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Just finished DS9; compared to the heights S6 reaches I thought S7 was somewhat of a let down, specifically the last 10-parter. It felt like they had ignored the Dominion War for long periods of time and were now trying to tie up the long narrative of the story that in my opinion ultimately fell flat. I mean, I thought the evil Kai poo poo could've been done so much better, from her first appearance Vedek Winn is this character with bad intentions you dislike so it was ripe to develop. And it's a lot of build up scenes of the same thing repeated (fight with Dukat, make up, repeat- for 10 episodes). And Dukat is pretty much wasted, not interacting with anyone he's spent last 6 seasons with as either helping & going out of his way for, or fighting against in big ways, besides the final scene. I'll eventually go back and watch it again as it's always fun to return to first seasons after having binged a show. Meantime I'll probably check some Trek films before deciding to watch a different series.
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Mar 15, 2021 04:58
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Goblin Craft posted:https://phys.org/news/2021-03-warp-barrier-faster-than-light.html quote:In contrast, new research carried out at the University of Göttingen gets around this problem by constructing a new class of hyper-fast 'solitons' using sources with only positive energies that can enable travel at any speed. Solitons? That didn't work out so well last time...
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Mar 15, 2021 05:23
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McSpanky posted:Solitons? That didn't work out so well last time... only if they're waves. particles are fine. just keep them away from slits in paper and you're good.
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Mar 15, 2021 05:39
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quote:In contrast, new research carried out at the University of Göttingen gets around this problem by constructing a new class of hyper-fast 'solitons' using sources with only positive energies that can enable travel at any speed. Positive vibes only.
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Mar 15, 2021 08:46
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Kesper North posted:Positive vibes only. Weed, the final frontier
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Mar 15, 2021 11:25
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knox posted:Just finished DS9; compared to the heights S6 reaches I thought S7 was somewhat of a let down, specifically the last 10-parter. It felt like they had ignored the Dominion War for long periods of time and were now trying to tie up the long narrative of the story that in my opinion ultimately fell flat. I mean, I thought the evil Kai poo poo could've been done so much better, from her first appearance Vedek Winn is this character with bad intentions you dislike so it was ripe to develop. And it's a lot of build up scenes of the same thing repeated (fight with Dukat, make up, repeat- for 10 episodes). And Dukat is pretty much wasted, not interacting with anyone he's spent last 6 seasons with as either helping & going out of his way for, or fighting against in big ways, besides the final scene. The only good thing about the Kai stuff is the bit where she's confessing to Kira; but yeah everything else is bland to awful. I also thought Dax's storyline was kinda wasted. On the other hand I liked most of the rest, the Kira/Garak team up on Cardassia rules
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Mar 15, 2021 13:22
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The Bajor stuff is the weakest, but that was always the Achilles Heel of the show, so it’s not at all surprising
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Mar 15, 2021 14:57
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McSpanky posted:Solitons? That didn't work out so well last time... The soliton wave worked pretty well, it just needed a bit more work to be practical. In a universe with good writing, it would have existed in Discovery season 3.
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Mar 15, 2021 16:43
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Good writers would have used the Soliton Wave to destroy Romulus instead of some kind of Supernova that moves faster than warp speed for reasons.
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Mar 15, 2021 16:48
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Burning_Monk posted:Good writers would have used the Soliton Wave to destroy Romulus instead of some kind of Supernova that moves faster than warp speed for reasons. But then how did they evacuate people at all? 
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Mar 15, 2021 17:27
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Eimi posted:But then how did they evacuate people at all? However, 'faster than light' is clearly not instantaneous in this context. If you had some kind of super-death-cloud or something that's going to make all your warp technology explode, but it's propagating at warp 2, you can outrace it if you can go at warp 5.
