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Greader posted:Anyhow, I wonder what the cheese strat for Binah is gonna be, I have been trying to think what one could do beyond just dealing with all the mechanics legit but I must be missing something since I got no clue what else one could really try, especially with her apparently being immune to abnormalities. Or at least breaching ones, who knows if any of the ones we got in the facility can do something despite that. Same to be honest Trying to ignore her mechanics and just smash her down seems impossible when you’re dealing with 90% resists the whole way through + HP regen + justice stat penalties She’s immune to dragon and doesn’t have any minions to hit with dragon like Apoc Bird’s eggs or WN’s apostles She’s immune to abnormality damage entirely, so you can’t just have someone hide in the shelter or wait for WN to breach on his own to solve the problem I guess the weak link might be deliberately just working on everything at once repeatedly to flood the facility in ordeals until you reach midnight? Green Midnight apparently slaughters WN so that might do the trick, and God Delusion is on par with Apoc and WN in terms of being a threat so it might be able to deal with the Arbiter given enough time Maybe someone in full Paradise Lost gear can just very very very slowly grind her down?
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Mar 12, 2021 18:23
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Binah moves around too much for Green Midnight to really work. It's so brutal on WhiteNight because if you maneuver Him into the right department then He'll just stand right above the laser and tank the whole thing. You could maybe use Violet Midnight and then hide in the Shelter for a few hours, but at that point it would probably be easier to fight her the normal way.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:44
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Arcvasti posted:Binah moves around too much for Green Midnight to really work. It's so brutal on WhiteNight because if you maneuver Him into the right department then He'll just stand right above the laser and tank the whole thing. You could maybe use Violet Midnight and then hide in the Shelter for a few hours, but at that point it would probably be easier to fight her the normal way. Ordeals are technically Abnormalities, so it is probably would not work. All Amber, Crimson, Indigo and most Green won't. Violets and Green Mignight are using special attacks, and it is possible that some oversight will allow it to damage Binah, but is is unlikely.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:57
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Better Call Paul, he might have answered this conundrum in one of his episodes. Or maybe TQ will beat Binah fair and square without resorting to cheese strats. Rogue AI Goddess fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 19:16
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Is there a lore connection for Binah's immunity to abnormalities since she knows them all? Do abnormalities attempt to attack her?
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Mar 12, 2021 19:25
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Obviosuly it's gonna be one of our usually not so worth it Tool Abnormalities that will save us! ...I mean, given that breaching Abnormalities won't seem to work it's either that or exploiting the spaggethi code again.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:26
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WarpedLichen posted:Is there a lore connection for Binah's immunity to abnormalities since she knows them all? Do abnormalities attempt to attack her? I think it's more thematical due to the battle between her and Gebera. Binah used them to kill Gebera, so of course Gebera is vulnerable to them, and Binah isn't. Lore-wise maybe because she's the one drawing them up from the well yeah.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:40
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WarpedLichen posted:Is there a lore connection for Binah's immunity to abnormalities since she knows them all? Do abnormalities attempt to attack her?
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Mar 12, 2021 19:54
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Most of these abnormalities have been stuck with Binah for years upon years, they just know not to gently caress around with her by now.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:14
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Then why wouldn't WN make the attempt?
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Mar 12, 2021 20:20
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Mar 12, 2021 21:04
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Mar 13, 2021 02:18
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Mar 13, 2021 03:54
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Ok so next attempt X is going to be in WN's containment chamber while WhiteNight tries to play manager and stay as far away from Binah as possible, is that where this is going
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Mar 13, 2021 04:12
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the Orb of Zot posted:Ok so next attempt X is going to be in WN's containment chamber while WhiteNight tries to play manager and stay as far away from Binah as possible, is that where this is going A: ...did you just accidentally execute Bishop when aiming for that clerk? WN: I am Life and Death, Darkness and Light. A: You do know you can pause, right. That makes aiming the bullets so much easier. WN: I do not trust Time. I will guide Myself. A: ...Suuure
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Mar 13, 2021 07:00
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Cowouldn't help nowoticing yowour bucket-wucket fwom acwoss the faciwity
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Mar 13, 2021 07:17
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Binwuah
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Mar 13, 2021 08:46
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Dareon posted:
  
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Mar 13, 2021 09:54
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Dareon posted:
I hate it. Excellent work.
