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The design of a truck lends itself PERFECTLY to wedge more battery capacity in though, especially considering a modern truck is so loving big. You could absolutely produce produce a 'standard' range one for all those bellends that only tootle to the shops in them as well as a double/triple pack version for people who actually use them for truck stuff. Look how nice and flat a Tesla battery pack is, just layers those fuckers up and let's go truckin'
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Mar 13, 2021 19:27
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NiMh battery EVs , wow. All the rechargeable tools I’ve ever had with that battery type have been terrible and the batteries seem to just die at the worst time so I am kinda amazed they had that in cars/trucks.
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Mar 13, 2021 19:29
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priznat posted:NiMh battery EVs , wow. All the rechargeable tools I’ve ever had with that battery type have been terrible and the batteries seem to just die at the worst time so I am kinda amazed they had that in cars/trucks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries
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Mar 13, 2021 19:33
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nope
FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Mar 13, 2021 19:34
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Counterpoint? EREV hybrid trucks using ideas from the volt and locomotive industry. Huge battery capacity under the deck, be it 5' homegamer or 20' box truck small 2-3l generator engine coupled to a generator head. Onboard 80kW power supply, onboard range extender, etc. Technically the lego exists now to be able to build such a thing in class 4-7 trucks.
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Mar 13, 2021 19:36
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Olympic Mathlete posted:The design of a truck lends itself PERFECTLY to wedge more battery capacity in though, especially considering a modern truck is so loving big. You could absolutely produce produce a 'standard' range one for all those bellends that only tootle to the shops in them as well as a double/triple pack version for people who actually use them for truck stuff. Look how nice and flat a Tesla battery pack is, just layers those fuckers up and let's go truckin' I was just going to say exactly this , It seems like this is just a failure of imagination, you could upsell the 'towing' battery pack that can also power your trailer for 4 days. Or power all your tools and welder just by plugging in at night. I also don't understand why there aren't small cargo evs worth anything. I mean like if gm made that old school pickup from bolt drivetrain components, even if it only went like 150miles it would sell hugely. Is it a safety thing? Or just that they don't want to compete with their cash cows?
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Mar 13, 2021 19:41
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Shamino posted:I genuinely don't understand why all legacy automakers (other than Ford) are basically sitting on their balls with an electric truck. I mean Toyota or GM could announce an electric Tacoma or Colorado at $40k and steal the thunder of Tesla and Rivian. The Venn diagram overlap between the traditional truck-buying demographics and the EV buying demographics is narrow enough to be described as "no man's land between trenches".
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Mar 13, 2021 19:54
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Bone Crimes posted:I also don't understand why there aren't small cargo evs worth anything. I mean like if gm made that old school pickup from bolt drivetrain components, even if it only went like 150miles it would sell hugely. Is it a safety thing? Or just that they don't want to compete with their cash cows? While they aren't pickups, we have a plethora of small cargo EVs here in Sweden. Thanks to the climate these are more practical year round than a pickup. Dacia's tiny "Spring" will apparently be available in a baby cargo van config as well, should land under 20k EUR. Maxus "e-Deliver". 52kWh battery and up to around 300km range.  There's also the EV80, around 200km range but decent load capacity.  There's the Nissan e-NV200:  The Renault Kangoo ZE:  Opel Vivaro-E:  Mercedes e-Vito:  VW e-Caddy:  VW e-Crafter:  VW e-Transporter: 
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Mar 13, 2021 20:10
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The eTransporter looks like panel version of an astro van.
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Mar 13, 2021 20:20
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These make a lot of sense IMO as they'd tend cover a few hundred km per day around cities, delivering lighter stuff like flowers or food, not bricks.
mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 13, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 20:28
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mobby_6kl posted:These make a lot of sense IMO as they'd tend cover a few hundred km per day around cities, delivering lighter stuff like flowers or food, mot bricks. I see local contractors using them too. They can carry around 1000kg / 2200 lbs which is enough for most.
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Mar 13, 2021 20:40
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Ola posted:The Venn diagram overlap between the traditional truck-buying demographics and the EV buying demographics is narrow enough to be described as "no man's land between trenches".
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Mar 13, 2021 21:33
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Ooops
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Mar 13, 2021 21:34
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Shamino posted:Cybertruck has a million preorders and fleet operators who don't give a gently caress and just care about TCO would beg to differ. The vast majority of those preorders have never bought a truck before, are uncommitted because they know it's easy to cancel and are also: 
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Mar 13, 2021 21:38
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Clayton Bigsby posted:I see local contractors using them too. They can carry around 1000kg / 2200 lbs which is enough for most. Yeah the capacity is fine, I think the issue for a wider audience is that the range would go down the drain quickly with weight. Which again realistically probably isn't an issue for most people who'd just get some materials from the nearby hardware store. But I'm sure the typical truck buyer will insist that they have to tow their 1 ton boat for 10 hours straight every week or something.
