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serious gaylord posted:There are currently 5 IOPC investigations going on into the Sarah Everard case. Is there any good reading someone who really struggles daily to be a good feminist due to inherent toxic masculinity (me) can go to read what should be done to increase the safety of women in the UK? kingturnip posted:I can't decide if it's reassuring to see Jess Phillips making the most of an opportunity for self-promotion, or horrific. Listening to the BBC, it was interesting that more women are murdered by people they know, as if that was important, vs almost double of murder victims being male. What am I missing that makes women who are murdered more important than double the amount of men last year? The only thing I can think of is the idea that men are dying because they are implicit in the violence that occurs where as women only ever have violence imposed upon them.
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Mar 12, 2021 06:04
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I'm working from memory but I think the murder rate is something like 95% committed by men, which is a significant bit of context to the other statistics. (e: 92%) I also admit I kind of laughed when you can see harold shipman on the murder chart because they enter them based on date of offense being recorded so he adds a huge spike to the graph when they convicted him.
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Mar 12, 2021 06:25
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willie_dee posted:Is there any good reading someone who really struggles daily to be a good feminist due to inherent toxic masculinity (me) can go to read what should be done to increase the safety of women in the UK? I realise that you said "safety" rather than "perceived safety" though, so you could maybe try killing all pigs? Also try not to do any sex crimes.
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Mar 12, 2021 07:41
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OwlFancier posted:I'm working from memory but I think the murder rate is something like 95% committed by men, which is a significant bit of context to the other statistics. (e: 92%) That makes sense, especially when you add in the relationship element. I know there’s Claire’s Law abs Sarah’s law people can do to find out if someone’s been convicted of a crime, where you can find out if you are at risk. I’m wondering could this be expanded? If domestic abuse can be seen as unforgivable as drink driving standards wise (bar by people who do drink drive) then maybe once you’ve been convicted of beating up a woman you have that stigma in society forever.
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Mar 12, 2021 07:49
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Becoming a better ally is an ongoing process that starts with your willingness to listen to - fully listen to and try to understand - the voices of those you want to be an ally to. You're not going to read a single article, go "that makes sense" and immediately shed an entire upbringing's worth of ingrained sexism, racism, homophobia or transphobia. By reading what women write, thinking about what you read and relating it to your own attitudes and behaviours, both past and present, you will experience some uncomfortable realisations and start to internalise why those attitudes and behaviours are... Not great. Which leads to breaking out of the patterns, gradually. Like all brain changes it's a stressful process which is why you get a lot of people choosing the easier route of just rejecting the idea that those behaviours are even a problem, or that they have ever exhibited those behaviours (hashtag not all men).
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Mar 12, 2021 08:48
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Get a dog. The only times I am outside at night it's when I'm walking my Nina dog. Whenever I do encounter people at night, I have to give them space (because that's what you do when walking a dog, to prevent them from trying to jump up.) And people seem more at ease because you have an obvious reason for being out there, and not just cruising. 
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Mar 12, 2021 09:22
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willie_dee posted:Listening to the BBC, it was interesting that more women are murdered by people they know, as if that was important, vs almost double of murder victims being male. What am I missing that makes women who are murdered more important than double the amount of men last year? The only thing I can think of is the idea that men are dying because they are implicit in the violence that occurs where as women only ever have violence imposed upon them. It is personally a bit frustrating to see the "but what about men"? question pop up. I know it's not what you mean, you're more asking, if we care about murder then why are we discussing it in relation to one group but not another? But all of this discussion is happening in response to a particular set of events and it's ok for the country to dwell on related issues for a bit. It's also that there's a common factor in lots of killings of women (sex & relationships) so maybe there is a related set of steps that could be taken to significantly reduce homicidal violence against women. Whereas for homicides against men, there may be many different underlying factors - partner violence, yes, but also crime/gangs, general personal aggressiveness, financial disputes, and so on - that require different conversations and solutions. I would like to think that something might change but I feel like these conversations have been had over and over for decades and gender- and sex- based violence still looms large. I have spoken to men this week who were not only surprised at the 97% of women have been sexually harassed statistic, but surprised that none of the women they spoke to were surprised. Obviously getting street harassed is nothing like physical assault but it potentially comes from the same well of sexism - and makes you feel targeted simply for being a woman. I usually conduct my life with little concern about these things - for many reasons I feel my probability of experiencing sexual or other violence is low, and I feel totally comfortable taking my quiet walks at night and listening to a book. So much so that it took me a moment to twig why another woman ran away from me recently (I'm tiny, but I was in dark clothes and crossed to her side of the street). Reflecting on it this week, I realised an unfit man of average height could overpower me easily despite me being fairly strong for my size. As could an average sized woman I guess, but somehow my probabilistic thinking doesn't make me worry as much about that.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:32
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The Question IRL posted:Get a dog. I appreciate you being mindful of giving people space, but I'm also wary of men walking dogs alone at night. This is no reflection of you, I don't know you, it's a reflection of how scary it is to be alone outdoors, as a woman, at night. I was told to put my door key in my fist to use as a weapon, just in case, when I walked home from an after junior school club in winter when it was getting darker outside. Every female-presenting person I know has had a similar 'talk' and every female presenting person I know has experienced some form of sexual assault. Apologies if this is not the time or the place for this post.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:39
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I don't really mind being aware of the fact that I resemble a large murderous gorilla. Frankly if people didn't avoid me I would think there was something wrong with them. I would avoid me if I saw me.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:40
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Man looking like he has a fake 'Marcel Wave' rubber chin here.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:45
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Whenever I see someone walking a dog after 10pm I assume they're a serial killer using the dog as an excuse to cruise.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:47
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Have any of you with no health issues been told about your covid jab yet?
