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Real curious about what that person thinks "what it takes" to make it in WWE that isn't just "the minute to minute changing whims of an old insane rich white man".
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Mar 13, 2021 16:11
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sticklefifer posted:Real curious about what that person thinks "what it takes" to make it in WWE that isn't just "the minute to minute changing whims of an old insane rich white man". This is the same type of person that thinks that WWE should get more credit for creating a women's revolution.
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Mar 13, 2021 21:41
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JT Smiley posted:This is the same type of person that thinks that WWE should get more credit for creating a women's revolution. By 2015 Women's wrestling was already established, healthy, growing, and thriving. It was actually the combination of AJ Lee and Paige in the WWE demanding change that lead to....Stephanie McMahon claiming credit for starting the Women's Revolution. Then the WWE gave up on the "Women are a draw" experiment they had in under two years, it arguably only happened because they had Ronda Rousey, a mainstream star that decided to work with them for a while until she just dipped out on the promise that she was trying to have a child in 2019 (She's later said although she's trying, she just didn't like the WWE environment)
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Mar 13, 2021 23:32
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RealFoxy posted:That always irritated me, there was a kind of a big dead spot in Joshi because the old promotions had either gone out of business or went pretty underground. SHIMMER started, then ICE Ribbon started and started building back up both Women's Wrestling and Joshi. TNA then started the semi-mainstream revival in 2008 when they were pushing Gail Kim vs Awesome Kong, and the Knockouts Division were legitimately some of the highest rated segments of TNA in that era. After that, Stardom started in 2010 and although pretty unrecognizable, it was another semi mainstream promotion in Japan for Joshi. AJ Lee? Pagie? Who are they? I'll think you'll find in the Official WWE History(TM) that along with Stephanie (but mostly Steph) it was The Bella Twins who ushered in the revolution. (Please tune into Total Bellas)
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Mar 13, 2021 23:39
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Best part of the Bella Twins continually being lauded by WWE as helping start the Women's Revolution is that it's technically true... because they were the two wrestlers AJ was pointing to as symbolic of everything wrong with the "Divas" at that time, and how that needed to change.
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Mar 14, 2021 00:47
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RealFoxy posted:Then the WWE gave up on the "Women are a draw" experiment they had in under two years, it arguably only happened because they had Ronda Rousey, a mainstream star that decided to work with them for a while until she just dipped out on the promise that she was trying to have a child in 2019 (She's later said although she's trying, she just didn't like the WWE environment) the way WWE completely forgot about the women the instant Rousey was gone was hilariously blatant and I'm surprised people don't talk about it more often
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Mar 14, 2021 01:29
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sticklefifer posted:Real curious about what that person thinks "what it takes" to make it in WWE that isn't just "the minute to minute changing whims of an old insane rich white man". Be white.
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Mar 14, 2021 01:34
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Jerusalem posted:Best part of the Bella Twins continually being lauded by WWE as helping start the Women's Revolution is that it's technically true... because they were the two wrestlers AJ was pointing to as symbolic of everything wrong with the "Divas" at that time, and how that needed to change. The only two standout clips I can remember from Total Bellas/Divas or the Miz show are Brie Bella being an alcoholic and The Miz throwing a tantrum because he couldn't draft his fantasy football team and was lying to his wife about doing chores. Low Desert Punk posted:the way WWE completely forgot about the women the instant Rousey was gone was hilariously blatant and I'm surprised people don't talk about it more often Actually, Becky was a star going into WM 2019, they did almost nothing with her afterwards. Bayley and Sasha got better for a minute, though.
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Mar 14, 2021 01:53
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When I stopped watching it at least seemed like the Bella's were trying to improve in the ring, but this was well past the start of the women's revolution poo poo.
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Mar 14, 2021 03:45
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Finally, someone with even dumber KENTA opinions than me. https://twitter.com/Juan15805619/status/1370861149844074498
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Mar 14, 2021 04:00
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Vince MechMahon posted:When I stopped watching it at least seemed like the Bella's were trying to improve in the ring, but this was well past the start of the women's revolution poo poo. By the end of her time in the ring, Nikki had developed into a pretty decent wrestler with some pretty alright power moves.
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Mar 14, 2021 04:06
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Bryan was teaching Bella to do some Rainmaker Elbow thing that I don't think ever got on TV but looked neat. By the end of her run at WM33, Nikki was fine. Brie came back for some mixed tag thing with Bryan against Miz and Maryse and she was pretty dire.