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Mar 13, 2021 12:12
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Day 44: Gameplay Again Music: neutral 3     So that's Binah… She's a troublesome opponent. But you have a plan, right? Like, "when she attacks, you need to not be there!" One of her attacks goes across the entire facility, so that's… not a great plan. I have a theory, but it's going to require some tight timing. In that case, do the thing and see if it works, and if not you know for next time. I'm sure nobody really minds dying if they don't remember it. Heck, I do remember it and I'm pretty sure it feels kind of nice now. Alright, let's give it a try and see if it works the first time.Retry count: 16 It didn't. We'll get into that later.   Music: Second Trumpet  Last time we covered all of Binah's phase dialogue, so I won't be copying it again here.  You've already returned... I'm not that easy to keep down anymore. I see… Then I shall greet you in the appropriate manner. Hello to you, too.Last time I showed off what Binah can do in broad terms, to give a general idea how the feel of the fight works. This time, we're going to keep her from even getting to play the game. So, let's take a look at Binah.  In Phase 1, Binah only has one attack that can hit the entire facility-her initial one, which comes out once a minute at most. While Pillar and Fairy are both dangerous, her AI will never use them unless she's in the same room as an employee. This gives us some time before we need to worry about them. Much like with WhiteNight, there are three broad strategies for how to deal with Binah: -Engage with her mechanics as intended. We tried that last time, and I proved very bad at it. Still, Binah is completely defeatable if fought properly. My failed run involved me trying to salvage it by doing it the "right" way, and would have succeeded if not for D.A.D. dying right at the end. -Build a facility to be as safe as possible, so that no matter what Binah does she doesn't cause too much trouble. This would mean no Clerk's Rights Abnormalities, and nothing that is complicated to handle. Doing this can actually help with both Binah and Hokma's suppressions, but it requires building our facility from scratch to this end. Since we're not going back to day 1, this isn't an option. That leaves us with: -Introduce something to the mix which somehow disrupts the intended flow of the fight.   Step 1: We slow bullet Binah. It's important that we keep her in Extraction. Delaying me will not stop the inevitable tide of reality from crushing your aspirations. Huh. I expected another story. I see no reason to bother. This time, you came with a plan. I will see your full might, and I will crush it. Also she only knows one story. Now poems… This is not the time for poetry, Mizu. Step 2 is to deal with her initial attack. We do this by spending our bullets on clearing Clerks standing on top of the bubbles. I should really only need two bullets to accomplish my plan with Binah, so this gives us 20 shots to play with for Clerk removal. Healing our Agents won't be necessary if everything goes to plan.  So you intend to keep the Bird and Mountain asleep? Big Bird getting out would be too much of a problem to handle on top of everything else. I eat through most of our ammo supply to do it. With one shot having Binah's name on it, this gives us six left after I restart time.  The rest of the setup is simple. I set Agents to work, and order them to stand in separate hallways and elevators so that only one Agent will be in any given place. This will cut down on the possible damage from her next resonate, and keep us from losing anyone.  When we unpause and the spikes strike, Big Bird's QC stays the same. We lost fewer than 5 Clerks, which is perfect.  Planning such bold actions even now… do you think I haven't caught on to your idea? Whether you've caught on or not doesn't matter, the question is if you can stop it.After unpausing, I count to nine and pause again. The reason for this is simple:  Slow bullets last for 10 seconds, and I want to be sure. You think yourself my equal… interesting. Don't you have a nap you should be taking? ... ...Looks like she does! I thought we weren't allowed to sleep on the job, though. You're not. Let me show you why.This is the moment we've been waiting for. Once Binah is asleep, we move forward with the main thrust of our plan.  Myo. Something the matter, Manager? One of my employees is causing problems. I need you to deal with her. Can do.  I told you, she's my employee. Good enough for me. Time to graze!Binah is countered very effectively by the Rabbit Team. Their lockdown prevents her from leaving Extraction, and since Extraction is the department being suppressed it's immune to her walking meltdowns-this lets us ignore that part of the fight entirely. Moreover, since Binah's defenses are the same for each damage type the Rabbits can pile it onto her en masse. The Slow bullets were used in order to make sure she didn't leave Extraction before she was asleep. This is because Binah's first attack doesn't have a cooldown, which means she can start a Fairy attack if we call the Rabbit Team immediately. Since her stun phase doesn't interrupt her mid-attack, this means that she'd have a 50-50 chance to kill a large chunk of the team before she's stunned.  