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Is Graven Ashe slowly going insane from feeling the pain and deaths of his troops? Cuz that seems like a Kyros thing to do to "gift" such an ability to a former enemy turned lackey. Also I wonder if the ability also dispenses kool aid to the soldiers, like a passive mind control. Not saying the constant racism and assholery isn't legion fault, but it would be the chefs kiss to find out that Ashe is similar to Nerat with horrifying mind power implications, but on a broader scale.
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Mar 7, 2021 17:17
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LMAO, I noticed Barik said it's super rare for a Disfavored to survive their tour of duty, which means for all Graven Ashe has the reputation of keeping his soldiers safe he's not even doing that, he's just making sure you can milk more blood out of them before they collapse.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:55
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It's remarkable just how much better the writing is in the main game (or how much worse in the DLC). Ashe's Archon status relies upon his troops, so protecting them is useful to him only so far as that maintains his status. He clearly got defeated by Kyros' forces and opted to take a route out that allowed him to preserve his forces and his own power and magic; what's more, we're now learning that his own children were a part of those forces, and that his loyalty is much more to them than to his regular soldiers. I am a bit sad the game doesn't allow you to challenge Barik by pointing out that, after Ashe lost lots of soldiers to a river, he sent more to attempt precisely the same crossing in the same way. And of course, after getting across the river, those troops wanted to bring Kyros' peace and order by trapping all the villagers in their homes and then burning the whole place down. (I am guessing that barns, silos, and other locations with foodstuffs or livestock would have been looted before being razed.) I suppose killing everyone brings peace, of a sort. But Ashe's behavior looks to me like someone who knows that Kyros accepted his service mainly as an opportunity to punish him for past resistance before disposing of him, and he's responding by sullenly executing direct orders in a way designed to be as counterproductive as possible. As someone without Nerat's ridiculous arrogance about his ability to keep a secret, Ashe would certainly want to avoid any direct contact with a Fatebinder. He is definitely up to no good. I also have to speculate about his power: if he takes his soldiers' pain when they are wounded, and absorbs their injuries, does that mean he suffers them all himself? Or does he just sort of spread them around the entire troop? And what does he take from his soldiers when they are not being wounded? As for his endgame: he refuses to recruit except from Northerners, and I'm guessing their family heritage matters as well. Right now, he's completely cut off and depends entirely upon Kyros' good will to get reinforcements (and Kyros has no good will), so his present forces are all he'll ever have. He may have been hoping to live long enough to see Nerat fall out of favor and take an Edict to the face, leaving him in charge of the remaining armed forces, but that clearly didn't happen, and Kyros is rapidly running out of territory to conquer, at which point Ashe is at least as big a liability as Nerat. I think Ashe is a seething ball of rage, not thinking very clearly, and so terrified that he's afraid to make a move openly. If he's always feeling the pain of his soldiers, and his son was a soldier, why didn't he respond instantly when his son was captured and absorbed by Nerat? He's clinging to power while losing everything supposedly important to him, and that suggests that power is the end for him, not the means to an end. And it's probably going to be his end, as well. In the Kyros versus Ashe battle of wits, Kyros appears to have entirely triumphed. The only question is how much damage Ashe and Nerat can inflict while they're still around, and so long as it isn't total, Kyros can sweep in as savior after those disasters and reasonably claim that Ashe and Nerat were acting independently. An aside: I wonder whether Ashe's magic doesn't require a blood-tie between him and all his soldiers. It's possible the racial supremacy underpinning the Disfavored is actually baked into Ashe's Archonhood, which means he's even more screwed, because everyone related to him is doomed to be thrown into the woodchipper in order to perpetuate his own power for a little time longer. His own little fascist army has a "best-by" date in large part because of his inability to put their benefit above his own: he could readily expand the family and the bloodline, but everything he's constructed renders that impossible.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:57
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Xarn posted:Wrong portrait I think. Fixed, thank you! mortons stork posted:just a quick note, adding to this: phalanx combat is terribly boring to represent (personal opinion here) and phalanx tactics are also incredibly bad on mountainous terrain, something the Romans found out at terrible expense fighting the Samnites, and which resulted in them figuring out alternative ways of organizing their units more flexibly (namely, the maniple) so as to not get their asses kicked. Oh, it's even better than that. Bleden Mark on Graven Ashe posted:
Not only are these tactics kicking his rear end, but they're using similar tactics to those he used to fight Kyros. The military genius cannot fight against the tactics he used himself. Donkringel posted:Is Graven Ashe slowly going insane from feeling the pain and deaths of his troops? Kyros doesn't actually grant the Archons their abilities. She can distort their reputation, but Ashe started developing his powers without her. We'll get more into the implications of his abilities in Act 3, but the kool-aid is very much the "popular elitism" that Eco talks about. Eco's Ur-Fascism posted:Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak. Ur-Fascism can only advocate a popular elitism. Every citizen belongs to the best people of the world, the members of the party are the best among the citizens, every citizen can (or ought to) become a member of the party. But there cannot be patricians without plebeians. In fact, the Leader, knowing that his power was not delegated to him democratically but was conquered by force, also knows that his force is based upon the weakness of the masses; they are so weak as to need and deserve a ruler. Since the group is hierarchically organized (according to a military model), every subordinate leader despises his own underlings, and each of them despises his inferiors. This reinforces the sense of mass elitism. The contempt for underlings is present in the legion's treatment of Barik. All that said, it would not surprise me if Ashe was selected to join Kyros rather than die because his power and reputation was so limited. He certainly doesn't have any demonstrated ability to make friends with the other Archons who might object if he got killed by Edict in the Tiers, and nobody trusts him because they all remember his history as a traitor.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:06
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: Ashe was some bannerman in the Northern Kingdom, and while his countrymen were butchered in the war, his band were a killing shadow in the mountains.
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mortons stork posted:just a quick note, adding to this: phalanx combat is terribly boring to represent (personal opinion here) and phalanx tactics are also incredibly bad on mountainous terrain, something the Romans found out at terrible expense fighting the Samnites, and which resulted in them figuring out alternative ways of organizing their units more flexibly (namely, the maniple) so as to not get their asses kicked. Uhhh the phalanx is great in mountainous terrain. It's literally made for it. That's why the phalanx was used so heavily in Greece, noted place what has lots of mountains. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 19:20
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you are supposed to parley beforehands, find a suitable location agreed upon and then go at it this laws-of-war thing goes away real fast once peeps are actually threatened existentially lol https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6yj8p9/why_did_the_greeks_develop_the_phalanx_a/ really its an extension of a pretty universal facet of premodern tribal warfare, which is that the declared wars are way less fatal than the ambushes at 2am bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 19:26
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I think what shaped Greek warfare that way was also the presence of the cities, the cities are relatively large and are allowed to be so by having enough flat farmland around them, that's why the various small polities that the Ten Thousand bully in northern Anatolia in Xenophon's Anabasis are using light infantry and so on, they are small and actually located in mountains, but all largish Greek cities have flat land and that means the key action of laying a siege and loving up a siege is going to happen there, with bonus theaters of war being the travel and / or resupply by land or sea (remarkably important in the Peloponesian War, in particular, but the rest of the time also). The Greeks have their decisive battlegrounds defaulting to flatish terrain and therefore adapt to fight decisively there.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:09
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Narsham posted:And of course, after getting across the river, those troops wanted to bring Kyros' peace and order by trapping all the villagers in their homes and then burning the whole place down. (I am guessing that barns, silos, and other locations with foodstuffs or livestock would have been looted before being razed.) I suppose killing everyone brings peace, of a sort. The Disfavored make a desert and call it peace.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:12
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Being challenged on my absorbed notions on military history has prompted me to start looking for sources, and led me to learn a whole lot about historiography re-contextualising innovations in military tactics by the Romans vis a vis what I personally learned back when I studied. https://www.ancientworldmagazine.com/articles/why-abandon-phalanx-problems-rome/ So yes, the question of the phalanx's effectiveness on rugged terrain is not as cut and dry as I presented it apparently, and there's a whole lot of unspoken assumptions when talking about the reasons for the invention of the Roman maniple. So thanks for the opportunity. More on topic, I feel like the writers read something very similar to what I did and was taught wrt phalanxes vs maniples on mountainous terrain. With that quote from Bleden Mark that Evil King pointed out, it is such a perfect symbolic inversion for Graven Ashe that it can't not have been on purpose.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:59
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Narsham posted:I suppose killing everyone brings peace, of a sort. But Ashe's behavior looks to me like someone who knows that Kyros accepted his service mainly as an opportunity to punish him for past resistance before disposing of him, and he's responding by sullenly executing direct orders in a way designed to be as counterproductive as possible. this is an interesting idea and it would make the character of Graven Ashe incredibly more relatable : faking his incompetence and concealing it with pride just to make it look like he's serving his new master while he's actually hindering their progress, basically plans within plans within plans but judging from what I've seen so far I have a feeling that he's a simpler character, meant to portray the dangers of pride, arrogance, elitism and propaganda anyway good to see that this type of speculation has resumed, quite the whiplash after that DLC writing
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Mar 7, 2021 22:54
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Yeah I don't get the feeling that Ashe is trying to hinder the machine from the inside - he seems to be thoroughly broken and has deluded himself into believing that there is honour in serving a tyrant because it's the "winning side".
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Mar 7, 2021 23:02
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah I don't get the feeling that Ashe is trying to hinder the machine from the inside - he seems to be thoroughly broken and has deluded himself into believing that there is honour in serving a tyrant because it's the "winning side". Even then, Tunon is a far better example of a man who's dangerous because he sincerely believes he's doing the right thing.
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Mar 7, 2021 23:07
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Tiersmen being noted as 'fearing magic' is interesting and I don't think it's come up that much before. I suppose it makes sense, if all magic is derived from channeling the Archons, and almost all the Archons are under Kyros' control. It'd be seen as pretty risky! I don't think the Scarlet Chorus being barely functional is by accident, either by the game's writers or by Nerat and Kyros. They have the Scarlet Furies and Blood Chanters as their core, and they roll into an area, beat up the peasants and forcibly recruit them, growing larger until they finish with an area, at which point a bunch of them probably do immediately desert. They're very much obsessed with perpetual warfare, and the conquest of the Tiers is an existential threat for the Chorus as there will no longer be a recruiting pool for them to roll over. They're basically in decline as the game starts, with the bands of them around the Bastard City basically just being bandits and raiders to the local populace. Nerat is in charge of the Chorus, but he doesn't lead them in the same way that Ashe is (theoretically) leading the Disfavored. They're a tool for him, the laziest way for him to accomplish his mission and get what he wants.
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Mar 8, 2021 00:19
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mortons stork posted:Being challenged on my absorbed notions on military history has prompted me to start looking for sources, and led me to learn a whole lot about historiography re-contextualising innovations in military tactics by the Romans vis a vis what I personally learned back when I studied. What the gently caress, you are being entirely too reasonable and talking about learning. This is the internet! I demand some sort of ad hominem of strawman defense. Kidding aside, I do love that feeling when you go "Whoa wait a minute, let's check our understanding and look more in depth", and then find out this pool is so much deeper than you dreamed!