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Mar 14, 2021 04:09
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her sister going brie mode on liv morgan’s face was cool
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Mar 14, 2021 04:10
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Robot voice: Briiiieee mooooode
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Mar 14, 2021 04:18
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MJeff posted:Finally, someone with even dumber KENTA opinions than me. So yes, worse KENTA opinions than you, but I have to say, seeing someone respond to [Here is something we like in wrestling] with [non-sequitur about the wwf raw] is kind of loving with me because it's like they are speaking different languages. It's wild. Like I can see this being a bit a do to be obnoxious in spaces talking about the wwf (and I am going to say I probably did), but like the set-up -> swing -> loving bobble of the catch are so weird to see beat for beat.
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Mar 14, 2021 04:43
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I like how the logic is that the Fiend is good because he's less boring than endless Raw tag matches. That's the bar he had to clear.
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Mar 14, 2021 04:47
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sticklefifer posted:I like how the logic is that the Fiend is good because he's less boring than endless Raw tag matches. That's the bar he had to clear. It is funny that if you'd told a younger me that Raw would have longer matches but also he'd hate it, he would have thought you were a crazy visitor from the future.
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Mar 14, 2021 04:50
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The Bellas are the last mainstream stars the WWE will ever have.
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Mar 14, 2021 11:27
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ARMBAR A COP posted:The Bellas are the last mainstream stars the WWE will ever have. Roman does PSAs about not being a lovely dad. What more do you want???
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Mar 14, 2021 16:40
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Cesaro in a Jason Statham type role, for one.
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Mar 14, 2021 18:34
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My general rule is to not really judge the women that WWE had around that time: there are plenty of stories that show that they weren't prioritising the most important things for wrestling when it came to recruitment (although the Bellas both had a sports background so that's less the case for them); they weren't trained brilliantly because everyone involved knew that there wasn't much point in going above a certain level and when WWE women did try to go out there and have good matches they'd be told off for outshining the men. Remember that Sasha Banks and Bayley didn't want to rehearse their 2015 Brooklyn Takeover match because they were legit worried about being told to take bits out and tone stuff down and that was in 2015 AFTER they had began to turn the corner on women's wrestling. If the entire system is rotten then its not the fault of the talent. I respect Nikki Bella; when the expectations on what was expected in-ring changed she clearly worked very hard to try to adapt when she honestly could have gotten away with not changing and by the end was a perfectly fine wrestler in-ring; and she didn't deserve a lot of the nasty stuff that was said about her towards the end of her WWE run. That tweet is very funny: and its a mindset I've seen a fair bit. I'm in a Discord with people that still watch WWE weekly who'll be very defensive of the bits they see as "good" (including The Fiend) and will use similar arguments about it. I think AEW has decreased the numbers of those people since a lot of them checked them out and switched to them because its a better show; and it also wasn't one that they needed to be as defensive about.
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Mar 14, 2021 19:16
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reddit right into my veins gently caress it, let’s go with what the mods suggested. Let’s ban everything Cornette related, since he is racist and sexist, since selective outrage is what is popular now. If you ban Cornette however, there are a lot of other assholes you should ban along with him, including: Meltzer: said Apollo Crews’s current gimmick is racist, despite not being Nigerian himself, said Molly Holly was added as a token female to the Hall of Fame, made up a fake story about wrestlers being held hostage in Saudi Arabia, while also dragging Rollins’s name through the mud, insulted Peyton Royce regarding her appearance, and tried to imply that Brodie Lee’s death was initially not given tribute in WWE due to company politics. Russo: Is an outright lier on almost all things, is an outright homophobe, said anyone who is a fan of Finn Balor is gay, etc. Bryan Alvarez: Downplayed Roman Reigns’s leukemia, saying the kind his friend suffered from was the bad kind, unlike the Reigns suffered from, outright lies on his programming, complaining about Ranallo’s commentary until a friend of his pointed out Ranallo didn’t commentate on that particular segment at all, also speculated company politics were due to Brodie Lee not initially getting a tribute Chris Jericho: Performed at not one, but TWO concerts in the midst of a deadly pandemic, is also an outright Trump supporter and Covid denier, with his wife being at the capitol riot, and also inviting Donald Trump jr onto his podcast. He also tried to shame Cornette on Twitter for the stupid poo poo he has done, while not even acknowledging the rightful criticisms he made about Jericho’s abhorrent behavior. https://www.reddit.com/user/Presidentbuff/
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Mar 14, 2021 19:26
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Lid posted:Meltzer: said Apollo Crews’s current gimmick is racist, despite not being Nigerian himself 
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Mar 14, 2021 19:30
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no you see it is you who are the true racist your white oppressor https://www.sescoops.com/2021/03/nigerian-presidential-aide-sends-message-to-apollo-crews/
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Mar 14, 2021 19:35
