, for one

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