Electric Vehicles mk3 :I've always wanted to hand-crank my car

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Electric Vehicles mk3 :I've always wanted to hand-crank my car

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Olympic Mathlete: Feb 25, 2011

SpannerX posted:

Well there's the Citroen Ami if you don't want any tech, and no speed or range...

Perfect car for a specific need though. Ami is a city car, a car for cities that aren't US cities.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 17:36

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# ? May 27, 2024 00:37

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Back in the day in say like, the 1970s or 1980s, you were lucky to get 100k miles out of a car without a failure that was non-economical to repair. If anything, cars were even more disposable than they are now. The car lifecycle was basically - sell new to someone who would either A) drive in to the ground or B) keep until 50-70k miles and flip to used market, with a single cycle on the used market until the car rusted to its component atoms (within 10 years of production) and or had a failure that was not economical to repair. Cars are relatively cheaper, and more cheaply made in many ways, and because of a lack of real long life used cars pretty much everyone buys new cars up and down the income ladder.

Now, cars are relatively expensive, but they're a lot more durable and long lasting. A five year old car is perfectly fine and will probably give you another five years with mainly routine maintenance, maybe a timing belt or a water pump and some suspension bits. A ten year old car is likely to be pretty reliable and provide good service regardless of brand if you put a thousand bucks in to it. Plus, for your money, instead of getting some new shitbox Chevette, or Versa Note, you can get a perfectly good late model Altima, which although not a spectacular car is a lot nicer than the new alternatives. So the market has shifted - what would formerly be covered by super cheap low end cars is now primarily covered by long-life high quality used cars.

There are no margins in the low end of the market for new cars, so OEMs continue to push upward because that's where the money is. When you release something like the Fit or the Fiesta or the Accent it gets loving crushed by a five year old CR-V, Escape, or Tucson. Why bother? It costs the same amount to develop a new Fit as it does to develop a new CR-V. Not everyone can be Porsche, but if you can go from $300/car net profit to $600 per car, even if you sell fewer cars, you are much better off as a business.

The low end of the EV market is probably not unit profitable based on battery costs alone, and decontenting a car will only save you a little bit of money. In order for EVs to get down below new vehicle ATPs we need cheaper batteries. Fortunately that is happening over time as capacity increases and tech gets better.

On the other hand, Dacia.

(Top line is global sales)

The margins might be poo poo (but they do recycle ancient Renault parts and Romanian labor) but they can make up in volume. If you already have a higher margin brand, something like this can work to lure people away from used cars.

I'll certainly prefer a more interesring used car for the same amount because I can afford the unpredictable service and downtime, but people with lower income that need the car to get to work would appreciate a cheaper new car with a warranty that they can easily finances, I think.

Cheap new EVs aren't going to be a thing for a while of course.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 18:02

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

I think there's a significant cannibalization effect with Dacia in core markets. The useful sales growth comes from developing markets, of course.

It's hard to break out by country in the data I have immediately to hand, so this is Europe as a whole. I'm ignoring 2020 for obvious reasons.

In 2010 Renault + Dacia sold 1.4 million cars together for a roughly 10.5% market share. Of that, about 275k were Dacias.
In 2019 Renault + Dacia sold 1.6 million cars together for a roughly 10.5% market share. Of that, about 575k were Dacias.

Over the 9 years, Renault basically traded 100k units of higher margin cars for lower margin cars to maintain the same market share. There's definitely a market there but I think there's a meaningful question about whether or not Dacia really benefits Renault in Europe.

Financing on used cars is relatively easy (and getting easier) and there's basically no difference in reliability between a three year old used car and a new car over a meaningful time horizon, which consumers have certainly caught on to. The only real reason to buy new is personal taste, and that's a luxury, not a need.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 18:14

Clayton Bigsby: Apr 17, 2005

mobby_6kl posted:

Cheap new EVs aren't going to be a thing for a while of course.

The Dacia Spring is going to land around 12k EUR after tax credits etc in France. I think that's pretty cheap. Sure, limited range (140-180 miles) and a small vehicle but really all you need for most city dwellers.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 18:17

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

I think there's a significant cannibalization effect with Dacia in core markets. The useful sales growth comes from developing markets, of course.