Binah's stun phase lasts for 30 seconds, and after it's over all of her cooldowns reset. This means the rabbits will have ~50-55 seconds to wail on her before she's done. This seems super unfair, manager! She said she didn't care about methods, so I'm taking her at her word. We'll never pull one over on the Head if we don't play unfair some of the time. Oooh~! Okie-dokie, boss! What's all this about pulling one over on the Head? Wish I could tell you. Apparently I'm part of some big plan that'll do it somehow? Binah there thinks so, anyways. And you think it's a good job to just say as much to someone working at another Wing? Well, you're losing your memory after this, so… ...Heh. Guess you're right. Long as there's a battlefield it's not like I care much anyways. The glut of works means that Parasite Tree is assured to try and draw someone in, and since it's a Clerk I just get rid of them. Five bullets left. As for WhiteNight, I'm following the same strategy that I did with Hokma: Every time work with him ends I immediately have the same person work with him. Today that person is Talow.  I wake up to see you hiding behind another Wing? I suppose such a tactic is to be expected from you, Manager. My memory may be fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure you do the same thing. What between the Claws you worked with back then, and the L-corp Abnormalities you try to use now. Ooh, Claws? Miss Binah knows about Claws? I'm quite familiar with them, though not as much as I used to be. Introduce me! I've always wanted to meet one! Perhaps another time. I've none I can call in this place.As I mentioned before, the Rabbits trap her in Extraction. Binah tries to leave for the elevator…  Only to be warped back to the start of her corridor. These spatial locks are quite the problem… Why thank you. With the Rabbits keeping the pressure on Binah, I aim for some double kills on our Clerks. Music: Jukai  You seem to be getting ahead of yourself, Manager. Can you afford to take your eyes off of me? I really don't have a choice, do I? It could be said that you always have choices, Manager. Your ability to always make the wrong one is what has led us here. Binah starts Phase 2 with another Resonate, but now that our Agents are spread out none of them are in any actual danger from it. She also adds on her Waves.  I mentioned earlier that Red defense was the most important one in the early game and Black took that spot for the late game, and this fight is pretty much entirely why. I focused our equipment today on gear that resisted Black damage, so these attacks aren't a meaningful threat.  I burn one bullet on removing a Clerk who was going to get spiked, and set everyone to work on handling the 18 meltdowns across the facility. Meanwhile, our foresight pays off.  If we're unlucky, we could have to deal with Woodsman melting down 2+ times over the course of this fight, and we have no choice but to work them. Dimi was created expressly to handle this problem. After today, she's allowed to have Temperance. You haven't thought about what happens after this, have you? I have not, no. I was expecting some kind of sophistry. So you admit to having no plan? I don't know what's going to happen. When it does, I'll deal with it then. You won't be able to accomplish anything on your own. Well… I certainly can't argue with that. I don't think I count as 'alone' anymore, though. Goodnight, Binah. ... Manager, that was super inspirational!! Please stop hugging me.The phase change triggers an attack, which resets Binah's attack cooldown timer. Since our Agents are so spread out, we can work all of the Abnormalities within 20 seconds. This knocks Binah out, so the Rabbits can keep up their attack.  Worth every penny, wouldn't you say? I'd say you're worth a lot more than the nothing we're paying you. Huh? I called you before we'd collected any energy. And 25% of nothing is… Bupkuss! Yes. Very good, Mizu. This whole day's just been corner cases with that drat contract of ours, hasn't it? Seems that way. I use our last bullet on taking out this hypnotized Clerk. We should be clear on Parasite Tree, now. You are quite skilled after all, Manager. To have pushed me so far, so quickly. I just figured out how to use the right tool for the right job. How... nostalgic. It appears you've left me little choice. Rather than simply crush you with those creatures called Abnormalities, it seems I will have to attack your crutch. I can walk just fine.Before Phase 3 happens, I pull the camera all the way out and take a deep breath. What we've seen so far is the easy part. Music: Haunted Streets  That remains to be seen. Try to stand on your own two feet.Phase 3 uses the same on-screen quotes as Phase 2. The only difference comes when we try to pause.  Not this poo poo again. You seem off-balance. Good. Mrgrgr… Rabbit team! Don't let up! Like we ever would! In Phase 3, Binah disables pausing entirely and introduces a new trick into the mix. We'll get to that in a moment.  As with the other two phases, Binah begins this one with another wave through the facility. The spikes fail to kill anyone once again.  This time, we get her final type of special meltdowns: The Meltdown of Pillars. She spawns 8 of them across the facility, though only 7 are visible in this shot. These meltdowns apply a -20% success penalty, and have a base 45 second timer. It's vital that we handle them, because if we don't Binah will be able to launch her attack. She's also invincible until the attack resolves, so we can't beat her down before it fires.  