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swickles posted:Yeah, the line about taking power from those who don't deserve it made me think she isn't a straight up villain and probably takes power from mostly not good guys over time. So even though selfishly motivated, she ultimately does good. It's the same thing Mordo does and he's portrayed villainously.
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Mar 12, 2021 01:16
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swickles posted:Yeah, the line about taking power from those who don't deserve it made me think she isn't a straight up villain and probably takes power from mostly not good guys over time. So even though selfishly motivated, she ultimately does good. Well, one thing to consider is that the Ancient One was almost certainly aware of Agatha and chose not to stop/kill her. Maybe AO didn't necessarily approve of Agatha, but considered here to be... useful in some ways - especially for weeding out and removing irresponsible sorcerers. Who knows? It's possible that Agatha was the one who clued the AO on how to draw power from the Dark Dimension to slow aging. Maybe we'll get an after credits scene from DS2 Strange: I think you've got the basics of magic down, Wanda, but I have a lot of duties and can't really take on an apprentice now. Wanda: Well, what am I supposed to do, then? Strange: I did find somebody who owes me a favor for dispelling a working that trapped them in a false persona. She's unconventional, but knows a lot about magic. Wanda: Wait, you don't mean- Agatha: Hiya, hon!
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Mar 12, 2021 01:25
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I would legitimately lol and enjoy that
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Mar 12, 2021 02:24
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swickles posted:Yeah, the line about taking power from those who don't deserve it made me think she isn't a straight up villain and probably takes power from mostly not good guys over time. So even though selfishly motivated, she ultimately does good. Sure, but you can make a similar argument for a lot of MCU villains, yes? They often have sympathetic and understandable motivations, and are almost never "straight-up villains" because that's usually really boring to watch. Agatha is the villain because her goal is to steal Wanda's powers through deceit and/or force. The objective goodness vs. badness of Agatha and Wanda seems like a pretty unnecessary calculus, since they're gonna fight either way. The fact Agatha has a point about Wanda being dangerously unstable is just good texture. Just as Mordo has a point about reckless magic having unforeseeable consequences, or Zemo has a point about the unaccountable destruction caused by the Avengers, and Killmonger has a point about Wakanda being complicit through inaction in the subjugation of black people. Marvel stories often let in that level of moral ambiguity...I honestly wish they did more of it. If anything, I'm happy that WandaVision resisted pulling their punch in the end. Because Wanda did a Bad Thing; there really isn't any apologizing for it, and it'd feel absolutely hollow if she'd tried. Possible supervillain Scarlet Witch is a great way to close out the show.
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Mar 12, 2021 02:50
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Xealot posted:Agatha is the villain because her goal is to steal Wanda's powers through deceit and/or force. The objective goodness vs. badness of Agatha and Wanda seems like a pretty unnecessary calculus, since they're gonna fight either way. Well, to me, that really wasn't Agatha's goal at the start. I think her initial goals were to figure who Wanda was and how she did what she did. I mocked D&D earlier but magic in the MCU seems a little like that in D&D because both are essentially about "super-powers" being channeled by a skill. A "first level wizard" isn't going to cast a Meteor Swarm. So as far as Agatha was concerned, some magical noob couldn't cast something as intricate as the Westview Hex. It'd be like going to the center of your town and finding that somebody had built a full-scale replica of the Taj Mahal there overnight. So, what is Wanda? Some millennia old witch from Atlantis? Some kind of goddess or demon? Something stranger/scarier? Agatha starts out gently because she dealing with the unknown. She gets a little more confident (and a little less patient) as time goes on, realizing that the only way she'll get anything useful out of Wanda is to break her out of the weird delusions she's manifesting. Finally Agatha gets what she needs to know, like finding the guy who built the Taj and learning that he felt really sad and just pooped it out somehow. Which means that Wanda is the Scarlet Witch, someone supposedly destined to destroy the world. That's when Agatha decided to take Wanda's power.
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Mar 12, 2021 03:25
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Everyone posted:Well, one thing to consider is that the Ancient One was almost certainly aware of Agatha and chose not to stop/kill her. Maybe AO didn't necessarily approve of Agatha, but considered here to be... useful in some ways - especially for weeding out and removing irresponsible sorcerers. Who knows? It's possible that Agatha was the one who clued the AO on how to draw power from the Dark Dimension to slow aging. This is good and what I would personally like to see.
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Mar 12, 2021 06:27
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mind the walrus posted:This is good and what I would personally like to see. It's either going to be this or something Wanda unleashes/does causes her to get Agatha for help (since that's what the in show line implies).
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Mar 12, 2021 17:32
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Cat Army
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It feels p safe to say that Agatha will likely be aligned with the "heroes" next time we get to hang with her. I guess it's possible she's not but she came across as a grey enough character that I'd be surprised if she wasn't given her connection will be to Wanda and she's probably only getting broken out by her or Strange. Mordo it seemed like would just off her as easy pickings.