It's hard to break out by country in the data I have immediately to hand, so this is Europe as a whole. I'm ignoring 2020 for obvious reasons.

In 2010 Renault + Dacia sold 1.4 million cars together for a roughly 10.5% market share. Of that, about 275k were Dacias.
In 2019 Renault + Dacia sold 1.6 million cars together for a roughly 10.5% market share. Of that, about 575k were Dacias.

Over the 9 years, Renault basically traded 100k units of higher margin cars for lower margin cars to maintain the same market share. There's definitely a market there but I think there's a meaningful question about whether or not Dacia really benefits Renault in Europe.

Financing on used cars is relatively easy (and getting easier) and there's basically no difference in reliability between a three year old used car and a new car over a meaningful time horizon, which consumers have certainly caught on to. The only real reason to buy new is personal taste, and that's a luxury, not a need.

Yeah I don't have more detailed breakdowns so it's hard to say if it's cannibalizing normal Renault cars. I don't really think so, it's hard to see someone cross-shopping a Sandero and whatever Renault makes nowadays in the segment. They're much more upmarket.

Financing might depend on location. Used car loans are like 4% here and there are a bunch of restrictions on age and mileage.

I don't really disagree that older cars are pretty drat reliable (owner of 15-17 y.o. cars myself), but if you draw the shortest straw and a rod knocks a hole in your block, someone without the spare cash would definitely prefer to have it covered by warranty. Hell my Fit has a broken EGR valve, and if I took it to a mechanic, it's cost more to repair than a monthly payment on a cheap car.

Clayton Bigsby posted:

The Dacia Spring is going to land around 12k EUR after tax credits etc in France. I think that's pretty cheap. Sure, limited range (140-180 miles) and a small vehicle but really all you need for most city dwellers.

Unfortunately charging is an issue in cities since you usually can't charge at home. And without subsidies it's twice as much as a Sandero with more limited utility to the general public, so it'll probably sell but not really take off IMO.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 18:58

SlowBloke: Aug 14, 2017

mobby_6kl posted:

And without subsidies it's twice as much as a Sandero with more limited utility to the general public, so it'll probably sell but not really take off IMO.

Dacia has published the prices on the italian site, 21400� for the top model. A Sandero stepway comfort(highest avail) is 13800�. The sandero doesn't not get any scrap incentive, due to emissions. The spring has about 10k of incentives, making it cheaper than a sandero if you have any used car euro 4 or older.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 19:03

SpannerX: Apr 26, 2010; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.; Fun Shoe

Olympic Mathlete posted:

Perfect car for a specific need though. Ami is a city car, a car for cities that aren't US cities.

Honestly, for my commute, that car would be perfectly fine. Old city small streets, and not too big.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 19:14

Shai-Hulud: Jul 10, 2008; But it feels so right!; Lipstick Apathy

My main issue with the Spring ist the lack of power. 45hp is just...not much.
While I think the ridiculous power most manufacturers are putting into their EVs is pretty stupid I also think that 45hp is not enough even for a city car.
My first car was a 44hp Corsa and even though that thing probably weighed 200kg less than the Spring it was a loving drag to drive.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 19:24

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Shai-Hulud posted:

My main issue with the Spring ist the lack of power. 45hp is just...not much.
While I think the ridiculous power most manufacturers are putting into their EVs is pretty stupid I also think that 45hp is not enough even for a city car.
My first car was a 44hp Corsa and even though that thing probably weighed 200kg less than the Spring it was a loving drag to drive.

So I was curious if there were any more news on the Spring since I read about it months ago. It seems that some first drives are starting to leak out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJcsfPrSYP0 it's in French but auto captions work ok enough to follow.
0-100 is 19 seconds which is very slow indeed. My 1.4l Jazz is like 13 I think and even the modern 1l shitboxes manage around 14s. I'm guessing it's not so tragic in 0-50 but yeah, I'm not sure whatever they're saving but not using a slightly larger motor is worth it.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 19:52

Clayton Bigsby: Apr 17, 2005

mobby_6kl posted:

Unfortunately charging is an issue in cities since you usually can't charge at home. And without subsidies it's twice as much as a Sandero with more limited utility to the general public, so it'll probably sell but not really take off IMO.