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Eh, a friend who is of Nigeria descent explained to me why he doesn't feel it's racist and I don't particularly feel it's my place to tell him he's wrong.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:10
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I'm of Nigerian descent and my take is, seeing another person of Nigerian descent, speaking of his heritage, speaking with the accent, wearing the Nigerian flag is cool as gently caress and I'm happy for Apollo that he gets to do this on TV and I'm just happy for him in general that he gets to be on TV because he should be on TV. But I'm still pissed off that for the last seven years of him being a smiling jerk with no personality, he never got to express any of this as a babyface. He only gets to do this as a bad guy. That really bothers me and that's what I find racist about it. Drew McIntyre gets to embrace his Scottishness as a babyface. But Apollo Crews can't embrace his Nigerian heritage as one. And you see this up and down the card. Roman Reigns turns heel and here come the loving flower necklaces and he's calling himself the Tribal Chief every 4.7 seconds. Although the Usos did get to do a haka as babyfaces, so I guess this is kind of a moving target.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:26
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Yes but the Uso's doing the haka was their only character trait at all. They were so aggressively inoffensive they had no identity at all and only gained personalities when they turned heel TELL EM JEY. This made me remember that the first or second time the Bucks won tag team of the year Meltzer was shocked because he thought it would be the Uso's and to this day i have no loving idea why he thought that.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:43
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Lid posted:Yes but the Uso's doing the haka was their only character trait at all. They were so aggressively inoffensive they had no identity at all and only gained personalities when they turned heel TELL EM JEY. You're not wrong. They were aggressively boring and then they turned heel, let the hood out and became loving awesome. That's what I would've hoped a Roman heel turn would look like and it's just so goddamn boring instead. Like the Usos turned and they're snapping limbs and cutting these coked up promos about paranoia and Roman just. Can't stop loving talking about tables. I hate it so much.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:57
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“the head of the table” makes me lol and the usos don’t make me lol, so therefore Roman is better
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Mar 14, 2021 21:10
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The Usos were an excellent babyface team, and even better given WWE's standards.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:11
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MJeff posted:You're not wrong. They were aggressively boring and then they turned heel, let the hood out and became loving awesome. That's what I would've hoped a Roman heel turn would look like and it's just so goddamn boring instead. Jey! Set the table!!!!
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Mar 14, 2021 21:13
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P&P are a great example of how to have characters who are obviously proud of their heritage, are heels, but are not heels for being proud of their heritage. It's not hard which just makes it a bigger indictment that WWE can't do it.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:16
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Gumball Gumption posted:P&P are a great example of how to have characters who are obviously proud of their heritage, are heels, but are not heels for being proud of their heritage. It's not hard which just makes it a bigger indictment that WWE can't do it. I mean every time P&P talk about themselves and their heritage, everybody goes "why aren't these guys babyfaces yesterday?!" so yes, I agree with that assessment. 
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Mar 14, 2021 21:18
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MJeff posted:I mean every time P&P talk about themselves and their heritage, everybody goes "why aren't these guys babyfaces yesterday?!" so yes, I agree with that assessment. I mean that's kinda the point. It's just a cool character trait they can carry around no matter their alignment and makes them relatable dudes even as heels. And they loving need to go face it will be so good.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:19
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the Santana and Ortiz face run will be white hot and culminate in a glorious reign and they should wait for crowds
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Mar 14, 2021 21:21
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The entire Inner Circle had a de facto face turn just last week, so I think that particular problem's been sorted.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:25
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Its the difference of it being part of an established character and just being a gimmick. Ortiz and Santana's gimmick isn't that they're hispanic dudes from NYC. Its just who they are. If Apollo Crews was just expressing his heritage more naturally I think it would have been better received. But WWE doesn't do subtlety or nuance so you end up with armed guards and a spear.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:31
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You can do unsubtle and over the top well too if you really lean into it. LU was camp as gently caress but it was great. WWE's just not good at either extreme.
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Mar 14, 2021 22:56
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https://twitter.com/RajGiri_303/status/1371335978774790147 Somehow I don't think we will see de-aging technology used for this.
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Mar 15, 2021 16:16
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But imagine if we could keep Undertaker at retirement age for the next eighteen WrestlesMania
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Mar 15, 2021 19:58
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