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Mar 15, 2021 19:21
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Eimi posted:But then how did they evacuate people at all? Picard retcons it so that the Romulan home system star is the one that goes supernova and it gave off like 5 years worth of warnings that it was gonna blow up so they had plenty of time to both co-ordinate and self-sabotage an evacuation effort.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:27
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StashAugustine posted:The only good thing about the Kai stuff is the bit where she's confessing to Kira; but yeah everything else is bland to awful. I also thought Dax's storyline was kinda wasted. On the other hand I liked most of the rest, the Kira/Garak team up on Cardassia rules One of the best scenes was Dukat trying to open da evil book and it loving blinds him "MY EYEZZ!!!" I wish I could've seen a blind Dukat servant to Winn somehow redeem himself in the end, since he was always a conflicted character. I don't know, thinking about it none of it makes any sense or has a cohesive storyline even when contained within that 10-part arc, for Cardassia/Bajor/etc. The twist of somehow after all that poo poo with Winn, the Pan-wraiths 'choose' Dukat who just gets Gollum'd instantly by Sisko...I mean, that's how your going to payoff this entire storyline of Prophets vs Pan-wraiths? Forreal? First half of S7 they spend too much time trying to install Ezri as a character and then it's just right into 10-parter with sort of hollow scenes that tie poo poo up or just sort of empty filler to eventually get to the point where it all ties up. Show could've used another season due to that probably.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:35
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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
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Mar 15, 2021 22:36
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Sorry, but some fish persons scream can outrun slipstream drive therefore Alex Kurtzman is dumb and this is the reason why romulus blows up for no reason.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:38
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knox posted:I wish I could've seen a blind Dukat servant to Winn somehow redeem himself in the end, since he was always a conflicted character. He wasn't really, though, he was just charismatic enough to fool the audience into think it.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:43
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MikeJF posted:He wasn't really, though, he was just charismatic enough to fool the audience into think it. Yeah, even early on, it is very clear without dukat saying the half truths and half "we should work together to get along" every single chance he has to take back power he does without any question. It never was about anything but his pursue of power, and later on his daughter. Even his daughter i felt he only half cared for, he wanted her there as a bargaining chip he could use to excuse a conquest of DS9 and final genocide of the Bajoran people.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:47
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MikeJF posted:He wasn't really, though, he was just charismatic enough to fool the audience into think it. It's the Gundam meme, only Dukat is the Gundam, the dude looking straight at him is going "Wow, cool lizard dude!" and the arc going over the guy's head that Dukat is shooting with his phaser says "GUL DUKAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A FASCIST MONSTER".
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Mar 15, 2021 22:47
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I guess I'm thinking about that episode where Dukat pulls up in the bird-of-prey and genuinely helps Sisko and squad. I thought for a small time period before he retakes power in Cardassia and he goes on mission with Kira as well where he doesn't come off as an evil scheming rear end in a top hat only. I watched the first seasons few months ago so I don't remember everything and I probably missed an episode around when he regains power.
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Mar 15, 2021 23:12
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The problem is that bajorans are consistently portrayed as being thoroughly awful, to the point where it would be slanderous to compare them to a real ethnic group. The bajorans are also responsible for destroying cardassia's natural environment with their relativistic sailboats so there's a lot of reaping what they sowed there.
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Mar 15, 2021 23:14
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knox posted:I guess I'm thinking about that episode where Dukat pulls up in the bird-of-prey and genuinely helps Sisko and squad. I thought for a small time period before he retakes power in Cardassia and he goes on mission with Kira as well where he doesn't come off as an evil scheming rear end in a top hat only. I watched the first seasons few months ago so I don't remember everything and I probably missed an episode around when he regains power. Part of the problem with Dukat at the end of the series (ie. post-Waltz) is that the writers were concerned that too many fans were sympathizing with him so they made a deliberate effort of making his actions more unambiguously evil.