It'll be interesting to see how charging for city dwellers is addressed in the future. I imagine it'll have to be either an awful lot of smaller chargers everywhere, or getting car to fast charge quick enough that a 5 minute stop a day is sufficient. My brother lives in a townhouse where they have a big common parking lot and there are no plans for chargers there as of yet which I think is a drat shame. Gotta get that poo poo rolled out so more people will consider EVs.

But I'd say that (relatively!) cheap EVs _do_ exist. Subsidies or not, it's what you end up paying in the end that people care about.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 19:56

luminalflux: May 27, 2005

Clayton Bigsby posted:

It'll be interesting to see how charging for city dwellers is addressed in the future. I imagine it'll have to be either an awful lot of smaller chargers everywhere, or getting car to fast charge quick enough that a 5 minute stop a day is sufficient. My brother lives in a townhouse where they have a big common parking lot and there are no plans for chargers there as of yet which I think is a drat shame. Gotta get that poo poo rolled out so more people will consider EVs.

LA's experimenting with charging points on street lights, which seems cool and good.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 19:59

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

There's a company that's using ~*AI*~ to load balance charging needs in multifamily housing. I forget the name or where I read about it. Despite my eye-rolls at AI tech startups, I think there could be some promise there. The idea is that:

It is too expensive/too onerous for apartment companies or condo associations to put in charging infrastructure for every spot
Not everyone has the same charging needs/driving habits
If you could charge cars intermittently over night, you could have many cars share the same power source

So given a simple example of 10 charging spots, ordinarily you might put in a 50 amp breaker for each spot. That's 50A x 10 spots == 500A service that needs to be added onto whatever their current power needs are. If you load balanced, say 5 cars on the same breaker, you only need 50A x (10 / 5 = 2) load balancers = 100A service to be added (or may already be available!).

A simple way to split the charging timeshare would be to round-robin it, each plugged in car gets rotated through, one car per hour. If all cars are plugged in, after 5 hours each car has charged for 1 hour. If 3 of the 5 are plugged in, each car got to charge for 1h40m.

If the load balancer was able to know SoC for each car, you could optimize further. Not everyone is charging from empty. Scenario: 5 cars are plugged in, 4 are above 70%, 1 is around 20%, the load balancer prioritizes the car with the lower SoC with the target to have all cars around 80% by morning.

A system like this could catch you by surprise if all 5 cars arrive late at night with a near empty battery, but this + a nearby fast charger for those situations could accommodate most needs.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 20:50

ilkhan: Oct 7, 2004; I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

The issue with city parking afaik is outlets, not necessarily breaker space.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 20:52

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

Right, the thing I'm talking about would serve residential parking garages or apartment complex parking lots. Doesn't solve street parking, but still would make EVs a realistic option for many others. I don't think there's a single solution. Meet the people where they are.

If we're going to do widespread streetlight chargers in the US, though, I would like to see a system like in europe where the charging cables are provided by the car owner. Cable theft/damage would suck for the owners, but I don't imagine the city would respond very quickly to cable replacement if someone took a hacksaw to an attached one. There was a blink charger at the Sears by me. Someone hacked off all the cables, blink never replaced them, and now the Sears is out of business! 🙃

To be clear, I'm not suggesting a 14-50 outlet be added to light poles, and everyone provides an EVSE. I'm saying it would be like a dumb cable with j1772 on both ends, with the EVSE equipment in the light pole or whatever.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 21:09

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

RZA Encryption posted:

There's a company that's using ~*AI*~ to load balance charging needs in multifamily housing. I forget the name or where I read about it. Despite my eye-rolls at AI tech startups, I think there could be some promise there. The idea is that:

It is too expensive/too onerous for apartment companies or condo associations to put in charging infrastructure for every spot

Not everyone has the same charging needs/driving habits

If you could charge cars intermittently over night, you could have many cars share the same power source

So given a simple example of 10 charging spots, ordinarily you might put in a 50 amp breaker for each spot. That's 50A x 10 spots == 500A service that needs to be added onto whatever their current power needs are. If you load balanced, say 5 cars on the same breaker, you only need 50A x (10 / 5 = 2) load balancers = 100A service to be added (or may already be available!).