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Mar 8, 2021 03:13
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah I don't get the feeling that Ashe is trying to hinder the machine from the inside - he seems to be thoroughly broken and has deluded himself into believing that there is honour in serving a tyrant because it's the "winning side". Not suggesting he’s throwing fights to hinder the machine, but rather that he’s opting to do maximum damage to the land and the people that Kyros wants to rule. Murdering civilians and embittering the survivors is a good way to screw with Kyros’ “peace” and plays into the racist attitudes of his troops. In effect, Ashe’s version of fascism is aimed at preserving his Disfavored and his own power, and nothing further. As Kyros, not Ashe, will rule over conquered territories, Ashe does not especially care about the condition of those territories or its peoples after conquest. Hence putting people to the sword, burning or earthquake-devastating wide swaths of territory, and ensuring that any locals who survive will hate Kyros to their dying day. Ashe is, as we’ve seen, capable of planting spies of his own locally. He understands the basics of human psychology and behavior. He also values the well-being of the locals even less than Nerat. There’s a reason Nerat ended up with the Archon who can convince and recruit people while Ashe ended up with the one who can kill people and level buildings, cities, and the whole countryside. Ashe’s petty acts aren’t any meaningful threat to Kyros, either: I suspect she cares more about the Tiers because they aren’t officially under her rule and because they have both natural resources and Spires, with the people a secondary consideration.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:14
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I'm late to this but am loving this LP. I never would have played this as I don't use my PC for games so this has been a fun way to experience the game. TheGreatEvilKing, I have to commend you for your regular summaries of dialogue/cutscenes. Always a joy to read your characterisation of events  . They're also very handy if I want to scan through past updates to check something.
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Mar 8, 2021 13:53
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Alright, Sirin is definitely in the party, but we have a tie between Verse and Lantry. Thus we are going to flip a Aurelian Coin, heads is Verse, tails is Lantry.  And I get heads, thus preventing me from having 2 extra spell slots on Cleo and Sirin. Oh well!
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Mar 10, 2021 05:22
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Cleopatra Jones and the Forced Violence Last time on Tyranny, we had a long chat with Barik about his love of Graven Ashe and how the Disfavored are basically just fascists running on cognitive dissonance, racism, and a desperate need to ignore how the real world works. Today we're going to visit the Blade Grave and interact with some much more grounded people. Nah, I'm kidding, everything's about to go to poo poo.  First things first. Killsy is going to sit out of this one and we're bringing in Sirin. Tyranny actually does have XP catchup mechanisms, so Sirin here is at Cleopatra's level. But wait, there's more!  Sirin's lore was respectable, but we're going to respec her to minmax it.  With Sirin's respec she has enough lore to use the Focused Rain spells, allowing us to actually get through fights in a reasonable amount of time. We're still stuck with minute-long cooldowns, but oh well, you can't have everything.  I then dump training into Verse and Barik to get their level closer to par. They're not terrible unusable characters, but they're not nearly as good as having another mage in the party, and their job is going to be to tank while Cleo and Sirin do all the hard work.  Anyway, welcome to Sentinel Stand! It sucks!   The main attraction is this intense wind storm.   That's a name we'll hear again.  : The storm didn't leave much behind. : Tell me about the Regents. : They were bureaucrats and diplomats, all drunk on their own self-importance. Straydus Herodin never impressed me, but the people of Stalwart revered the man.We never do get an explanation of who the Regents are holding power for. The title of Regent implies a temporary position, usually because the actual monarch is too young to rule. We'll get more into this later.  Last update posted:
Yeah, shut up, Barik. The Unbroken are a mirror of the Disfavored - whereas the Disfavored surrendered and joined the tyrant, the Unbroken continued resisting in a ruined homeland fighting for a less than great ruler. We'll see how this ends for them. : You were at Sentinel Stand during the war?We know the answer, but maybe we'll learn something new. : Regrettably. The General's daughter and members of her cohort were captured in the second year of the war. By the third, we had tracked her to Sentinel Stand. We knew that the Edict was coming, but thought it worth the risks. The battle dragged on longer than it should have, and we got caught in the storm. He sights, and a cascade of sand escapes his shoulder joints.I give Barik a lot of poo poo but I can't hate him. He's one of the Disfavored, but every so often he does something that shows that he's not completely terrible (like objecting when you beat up Bitter Quip at the Matani crossing) and he often comes off as someone who makes these protestations about how much he loves Graven Ashe and the North and the Disfavored to convince himself that his suffering is meaningful rather than a true believer asking if we can kill all the Stonestalkers or if he could maybe keep one of the local women. There's a hell of a lot of repression, is what I'm saying.  It's really kind of sad. : The sword Dauntless no doubt carved many a foe at this battleground. We should continue our search.: Do you hear that? Barik cups his gauntleted hand to his ear. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 So the Bane attack. As this foreshadows, Cleopatra is going to be introduced to some new ideas about power and the nature of the Kyrosian regime. What revelations? Read and find out! Or play the game, that works too.  We learn this ability I forget to use because I can call down lightning from the heavens to strike down all who oppose me. Also, geez, Barik sure has some complicated feelings toward us.  I am playing on Hard difficulty, and we are really past the point where anything can challenge us. I'm not devoting more to this fight.   We need to talk to the guy to proceed, so on we go.  This guy is about to make the biggest mistake of his life.  : You handle the Bane well enough, but what brings you to this forsaken place? He pauses as recognition dawns in his eyes.: You're the Fatebinder of Tunon, are you not? Pretty far removed from your perch in Vendrien's Well. What brings you to Sentinel Stand? He glances to the left and right. Not the weather, I think. : The air is cleaner, but also thin - unsatisfying.Has any of this power-seeking nonsense made Cleopatra actually happy?  : I'm looking for the sword they call the Dauntless.: Then you're not here to end the Edict like you did in Azure? I knew that hope was a mistake.We actually are, and I wish we could say that. : Aye, I've heard of it, but the task sounds like a fool's errand to me. One of Stalwart's Regents carried the Dauntless during the war, but either the winds or some battle swept the sword to places unknown. Hardly surprising. At their full strength, these winds can take skin from bone. : He gestures to a stripped body at his feet. Come up here if you doubt it. Not a pretty sight.This is where the game really slams home that the artifacts represent legitimacy. The Dauntless was carried by the Regent as a symbol of authority. The Unbroken want it for reasons we'll get into soon. We want it to add it to the legend of Cleopatra Jones, rightful ruler of the Unified Tiers.  The Edict is worded thus: Kyros posted:Those who, in pride and arrogance, stand against the peace and order of Our Empire shall be ground beneath the stones of their land. Let those who call themselves Unbroken, who embrace the chaos of war in defiance of Our Order, be broken in the storms of Our Rage. Let Our storm rage until the last blade be broken, or the line of Regent falls. Hence the Unbroken want to hasten along Herodin's death so that all the storms stop ravaging their homeland and then they can...you know what, I'm not sure anyone thought that far ahead. : [Edict of Fire] I resolved Kyros' Edict in the Burning Library. That ought to count for something.I wonder why the game is tracking these edicts? Oh well, I'm sure it's not important.  It's actually a little strange he says this, as no one outside the empire is questioning Ashe or Nerat's ultimate loyalty. Tunon and Mark are, sure, but the average guy in a ruined fort is not going to be talking to Tunon or Mark. : Why are you here?: I drew the short straw. He chuckles and shakes his head. The Unbroken make a habit of patrolling the outer fortress in case the storm breaks or someone happens to emerge from the keep. If we could find a way to cross the windwall, we could take back Sentinel Stand and defend our country from a position of power.Seeing as no rebel fortress has actually managed to withstand Kyros I'm not sure why this would be any different. No, Herodin hasn't fallen in the fortress, but Kyros has turned it into an unlivable wasteland and the Unbroken into puppets. Remember, Kyros wants the Regents destroyed, she said so in her Edict!  So I screw up and end the conversation early here, but I think we have enough answers to all these questions. The Unbroken are not going to help us with the Bane because they're not very good at critical thinking. : So how can I find the Dauntless?: You likely won't, but you weren't the only one looking for the legendary blade, either. Our leader, Mattias, aimed to get his hands on Dauntless, too. We haven't seen him in some time.Mattias desperately needs to lend some legitimacy to his rebellion which is based on "ending the rulers of his country at the behest of the foreign tyrant who destroyed it."  You question Cleopatra Jones, Heir to the Sages, Inheritor of Azure, Wielder of the Magebane Helm, and ruler of the Unified Tiers in the name of Tunon and Kyros?  This might sound like we can negotiate with the Unbroken as we've negotiated with most of the other factions in the game. Sure, the Stone Sea villagers were unreasonable racist assholes, but they didn't force us to slay them all and we did well by them. We had a profitable trade with the Stonestalkers and we eliminated the assholes stealing their stuff and hunting them on their own land. The people of Lethian's Crossing remember us as the cool lady who saved them from Raetommon's idiotic plot. Just you wait. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