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Mar 15, 2021 23:16
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In the DS9 episode where Garak and Worf go to the Gamma Quadrant to find Tain, Sisko says something about Starfleet being spread thin between the Klingon war and recent Borg attacks. I don't remember any Borg attacks in DS9 -- is this referencing something in a concurrent Trek series or did they just make up something for him to say? e: Oh wait, S5 was like 1996 -- is he talking about the events of First Contact I guess? It's been so long since I watched that movie I forgot it existed.
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Mar 16, 2021 00:16
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Tunicate posted:The bajorans are also responsible for destroying cardassia's natural environment with their relativistic sailboats so there's a lot of reaping what they sowed there. What?
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Mar 16, 2021 00:18
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Martytoof posted:In the DS9 episode where Garak and Worf go to the Gamma Quadrant to find Tain, Sisko says something about Starfleet being spread thin between the Klingon war and recent Borg attacks. I don't remember any Borg attacks in DS9 -- is this referencing something in a concurrent Trek series or did they just make up something for him to say?
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Mar 16, 2021 00:31
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Nitrousoxide posted:What? We find out in one ds9 episode that early bajoran subwarp ships could be flung by a weird natural phenomena in bajor's star system to superluminal speeds, as a one-way trip, without any possibility of return. One ship actually made this voyage historically, and hit cardassia prime, getting destroyed upon impact. This impact was so energetic that the bajorans had a legend about it happening, despite all witnesses aboard the ship dying. It could be detected lightyears away. The timeline for this ship impacting Cardassia Prime matches up with the destruction of the peaceful Hebitian culture, a sudden loss of natural resources, and widespread death by starvation. This is the obvious and inevitable consequence of an unprepared planet getting hit by something travelling at relativistic velocity.
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Mar 16, 2021 00:39
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes that was when FC happens You can tell roughly when First Contact happens in DS9 because they roll out the TNG movie uniforms like almost immediately afterwards to keep up the continuity. Voyager, sadly, didn't get the FC uniforms by dint of its premise, but they also reference First Contact eventually too.
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Mar 16, 2021 00:42
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Tunicate posted:We find out in one ds9 episode that early bajoran subwarp ships could be flung by a weird natural phenomena in bajor's star system to superluminal speeds, as a one-way trip, without any possibility of return.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:01
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Nessus posted:Could you elaborate more on the conditions under which genocide is justified? I'd be curious to see your rubric. Yeah the bajorans depopulating cardassia prime was pretty unjustifiable. Humans depopulated multiple planets with chemical weapons, and then also tried to kill the founders with biological weaponry. Ds9 has a lot of morally reprehensible people in it. Tunicate fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 01:07
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nine-gear crow posted:Voyager, sadly, didn't get the FC uniforms by dint of its premise… Voyager also, stupidly, got the DS9 uniforms, by dint of the producers being too apathetic to carry forward DS9's distinction between station uniforms and starship uniforms. Wait, was the first thing Voyager spent a bunch of replicator energy on a bunch of Starfleet uniforms for the Maquis crew?
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Mar 16, 2021 01:09
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So what you are saying is dukat did nothing wrong? 
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Mar 16, 2021 01:10
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CPColin posted:Voyager also, stupidly, got the DS9 uniforms, by dint of the producers being too apathetic to carry forward DS9's distinction between station uniforms and starship uniforms. Too bad the Generations production couldn't figure out that distinction, either.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:12
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McSpanky posted:Too bad the Generations production couldn't figure out that distinction, either. Oh they did, it was literally a matter of "Rick Berman spiked the new uniforms we designed for the movie, and we've have run out of costumes for all the extras, quick, raid the DS9 wardrobe while Ira Steven Behr's asleep and use whatever you can scrounge up."