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Mar 12, 2021 09:47
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TreeTrunks posted:Apologies if this is not the time or the place for this post. I think it's always the time and place for that. I cross the street whenever possible in circumstances where being a Large Man could freak someone out, and I try to remember as much as possible to offer to walk people home or check in on them or whatever. I've also inserted myself to defuse some obvious public displays of DV over the years, but tbh there's also probably been many times where I just had a bad feeling and didn't say or do anything. And the times I've gotten involved I may not have always handled it great or even ended up making it worse in the long run, I don't really know  stev posted:Whenever I see someone walking a dog after 10pm I assume they're a serial killer using the dog as an excuse to cruise. If they have a cat on a lead just run
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Mar 12, 2021 09:52
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TreeTrunks posted:This is no reflection of you, I don't know you, it's a reflection of how scary it is to be alone outdoors, as a woman, at night. I was told to put my door key in my fist to use as a weapon, just in case, when I walked home from an after junior school club in winter when it was getting darker outside. My partner was literally today talking about how she and every other woman she knows was taught to do this, you're entirely right
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Mar 12, 2021 09:55
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Jippa posted:Have any of you with no health issues been told about your covid jab yet? I'm in Wales. I have no health issues and I'm 60. I got a letter a few days ago giving me an appointment for Monday. Another friend similar - she's a year older than me and having her first one on Sunday. My sister (59) and my niece (28) had their first jabs about a month ago - they both have health issues. I was talking to one of the other people who lives in my block, she's in her mid 80s and all the other 80+ people in the block had had theirs but she heard nothing. Then someone said it might be because she hadn't been to her GP for 10 years so they might not know about her. So she called the doc and sure enough, they had removed her from their lists as she hadn't been for 10 years and she got an appointment fairly soon afterwards. Harassment chat: A male friend with very long hair down to his bum bought something quite large and it was hanging in a bag over his shoulder (Saturday afternoon in a busy London street!). From behind, he looked as if he were female. He said to me next time I saw him that it was the first time he had any clue what it might be like to be a woman because he was cat-called, overheard comments and so on coming from behind him from guys who obviously thought he was a woman. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 09:58
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jacksbrat posted:It is personally a bit frustrating to see the "but what about men"? question pop up. I know it's not what you mean, you're more asking, if we care about murder then why are we discussing it in relation to one group but not another? But all of this discussion is happening in response to a particular set of events and it's ok for the country to dwell on related issues for a bit. It's also that there's a common factor in lots of killings of women (sex & relationships) so maybe there is a related set of steps that could be taken to significantly reduce homicidal violence against women. Whereas for homicides against men, there may be many different underlying factors - partner violence, yes, but also crime/gangs, general personal aggressiveness, financial disputes, and so on - that require different conversations and solutions. Are you sure about that? Sometimes I think men don't realise just how much stronger they are than women. Mind you I think the reverse is true as well, I've helped women in my family carry things and they've said "be careful it's very heavy" so I've braced myself to lift something heavy and nearly ended up throwing it into the air.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:07
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There's always clerical errors too - a friend with health issues (& frequent appointments, so definitely still on the books!) hadn't heard anything so called her GP, and there had been some mistake along the way. She's getting it today  If you think your age group/risk category should have had it by now and they're on to the next one, you should probably check. I think different areas/GPs are going at different speeds. I'm some months away but almost certainly going to get mine before my mum and maybe my health-issues-having dad because I was smrt enough to emigrate to GRATE BRITANE. bessantj posted:Are you sure about that? Sometimes I think men don't realise just how much stronger they are than women. Mind you I think the reverse is true as well, I've helped women in my family carry things and they've said "be careful it's very heavy" so I've braced myself to lift something heavy and nearly ended up throwing it into the air. I am very smol which is why I think other women could beat me up. But that's why I specified that even an unfit man would be strong enough to completely neutralise me. It's quite sad to lift heavy things in the home gym all the time and know it's not really going to save you. jacksbrat fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 10:08
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bessantj posted:Are you sure about that? Sometimes I think men don't realise just how much stronger they are than women. Mind you I think the reverse is true as well, I've helped women in my family carry things and they've said "be careful it's very heavy" so I've braced myself to lift something heavy and nearly ended up throwing it into the air. This is true too. I was just saying this the other day when myself and another woman were struggling to lift a cupboard into a car. Despite my size, I'm not that strong (actually one of my PE teachers wrote on my school report once 'she has outgrown her strength'.) I say to my brother if he's helping me with anything "Be careful it's really heavy" and he hoists it on his shoulder as if it were a bag of feathers.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:12