We loot the area offscreen and leave.  Things are about to get dumb now.  We get another berry encounter that just results in me leaving the drat berries alone. I've kind of soured on the DLC events, to be honest.  We'll have to swing by later.   I think things are breaking down here.  Barik! It's not irrational, they're racist incompetents! Present company excluded from incompetence, of course. : Everything you know about Duskwatch. Now. : Throughout the war, the Unbroken kept this fort locked up against Kyros' forces. It might not be much to look at, but the folks behind those walls are a spirited bunch. Not even the storm has broken their nerve. If the game hasn't been clear about that, the Unbroken are doing exactly what Kyros wants. Remember, the game opened with Kyros trying to destroy the Disfavored and the Scarlet Chorus. Kyros doesn't give an impolite epithet about how many Disfavored died here. Hell, we even got this little exchange with them earlier: Earlier in the game posted:That is not the quote I would expect from a man sworn to free his country from Kyros. : Tell me what the Disfavored are doing here and I might spare you.: Ashe ordered us to take the fort. Commander Osmios also says there's a Northern prisoner behind those walls. He swallows nervously, his attention darting from you to the palisade.It's kind of weird that the Disfavored are still running around the Blade Grave doing things, as they have a civil war to fight and Stalward legitimately has nothing of value right now. The land is ravaged by storms and I have yet to see a single farm or natural resource. I get their duty is nominally to suppress rebellion, but if the Scarlet Chorus moves into the area and the Disfavored aren't there that's a net win for the Disfavored. Worst case scenario, the Chorus diverts needed troops from the front and coexists with the Unbroken. Best case scenario, they fight each other. No one outside the Disfavored ever accused Ashe of being smart.  : [Dismiss him.] Go on and get out of here. I'm tired of your face. : Thank you! Never meant to get in the way of the law! The young sentry stumbles on his feet as he departs in haste.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 I guess the "supply caravan" is the answer to how the hell this fort stays supplied. As for Sentinel Strand, don't think about it too hard.   : I'm actually just seeking the Dauntless. I'm presently between loyalties.I really wish the writers had given us some other options besides "attack" and "say stupid poo poo about being disloyal to Kyros, the person of indeterminate gender who can order us recalled and executed".  Ok. Let's interrupt this conversation for a minute, fascinating as it is, to talk about the Dauntless, the Regents, and the Unbroken. Bleden Mark describes the blade as the finest in all Stalwart, but it's pretty clear from what Janos just told us it's more than that. Per Janos, the blade was carried by the Regents of Stalwart into combat, and it's clear that Agathon holds the sword to be a symbol of his country. Who are the Unbroken? Earlier in the game posted:So the Unbroken are the army of the Regents of Stalwart. The blade Dauntless is described as being carried by the Regents into combat against the enemies of Stalwart - but now that Kyros is calling for the fall of the Regents, the Unbroken have decided that the best way to defend their country is to reclaim the symbol of their country to support their new claim to legitimacy over the regents. It's literally the same thing we're doing, except Agathon is throwing the same kind of bloodline crap - a la the Disfavored - in our face. It's also a very strange confluence of symbols, as traditionally Dauntless fought for the Regents! No other rulers of Stalwart - to my knowledge - are mentioned in the game, and it's up to interpretation of whether the nineteenth/twentieth century nationalism displayed by Agathon here is enough to bind the country together in the absence of the founding myth of the regent. All this said, the Unbroken absolutely have more right to the sword and the symbolism than we do. We are a foreign conqueror trying to ingratiate ourselves with the locals to convince our masters that they're be better off letting us rule the tiers because we were thrust into a power struggle where we either triumph or die. : Janos told me that Mattias was searching for Dauntless. I can't really blame Janos for trying to be optimistic about the cause, to be honest. : You're taking this sword business awfully seriously. : You were the one who brought it up. Agathon sighs. Look, you seem nice enough, and if it weren't for everything that brought you here up to this point - yes, including the war - I'm sure we'd be fast friends.You can befriend Agathon on the rebel route, in which case the Unbroken all think it's really cool that you took Dauntless.  The irony is that, though he talks about not losing Sentinel Stand, the country has lost it anyway. No one can get in or out because of the storm. Herodin, a man the Unbroken have decided to kill to fix their country, has control of the fortress. Ultimate we are not going to solve this with words, because we need Dauntless to perpetuate the myth of Cleo of the Tiers, and the Unbroken want to perpetuate the myth of a unified and strong Stalwart. : What can I do to persuade you? The irony is that while the Unbroken have a better moral claim to Dauntless than we do, we have a better claim. Stalwart is dead. It is a wasteland full of broken lives, no food, and a bunch of people fighting in the hopes that killing their former leader will magically make Stalwart not a ruined wasteland full of dead people and invading armies. For all their independence, Diocles was happy to offer cooperation to Tunon's Court. : [Glare silently.] : [Attack] So be it. You have my permission to die. You really have no idea who you're dealing with, huh. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Captain Agathon demonstrated the heroism that would have come to define New Stalwart by running off like a coward and leaving his men to die. That's going to be a recurring theme with the Unbroken commanders.  We can break down the front gate by just...hitting it with a sword repeatedly, making me wonder what the hell the Disfavored were doing when they assaulted the fort.  It's a Tyranny battle. Nothing interesting happens and we ragdoll these idiots. Barik and Verse have gotten extremely hard to kill, and Sirin and Cleo can put out a ton of magical firepower.  Cleo levels up, and after this level I legitimately have no idea where to put talents from future levelups.  We are given the objective to kill everyone in the Unbroken camp.  Instead of say, rallying his men to the gate, Agathon just kind of hides, leaving his men to stand around and get murdered by us one at a time.  We'll be back for this guy.  This is usually the part of the game where I find the gameplay just drags, and these filler combats are not interesting enough for me to care.  Having the entire camp swarm us in waves would be a moderately interesting and intense fight, but randomly leaving these guys out to die is senseless, especially as this combat system doesn't have resources that can be exhausted a la D&D and we can recover all of our nukes by sitting around for a minute.  If Captain Agathon is a Battlestar Galactica reference, we are the Cylons. It's very nice of him to wait for our cooldowns to reset and for us to pre-buff.  They all die.  The next step is to go talk to our prisoner.  : Before you can answer, he blinks up at Barik, and the echo of a smile reaching[sic] his lips. I should have known that Barik of Battle's Rest couldn't stay out of Stalwart for long. Graven Ashe protects.Considering that Graven Ashe's protection is literally sealing Barik in his own armor and poo poo, that is an unknowingly cruel thing to say. : Graven Ashe protects. Barik nods. You can trust the Fatebinder here, within reason. Are you well, countryman?: No, in truth, but seeing you has given me the first glimpse of hope in years. With a little help, I... Callias cuts off his speech. His gaze moves past you as heavy footsteps grow in unison. Oh boy.  Seeing as Cleopatra and friends slaughtered the entire garrison that held you up so long, I don't know why you think this is going to work. : I'm not giving up this fort, but we need not come to blows. I see the Disfavored aren't even trying to pretend to follow the law anymore.  One tedious combat later...  : I'm looking for a blade called Dauntless. Know anything about that?: I saw that sword raised in triumph during the Stalwart campaign. The Unbroken rallied around it the way we cluster around Ashe. I can only guess at how much it means to them. : Why did the Unbroken need you? : Ashe's daughter survived the storms?: Amelia didn't die on the field that day. We were both taken prisoner, but I was moved here and made to suffer. The Edict hit shortly after, and I assume stymied any effort to recover us. If Straydus isn't a fool, then he's keeping her alive as a hostage for some future negotiation ploy. Barik. Barik, no! This confirms that Ashe pissed you guys away to save his own family! : For all we know, Amelia is dead. : If the Unbroken don't have Dauntless, who does?: I'm sure these Stalwart wretches are asking themselves the same thing. As far as I can tell, the sword went missing after the Edict hit.: He grunts. The leader of these Unbroken, Mattias, spoke of it at some length. He must have been confident in my capture, or else he would have used a lower tone. Wait, what? This is the first of anything we've heard of that allows someone to directly defy Kyros' Edicts. Ever. We've been breaking Edicts, sure, but as Myothis says, the Overlord wouldn't include a termination clause if he didn't at least benefit from someone doing it. This is the first time we've heard of anything that lets you just ignore the full power of an Edict and walk through the flesh-stripping storms.  : You've been very helpful. You can remain here as I found you.It's kind of annoying that we're given the opportunity to be so cruel, but he's kind of not bound apparently and he can just walk out of the ca-  I guess he's tied up again. This makes no sense! Over the last two screens his model was gesticulating like he was freed! Just go wander out and find that sentry we sent away. Whatever! TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
Seriously, I don't know why Barik doesn't ask us to spare his old war buddy when he successfully talked us out of murdering that poor kid. Is he distracted by Amelia? That's the only explanation I have. On a higher level, we can see exactly what we're up against in the Blade Grave and it's not pretty. The Unbroken and the Disfavored deserve each other - they both have a long military tradition bound up with various fictions about their heritage, their commanders are equally inept and cowardly, and they're running their entire society as a militarized hierarchy based around nationalistic myths. Callias even compares the Unbroken rallying around the Dauntless to the Disfavored rallying around Ashe. Both factions remain out of touch with reality - the Unbroken believe they're going to "free" Stalwart somehow by doing exactly what Kyros ordered them to do, and believe that Stalwart is somehow worth fighting for despite it being a deserted country with no civilians, no food, no resources, and a giant fuckoff storm summoned by Kyros. If Lethian's Crossing is about how Kyros' laws are an absolute failure as a moral and practical system, the Blade Grave is all about how playing by Kyros' rules means that Kyros always wins. Fatebinder Myothis posted:Kyros' most powerful weapon is not the Edict, it's her ability to hand us rope that we willingly use to hang ourselves - never forget this. We see the Unbroken here trying to get Dauntless so they can rally themselves not just against the Disfavored - whom Kyros wishes to destroy - but Regent Herodin as well, the nominal leader of their country and so far the only Tiers leader who is offering any resistance to Kyros. Now, Herodin has his own problems which we will see later, but once again, a running theme in this game is that a house divided gets bulldozed by Kyros. The Unbroken cannot win this. There is no Stalwart to save, no people to protect, and nothing keeping Kyros' armies out of the area once the storm goes down. We also confirm once again the ineptitude of the Disfavored. All Osmios had to do to take the fort was to just wait for us to leave. Cleopatra and friends are powerful, but they're also four people with no standing army. Once they leave the fort there's nothing stopping Osmios from just walking in there and seizing it. The best excuse I have is that they want to save Callias, but Osmios never mentions him or asks if they can have their man back. He just wanders in, makes a speech about how Graven Ashe wants the Fatebinder dead, and then gets executed for his trouble. Next time: If you had a low opinion of the Unbroken and Disfavored before just wait until we make it to the Rust Canyons!
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Mar 10, 2021 11:12
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: Hi! I couldn't successfully attack this weak fort that is both made of wood in a dry environment and has a door that is breakable by hitting it with a sword! Now, I think the Fatebinder who wiped out three entire town garrisons is going to die by my hand!
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:The next step is to go talk to our prisoner. I don't know if the flag for it is having a high Fear with Barik or just working with the Disfavored, but there's a neat line here you can get with the prisoner asking basically "Barik, what the hell, why are you still following the Fatebinder instead of Ashe". Barik's answer is along the lines of "The Fatebinder is the only one with the strength and cunning to bring order to this blasted land."
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Mar 10, 2021 12:39
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I see Tyranny is putting really strange words in Cleo's mouth again. I wonder if it's a limitation of writing or if they had to start stripping out options this late in the game due to the branching path mechanics kept breaking?