The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 17:59
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Agatha can be Ross' Wanda analogue in the Thunderbolts.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:35
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Am I missing something, or did the "Making of Wandavision" show not air today? (I'm in Germany, so our Disney+ doesn't always get everything at the same time as America)
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Mar 12, 2021 18:43
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Dave Syndrome posted:Am I missing something, or did the "Making of Wandavision" show not air today? We have it here in Denmark. It's not under the WandaVision tab, but under Marvel Studios Assembled.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:46
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Dave Syndrome posted:Am I missing something, or did the "Making of Wandavision" show not air today? I just watched it in the Netherlands. It's called 'Marvel studios Assembled'.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt9ihEgJIZs Gandalf confirmed as part of the MCU! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIG-HSaiotU
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Mar 12, 2021 18:59
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The Assembled for WandaVision is about an hour. It doesn't really contain anything that hadn't already been talked about by the various production people already, but it's a nice general overview of the production. It's interesting how several of the crew refer to it as a movie a couple of times, so you get the sense that Marvel and Feige are really treating it like one.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:05
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I don't get why people think Agatha is at all heroic. Our first view of her origin is her tampering with dark magic, pretending to be innocent, briefly getting very vicious, and then literally eating the magic and youth out of the coven and her mother using that dark magic. Before walking away with a smile. Her whole plan at the end was to steal Wanda's scarlet witch mojo, then leave her trapped in the broken Hex that she would no longer have complete control of (if she survived? Since wanda was aging just like the witches killed at the beginning). Which would have just made the Hex longer lasting, trapping these enslaved people for longer, this time entirely purposefully. Sure, Agatha doesn't look like an 'I want to end the world' Thanos level threat, but she sure is willing to continually trap thousands of people in their own bodies and kill anyone who is willing to try and stop her from taking more power. She spells (lel) out that her ultimate plan is to leave thousands of people trapped, especially Wanda. Now she is the one trapped. Yeah, it's a cruel and unusual punishment, but it is also having done on to her exactly what she intended to many others, which makes it karma in a way. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 19:12
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Oasx posted:We have it here in Denmark. It's not under the WandaVision tab, but under Marvel Studios Assembled. Angry-Alphs posted:I just watched it in the Netherlands. It's called 'Marvel studios Assembled'. Thanks, now I know what to watch out for. Yeah, not here yet in Germany. Just like the Muppet Show :-(
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Mar 12, 2021 19:17
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Dave Syndrome posted:Thanks, now I know what to watch out for. Yeah, not here yet in Germany. Just like the Muppet Show :-( That's weird it should be an international release, right?. Are you sure it didn't have its title translate? It was translated in my country as "Unidos", so it took me a while to realize it was the behind the scenes show.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:41
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KittyEmpress posted:I don't get why people think Agatha is at all heroic. I don't think anyone is labelling her heroic. Evil? Harder to say given that she just seems selfish. She's not out there actively hurting the townsfolk, she just doesn't care about them. As long as she gets what she wants, I don't think she cares. If saving everyone got her what she wanted, it feels like she'd do that just as easily.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:56
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The Making Of should be watched, if only for Hahn going full ham in the additional footage for the "And I killed Sparky, too!" scene.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:11
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The Notorious ZSB posted:I don't think anyone is labelling her heroic. Evil? Harder to say given that she just seems selfish. She's not out there actively hurting the townsfolk, she just doesn't care about them. As long as she gets what she wants, I don't think she cares. If saving everyone got her what she wanted, it feels like she'd do that just as easily. As opposed to Wanda, who is selfish, IS actively hurting the townsfolk BUT is also trying to rationalize that hurting as making their lives safer and happier and better, DOES care about them given that she plans to free them once confronted by the true nature of her crime, and ultimately saves everyone even though it explicitly TAKES AWAY everything she wanted.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:11
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The point of the people of Westview coming up to Wanda and begging her to end their torture was to show her that it WAS torture for them. The hex was created unintentionally and she didn't realize before the what it was doing to the people who were in it. She's overwhelmed and surprised but does try to take down the hex.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:24
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The musical section in the Wandavision Assembled made me smile so much.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:00
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So could have Dr. Strange or Captain Marvel sorted this out in 5 minutes? I don't know much about their comics abilities.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:17
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Desperado Bones posted:That's weird it should be an international release, right?. Are you sure it didn't have its title translate? Thanks for the suggestion, but I have my menu and audio language set to English, so it always shows me the English titles. Guess I'll just have to wait.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:26