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My partner is a hard-as-nails sarf london lass & I'm fairly sure she could beat up quite a lot of men. Her take is still "please cross the road" as she would prefer not to have to think about it. e: off-topic the barbers are opening up in Wales on Monday & most people haven't noticed yet, I just managed to get an appointment for Monday afternoon & omg I am so happy (I already needed one & had an appointment right before the last lockdown was announced in December), just a heads-up for any Wales goons (Cymrwns?) who might want to beat the rush 
Borrovan fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 10:14
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:'she has outgrown her strength Lol that's a classic report card burn, I could see why you would remember that a half century later
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Mar 12, 2021 10:15
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the BBC continues its slow decline towards the unenviable status of state broadcaster: https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1370256264509464577?s=19
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Mar 12, 2021 10:19
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Failed Imagineer posted:Lol that's a classic report card burn, I could see why you would remember that a half century later That's nothing. One of my brothers who was always getting into trouble for fighting got "he behaves like a vengeful tomcat on heat" back in the days when you could write things like that on kids' reports!
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Mar 12, 2021 10:20
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:That's nothing. One of my brothers who was always getting into trouble for fighting got "he behaves like a vengeful tomcat on heat" back in the days when you could write things like that on kids' reports! Lol, "too horny and angry for school!"
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Mar 12, 2021 10:23
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Venomous posted:the BBC continues its slow decline towards the unenviable status of state broadcaster: https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1370256264509464577?s=19 luv 2 live on rainy fash island, where even milquetoast left of centre comedy is just too spicy for our lovely authoritarian palates
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Mar 12, 2021 10:23
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Has a year of lockdowns resulted in an increase or decrease in murders? I guess it would be interesting to consider that against the old stats about how most women who are killed are victims of people they know. Like theres not much point in calling for a male 6pm curfew if you're just increasing the chances of people getting murdered. I assume to be honest lockdown hasn't increased the murder rate but probably has the incidence of domestic violence against women. I agree theres a big difference between safety and perceived safety and its probably valuable to separate the two quite distinctly when forming strategies to combat them. The actions men might be asked to take to alter their behaviour would be very different in each instance. The curfew idea would not be to save womens lives (directly) but to increase their perceived safety. Actions which might reduce their likelihood of being murdered are obviously education, but more acutely could be things like altering consumption of media, from generally sexist things to outright pornography. Access to mental health care would surely be important.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:27
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jacksbrat posted:I am very smol which is why I think other women could beat me up. But that's why I specified that even an unfit man would be strong enough to completely neutralise me. It's quite sad to lift heavy things in the home gym all the time and know it's not really going to save you. Unless you're ant sized you're probably stronger than you think you are. Jaeluni Asjil posted:This is true too. I was just saying this the other day when myself and another woman were struggling to lift a cupboard into a car. It's good to know in the gynocracy of the future men will still have one use. Venomous posted:the BBC continues its slow decline towards the unenviable status of state broadcaster: https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1370256264509464577?s=19 Why the 'free speech' right will be up in arms about this surely! bessantj fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 10:32
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bessantj posted:Unless you're ant sized you're probably stronger than you think you are. Ants: famously not strong for their size (E: please ignore, I'm just being annoying with my morning coffee)
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Mar 12, 2021 10:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:Ants: famously not strong for their size It's all false, steroid use among the ant community is rife and just not talked about.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:37
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Failed Imagineer posted:Lol, "too horny and angry for school!" hell, same
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Mar 12, 2021 10:39
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bessantj posted:It's all false, steroid use among the ant community is rife and just not talked about. Don't even get me started on bees and that "royal jelly" poo poo
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Mar 12, 2021 10:42