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Mar 10, 2021 16:11
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Cleopatra Jones and the Fortress of Fuckups Last time on Tyranny we attacked a fort full of Unbroken because they wouldn't give us the information for the artifact we need to build the legend of Cleopatra Jones, because they were too busy using it to create a screwed up version of their national myth.  I didn't mention it last update, but the setup for the Anarchist is really contrived. First we meet Janos, the one Unbroken who thinks we deserve the Dauntless for some reason, then we go to Captain Agathon and instead of deciding to, say, sneak around his camp or offer his men bribes or something we just slaughter them all and conveniently find a Disfavored prisoner, who, once again, is simply hanging around while the Unbroken commanders yell about their plans.  Now we're going to try to convince Elia that she should cooperate with us so we can run off with the national emblem of Stalwart and use it to prop up our myth as a Northerner who nonetheless deserves rulership of the Tiers. We can't be worse than Graven Ashe, right?  This is just another reminder of the ultimate reward for following Kyros - to be disposed of when Kyros decides you're no longer useful.  : Are you all right, soldier?: He turns to you in bafflement, squinting across the dust-strewn expanse, recognition barely evident in his gaze. : Before he can continue, you both catch the sound of iron boots trudging closer. This is going to go well.  The thing to remember is that "war crimes" is a serious enough charge to convict an Archon. Killing escaping prisoners is, by modern standards, a war crime conducted by actual Nazis - like Hitler shooting all the airmen in the Great Escape. Now, for the Bronze Age, this is kind of "whatever" (gotta keep the slaves down!) but Teodor here is a worthless rear end in a top hat and we're supposed to see him as such. The Geneva Convention posted:The use of weapons against prisoners of war, especially against those who are escaping or attempting to escape, shall constitute an extreme measure, which shall always be preceded by warnings appropriate to the circumstances. : Stop this at once!As I recall, in practice the war crimes laws don't apply to "oathbreakers", so we have no idea what the hell the law is (does Kyros' Peace protect this man? Is this a war crime?) but it's fairly clearly morally wrong. The man is defenseless, wounded, and begging for mercy, and Teodor is a sick gently caress whining about how murdering this man just isn't fun enough.  Again we get referred to Graven Ashe as the guy authorizing this stuff. Earlier in the game posted:
Right now we're seeing what all the Disfavored talk of honor is - a facade to disguise the fact that under the iron armor and lies about discipline, they're the same violent thugs as the Scarlet Chorus. Teodor here isn't some random rear end in a top hat, he's a Disfavored officer. Earlier in the game posted:This is a lie! I know we discussed this, but look at that "kill for sport" line. We haven't seen Graven Ashe kill anyone for sport personally - mostly because he hides in his tent instead of, you know, leading his men - but he tolerates behavior like this, and as the commander, is held personally responsible. If Graven Ashe didn't tolerate this kind of behavior, how did Teodor make the officer corps? This isn't an isolated incident, either. The very beginning of the game posted:It's basically the same as the Confederates executing black soldiers because the black men challenged their idiotic racism.  This is who the Disfavored truly are when no one holds them accountable.  : The Disfavored soldier turns to the Unbroken camp, frustration evident in his tone. Then his gaze shifts over to you, and back to the walls.: Are these your allies now, Elia - traitors and miscreants who break wars rather than win them? Teodor shakes his head. Better that you open your gates to me and preserve your dignity.  : I don't believe we've been introduced. : She spits over the edge. How's that for your courtly greeting? Oh boy, Teodor, I can't believe you offered to put her in a position to be a slave so you could rape her, how could any woman turn down such a gentleman?  Let's go to the fort, maybe Elia will help us?  You're going to refuse and make us do a bunch of tedious combat, aren't you? : Her expression twists with sudden recognition. Aren't you the one who hosed over Agathon at Duskwatch? We have nothing to say to one another. Either you're Graven Ashe's favorite comfort soldier or you just like to see honest folk die. Either way, you're a pile of Beast poo poo to me.This kind of lands hollow because, again, the game doesn't give you a choice if you're on the Anarchy path. There is no option to stealth into Agathon's fort to free the prisoner (this game does have stealth mechanics!) or just lie to him and say you need it to break the Edict.  : I hear you're looking for artifacts. Found anything? : Do you truly believe that you can win? This is the exact same logic the Vendrien Guard used, and their rebellion was crushed and now one of their leaders owes Cleopatra personal allegiance. Stalwart has already lost. : This camp will fall today. Surrender to me, or sentence your soldiers to death. That's real easy to say from inside the fortress, missy! : I already know that the Disfavored are looking for artifacts of Stalwart. I also know that they're searching blind. I'll take my knowledge to the grave if it keeps you out of Sentinel Stand. You can count on that. : [Attack] I didn't come to negotiate anyway. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 So all these dumbasses get firestormed outside the gate.  As it turns out this gate is surprisingly swordable. Presumably Teodor was too busy drawing dicks in his Disfavored sketchbook to actually do the one job the Disfavored were supposedly good at.  Elia fled like a coward, but set up this fairly competent pincer movement from the guys on the bottom. Unfortunately for her, Cleopatra is an RPG protagonist and is perfectly capable of butchering all these idiots trivially.  Yeah, I don't know what they thought was going to happen.  Even with our crazy ubermagic these guys are a fat sack of hit points with no interesting abilities where the outcome is predetermined in our favor but we have to play it out.  Seriously! Look at the health bars. I don't have cheats enabled or anything, we've got enough lifesteal and tankiness that this poo poo doesn't matter.  So, guess what? We have to butcher our way through the entire fort of boring HP sacks to get to Elia.   Zzz  Not even the wiki knows what this sigil is. It would be nice if we'd gotten a new one here, but...  Again, this would be more interesting if the entire camp rallied to a point and swarmed us, but I guess we're grinding these dorks for experience.  Zzz.  By murdering all these bozos, we got an aura that degrades enemy armor. Hooray!  What a senseless waste of human life.   Anyway, we need to shoot the winch to...  ...lower the drawbridge Elia is hiding behind with three guys. Like I said, none of this makes sense and she just comes off as a truly inept commander. The initial ambush made sense, but it should have been sprung when the gates were closed and instead of pulling all the guys back they should have been throwing spears and whatnot. Instead she wasted the gate guards, wasted a bunch of men on an unsuccessful ambush she could have reinforced but didn't, wasted a bunch of men by leaving them outside the drawbridge area to get slaughtered piecemeal, and is now going to go into fighting a dangerous Fatebinder who has wiped out three separate city garrisons singlehandedly with herself and three other guys.  You and what army? The one I just killed?   : Give me the artifact and I will spare you.: I've heard it all before. This is only going to end one way, but that doesn't mean I'll make it easy for you.Ok, so I guess you'll fight and die and we'll have to find another le-  What a worthless coward.  We get an animation of the gate slamming shut and these men agreeing to die for...what, exactly? A ruined country whose sovereign they are fighting to end? A leader who fled and abandoned them in the face of a tyrant? Elia really comes off as a completely incompetent idiot who is unable to lead a band of men and I suspect the only reason the fort has held out as long as it has is because Teodor is also incompetent.  All of the garrison we've killed could have rallied here and made it a hard fight. This just sucks!  Barik has fought in these lands before.   Why are you doing this? You could have rallied the garrison while Cleo attacked the gate. You could have rained missile fire while Cleo attacked the drawbridge. There are even traps scattered around here, you could have slowly tried to wear the party down by withdrawing to prepared positions. This isn't fun to play through, it's not fun to write about, and I don't have much commentary besides "the Unbroken are Disfavored level idiots and also this is boring".   We can push this boulder to reveal...  What the hell is going on, and why aren't you in the fort? Why is our only option to attack these men? The game presents the Fatebinder as happy to lie when it suits their purposes, why can't we lie and say we're part of the Dauntless hunting party?  Sure, why not.  For randomly attacking and murdering these guys we get this dagger, which goes into the stash of unique named items I forget we have. We don't want it on Verse, she tanks by being evasive. Barik could use it, I guess, but he doesn't really take a lot of damage. Kills-in-Shadow might want it, but she's not really a dagger user. I have no idea if this ability applies to spells. If it does, I guess we could use it with the blood magic sigil, but you gotta pester Fifth Eye for that one and I failed to do so. Oh well!   Ok, that's it, let's fast forward through the boring combats and finding Elia, shall we?  I...what?  : Never thought I'd live to see Kyros' forces leaping and snarling at each other. Do you fight this way in the North, or do you only lose control during important battles? : Don't act like the South has its poo poo in order. We were slaughtering dynasties for strips of land long before Kyros showed up.This is how the Unbroken got all their combat experience.  : Are we having fun yet, Verse?: Are you kidding? This is more fun than skinning Beastmen in the winter! I should have joined your gang years ago, We are? I thought you were running like a coward leaving your men behind to die.  This battle is mildly interesting because the enemies attack each other.  It's the same old poo poo we've seen hundred of times before. See hit point sack. Fry hit point sack with overpowered magic. Repeat.   Despite spouting her mouth off about how she'll never surrender and she's going to die to free Stalwart, Elia immediately surrenders and is thus immune to our firestorms. Amusingly the game seems to implement this as a damage absorbing shield, as the log says in the corner.  This stupid rear end in a top hat makes us go down and find him, so we murder him to progress the plot.   Sirin? Could you use your powers on her? Pleeeeeeeease? I guess not. She is a teenager, after all.  : [Lore 74] You have nothing left to lose, but I can still ensure that Stalwart finds peace under Kyros.: That's more of a promise than these corrupt scavengers deserve by far, but I'll grant you that she talks more than a corpse. : I don't care about your convictions or your country. That makes me more dangerous than you. : Now that was some impressive work. My policy has always been to kill folks and hope their orders were written on their palm, but you've got a knack for getting people talking.AHA! Remember all that crap about how Verse couldn't read? Earlier in the game posted:
Ok, Faunia Farley, you carry on there.  : What do you know about Ashe's daughter, Amelia? : You're looking for an artifact, right?: Aye, and we've been searching for some time. She glances around with evident exhaustion. A fool's errand, perhaps. Suppose I'll never know for sure. : What did you learn about the Regent? This was literally Raetommon's plan, and when Elia calls something stupid you know you messed up.  : What is the Steadfast Insignia? : How did a breach form in the Oldwalls?: She attempts a meager shrug. We've been a little preoccupied with you Northern fuckers to waste our time patrolling the length of the country, so you'll excuse me if I'm shady on the details. : How do I get to the local Spire? : Who leads the Unbroken? : He was looking for Dauntless, the sword of the Unbroken. He thought that could rally us, give us hope. She laughs bitterly. : You have anything else you want to tell me? : You're better to me as a prisoner than a corpse. I recall we got Wrath from Bleden Mark for promising Stalwart Kyros' Peace. Oh well! TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Elia has this unique heavy armor that goes right into storage because the only heavy armor user is Barik, and he's stuck in his own poo poo.  She also has this Disfavored patrol map she got from the Scarlet Chorus. For all their talk of freedom from Kyros and Stalwart-to-Come and their future being led by Mattias, the Unbroken are just being used as pawns by the Chorus to hurt the Disfavored in their little civil war. We know from Bleden Mark and Myothis that Kyros is tacitly encouraging these idiots to fight as they're no longer needed, so she's literally doing what Kyros wants her to do. Elia's certainly not accomplishing anything by resisting, first she pisses her men away, then she surrenders while all her remaining forces die around her, then she crumbles under our vague threat that we don't care about her country because we can apparently somehow make the ruinous wasteland with no food or resources worse. Yes, she's in pain and not thinking straight, but it's kind of hard to feel sorry for her on a meta level because she wastes your time with so much pointless bullshit and on a narrative level because she is a coward who abandons her men while running away and then betrays her "country" and sells out the resistance movement. Thus I'm not sure if the writers actually intended for Cleopatra's vague threat of destroying everything Elia worked for to be a horrible moment where we're reminded that yes, the Fatebinder committed unspeakable atrocities and by all accounts is evil, or whether it's just a commentary that we're sick of Elia's time wasting bullshit. Certainly we don't care about her convictions, because she very clearly doesn't care about them either!  Now, the game lists this quest as optional. We're missing out on a ton by not doing it, and it's on the way to the last Spire, which we could really use. Off we go!
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Mar 12, 2021 10:52
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: I'm gonna kill you Fatebinder!
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Man, the 'no masters' path really just... doesn't give you a reason to do stuff other than 'Bleden Mark said an artifact was here', huh. The game lets you turn onto it basically any time you decide "gently caress it, I'm not completing this the Disfavored/Chorus way, my allegiance is ended" but doing it as early as the start of the game leaves things feeling a bit directionless.
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Mar 12, 2021 13:17
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Yeah, and on top of that it also cuts down a lot of the negotiating and dialogue. Obviously Disfavored/Chorus are all gently caress you, that's the point of the route, but it ends up feeling like you just go around killing everyone in the area, with this one being notable in that aspect.
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Mar 12, 2021 13:46
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I respect the writing on the Rebel path a lot more after seeing this. There are definite rough patches, but it's way better than the Anarchy path.