She summons these eight pillars around herself one at a time, and when the meltdown timers have ended she fires them all off. They deal damage according to the glow around them, and will trigger more meltdowns just like her normal pillars do. Working all of the meltdowns will clear the pillars out and stop them from firing. However, Scarecrow wound up escaping instead. This breaks things so that we just have a group of pillars hanging there in midair for the rest of the fight. They're harmless, though, so there's nothing to worry about. You really handled them all at once? I had a lot of practice dealing with meltdowns when I couldn't pause. You can thank Hokma for that. Well, as they say. Once is a fluke. Twice is a pattern. We'll see which you have.A few steps later, she fires off another wave. This one comes with spikes as well, so it's important to keep Agents spread out throughout this phase-we don't have time to drag them around to dodge anymore.  I set our Agents to work as quickly as possible, while Binah summons the pillars into existence. Even if your plan succeeds, it will be meaningless in the end. There's no way of knowing that for sure. At the very least, something will change. The Head will endure. You're not the first upstart to try and force change, and you won't be the last. All you'll do is cause more suffering. If that's the cost of breaking mankind out of this death spiral, then it's worth it. Such idealism. I take it you inherited it from that woman. Maybe. I don't really know. Since she didn't set up her usual meltdowns, Binah's defenses remain at 0.8 through this phase. After her second Pillars, her attack cooldowns return to normal, so there's at least 20 seconds before she can attack the Rabbits again. However, all the Rabbits are pooled on the far right side of the room, and when Binah reaches the end of the Rabbit corridor…  She's warped right back to the start. Binah only attacks if she recognizes an employee near her, and while the Rabbits count for her AI, they're too far away for her to register them now. I have underestimated you. To think it would be possible to grow so much in such an ephemeral amount of time. Our manager this time around's really awesome, Miss Binah! Yes. So it seems. I thought you a puppet, enacting the will of another. But there is more to you, it seems. At this point, bringing all this to a close is what I want more than anything else. And that desire is what let you stop even me. That desire, and your neighborhood R-corp defense contract. Yeah, you did good. Then I suppose at last you have reached the starting line. Where you shall proceed from here, who can say? I'm not sure I follow. Even in the end, you cannot seem to grasp anything without it being spelled out for you... Very well. In the end, she goes down before a single Rabbit gets killed. You've proven yourself. I shall witness you with my eyes. Good job, Manager! You did the thing! ...Do I get to find out why we needed to do it? Can you keep it to yourself? Probably not! Then no. Aww… I thought we established it wasn't an Arbiter. We did, but nobody ever said that'd apply to after-hours banter. The guys are gonna' freak over this story. Weren't you wiping your memory the second you left? … … ... Son of a bi-!! And that's Binah. She's a worthy challenge just before we hit the endgame, and while she's punishing she also doesn't waste your time. After Hokma, I can appreciate that in a boss. ...Soo… we did it. Binah's suppressed. What's that mean, exactly? In her case, I have no idea. She didn't really get any more unstable, she was just… always like that. Then I hope she stays like that! It really feels like she gets me, and I kind of like the tea and the cuties. It's time for you to go home, Mizu. The… the cuties. Might miss you if you're gone for too long. ...Ohmigosh, you're right. You're right! They may have forgotten me! Hold on, cuties! I'm coming! ...That girl is terrifying. That does seem to be the usual sentiment towards Binah, A. Still, you have done it. Heh-I did, didn't I?Music: neutral 4  Any objections before I fall asleep for a week? You are not currently approved for time off, Manager. Right. I'll make it one night, then. If you can use TT2 to stretch that a bit, I'd appreciate it. This workday was much shorter than normal. You should not be this fatigued. I know it seems that way, but every minute of it felt like ten. I don't expect you to get it. ...Of course, A. Good night. Yeah. Night.Next time, on Lobotomy Corporation: We hit 90%. Bonus VIDEO: Binah Core Suppression TeeQueue fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jul 9, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 13:13
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You can't let them have their memories back, just this once? Think of the free beer the rabbit team will get when they tell the story 
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Mar 13, 2021 14:04
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TeeQueue posted:Retry count: 16 No... not my bragging rights  But yes, there's the famous Binah cheese. Instead of dealing with her properly, just lock her in with the Rabbits immediately and focus on clearing the meltdowns with your actual staff.