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happyhippy posted:So could have Dr. Strange or Captain Marvel sorted this out in 5 minutes? Strange yes. Stuff like this is supposed to be the sorcerer supremes job. In the comic version of these events he admitted he was a failure. He isn’t sorcerer supreme in the MCU to my knowledge so maybe it wasn’t his gig. Captain Marvel no. This isn’t really a problem you can punch/laser blast your way out of.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:35
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Edmund Lava posted:Strange yes. Stuff like this is supposed to be the sorcerer supremes job. In the comic version of these events he admitted he was a failure. He isn’t sorcerer supreme in the MCU to my knowledge so maybe it wasn’t his gig. I think he is given that he's the Ancient One's successor. I don't know if there's been some special wizard coronation ceremony for it, but yeah, Strange is pretty much Earth's Magic Cop now. Edmund Lava posted:Captain Marvel no. This isn’t really a problem you can punch/laser blast your way out of. That point is made explicitly clear when Wanda Vision and White Vision stop trying to punch/laser each other and settle things with a philosophical discussion revolving around the Ship of Theseus.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:50
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Edmund Lava posted:Strange yes. Stuff like this is supposed to be the sorcerer supremes job. In the MCU, Doctor Strange is not the Sorcerer Supreme, yet.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:06
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Umbra Dubium posted:The Making Of should be watched, if only for Hahn going full ham in the additional footage for the "And I killed Sparky, too!" scene. animeluva1 posted:The musical section in the Wandavision Assembled made me smile so much. These are basically the only parts worth it, though. The rest is extremely basic "making of" stuff, packed with, "Marvel is doing stuff no one else has ever done before" said about a million times over. Like, did you know they used wires to make them fly? And green screens? Wild.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:18
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thrawn527 posted:Like, did you know they used wires to make them fly? And green screens ? Wild. Hey, don't you know this episode hasn't been out 72 hours yet?!?!?!? Guess I don't need to watch the behind the scenes stuff now......
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Mar 12, 2021 22:47
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Bleck posted:In the MCU, Doctor Strange is not the Sorcerer Supreme, yet. Then who is Agatha referring to when she tells Wanda her power surpasses the Sorcerer Supreme?
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Mar 12, 2021 22:49
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pik_d posted:Then who is Agatha referring to when she tells Wanda her power surpasses the Sorcerer Supreme? Its a title, like President or Chairman.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:58
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Seedge posted:Hey, don't you know this episode hasn't been out 72 hours yet?!?!?!? Hey hey hey. Hey. I changed it to 48 hours.
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Mar 12, 2021 23:10
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So far in the MCU it's(Sorceror Supreme) basically meaningless except that it was Tilda Swinton's job, but in the comics it's a role that is default held by the most powerful/knowledgeable sorcerer and that person assumes all the responsibilities and gets a bunch of perks just by being the best, and the title gets passed on in a variety of vague ways but mainly the current one biting the bullet. pretty sure #2 in line is Doom lol but i don't think he wants the job
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Mar 12, 2021 23:15
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Rockstar Massacre posted:pretty sure #2 in line is Doom lol but i don't think he wants the job He doesn't exist yet, but I want to campaign for Christophe Waltz as Doom.
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Mar 12, 2021 23:17
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The_Doctor posted:He doesn't exist yet, but I want to campaign for Christophe Waltz as Doom. I have it on good authority that Chistophe Waltz does, in fact, exist.
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Mar 12, 2021 23:21
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Do you have any proof?
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Mar 12, 2021 23:34
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Collapsing Farts posted:Do you have any proof? I...dammit.
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Mar 12, 2021 23:39
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It's kind of hilarious how short the bit on Evan Peters is, with no mention of any other relevant roles he may have been cast as.
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Mar 13, 2021 00:39
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The World Inferno posted:It's kind of hilarious how short the bit on Evan Peters is, with no mention of any other relevant roles he may have been cast as. That does make me wonder if they haven't fully decided to be done with him or not. Maybe he shows up in Doctor Strange 2 as his exact MCU character or maybe they just write him off for good. But I really do think the final decision hasn't been made about him as Quicksilver going forward.
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Mar 13, 2021 01:23
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Mage_Boy posted:That does make me wonder if they haven't fully decided to be done with him or not. Maybe he shows up in Doctor Strange 2 as his exact MCU character or maybe they just write him off for good. But I really do think the final decision hasn't been made about him as Quicksilver going forward. He sure doesn't seem as excited to be part of the MCU like the rest of the cast. Anyway you guys are nuts, that was great, Olsen & Bettany & Hahn & Rupp & Parris are so charismatic that it's totally heartwarming and funny and captivating just to watch them talk about their jobs. Same thing with a lot of the crew, like the composers and Jac Schaeffer and stuff. Maybe they were full of poo poo, just putting on a good face, but to me, this crew seemed like people that were truly, genuinely excited and grateful to be able to show their love of these old sitcom eras that they grew up with and to bring Wanda's hopes and dreams and sadness and tragedy to life. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Mar 13, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 01:48
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