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Mar 12, 2021 14:08
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It would be a fun twist if Elia was actually a brainwashed AmElia and you just go and off the general's daughter in a stormblasted ravine somewhere. I don't know how that could possibly work narratively but it makes me giggle.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:09
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Servetus posted:I respect the writing on the Rebel path a lot more after seeing this. There are definite rough patches, but it's way better than the Anarchy path. The Rebel path was acyually my first go round in this game (because it's honestly close to what I'd do in the same position), and while I was tempted by the anarchy path at times, I suspected that Obsidian would do it's usual thing in regards to a player loving poo poo up- that is, more chances to gently caress poo poo up and little else. Good to know I was right! Obsidian games tend to be similar to mirrors and sewers in that regard: what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. More thought and consideration in your game choices leads to more thoughtful and considerate rewards or exploration of themes, where as acting like an rear end in a top hat gets you an rear end in a top hat reward... I have found this to be the case in even the weakest Obsidian game, and we all know what that one is, yes? That's right, KOTOR 2! (JK, JK, it's actually The Outer Worlds, but they're both in space, so...)
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Mar 12, 2021 19:16
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resurgam40 posted:The Rebel path was acyually my first go round in this game (because it's honestly close to what I'd do in the same position), and while I was tempted by the anarchy path at times, I suspected that Obsidian would do it's usual thing in regards to a player loving poo poo up- that is, more chances to gently caress poo poo up and little else. Good to know I was right! It's kind of weird because the only people we've betrayed are the Disfavored. The Vendrien Guard never made any kind of agreement with us and our orders were to fight them, the Scarlet Chorus threw a hissy fit and turned on Cleopatra and the Disfavored after forcing her to pick one, and we've kept faith with Mark, Lethian's Crossing, the Forge-Bound, and the Stonestalkers. It's also entirely possible to end up on Anarchy because Ashe ordered a genocide or Nerat demanded torture victims and you just didn't want to do that.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:03
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:It's also entirely possible to end up on Anarchy because Ashe ordered a genocide or Nerat demanded torture victims and you just didn't want to do that. This is how my first game of Tyranny went. I bought the surface impressions of Ashe right up until he told me to cross that line.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:08
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I haven't seen the Disfavored path but I can only assume it's you genociding a lot of people for the dubious honor of having Graven Ashe like you. I bounced off the Rebel path right around the time I couldn't find an option to go recruit the Stonestalkers, which I've now learned is because they're only available if you recruit the Bronze Brotherhood also for some inscrutable reason. The Scarlet Chorus path I'm still convinced is actually the best path you can take.
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Mar 13, 2021 01:06
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FWIW, Elia killing herself when you try to take her prisoner makes perfect sense to me in the specific context of she's primarily dealt with the Disfavored and she had a Disfavored officer repeatedly threaten to take her alive specifically to rape her. Cleo doesn't do that, but I can understand Elia having... expectations and fears and deciding she's not going to make that or torture an option. Neither the Disfavored or the Chorus treat their prisoners well and Elia has zero reason to expect the Fatebinder would be any different... after all, the actions of the Disfavored are clearly condoned by Graven Ashe, who is overseen by Kyros herself.
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Mar 13, 2021 04:32
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The writing here definitely feels like they ran out of time to make the complexity of '4 paths' work completely. I do like the Verse subtext though, you really do get a lot of evidence that Verse lies if it serves her purposes.
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Mar 13, 2021 06:03
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Cleopatra Jones and the Forced Violence You said they're just facists twice here. I really feel like some of the Rebel options should have been ported to the anarchist path or something. even a simple "and do what? You beat the Disfavoured, take back your outpost, and WHAT? Kyros already almost dropped an edict on all of us because the final conquest of the tiers was taking too long, what do you think Kyros is going to do if you start actually winning?" The real shame is that both of those forts could've involved applying pressure to the player - spicing up the otherwise somewhat repetitive combat system. And more games could benefit from having combat different between humans and wild animals (or the bane since Tyranny has no wildlife) Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Mar 13, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 06:18
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I think it came up before, but considering this game's development time and that it came out right after the 2016 election, it's more than just a coincidence that the two major factions you can work with/for are an incompetent yet somehow charismatic fascist with a racist horde that worships him and a multi-faced deceiver who simply sees you as a tool to further their own end and whose organization is rife with corruption and in-fighting, right?
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Mar 13, 2021 06:33
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Stalwart was the point in the game for me where it rely really hit home that while the devs were very knowledgeable in some ways, they knew dick all about any military stuff and never botheres to do ang research either. Every single commander in this game comes off as a total idiot without even the most basic grasp of tactics or strategy.
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Mar 13, 2021 07:27
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Cleopatra Jones and the Weakness of Kyros Welcome back! Last time on Tyranny, Elia sold out her country and then committed suicide by Fatebinder after wasting our time slowly abandoning her men to death.  Fortunately, she gave us the location of the Oldwalls breach, where we can do a bunch of stuff that's only optional on the Anarchy path.  Oh dammit. Might as well hail the gang. We did hear about them in Verse's "gently caress Marry Kill" answer, where she was with Fine rear end before she killed him.   May as well help her fight them.   We don't actually get a fight, as we've apparently forgotten all our magic for some reason.  We can check in with Verse and get on with our life. : She laughs brightly. Brilliant! Always nice to remember your roots... and then slice them to ribbons. Life is cheap in the Chorus, don't sweat it.  Long story short, this guy is standing guard, we tell him we're just here for the artifact, he yells at us for cultural appropriation and attacks.  I'm not going to lie, being totally overpowered is kind of great because it means less time in Tyranny combat.  This sage is also hanging around.  : I was not trying to eavesdrop on your scuffle, but now that I've witnessed it, duty obliges that I record it. He rolls a sheet of parchment into a thick tube in his hands. Come and silence the record if you must, but I warn you, the Sages have long, written memories.: I already know you as the quencher of flames and stamper of embers, though I take it the Burning Library was only one chapter of your legacy. Incidentally, how was the old Citadel? Ah, don't answer that. Unfortunately we don't have any dialog options I like. : No need for concern. I'm only here to kill Unbroken.: Oh... I see. A little too nationalistic for my tastes, but they were decent travel company, at least. He scans the corpses again and sighs. They call Kyros' forces uncompromising, but at times I wonder if it isn't the other way around. : What are Sages doing here with the Unbroken? : Tell me about yourself. : I'm looking for the Steadfast Insignia. Tell me what you know.: Artifacts are a fascinating business, are they not? And Stalwart's decorated military history yielded so much intrigue around them...: The Steadfast Insignia was prominently displayed in every Unbroken battle where Regent Aspison fought. Over the years it became something of a rallying marker, and its presence alone accounted for many notable victories.: Though I take it you didn't need anything as ham-fisted as a Stalwart heirloom to fix matters in the Stone Sea, did you? Kyros' magic is built on such subtle wording that even this old scholar must respect it... from afar. : While we're on the topic, I understand that Lethian's Crossing has a Scourge problem or two. You'll have to keep an eye on that if there's to be any stability in the region, won't you? Best of luck.Oh boy.  : Where is the soldier's body? I'm not going to waste your time by asking about torchkeys, we've seen them too many times before. : What are the next steps?: Once you get the torchkey, you'll be able to venture past the first chamber. He pauses for a moment. Of course, given our aborted efforts, you can understand why I'd be hesitant to re-enter the Oldwalls. My scribe, Javala, didn't survive the trip... poor girl.: He cuts off his speech to eye you with interest. I don't mean to pry, but...: Is that the storied shield of Azure you have there? Let the ravaging Bane hurl themselves against that beauty!: The Magebane will serve you well on the other side of the Breath, though it may not block out the horrors of those unsightly creatures.: I hope that the Silent Archive has granted you the wisdom to navigate the Oldwalls with care. Such places are riddled with traps and pitfalls that can best even the most seasoned adventurer. For some reason I ask him about the message, and he just says his birds are still out and he can't do it. Let's leave. This is going to be a long update. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
I forgot to grab his quest to fetch something from the Oldwalls, but that's all right. We can grab the item and get it to him.  We are going to be picking up a lot of unique weapons this update.  A bunch of Bane show up. We can slaughter Bane trivially now. I forget to screenshot it, but we grab a red "Garn" torchkey too.  We also get this unique staff that we don't care about because you really should never be staff attacking.  Into the dungeon!  So I've mentioned before that Bane represent exposure to ideas outside of the Kyros-controlled education systems.  In Lethian's Crossing we learned that Kyros' laws are incoherent bullshit made for the purpose of control, rather than the guide to morality Tunon presented them as.  In the Bastard's Wound we had to grapple with the idea that maybe the Beastmen actually built the Oldwalls and that Beasts are equal to humans. Maybe. That DLC made absolutely no sense, but I think that's what they were trying to go for.  Here we're looking for an artifact that lets us straight up deny the power of Kyros' Edict of Storms.  This requires coming to terms with another extremely heretical idea.  Kyros is fallible and can be thwarted.   Before, everything we did was in the name of or at behest of Kyros. We claimed Vendrien's Well for ourselves, sure, but we did it on the terms of Kyros' Edict of Execution. Even Tunon seemed to accept this outcome, and we received support from within the Kyrosian hierarchy.  We ended the Edict of Fire by removing forbidden knowledge from a place that non-Kyrosians might be able to get to by following Kyro's instructions. We defeated Raetommon's plot to rebel against Kyros by entering the Oldwalls, and while the laws might not be a good system, ultimately Kyros is still powerful enough not to be challenged. Who else wields the Edict? In whose name do the legions march? Sure, maybe the harvests don't bloom and blight by the will of Kyros, but from our vantage point there's not that much difference between "god" and "tyrant in full control of the state". You don't work directly against Kyros, you fight for Kyros' favor to cast down the other Kyrosians. The Archons can maybe make some demands like promoting Graven Ashe, but they can't just...rebel outright, can they? Look at Cairn! He was a powerful Archon who shook the land in death, and ultimately Kyros just made an example of him. Sure, maybe Sirin nearly killed Kyros, but she didn't and ultimately got slapped in chains for it. Kyros' power is still unchallengeable.  Thus, getting this artifact that can directly defeat the Edict of Storms - even if just for a limited time, or in a limited area - is a massive deal because it shows some small hope of defying Kyros.  Anyway, we need to gather four keystones to unleash the Big Bane again here.  Each of these stones raises the central floor a little. Yup, it's another Oldwalls dungeon. Yawn.  There's a keystone here. You take it, the bridge retracts and all the Bane pop out of the glowing Bane Seals on the wall there. The pile of rubble in the corner has a rock you can give back to the statue. It's not very interesting, so I'll try to speed through this dungeon.  The dungeon is also trap infested.  We've got two goals, find the Spire and grab the artifact. There's also another artifact hidden here that we are going to grab, because why not?  