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Mar 13, 2021 14:42
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TeeQueue posted:This time, we get her final type of special meltdowns: The Meltdown of Pillars. She spawned 8 of them across the facility, though only 7 are visible in this shot. An interesting quote spoken by Rabbits: Myo posted:Guess she isn’t a real Arbiter after all. But she does seem to be using some Singularities? And Binah, while summoning Pillar: Binah posted:Condensing the Key Seems like her attacks (except maybe global one) are in fact Singularities. Slaan posted:You can't let them have their memories back, just this once? Think of the free beer the rabbit team will get when they tell the story
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Mar 13, 2021 15:03
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Wow, that looks way easier than trying to scramble and kill her yourself. Also, I'd forgotten how much I like the music that kicks in for Binah's later phases. It feels really fitting for the character and as the last Sephirot to melt down.
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Mar 13, 2021 15:07
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Praise incredibly poorly worded mercenary contracts! In between the “we don’t deal with Arbiters” clause being easy to avoid by just saying “it’s not an Arbiter”, the payment possibly consisting of literally nothing, and the mind wipe after leaving meaning you can brag about it to their faces with zero consequences and make it so even if they do catch on to what you’re using them on it won’t matter, this contract is hilariously weighted against R-Corp to the point I wonder how it even got signed originally. Also of course Binah disables pausing eventually, because she wasn’t terrifying enough in her first two phases. And just to check, that Fairy attack highroll is 300 pale damage, aka “kill literally anyone not wearing Paradise Lost on the spot and do over half the HP bar of people wearing it”, and even the other three damage types would be close to instant kills outside of incredibly EGO gifted agents assuming 50% resist for that damage type on ALEPH armor. Is the only reason this was at all possible that Binah was testing us rather than actively making a serious attempt to destroy us all again?
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Mar 13, 2021 15:13
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I suspect the reason the R-Corp Contract is so lop-sided is because they’re contracted to the entirety of L-Corp, not just the main building (which is the setting for this game). Presumably at the branch buildings it’s far less easily abused. So they can accept L-Corp being super hyper secretive of their main building including the mindwipe for the Rabbit Team because the branch buildings don’t have all those requirements and pay out plenty because they’re not managed by an (A)sshole.
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Mar 13, 2021 15:18
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the Orb of Zot posted:Is the only reason this was at all possible that Binah was testing us rather than actively making a serious attempt to destroy us all again? the Orb of Zot posted:In between the “we don’t deal with Arbiters” clause being easy to avoid by just saying “it’s not an Arbiter”, the payment possibly consisting of literally nothing, and the mind wipe after leaving meaning you can brag about it to their faces with zero consequences and make it so even if they do catch on to what you’re using them on it won’t matter, this contract is hilariously weighted against R-Corp to the point I wonder how it even got signed originally. MiiNiPaa fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Mar 13, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 15:19
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MiiNiPaa posted:She spawns 7 if you have less than 40 Abnormalities... I mentioned earlier that Binah seems to be better integrated in the game and is reusing basic meltdown logic, which only allows you to spawn a Meltdown on a percentage of Abnormalities. Another fun fact: nothing prevents special Meltdown from landing on Meltdown-immune abnormalities, resulting in less Meltdowns total. I thought that was it after what you mentioned last time, since the wiki said 7 and I counted 8. She doesn’t seem to spawn them on abnormalities we’re in the middle of working either, though I have seen them on abnormalities in work cool down (like scarecrow) the Orb of Zot posted:And just to check, that Fairy attack highroll is 300 pale damage, aka “kill literally anyone not wearing Paradise Lost on the spot This is not entirely accurate. A 15 HP agent with the level 2 Welfare bonus in a 1.5x WAW suit would be fine, because 300*1.5*.94=423 pale damage, or 63.45 HP. Slap a pale bullet on them and they’re fine. Surviving the spikes is another matter, of course, but low HP counts are hilarious for tanking pale attacks with shield bullets.