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Mar 16, 2021 01:18
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knox posted:One of the best scenes was Dukat trying to open da evil book and it loving blinds him "MY EYEZZ!!!" I wish I could've seen a blind Dukat servant to Winn somehow redeem himself in the end, since he was always a conflicted character. Fun fact, that was literally only done to stall for time because they realized they had no more Dukat story left before the finale, but still like 3 more episodes to fill. I think in hindsight you do have to grade DS9 S7 on a bit of a curve because what they were doing was so rare back then, when TV production was so much more workmanlike and schedule-driven. But I do still love it, and don't really think they could've done better, and can't think of many other shows that have.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:22
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look it's not the bajorans fault they're in the one trek where people act like human beings instead of robots. it is their fault that they're mostly boring dipshits or that lady from the parish council compared to an entire planet of Hans Landa cosplayers
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Mar 16, 2021 02:16
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the one thing I really hated about the pah wraith stuff at the end is that for most of the show the prophets/wormhole aliens are basically both ascended energy beings who are basically indistinguishable from deities; its like all the old TOS god-of-the-week episodes except the bajorans just say gently caress you they're still gods. Except then at the end somehow the wraiths are being summoned by magic incantations from the loving Necronomicon
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Mar 16, 2021 02:21
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StashAugustine posted:the one thing I really hated about the pah wraith stuff at the end is that for most of the show the prophets/wormhole aliens are basically both ascended energy beings who are basically indistinguishable from deities; its like all the old TOS god-of-the-week episodes except the bajorans just say gently caress you they're still gods. Except then at the end somehow the wraiths are being summoned by magic incantations from the loving Necronomicon The only good things were the episode were Keiko gets possessed by one and the one where Dukat starts a Pah Wraith cult on Empok Nor I'm not even going to mention the episode where Kira and Jake get possessed by a prophet and a Pah Wraith and almost blow up the station before the Kai interrupts the whole thing
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Mar 16, 2021 02:24
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MikeJF posted:I assume the Standby/Overdrive were the Transwarp Drive status messages. Big Mean Jerk posted:Scotty sabotaged the Excelsior by replacing the main computer with an Amiga emulator. Star Trek 3 predates the Amiga!  Pastamania posted:I love this about 80's Science Fiction. It also predates EGA!
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Mar 16, 2021 02:29
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm not even going to mention the episode where Kira and Jake get possessed by a prophet and a Pah Wraith and almost blow up the station before the Kai interrupts the whole thing
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Mar 16, 2021 02:45
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Holy gently caress I almost forgot that episode somehow, Dukat as Jim Jones was absolutely incredible, Dukattown on Empok Nor. Cucking his follower by fathering mixed race baby, then he immediately tries to murder her through the air lock right after she just covered for him in front of everyone. Shoulda been Thot Dukat  I laughed so hard when camera pans to Jake possessed by pah wraith. Absolutely bonkers episode really. knox fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 03:05
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They write offhand references to the atrocities of the occupation, but the show never goes deep and direct on it, so it's easy to forget about. There's a lot of background details that get offhand mentions that never have an impact on anything in the show and the writers themselves often seem to forget about them. That kinda leaves Dukat free to hover in an uncertain skeevy area where you don't really know what to think, sometimes he's an antagonist, sometimes he's lending a helping hand that the main characters begrudgingly accept. I think the writers themselves kinda didn't know where they were going with him until they got there. He reached his darkest point when he started a cult and tried to kill them all to preserve his own dignity, and after that he was just a cartoon villain. Axe-man posted:Yeah, even early on, it is very clear without dukat saying the half truths and half "we should work together to get along" every single chance he has to take back power he does without any question. It never was about anything but his pursue of power, and later on his daughter. Well, we are told that Cardassians really really value their offscreen families, and offscreen Dukat gave up a lot and took a lot of poo poo back on Cardassia for acknowledging and not murdering his daughter, so he cared enough about her to do that. I can also understand him being frustrated that he really gets nothing out of that sacrifice, especially since Cardassian society doesn't look fondly on any rebellion, including a child not doing what their parent wants. I don't think Ziyal is obligated to him, but I understand why he thinks she would be. I don't think the showrunners really cared very much about her either aside from her tangential relations with the characters around her, and she didn't get much to do and got recast twice
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Mar 16, 2021 03:07
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