There are three whole maps of this, but at least we don't have to do water puzzles or other garbage.  Cleo levels up again.  I give her this talent. It turns out to be a +2 to each attribute. I'd ask why the designers were so averse to including numbers, but then I remember Pillars of Eternity exploding into numbers that you could mostly ignore.  This is weird, are they recruiting Tiersmen now? It's also evidence against Graven Ashe because he's sending men into the Oldwalls to break the law. Ignore what we're doing.  I think this is used to make an artifact spear?  More torchkeys! You need the blue key to open the blue door!  Or, in this case, to unlock the button that collapses the stairs.  There's a little puzzle where it turns out you need to send a party member through the door while at least one stays to push the button so others can get out. You get the Sage's quest item and this sigil...we can't read because Lantry's not around. We'll be doing an Oldwalls Loot Run in Act 3.    Second keystone down...  Sirin is supposed to be a petulant teenager but she kind of echoes how I feel about this dungeon. Now, in the game's defense, we're only going to four areas in Act 2 because we're on Anarchy. Any other path we'd be done with Act 2 by now.  Fast forward!  Grab the Spire symbol so I don't have to google it.  I cut out a LOT of wandering. You're welcome.  We already have this one, it's the line expression that for some reason I'm not using this playthrough.  None of this stuff is a threat or something that requires a change of tactics. Just do your DPS rotation! I just learned you can queue up commands if you hold shift, so do that and then go make a sandwich or something.  Barik tries to get philosophical on us.   We finally make it over to the Spire chamber and get the second rubbing.  This lets us solve the puzzle and get the last Spire in the game.    : The Ocean Spire in the Blade Grave feels weathered and batter, like a flag that has whipped in the high winds beyond its intended duration. Perhaps in spite of this, the connection formed with Vendrien's Well is strong - almost overwhelmingly so.: I was at the front lines during the devastation of Stalwart. From on high, the realm feels... less significant. : I knew the world was huge, but you never really understand the extent of it until you see it from this high. How far does that ocean reach?: At least we're spared the worst of the grit from up here. War kicks up a lot of dust, if the Blade Grave is any indication.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 The infirmary is our last upgrade.  It sucks! While the other Spires build you artifacts and unique equipment or let you train super hard, this one makes consumables. You can hire a master lore trainer... if you warned the Sages, unlike us. Oh well! Cleopatra keeps gaining a ton of Dodge and Parry ranks because we keep resetting them, and we can flip those directly into Lore. We can hopefully get her to 300 or something stupid for the final boss fights.  We go to the Forge and grab the Staff of Cairn. I give it to Sirin. It has a once per day AoE petrify power that boosts our armor by one, and it increases her Wits by 2 aka 10% more spell damage. I'd give it to Cleo but we are full out of weapon slots.  I queue up this artifact for future forging, why not?  Unfortunately I get trolled by the Library and we get the Focused Rain sigil which...is sold at the Library. Tyranny. Tyranny, no!  Why not?  Back to the dungeon!  Keys and Bane! Thankfully this is the last of the Oldwalls dungeons.  Sirin levels up. I don't think I mentioned this, but her War and Peace capstones are both summons. Her Peace capstone (which we have) summons an image of her that taunts people in an AoE.  Both of the Oldwalls dungeons in the main game have sections that respond to torchkeys from the other dungeon.  That sigil on the wall is the only sigil in this dungeon we don't already have, but it's a good one. You can apply it to any lightning spell to stun. Sadly, it's incompatible with the focused rain sigil (and the other lightning spell we do have stuns without extra sigils) or else I'd be running upstairs to get Lantry.  These go right on Cleo. There is a strictly better artifact version we can research at the Spires, but honestly the Spire research system isn't that great and the game is not long enough to really build up a stack of stuff.  This, uh, exists.  gently caress!  I'm cutting out a ton of crap here!  The trap detection amulet in the trapped chest is pretty funny, I'll give them that.  There's also this Sigil of Passion. It's mechanically the same as Sirin's Sigil of Emotion, so we can't learn it, but I suspect it's the sigil of her predecessor as Archon of Song or something - the legacy of an ancient Archon who possibly predates Kyros.  Just a nifty little touch. Back to the game!  Blah!  Unique item for Eb I will probably forget about.  Masterwork named shield, nice.  The last torchkey! By this point I'd found three of four of the keystones (offscreen) so all we need to do is track down the last one.  The only place it's used is in this room with the three stands. The Bane bust out of the wall if you choose the wrong color and waste your time.  There's a ton of unique loot in this passageway, including the last keystone and...  A unique masterwork artifact bow! We give it to Verse.  The floor rises up to reveal a button we can press to release the Bane.  Remember the first time we fought one of these things, and it was a massive ordeal that required me giving up at the end of an update after a bunch of reloads?  It doesn't last long. We've been getting a lot of evidence all game that Kyros is not as omnipotent as she pretends to be.  It's still trying to queue up Havoc Strike and we've pasted two dots off its health.  This fight took maybe 20 seconds of Cleopatra and Sirin unloading their heavy spells into it.  Sadly the Sage reputation ability we get sucks, while the Wrath one is literally +6 to lore. I feel like that should be reversed. Oh well!  We got the insignia, let's head out to the ruins.  This idiot jumps us outside the Oldwalls. : Who are you, and more importantly, why should I care? : I don't know if you got such a smart mouth in Tunon's Court or from spending too much time away from a respectable legion. From where I'm standing, I'd think you would show more remorse for the pisspoor decisions that led you here.We have single-handedly executed half of Ashe's subcommanders - Radix and the Iron Marshal. What exactly are you going to do?  : [Throw a handful of dirt at his face.]: The Disfavored commander watches as your projectile harmlessly scatters into the wind. You might try that again when we're standing closer together. Here, let me show you. He moves to attack. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Killing these idiots gets us the Disfavored's first Wrath ability! This is also the name of the game's regular battle soundtrack, which is kind of hilarious.  Wow. They brought rare and valuable iron craftsmen who are literally magic and wasted them on ambushing Cleopatra. It's kind of a sign of desperation at this point. At least we can sell all their possessions for respec money.  We have a very good reason for returning to this man. : I have questions for you. : What are you seeking in the Oldwalls?: My research suggests that within these nearby Oldwalls are a set of stones carved with ancient script. For lack of a better term, I call them Stones of Elucidation. His hand darts to his satchel, producing a hand-drawn sketch of an ordinary circle.: I know this sketch doesn't capture the wonder and, frankly, we don't really know what they do. We have found spheres of identical size but differing glyphs in over a dozen disparate regions of the Oldwalls. : What's in it for me?I really should have wiki'd this quest.  : I want a copy of one of your arcane texts. Sweet! Our own custom magic book signed by the author! : I found the Stones of Elucidation.  So, guess what? We already have this sigil from the Burning Library. Nuts. Still, I can't fault the guy. It increases spell range, if you're curious. : [Lore 38] What have the stones taught you? : I'm not a young man, and if I keep getting sent on missions like these, any research I carry will be lost. Take a copy with you. I hope you find it useful.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Anyway, here's where the actually interesting part of this update begins.  Um, I'm sorry?  : Neither of you will remain here long. Yeah, gently caress you too.  It might not surprise you to learn that there are a bunch of trash mobs. We dispose of them.  I see the remedial classes have assembled. Also considering how much the Disfavored love Ashe I'm pretty sure at least one of them would be into that.  : I'm not reporting to Ashe unless we take Sentinel Stand, and that goes for everyone in my unit! We don't see Iron Hearth and we don't see home until our mission is compete! She pumps her fist twice in the air, and her soldiers reflexively mirror the gesture.There's a little problem with this.  Neither one of these idiots has the Steadfast Insignia, and thus they can't get in! Symbolically, the Steadfast Insignia is the political power in Stalwart as it was worn by the First Regent. I guess Rumalan could know we were coming because the flammable gentleman outside the Oldwalls Breach could have sent a bird, and then the Unbroken followed them, but I don't know what their plan was going to be if we didn't show up.  Nothing about this reveal makes any sense either. Janos told us to go to Captain Agathon knowing that we were extremely skilled at killing people and looking for an artifact Agathon would never give up. As a result of Janos' advice the Unbroken lost two entire forts full of people and Elia killed herself. Of course, we're somehow claiming Sentinel Stand with the garrison army of ___ and ___. On every other route you have troops who can hold these locations, be they the Disfavored, Chorus gangs, or your personal Rebel army. If we had the right background we could have taken over the Stonestalker tribe, but I think asking them to uproot from their homeland to hold this castle won't end well. : Sentinel Stand will go to neither of you. I claim it as my seat of power.We don't even need it. We have the Ocean Spire, but here we are.  Now nothing this character does makes any sense. Was this guy just using us to eliminate his rivals for control of the Unbroken? If he hadn't conveniently shown up when we arrived we'd just be stuck wandering the wasteland.  Oh poo poo! An actually halfway competent commander? We gotta kill her! We gotta kill her before she spreads moderate intelligence to the rest of the Disfavored! : Face me now, rather than run like a coward.: Rumalan bristles at the notion, moving toward you before suddenly catching herself. While I would love to bury you in the dust myself, I'll not risk our position for matters of pride. I have Disfavored defending the wall to the northeast, and an advance unit patrolling the southwest...more than enough to take one Fatebinder.The Fatebinder is accompanied by a Scarlet Fury, a Stone Shield commander, and an Archon. You're going to be dead in five minutes. : You're not an opponent worthy of my time if you can't get past them.: She turns to fall back across the bridge.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 We put the bizarre paradox of Janos' betrayal or whatever the hell it is to rest by electrocuting him.  We have to climb down to find the Disfavored squad one.  I am super confused as to why the Bronze Armiger, an Unbroken member is with the Disfavored until I figured out Rumalan had us attack Disfavored units who were actively in combat. I keep wondering how all these eugenics-loving fascists never realize that they meet the qualifications for sterilization they so desperately want to impose on others, and then I reread Eco.  We climb back up Mount Typo to kill the other squad.  They are also locked in combat with the Unbroken and die horribly.  You might be asking how we get across the bridge.  We just bait Rumalan! This isn't as stupid on her part as it appears as she can't actually attack the fort without the Insignia which we have. Instead of preparing the battlefield or anything she just kinda hosed around behind the bridge. She doesn't even try anything clever like trying to trick us into throwing over the insignia. : Face me, Lieutenant. I'm ready for more. It's a miracle this woman wasn't killed in some kind of ambush.   She's even nice enough to gift her unique blade to Barik.  Not sure what this well does, to be honest.  We make it to the windwall. This is the magic of Kyros herself, whom all the Archons fear, who can rain fire from the sky, whose followers call him omnipotent.  Up to this point there's been room for doubt. Sure, we found the item, but everyone says it's a rumor that might work.  It works, and we defy Kyros himself.  The game's prose is dull realism, but the actual achievement here is that our power met Kyros' and triumphed in this instance. This shouldn't be possible!  Oh, we've had hints from Myothis that Kyros isn't in full control of the Edicts, but Myothis never framed the Overlord as someone who could be outright defied. The symbolism is obvious - the people of Stalwart awakening to their power can defy the might of the Overlord.  We'll loan this to Sirin for now, but this is the equivalent of Arthur pulling the sword from the stone and all the lesser kings fighting around him.  Thanks, Barik!  These guys challenge us, but we intimidate them while pointing out that they can leave the fortress for the first time in years.  It probably helps that our carrying the insignia marks us as the rightful heir to Stalwart with - again - such power as to defy Kyros himself. Anyway, due to the character limit I'm breaking the update here. We'll meet the man who burned his country to defy Kyros...next time.