A simple way to split the charging timeshare would be to round-robin it, each plugged in car gets rotated through, one car per hour. If all cars are plugged in, after 5 hours each car has charged for 1 hour. If 3 of the 5 are plugged in, each car got to charge for 1h40m.

If the load balancer was able to know SoC for each car, you could optimize further. Not everyone is charging from empty. Scenario: 5 cars are plugged in, 4 are above 70%, 1 is around 20%, the load balancer prioritizes the car with the lower SoC with the target to have all cars around 80% by morning.

A system like this could catch you by surprise if all 5 cars arrive late at night with a near empty battery, but this + a nearby fast charger for those situations could accommodate most needs.

Yeah it's stretching the term "AI" seriously thin for logic that is so simple you could set it up with a children's wiring kit for learning circuitry. There's plenty of load balancing solutions available, Tesla has it as an option on their EVSE boxes.

Prioritizing based on SoC might be right or wrong, a Tesla at 40% can go further than a Citigo-E at 70%. And intermittent charging can cause problems in winter, as cold soaked batteries can sit for a long time heating up before they start charging. If you're unlucky, you only get some heating late in the night with no charge added by the morning. And some cars have slow charge rate from the factory, they'd rather sit all night at 32A than take a few hours of 50A available, which they can't use anyway. Instead of intermittent charging, you can simply adjust the power up/down as needed which is how charging load balancing works in the ones I've seen.

Install power so that each car is guaranteed say 25A (@110V) minimum. Then as the first cars finish, the EVSE reports back to the load balancer and the power is ramped up in the other ones. The EVSE is told by the car what maximum power it can take at any given time, so if a car with a maximum charge rate of 32A plugs in, it will never be assigned more than that and thus won't take any more than that away from the others.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 21:10

Clayton Bigsby: Apr 17, 2005

RZA Encryption posted:

There's a company that's using ~*AI*~ to load balance charging needs in multifamily housing. I forget the name or where I read about it. Despite my eye-rolls at AI tech startups, I think there could be some promise there. The idea is that:

It is too expensive/too onerous for apartment companies or condo associations to put in charging infrastructure for every spot

Not everyone has the same charging needs/driving habits

If you could charge cars intermittently over night, you could have many cars share the same power source

So given a simple example of 10 charging spots, ordinarily you might put in a 50 amp breaker for each spot. That's 50A x 10 spots == 500A service that needs to be added onto whatever their current power needs are. If you load balanced, say 5 cars on the same breaker, you only need 50A x (10 / 5 = 2) load balancers = 100A service to be added (or may already be available!).

A simple way to split the charging timeshare would be to round-robin it, each plugged in car gets rotated through, one car per hour. If all cars are plugged in, after 5 hours each car has charged for 1 hour. If 3 of the 5 are plugged in, each car got to charge for 1h40m.

If the load balancer was able to know SoC for each car, you could optimize further. Not everyone is charging from empty. Scenario: 5 cars are plugged in, 4 are above 70%, 1 is around 20%, the load balancer prioritizes the car with the lower SoC with the target to have all cars around 80% by morning.

A system like this could catch you by surprise if all 5 cars arrive late at night with a near empty battery, but this + a nearby fast charger for those situations could accommodate most needs.

The company that makes the charging box I bought (Ctek) allows you to load balance a number of units grouped together this way. They aren't touting some AI capabilities though so maybe it flies under the radar. But they offer a version that not only load balances the boxes based on a certain amp feed but can hook into a larger system and feed the boxes whatever's left over based on what the main fuses for e.g. the entire building can handle.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 21:14

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

And it may work that way! I'm posting the gist I got from an article I read some time ago. I'm sure it could be improved, and I'm sure they're not going to "unlock" 50A for a car that can only take 16A to the detriment of others.

As for the point about "a Tesla at 40% can go further than a Citigo-E at 70%", I would think the Citigo-E owner would be accustomed to their range, and probably adjusts their charging expectations based on percentage instead of miles. Agree that a guaranteed minimum constant power makes sense.