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Mar 13, 2021 15:22
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Personally I was always curious what Key does, since Fairy is the Singularity that opens things.
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Mar 13, 2021 15:36
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Theantero posted:Personally I was always curious what Key does, since Fairy is the Singularity that opens things. Watson actually mentioned this on discord a few days ago-now that they’ve done some more Distortion Detective and Library of Ruina for context, they probably would have named the singularity Key Fairy or similar. The fairies ARE they keys, that’s all one Singularity. Watson at the CKC disco posted:Oh yeah TQ minor note in advance, the one attack “Fairy and Key” is a mini mistake since we didn’t have context at the time. Fairy and Key are the same thing, there shouldn’t be an “and” there I was going to cover that when I showed the quote in a bonus update, but no reason I can’t say it here as well.
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Mar 13, 2021 15:45
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I see. The more you know~
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Mar 13, 2021 15:52
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In regards to loopholeing the Rabbit Contract, I imagine part of it is how rare it is for a facility to literally start the day with an enemy powerful enough to require the Rabbit Team before any energy extraction is done. Normally you have to do a bit of work before anything breaches or an Ordeal shows up, so the RT gets at least some energy. As for An Arbiter and why it isn’t a breach of contract to attack her, as X pointed out he called them in to attack one of his employees, which she is. L-Corp doesn’t have an Arbiter in their employ, they are not the Head, so An Arbiter can’t be an Arbiter. Furthermore it’s possible that the Head has a list of Arbiters that R-Corp has so that they know who they are not allowed to attack, and the Arbiter with that ID/distinguishing markings/appearance is listed as dead, so again An Arbiter can’t be an Arbiter.
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Mar 13, 2021 16:18
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TeeQueue posted:
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Mar 13, 2021 16:46
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A brutal but straightforward fight. Only thing to do now is move forward, huh?
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Mar 13, 2021 17:25
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:You bastard. Yeah, that was a good one
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Mar 13, 2021 17:51
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Huh. I was expecting the Backwards Clock to finally see some use.
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Mar 13, 2021 19:05
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Yeah the Rabbit Team strat is incredibly funny on Binah. After slamming my head against her fight for like three hours, I finally hit on the plan of using the Rabbits on her instantly, and then they just killed her in one go. A few interesting reasons that let it work so well: -Extraction only has two rooms, one of which is a super long hallway, so the Rabbits don't have to go far when Binah loops around, and can keep firing at her from a ways away -There are no meltdowns in Extraction proper, so the Rabbits won't block you from doing anything important, or get distracted by breaching Abnormalities Quackles posted:I was expecting the Backwards Clock to finally see some use. The Backwards Clock is really good here too, since it clears all meltdowns instantly, and clearing them that way still applies their special effects to Binah properly. If you're willing to sacrifice an employee to activate it that is, which TQ doesn't seem to be yet.
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Mar 13, 2021 19:19
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We're finally headed to flavor country!
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Mar 13, 2021 19:30
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:You bastard. I hope that's what finally gets Angela to snap. We're heading to the endgame and I'm pretty sure that literally the only three characters left in the story who aren't already departments heads are Angela, Myo, and A himself. So unless they decide to introduce an entirely new character at the last minute, it's probably time for Angela to finally start getting even with A.
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Mar 13, 2021 20:02
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Looks like those pillars are now physical objects and the departments are now fighting over ownership of tangible Arbiter powers.
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Mar 13, 2021 20:19
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