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Mar 13, 2021 10:02
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Does the game not comment on it all when you manage to secure all the spires? That seems kind of weird, aren't they supposed to be pretty central to whatever narrative we have going at this point? Also, I've never gotten very far in this game so I'm just judging by this LP, but are you sure the Player Character isn't assembling some sort of army offscreen or something? After all, when you upgraded the spire a bunch of faceless mooks spawned in from somewhere, so there should be some sort of faction under Cleo, right? You can see the mooks in this picture here. TheGreatEvilKing posted:The infirmary is our last upgrade. Maybe I'm reaching too hard to try to make things make sense, I dunno. At any rate, thanks for all the updates!
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Mar 13, 2021 11:26
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sunken fleet posted:Does the game not comment on it all when you manage to secure all the spires? That seems kind of weird, aren't they supposed to be pretty central to whatever narrative we have going at this point? It's not really clear. When you're with a faction it makes sense that they're coming in as members of that faction (or conquered natives) but on the 'go it alone' path these people basically seem to just pop up because you made the spire go all flashy. You don't need to conquer every Spire to beat the game - in fact usually you only get around to 3-ish, with 4 happening either because you're on the no-masters path, or because the game lets you hop to Lethian's Crossing to pick up Sirin without your faction guiding you there, and so you're allowed to grab the Spire while you're at it. Usually (unless the mechanics have changed) you can't go to a place until your faction associate mentions it as a target.
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Mar 13, 2021 11:54
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Cleopatra Jones and the Derailed Trolley Welcome back! Last time on Tyranny, Cleopatra Jones pit her power against Kyros the Overlord and won. Today we're going to see just how awful the Tiers leadership is.   Considering the hell the Regent put Barik through I can't blame him. : [Diplomat] I've come a long way for an audience with the Regent.: He blinks and takes your measure. My reason compels me to doubt your words, but something in your bearing tells me you speak truth. He sighs. You've wasted your time, outsider. It is up to Kyros to end this Edict, and nothing will move the Regent to negotiate. Herodin is a coward. : That sounds like a challenge to me. If you wipe the grit from your eyes, maybe you'll see that we've come with more than honeyed words at our disposal.: I think the Regent mistakes his place in the matter. He is the one who suspends this war with inaction, and we will be only too happy to strip him of that distinction.The Regents have ruled Stalwart for 500 years. Herodin has hosed up so badly that his own people are fighting the invaders to see who gets to kill him first. : I suggest you turn back the way you came, however it is you got here, and inform your superiors that we will not be budged. He hesitates and prepares to speak further. : He looks over his shoulder and frowns. Step forward and present yourself, then. Keep a respectful tongue and you won't have any trouble. : Herodin! Barik pounds his fist[sic] together hard enough to shake the earth. Come out and face us, coward! You've dodged this reckoning long enough.The screen shakes when he delivers this line. It's a nice touch.  : The Regent blinks. Do I know you? Your face - what little I can make of it - eludes me.: He sniffs and turns his attention to you. Your friend here seems a mite unstable for emissary work. drat, Verse.  : I came for the clear skies, but it seems I was misinformed. Whereas Ashe capitulated and sold out his people, Herodin continued a fruitless fight he could not win that devastated the land and inflicted no real damage on Kyros. This is a hard question! A lot of countries in early World War II struggled with resisting Hitler's military, which at the time just steamrolled its way through Europe. Even the French, a so-called Great Power, fell quickly!  There are, however, wrong answers. : What was that about a Disfavored suicide march?: In the second year of the war, my personal forces captured one of Graven Ashe's elite legions. We divided their numbers for our own protection - some here, others at Duskwatch - with plans of bargaining with Ashe for their lives. Shut the gently caress up Barik. I get it, you hate these guys for what they did to you, but you invaded his country. Hostage trading was an established practice in antiquity, and quite frankly holding all these guys prisoner wasn't the worst idea.  Hmm. I wonder what this could mean? : The rest, as you know, is history. Before the Disfavored could finish their desperate attack, the Edict swept up my people and Ashe's legion like they were made of straw, battering bones and iron into so much dust that now swirls about our heads.: I remember that day too well... if you had but surrendered, then hundreds of Northerners and Southerners alike would have been spared!Barik's not wrong here. There was no way for Herodin and Stalwart to win at that point, and all Herodin has managed to do is prolong the conflict and get more people killed. The Disfavored are brutal occupiers, to be sure, but from what we've seen of Stalwart I'm not sure that it would be worse than turning it into a wasteland without any food where everyone is in a state of constant warfare against Disfavored assholes. At the very least it would buy time for Stalwart to rearm, Herodin might be able to ingratiate himself with Tunon and reign in Ashe that way (remember, if Stalwart surrenders Kyros' Peace is in full effect) while secretly rearming and training troops. Any Disfavored atrocities are going to push people into the resistance, and we've already seen that the Disfavored are absolute garbage at any kind of warfare where they can't form a big line and wait for Kyros to hit the nuke button. Granted, this does run the risk that Ashe fell to, where Herodin is bought off by the power of Kyros, but there's a LOT of bullshit you can pull with knowledge of Kyrosian law and a willingness to pass information to the resistance.  Stalwart is dead. You killed it. The Unbroken are fighting for Stalwart-to-come, not your reign. : What have you gained from this long stalemate, beyond the hatred of your people? Oh, look, a strong leader who values bloodline and won't shut up about how self-sacrificing he is while he hides in the back and lets his people die? It's Graven Ashe, folks!  Much like Ashe betrayed the king who needed him to protect their people, Herodin betrayed his people by leaving them to the mercy of the storms and the Disfavored. Much like Ashe portraying himself as a hero for surrendering like a coward and letting his people get drafted by Nerat or killed fighting wars they have no business in, Herodin sacrificed his people to save his pride. : You could have ended this Edict long ago. God, gently caress you. This is the kind of crap used by nationalists to get teenagers to rush machine guns. : I took no pleasure in watching storms ravage my country, here from the safety of the eye. I have suffered the weight of that decision every day, but I would never second-guess it. : A true leader would have fought to the very end rather than hide here.  When a fifteen year old child is dismantling your argument it might not be very good. : I'm going to end the Edict one way or another. Will you help me or not?: I will not, and you are a fool to think that I would accept such an outrageous proposal, given everything that it represents. The very pride of my station hinges on rejecting your impossible solution.: He raises his voice for all to hear. As Regent of the Great Realm of Stalwart, I eject you from any courtesy or invitation that holds you to these walls, and banish you from my lands!  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Herodin runs off behind the gate like the worthless coward he is and we get jumped by his goons.  Do these guys have families outside the castle? Serious question. The two guys from earlier literally ran at the chance to desert. I assume these are the die-hards Herodin has convinced with his rhetoric.  Cleo levels again, and I realize the Commander's Plate we traded might have been moderately helpful. Oh well! It was a two for one artifact special.  We're able to force the winch from outside because no one bothered to repair the castle! It sounds dumb, but remember, they've been trapped inside for over a year. Where are they getting stone? Presumably all the quarries are in the country they abandoned.  A bunch of boring soldiers attack us. Look, we all now how this ends by now.    Those guys were guarding a unique sword we throw into the pile. At this point we could start arming a personal army with all the crap we looted.   As we reach the right side of the courtyard, we get a cutscene that I fail to screenshot where the Earthshakers blow up the wall with a big boulder. All the Disfavored rush in because they are still trying to rescue Ameila.    This meteor spell is worth its weight in iron.  The castle is also filled with loot chests just lying around for deserving Fatebinders.  These guys try to hold us back. It doesn't go well for them.  Here we can see that Cleopatra and the gang have broken through the Regent's men.  Who killed that guy?  You know, if you'd been this competent at taking fortresses in Act I we might not have kicked the Iron Marshal off a cliff. Dmitris is still a petty, cruel idiot like the rest of the Disfavored. The more we see of them the clearer it becomes that only Barik has anything resembling honor. Here we see him toying with an old man and trying to make him beg for death.  Dammit Verse! You're stealing my job!  Um, Barik, did you not hear what Dmitris just said? You could drop that into the Godfather with Michael Corleone's revelation that "it's always personal". : If you want to see me on my knees, you'll have to prop up my corpse for the delight of your inbred cohorts. But don't speak to me of cowardice and bravery. The Disfavored needed Kyros' arcana to prevail in the end. I'm sure that an army of lice-bitten rats could have succeeded with those odds on their side.drat! As despicable as Herodin is, just this one time he calls it like it is.  : You took a legion hostage, and didn't have the nerve to meet us on the field of battle. Coward! Dmitris advances a step. I will earn Ashe's favor when I bring him your head, and no one in Stalwart will weep for your demise! Wow Herodin really is just dunking on this idiot.  : Who are you again? This would be so much more effective if this guy hadn't just tried to bully Herodin and started whining about how killing Straydus would win Ashe's favor. What a loser.  : You should have done the right thing and ended the Edict yourself, Straydus. This is on you.: I will not stand here and countenance another moment of your judgment! I have acted for the interests of Stalwart, and if I die today, I die a patriot!  It turns into an awkward three-way melee where Team Cleopatra pulls all the aggro as we fire storm all these idiots to death.  I do show off the Cairn staff. That purple ring is its massive AoE petrify that buffs allied armor.  : So this is to be the end of my... my reign. Come, then. I would meet these last moments with dignity. AHAHAHAHAHA! Meet Amelia Ashe, folks! Just wait, it gets better!  Remember, the entire Disfavored suicide march and Barik's torment has been based off the pretense that Amelia needed rescuing from the evil Unbroken torturers who were holding her hostage. : Some of us could use an explanation. : And some of us could use a stiff drink, but you don't see me breaking into your home and slaughtering my way to the decanter, do you?: She shakes her head. Provisions without end in the cellar, but nothing to distill.Oh cry me a river. : Why do I get the impression that more than just the Tiers have rubbed off on this one?: I'm not the Northern warlord I once was. She winces at the very thought. Sitting out the conflict made me see this conquest from a different perspective. Well...yes?  : You were a prisoner. What happened? : The Regent is beaten. The Keep is ours. Will you cooperate?: Never. I know what atrocities you and the rest of Tunon's ilk are capable of visiting upon us. I know what my father does to traitors and deserters.: My father... Her voice catches, and it takes a moment to find her words. I love my father, but it's nothing compared to the love I felt for the father of -: Amelia, please be silent! Straydus looks to her with desperation. It's over. You understand? I'm dying. Save your strength for... more important things.Looks like there's a bit more than Stalwart pride at stake for Herodin.  : I'm sorry, Regent. This has to happen. The game is building up to something here, and Straydus is the mouthpiece. : Before you can take action, you catch Amelia begin to raise her weapon from the corner of your eye.   I kind of wish they'd removed the frost effect from Herodin's model.  : [Say nothing and kill him.]: You take up a fallen sword from the floor and drive it through Straydus Herodin's heart, killing him instantly. Have you figured it out yet? : What... Barik shakes his head. Kyros' storms are only supposed to rage while the blood of the Regents lives on. He scans the room with a suspicious eye. Did we miss something?: From across the hall, you hear a faint cry. A baby's cry, and realization dawns on you. Let me get in some quick looting first.  Guess it's broken now.  Yeah, I'm kind of putting off the trolley problem here.  