Anyway, I'm not here to promote the company, I just thought it was an interesting idea and if it gets more chargers in places I will support it.

I think this was it: https://evercharge.net/

Edit: reading through this I don't see a mention of "AI", so maybe the BS level is lower here. Also, the fact that they seem to handle the installation soup-to-nuts I think is where the real benefit here is. Yes, there are EVSEs that can load balance. Some condo association isn't going to order a bunch of juiceboxes and figure it out themselves though. It is a good thing that companies exist to demystify the process for places that don't have an EV enthusiast pushing things along.

Wayne Knight fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 14, 2021

# ? Mar 14, 2021 21:19

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

RZA Encryption posted:

Also, the fact that they seem to handle the installation soup-to-nuts I think is where the real benefit here is. Yes, there are EVSEs that can load balance. Some condo association isn't going to order a bunch of juiceboxes and figure it out themselves though. It is a good thing that companies exist to demystify the process for places that don't have an EV enthusiast pushing things along.

Agree, that total service can be more important than the load balacning. They fix electricians, leave options for expanding etc. In Norway there's a few suppliers that even sell you the electricity. You pay little to install a bunch of chargers, then the users pay down the installation through use. Typically it means having an RFID chip to start it, which seems a bit annoying IMO.

To me it would be ideal to pay for the installation up front, "just plug it in", have the balance signalling in common but have the power use on my own electricity bill so I'm not paying sucker rates.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 21:43

Wibla: Feb 16, 2011

Load balancing EV chargers for larger installs is largely a solved problem, and costs are coming down.

Also we have some scummy* providers like Ohmia over here in :norway:

, but legislation is finally catching up to them and their business model is (hopefully) about to become extinct.

*Read: straight up scamming apartment building boards into setting up lovely rent-based chargers that are more expensive to use than fast charging, or driving a fossil car :v:

# ? Mar 14, 2021 21:48

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

It would be helpful if the powerline communication function was implemented in J1772 so the car could actually communicate with the EVSE for smart functions.

# ? Mar 14, 2021 21:53

GunnerJ: Aug 1, 2005; Do you think this is funny?

Hello EV goons, I have a question about charging my car at home without a garage. I recently got a 2020 Ioniq PHEV and will be moving into a house with no garage, but it does have an external outlet. I would like to take advantage of regularly charging at home to get my commuter miles back every day, but not if it means risking burning down my house or shorting the car or whatever (I have never owned an electric vehicle of any kind at all).

So the question is: how safe is it to plug the car into the external outlet with the included trickle charger? I am mostly worried about leaving it out in rain or snow, which seems like a very bad idea but for all I know the trickle charger can handle that. Sorry if this is super basic poo poo!

# ? Mar 15, 2021 01:32

sanchez: Feb 26, 2003

So the ID4 has standalone hard button ancillary controls for defrosting the windshield and rear window located on the dash on the outboard side of the steering wheel. I am pretty sure this is the most cynical VW poo poo possible and they have consciously done that to avoid having to mass recall the cars outside of warranty if the center displays start to fail. I believe a big part of the Tesla MCU recall was related to the inability to defrost the windows with a dead center display, which is a safety issue.

Is there another reason those two functions would be singled out for dedicated buttons? The rear defroster in particular seems like such a rarely used item..

# ? Mar 15, 2021 01:37

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

I use my rear defroster every day, about 8 months out of the year

# ? Mar 15, 2021 01:44

LRADIKAL: Jun 10, 2001; Fun Shoe

GunnerJ posted:

Hello EV goons, I have a question about charging my car at home without a garage. I recently got a 2020 Ioniq PHEV and will be moving into a house with no garage, but it does have an external outlet. I would like to take advantage of regularly charging at home to get my commuter miles back every day, but not if it means risking burning down my house or shorting the car or whatever (I have never owned an electric vehicle of any kind at all).

So the question is: how safe is it to plug the car into the external outlet with the included trickle charger? I am mostly worried about leaving it out in rain or snow, which seems like a very bad idea but for all I know the trickle charger can handle that. Sorry if this is super basic poo poo!