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Mar 13, 2021 21:50
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mobby_6kl posted:Yeah the capacity is fine, I think the issue for a wider audience is that the range would go down the drain quickly with weight. Which again realistically probably isn't an issue for most people who'd just get some materials from the nearby hardware store. But I'm sure the typical truck buyer will insist that they have to tow their 1 ton boat for 10 hours straight every week or something. Weight doesn't necessarily hurt EV range as much as one would guess because of Regen. Aero is a different story.
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Mar 13, 2021 21:51
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Ola posted:The vast majority of those preorders have never bought a truck before, are uncommitted because they know it's easy to cancel and are also: I didn't know Elon musk also ran Rivian. That's cool.
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Mar 13, 2021 21:55
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Not yet, but he does run the cybertruckVideoGameVet posted:Weight doesn't necessarily hurt EV range as much as one would guess because of Regen.
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Mar 13, 2021 22:28
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mobby_6kl posted:Yeah the capacity is fine, I think the issue for a wider audience is that the range would go down the drain quickly with weight. Which again realistically probably isn't an issue for most people who'd just get some materials from the nearby hardware store. But I'm sure the typical truck buyer will insist that they have to tow their 1 ton boat for 10 hours straight every week or something. It'd make a lot more sense for people to accept that they might need to rent a vehicle very occasionally in order to haul something bigger. Renting a trailer once every month or so, or maybe even an entire van to haul some big furniture, is a small expense and lets you drive a more reasonably sized vehicle the rest of the time.
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Mar 13, 2021 22:37
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Yeah I live like <5min from a Lowes, there's a U-haul in the same parking lot. Rented a truck for $20/hr, bought big heavy thing at Lowes, took it home, took it back, didn't bother putting any gas in it. $20 and an extra half hour of time (filling out rental paperwork and drop off) for a once a year event is no big deal. And even then it's just because I'm antisocial and don't want to bother my neighbors to either let me borrow theirs or give me a ride. That said I'd absolutely buy a 90s ranger/s-10 sized EV truck. After I ride the spark into the ground, I think the right thing to do is to have one respectable, functional EV and one silly, less practical EV. So a sedan/SUV EV with 300+ mi range and like a converted suzuki samurai or the cheapest thing possible, but with like a bunch of pumpkins on a vinyl full car wrap or a nice 80s brown macco paint job with blinding chrome hubcaps.
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Mar 13, 2021 22:50
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We have a couple of those Maxus EV's at work and they suck rear end.
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Mar 13, 2021 22:53
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RZA Encryption posted:Yeah I live like <5min from a Lowes, there's a U-haul in the same parking lot. Rented a truck for $20/hr, bought big heavy thing at Lowes, took it home, took it back, didn't bother putting any gas in it. $20 and an extra half hour of time (filling out rental paperwork and drop off) for a once a year event is no big deal. And even then it's just because I'm antisocial and don't want to bother my neighbors to either let me borrow theirs or give me a ride. I'm going for the ID4 practical vehicle + Miata ICE car combo myself.
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Mar 13, 2021 23:05
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Clayton Bigsby posted:I'm going for the ID4 practical vehicle + Miata ICE car combo myself. I'm leaning the same way (but replace the miata with a motorcycle). My local dealer just got their id4 tester and emailed me to set up a test drive, but I'm out of the country for a few months for work. Bummer.
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Mar 13, 2021 23:20
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DoomTrainPhD posted:Because making a brand new electric vehicle from scratch is incredibly difficult to do? The entire drivetrain and electrical system are different than ICE cars, let alone the safety regulations. You also need new assembly lines to make the electric motors and other things that make up that system. That's how you end up with a 60k entry price or whatever Rivian trucks are priced at. Not everything has to be bespoke and optimized for maximum performance. Surely there are more off the shelf solutions.
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Mar 14, 2021 00:26
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Clayton Bigsby posted:It'd make a lot more sense for people to accept that they might need to rent a vehicle very occasionally in order to haul something bigger. Renting a trailer once every month or so, or maybe even an entire van to haul some big furniture, is a small expense and lets you drive a more reasonably sized vehicle the rest of the time. A lot people have done that math (explicitly or implicitly) and decided they'd rather have the truck in their driveway than rent. A lot of things are cheaper to rent once or twice a year, but people keep buying for reasons.
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Mar 14, 2021 01:11
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GlassEye-Boy posted:That's how you end up with a 60k entry price or whatever Rivian trucks are priced at. Not everything has to be bespoke and optimized for maximum performance. Surely there are more off the shelf solutions. Legacy automakers can adapt EV tech to their ICE platforms, but my 2017 Kia Soul EV, which doesn't have any advanced self-driving like features, has an air-cooled 27kwh battery, still had an MSRP of ~37k in 2017. There's no one simple trick to make things cheaper, though yeah, it would be better if you could get off the shelf solutions for driving aids from Bosch or whomever.
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Mar 14, 2021 01:43
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Clayton Bigsby posted:It'd make a lot more sense for people to accept that they might need to rent a vehicle very occasionally in order to haul something bigger. Renting a trailer once every month or so, or maybe even an entire van to haul some big furniture, is a small expense and lets you drive a more reasonably sized vehicle the rest of the time. In the US, there are no hard incentives to push back against buying the biggest vehicle possible such as CO2 tax, fuel costs, or the physical size of the average parking space.