It makes sense for this game - as we discussed with the Cold Equations, the usual trolley problem moral dilemma is the result of some awful system, and here we have Kyros.  It's a nasty trap for Cleopatra - do you end the Edict and save the land, or do you kill a child and become tainted as a baby killer?  It's the kind of Machiavellian crap beloved of these kinds of rulers. Kyros is probably planning to dispose of us when we're no longer useful, and wouldn't you know it, we killed an Archon's grandchild.  1984 posted:'If you are a man, Winston, you are the last man. Your kind is extinct; we are the inheritors. Do you understand that you are ALONE? You are outside history, you are non-existent.' His manner changed and he said more harshly: 'And you consider yourself morally superior to us, with our lies and our cruelty?'  : Stay away from my daughter! You will not have her. : Your daughter is the Regent heir? The United States Constitution posted:The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood : How is this possible? Not a good time!  You'll notice the language she uses to describe Stalwart is very similar to the Disfavored's "pride of the North" speech.  : Did you know this would prolong the Edict?: We suspected that the bloodline would implicate my baby in Kyros' eyes, but I knew nothing for certain until this moment. She shakes her head. Don't ask me to interpret the Overlord's heartless design.: I have no love for this Edict, if that's what you're asking. It's torn a noble realm to pieces, fractured the pillar of their culture, and ruined countless lives. We're going to have to chat about this.  : Calm yourself, Amelia. There must be another way.: Amelia still has her guard up, unwilling to move from the doorway.Unfortunately, the game is going into trolley land, so I need you all to vote on whether to kill this baby to end the Ed-  AHAHAHA! It's a perfect rebuttal to all of these stupid trolley problem games, and it's what the game has been building up to this whole time. We've learned that the laws do not work as a means of morality, and that following them will screw us over. Now we're learning once again that if we stick to the options given by Kyros we will destroy ourselves. Either we destroy a country, or we commit an act of unspeakable evil. So we go off the rails. : [Lore 85] Abdicate your line. As Regent-mother, you have the authority. You must merely say the words.Kyros had a pretty good fork going. Either the country - and the disloyal Disfavored - were going to be destroyed by storms, or someone was going to murder this entire family. The storms would eventually end after the castle denizens starved to death (at the latest) or fell to infighting, there would be no power centers left as the Unbroken, Disfavored, and Scarlet Chorus destroyed each other, and any meddling Fatebinders breaking Edicts would either be unable to morally bring themselves to do this or hauled before Tunon for killing an Archon's granddaughter. So we blow up the tracks. gently caress trolleys! Incidentally, Mattias the Unbroken leader will totally consider murdering that baby. That second option isn't a joke, either, by the way. There's two ways to do it - you can read the book we found on Stalwart royalty in the Vellum Citadel, or go ask Calio for help. And lastly, yes, you can murder the kid.   : I, Amelia, formally abdicate my daughter's claim to the Regency of Stalwart - dissolving all ties, compacts, vassals, and holdings. We forfeit all protections and advantages granted to us by the ancient bloodline. She pauses. Was that enough?: Fool - you ask as if this has ever happened before. The only thing I can guarantee is what happens next if this doesn't work.I don't think Verse is evil enough to kill that baby. She rescued that lady from Krokus the rapist, there's no way she's going through with this.    By yeeting that trolley right into the trashcan we get even more power for our maxed power meter. Oh well!   Hmm... we have Fire, Stone, and Storms. I'm sure none of that will be useful. : Thank goodness it worked! You spared my daughter... and here I had come to expect nothing but cruelty from the servants of Kyros. Amelia looks to the crib. Now we have a chance at what might never have been. A life outside of these walls.: I was here when these storms began. It brings me pride to feel them end. His chest swells, and some of the ingrained rust and grit flake away from his pauldrons, their absence leaving marks that remind you of epaulets.: I've always taken pride in breaking things - skulls, shields, helms, the occasional heart - but you just broke the Edict of Storms. I'd say you're ahead of me by a few points.: How nice to see the Overlord's arcane tantrum silenced at last. It will take an Edict to dig the grit from under my crown. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
So, quite a bit going on. We've got Herodin, the secret love child of Stalwart and the Disfavored, the revelation that Herodin's holding out to protect the baby - oh, and the revelation that Barik and the rest of the Disfavored dead in the Blade Grave died for nothing. Let's go through those. Straydus Herodin comes off as a proud man willing to sacrifice his people for nothing except his own pride. He sells it pretty well in the meeting at the gate - he's going to let the Edict ravage the land, and it's a big twist when it turns out that he's actually just trying to protect his daughter-in-law and his grandchild. I think the writers had the idea that they were going to railroad you into killing Herodin to end the Edict and then spring the big twist that actually Herodin mandated all these sacrifices to protect an innocent baby and he didn't tell you about it because you're a Fatebinder who's committed unspeakable atrocities. The problem is that the game then turns around and introduces the idea that the Regents can just abdicate and that satisfies the conditions of Kyros. Even if Straydus couldn't abdicate the entire line, he presumably can abdicate himself and then ask Amelia to do what she just did for us. It does leave the realm without leadership at the mercy of the Disfavored but that's literally what we just saw from the Unbroken. The writers try to give him a noble death in an attempt to undo his earlier characterization as a prideful, spiteful idiot who sacrifices the people of Stalwart to keep his position, but he's still a prideful idiot who sacrifices his people to his refusal to abdicate. I'm not sure what to make of the idea that it never comes up - it seems plausible to me that regents never abdicate based on a bit of flavor text. Loot I omitted last update posted:Looks like you had a lot of backstabbing for council seats, we know the old First Regent was killed when he went into the Oldwalls looking for power (we got the Insignia off his corpse even) so it is entirely plausible to me that Straydus the Elder and Amelia (who learned the culture from Straydus) are just not culturally primed to resort to abdication until the Fatebinder brings it up as a legal loophole. Unfortunately, you don't have the ability to run it by Straydus outside the castle (and not one of the soldiers thinks to mention that "Straydus is fighting for the kid"). It appears you had to be part of the right bloodline to have a seat on the Regent's Council at all, and the only reason Straydus is in charge is that he's the last adult Regent. Symbolically, Cleopatra is first regent. She went into the Oldwalls to recover the Insignia, and while Straydus just kinda sat in his castle staring at the storm she used the power of Stalwart's regents to overcome it. Amelia even abdicated all the privileges of the line, so that's Cleopatra's pin now! This leads me to my next point, the dramatic irony of the whole thing. I've been pointing out that the Disfavored and the Unbroken are extremely similar in outlook, to the point where Amelia uses "the pride of the realm" to describe the people of Stalwart - which is similar to Barik's "pride of the North". She's absolutely right that Kyros led the Disfavored into shame and cruelty, and she's correct that her child doesn't deserve to die, but she's absolutely wrong about everything else. It's telling that her second line is complaining about not having booze while the cellar is well-stocked with food in a land where the people are literally being starved for her sake. She claims that she and her baby can help rebuild Stalwart, but she's a foreign invader - not just any Disfavored, but the daughter of Graven Ashe - and her child represents the regent bloodline that the people of Stalwart absolutely despise. Straydus Herodin may have been a good patriarch, but he was a terrible politician and an inept leader. It's not even clear anyone knows about Amelia's liaison with Straydus the Younger - but it makes perfect thematic sense, because these are very similar societies. Graven Ashe is short on troops and fighting a civil war, and Amelia handed him this alliance on a platter! Remember, this happened before the Edict of Storms was cast! If Straydus and Ashe had somehow been able to negotiate a peace, they could have formed an alliance based on this, come up with some fiction to keep an alliance together, and it would have solved all of Ashe's problems that he's having right now. Even Hitler could bend his own stupid race rules for the Japanese. Ashe is supposed to be a military genius, yet he doesn't realize Sun Tzu's old maxim that the greatest victory requires no battle. Instead we get an idiotic suicide march to rescue Amelia and the elite legion - that Straydus is explicitly holding to get Ashe to come to the negotiating table - that ends up killing the entire elite legion except that one guy in Duskwatch fort and Amelia herself. Barik's torment - that he continues to endure every day - isn't because of Kyros' grand plan or in service to some noble goal, it's because Graven Ashe is an incompetent idiot who ruins everything he touches. He's currently got much of his legion tied down fighting a battle he doesn't need to fight, and he can't replace any losses because he's too stupid and racist to do it. I wonder what Amelia has to say about this?   : Tell me of the final days of the Stalwart campaign.: They took my unit in a night ambush - killed our lookout and overwhelmed the rest of us before we could stage an organized counterattack. When they took me prisoner, I was the picture of disobedience the entire time, and paid back much of the Northern blood they had spilled. The irony is that all of those bad things are concentrated in the Scarlet Chorus, which was brought from the North. : You were lucky. Some of us actually come from the Tiers, and have been around long enough to know better. So yes, this confirms that Amelia did not want to be rescued! She got to become a princess. : Shortly after, I heard an ironclad force assemble outside of the fortress. Had I a voice in the legion, I would have told them to pull back. I was being treated with dignity, and we suspected that Kyros' Edict would come in short order... not that any of my father's simpletons would have listened.  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
I cannot repeat this enough. Amelia could have handed Stalwart over to Graven Ashe on a platter if they'd played the political situation right - leave the country nominally independent under Kyros (they didn't lose a war), play up how the military genius Ashe gave his daughter out of respect for the Stalwart customs, maybe give Stalwart some territory taken from Azure or something. Stalwart gets a powerful advocate in the Kyrosian regime, the Stalwartians get left alone (or maybe some Disfavored marry in, who knows), and if Ashe gets into the war with Nerat he can bring Stalwart into it because by killing Ashe's son Nerat also attacked the Regent family. Stalwart is set up so the entire citizenry can be mobilized into the Unbroken, who are capable fighters that even the racist Disfavored respect. Just make up some poo poo about them being "honorary Northmen" or go back to the histories where they emigrated from the North! This is not hard to do! Ashe is just dumb. Next time: We finally break out the power bar.
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Mar 13, 2021 13:27
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: I feel like somewhere, someone said something I deeply agree with!
: BAWWWWWW!
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Personally, I think it makes sense no one thought of the whole "abdication" thing to resolve the Edict, beyond the whole pride thing. On one hand, the knowledge Regents can abdicate is presented as this extremely rare thing: the three ways of knowing it can be done is either passing the highest Lore check in the game (I think?), finding the info on a note in the biggest library of the land (which has been on fire for a while) or asking the highest ranked Fatebinder (who is probably disinclined to begin with, and is also part of Kyros' troops). On the other hand, it's pretty clear people have seen Edicts as these absolute proofs of Kyros' power: "Our storm rage until the last blade be broken, or the line of Regent falls". The last line doesn't really imply anything other than death, and it's clear the Overlord really wants to make sure no one thinks loopsholes like that. All in all, it's still a really satisfying option. Of course Lore is going to be the god stat in a game about a tyranical regime, since it's their greatest weakness: people knowing better.
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Mar 13, 2021 14:11
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more than that, amelia is abdicating on behalf of her daughter - the legality of the issue isn't trivial, you need to find an obscure precedent to make it convincing it's a legitimately good bit of writing in what is otherwise a relatively weak area of the game
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Mar 13, 2021 15:39
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