If it's an outdoor outlet with cover and gfci it's very safe.

I do not endorse it, but I ran my leaf off of an outdoor plug through an extension cord for 4 years before upgrading.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 02:10

Saukkis: May 16, 2003; Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

sanchez posted:

Is there another reason those two functions would be singled out for dedicated buttons? The rear defroster in particular seems like such a rarely used item..

I think the rear defroster is the most used button in my car.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 02:12

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

mobby_6kl posted:

Not yet, but he does run the cybertruck

IIRC, the increased rolling resistance would still eat up most of the benefits: https://youtu.be/S4W-P5aCWJs

Minor compared to aero

# ? Mar 15, 2021 02:12

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Charles posted:

Legacy automakers can adapt EV tech to their ICE platforms, but my 2017 Kia Soul EV, which doesn't have any advanced self-driving like features, has an air-cooled 27kwh battery, still had an MSRP of ~37k in 2017. There's no one simple trick to make things cheaper, though yeah, it would be better if you could get off the shelf solutions for driving aids from Bosch or whomever.

That�s a real contrast to my 2020 Kia Niro EV in every way.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 02:14

Elviscat: Jan 1, 2008; Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

GunnerJ posted:

Hello EV goons, I have a question about charging my car at home without a garage. I recently got a 2020 Ioniq PHEV and will be moving into a house with no garage, but it does have an external outlet. I would like to take advantage of regularly charging at home to get my commuter miles back every day, but not if it means risking burning down my house or shorting the car or whatever (I have never owned an electric vehicle of any kind at all).

So the question is: how safe is it to plug the car into the external outlet with the included trickle charger? I am mostly worried about leaving it out in rain or snow, which seems like a very bad idea but for all I know the trickle charger can handle that. Sorry if this is super basic poo poo!

Pretty much every 120V trickle charger is weatherproof, J1772 connectors are also completely weatherproof, mine charges my car every night rain, snow or shine (PNW, so mostly rain).

If you own the house there's some things you can do to make everything better relatively cheaply, if you rent, gently caress it. If you can keep the majority of the charger (minus the cable basically) under an overhang or something that keeps water off it, that'd be better.

I'd make sure the outlet's GFCI protected and grounded at a minimum, like the poster above me said.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 02:22

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

VideoGameVet posted:

That�s a real contrast to my 2020 Kia Niro EV in every way.

It's not quite a compliance vehicle; some thought went into it and they are supporting the car. But it's very much a first draft. The contemporary Ioniq was more advanced but wasn't sold in this state. I let the first owner pay the massive depreciation

Hopefully in a few years I can get my ideal vehicle.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 02:26

GunnerJ: Aug 1, 2005; Do you think this is funny?

LRADIKAL posted:

If it's an outdoor outlet with cover and gfci it's very safe.

I do not endorse it, but I ran my leaf off of an outdoor plug through an extension cord for 4 years before upgrading.

Elviscat posted:

Pretty much every 120V trickle charger is weatherproof, J1772 connectors are also completely weatherproof, mine charges my car every night rain, snow or shine (PNW, so mostly rain).

If you own the house there's some things you can do to make everything better relatively cheaply, if you rent, gently caress it. If you can keep the majority of the charger (minus the cable basically) under an overhang or something that keeps water off it, that'd be better.

I'd make sure the outlet's GFCI protected and grounded at a minimum, like the poster above me said.

Thanks, both of you! In the long run I plan to get a real charging port but for now I'm stuck with the trickle charger. Speaking of... it's good to hear that these things tend to be weatherproof, but what worries me is this big power supply/readout brick (shown here) that I am worried will not be able to deal with the rain. But it sounds like maybe I can keep it somewhat shielded from the elements and that will be okay?

# ? Mar 15, 2021 02:59

Orvin: Sep 9, 2006

sanchez posted:

So the ID4 has standalone hard button ancillary controls for defrosting the windshield and rear window located on the dash on the outboard side of the steering wheel. I am pretty sure this is the most cynical VW poo poo possible and they have consciously done that to avoid having to mass recall the cars outside of warranty if the center displays start to fail. I believe a big part of the Tesla MCU recall was related to the inability to defrost the windows with a dead center display, which is a safety issue.