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Mar 14, 2021 01:54
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Has everyone here forgotten about the goddamn F-150?
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Mar 14, 2021 02:13
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Obviously! 
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Mar 14, 2021 02:15
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Charles posted:Legacy automakers can adapt EV tech to their ICE platforms, but my 2017 Kia Soul EV, which doesn't have any advanced self-driving like features, has an air-cooled 27kwh battery, still had an MSRP of ~37k in 2017. There's no one simple trick to make things cheaper, though yeah, it would be better if you could get off the shelf solutions for driving aids from Bosch or whomever. That's just it, why does a EV need driving aids? I know automakers make all their profits from these add ons, but there is no inherent reason why we need to stuff all this tech into a EV. Guess I just don't get some of the decisions the auto industry is making. The new Jeep Wagoneer is over a 100k. GlassEye-Boy fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 04:02
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GlassEye-Boy posted:That's just it, why does a EV need driving aids? I know automakers make all their profits from these add ons, but there is no inherent reason why we need to stuff all this tech into a EV. I mean...
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Mar 14, 2021 04:27
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Godholio posted:I mean... Hah yea...
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Mar 14, 2021 04:36
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GlassEye-Boy posted:That's just it, why does a EV need driving aids? I know automakers make all their profits from these add ons, but there is no inherent reason why we need to stuff all this tech into a EV. It's because big nerds are the primary market for EVs right now, and big nerds like techy poo poo. If anyone ever makes an affordable "crate" EV system maybe I'll just swap my Ranger myself.
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Mar 14, 2021 04:49
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I'm annoyed GM hasn't released their prices yet.
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Mar 14, 2021 07:44
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Well there's the Citroen Ami if you don't want any tech, and no speed or range...
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Mar 14, 2021 14:57
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Comon Ford, have the balls to not have a grille.
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Mar 14, 2021 15:47
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Cool new Model 3 hatchback photo leaks just dropped: Interesting choice they took with the rear design.
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Mar 14, 2021 16:38
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GlassEye-Boy posted:That's just it, why does a EV need driving aids? I know automakers make all their profits from these add ons, but there is no inherent reason why we need to stuff all this tech into a EV. The problem is that buyers who would be satisfied without the fluff are priced out of EVs right now, as turning an ICE vehicle into a BEV plus the Level 2 charger required for BEV ownership turns a $20,000 car into a $35,000 car before state incentives. You can't sell a $35,000 car with a plastic steering wheel and cloth seats, so you have to tart it up from there. The auto industry focuses on the high end because that's where the money's at. Everyone wants to be Porsche, who makes an average profit of $17,000 per car.
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Mar 14, 2021 16:39
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Clayton Bigsby posted:While they aren't pickups, we have a plethora of small cargo EVs here in Sweden. Thanks to the climate these are more practical year round than a pickup. Dacia's tiny "Spring" will apparently be available in a baby cargo van config as well, should land under 20k EUR. Huh, all these vans and not a single ev van for the US. Thx for this long list, I had only seen like 3 of these previously
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Mar 14, 2021 17:19
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Back in the day in say like, the 1970s or 1980s, you were lucky to get 100k miles out of a car without a failure that was non-economical to repair. If anything, cars were even more disposable than they are now. The car lifecycle was basically - sell new to someone who would either A) drive in to the ground or B) keep until 50-70k miles and flip to used market, with a single cycle on the used market until the car rusted to its component atoms (within 10 years of production) and or had a failure that was not economical to repair. Cars are relatively cheaper, and more cheaply made in many ways, and because of a lack of real long life used cars pretty much everyone buys new cars up and down the income ladder. Now, cars are relatively expensive, but they're a lot more durable and long lasting. A five year old car is perfectly fine and will probably give you another five years with mainly routine maintenance, maybe a timing belt or a water pump and some suspension bits. A ten year old car is likely to be pretty reliable and provide good service regardless of brand if you put a thousand bucks in to it. Plus, for your money, instead of getting some new shitbox Chevette, or Versa Note, you can get a perfectly good late model Altima, which although not a spectacular car is a lot nicer than the new alternatives. So the market has shifted - what would formerly be covered by super cheap low end cars is now primarily covered by long-life high quality used cars. There are no margins in the low end of the market for new cars, so OEMs continue to push upward because that's where the money is. When you release something like the Fit or the Fiesta or the Accent it gets loving crushed by a five year old CR-V, Escape, or Tucson. Why bother? It costs the same amount to develop a new Fit as it does to develop a new CR-V. Not everyone can be Porsche, but if you can go from $300/car net profit to $600 per car, even if you sell fewer cars, you are much better off as a business. The low end of the EV market is probably not unit profitable based on battery costs alone, and decontenting a car will only save you a little bit of money. In order for EVs to get down below new vehicle ATPs we need cheaper batteries. Fortunately that is happening over time as capacity increases and tech gets better.
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Mar 14, 2021 17:22
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