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Has a year of lockdowns resulted in an increase or decrease in murders? I guess it would be interesting to consider that against the old stats about how most women who are killed are victims of people they know. Like theres not much point in calling for a male 6pm curfew if you're just increasing the chances of people getting murdered. I assume to be honest lockdown hasn't increased the murder rate but probably has the incidence of domestic violence against women. Whatever it is, the students are full of horror stories & even if it's only a "perceived" increase I really hope people start to notice the ordinary scale of harassment &c & take it seriously.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:43
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Has a year of lockdowns resulted in an increase or decrease in murders? I guess it would be interesting to consider that against the old stats about how most women who are killed are victims of people they know. Like theres not much point in calling for a male 6pm curfew if you're just increasing the chances of people getting murdered. I assume to be honest lockdown hasn't increased the murder rate but probably has the incidence of domestic violence against women.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:46
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speaking of domestic abuse when do I call someone about my neighbours there's been some shouting on and off since I moved in, which mostly seemed to be "stuck in a small flat with several children for weeks" sort of stuff which isn't ideal but I wasn't sure what to do about it really and it wasn't constant in the last few days it suddenly got a lot worse and nastier sounding, and basically sounded like they were both telling each other to get out, the guy ended up leaving for a day or two, came back to get something (or just cause an argument idk) but now seems to have come back properly as there was more shouting at 7am this morning it doesn't really sound violent but it's all a bit concerning and it can't be a great place for those kids to be. do I call social services? how angry does an argument have to sound before you call the police idk. no one really tells you these things not massively worried about them figuring out it was me, there's six flats on their stairwell and you can hear the shouting from outside the building
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Mar 12, 2021 10:50
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I'm in a group chat for trying to plan a stag do and even as "wheeey lads" as they all are, the thing with Sarah has kicked off a few discussions about how we as men can help, and it took me by surprise. I just don't think I often see that kind of thing in a male-only space. I thought yesterday for the first time about how I've felt sketchy walking down dodgy streets and stuff before, but that while I always think of the "keys in the fist" type advice, I also kind of rationalise in my head that people are likely just going to want my stuff and will otherwise leave me alone, so if I just pass my phone over unlocked and give them all the cash I have on me, I'm probably going to escape unharmed (if shaken). It seems obvious in hindsight, but for women that experience is fundamentally different because an attacker is more likely to want you, rather than anything you have on you, and even in the case of a "less violent" attacker (i.e. not physically planning to stab you or something) you're still likely to come out of it harmed by the experience more than I would if someone jumped out of a bush with a knife on me.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:53
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I've always found the keys in the fist thing weird as it's a crap way to punch as it makes it hard to ball your fist properly and if you don't know how or aren't used to punching is completely useless anyway. Much better to just carry a knife.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:56
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I have no idea of the answer to your question but having been a repeat victim of female-on-male domestic violence in two separate relationships I've found police involvement to invariably make things worse, so apply with caution. I don't know how that applies to "ordinary" male-on-female DV, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable can give you some more useful advice.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:58
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NotJustANumber99 posted:altering consumption of media, from generally sexist things to outright pornography. Lol when i said this I phrased it badly and did not mean men should just always be watching pornography.
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Mar 12, 2021 10:59
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Flayer posted:I've always found the keys in the fist thing weird as it's a crap way to punch as it makes it hard to ball your fist properly and if you don't know how or aren't used to punching is completely useless anyway. I think you'd get better mileage out of holding a roll of coins or something similarly dense in your fist, if you weren't keen on bringing a knife with you everywhere. Most people couldn't open a knife in a shaky-hands adrenaline panic without hurting themselves, and i doubt a lot of ladies are going to carry Bowie knives around.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:00
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Lol when i said this I phrased it badly and did not mean men should just always be watching pornography.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:04
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Failed Imagineer posted:I think you'd get better mileage out of holding a roll of coins or something similarly dense in your fist, if you weren't keen on bringing a knife with you everywhere. Most people couldn't open a knife in a shaky-hands adrenaline panic without hurting themselves, and i doubt a lot of ladies are going to carry Bowie knives around. Guns for women then.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:07
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