Is there another reason those two functions would be singled out for dedicated buttons? The rear defroster in particular seems like such a rarely used item..

Do you not live in an area that gets cool/cold with moderate to high humidity? A rear defroster will be used almost daily from November to April in the Midwest. Especially if you park outside.

I think my Mach-E has similar defroster buttons on the left side of the steering wheel. In addition to quick buttons on the center display that are always visible (along with the other climate control buttons).

# ? Mar 15, 2021 03:13

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

GunnerJ posted:

Thanks, both of you! In the long run I plan to get a real charging port but for now I'm stuck with the trickle charger. Speaking of... it's good to hear that these things tend to be weatherproof, but what worries me is this big power supply/readout brick (shown here) that I am worried will not be able to deal with the rain. But it sounds like maybe I can keep it somewhat shielded from the elements and that will be okay?

One of these kind of boxes is an easy solution if you're leaving it plugged in all the time

# ? Mar 15, 2021 03:15

Elviscat: Jan 1, 2008; Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

GunnerJ posted:

Thanks, both of you! In the long run I plan to get a real charging port but for now I'm stuck with the trickle charger. Speaking of... it's good to hear that these things tend to be weatherproof, but what worries me is this big power supply/readout brick (shown here) that I am worried will not be able to deal with the rain. But it sounds like maybe I can keep it somewhat shielded from the elements and that will be okay?

A) gently caress Hyundai for making info on the Yura 91887-g7520 EVSE impossible to find, also for, apparently, labeling it "emergency use only"

B) double for this price tag.

C) It's listed as a "4X" enclosure, I'm assuming that means NEMA 4X, which means it's completely watertight, up to submersion. So technically it should be just fine.

I'd for sure get some sort of secondary protection to keep it from getting soaked though, I don't trust those waterproof grommets on the ends to stay water tight forever.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 03:22

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

Orvin posted:

Do you not live in an area that gets cool/cold with moderate to high humidity? A rear defroster will be used almost daily from November to April in the Midwest. Especially if you park outside.

I think my Mach-E has similar defroster buttons on the left side of the steering wheel. In addition to quick buttons on the center display that are always visible (along with the other climate control buttons).

Oh yeah, another thought, it might get cold enough to where the LCD / touchscreen doesn't function well, so you'd really want those buttons. But yeah maybe it's so you're not screwed if the screen fails. So what?

But sursprongly, the screen on an eNiro works okay at -39, lol
https://youtu.be/aE7oaYu9yzw
Starts it at about 3:30

Edit: I left my evse outside in the rain and snow, although under an eave.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 03:27

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

When does the Kia EV6 info drop?

# ? Mar 15, 2021 05:11

Franco Caution: Jul 18, 2003; Wicked. Tricksy. False.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/this-is-the-2022-kia-ev6-based-on-same-platform-as-ioniq-5/

I like the rear light a lot. I also like the rest of it too.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 08:46

CAT INTERCEPTOR: Nov 9, 2004; Basically a male Margaret Thatcher

Well if we are going to be saddled with CUV's going forward, thats not a bad looking one. Interior isnt bad either.

Three spoke steering wheel and better looking alloys and there wouldnt be anything I'd complain about

# ? Mar 15, 2021 10:45

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Dang, that looks great. Hope it gets the same seats as the Ioniq.

As much as I prefer the more open center console of the Ioniq in theory, in practice I do bring a bunch of stuff on trips which I need to keep easy to hand.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 11:04

Yeep: Nov 8, 2004

Franco Caution posted:

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/this-is-the-2022-kia-ev6-based-on-same-platform-as-ioniq-5/

I like the rear light a lot. I also like the rest of it too.

This needs to gently caress off though

quote:

Control of the HVAC system is done through touchscreen buttons that provide haptic feedback.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 11:48

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# ? May 27, 2024 00:37

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

That Kia looks good.

I like DIGITAL TIGER FACE

# ? Mar 15, 2021 12:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Electric Vehicles mk3 :I've always wanted to hand-crank my car

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