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orangelex44 posted:A lot of people think winning is fun though Don't you get the rewards for that mode, win or lose? I can understand not having fun winning in a regular game (although even then, I have a friend who only cares about winning and gets angry if we don't win, seemingly having no fun with any other part of the game and I just don't get it), but that mode is essentially just a goofy arcade mode right?
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Mar 15, 2021 16:01
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Because 90% of loses are because of idiotic teammates who think charging in 1v3 is a good idea.
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Mar 15, 2021 16:24
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Macaluso posted:Don't you get the rewards for that mode, win or lose? I can understand not having fun winning in a regular game (although even then, I have a friend who only cares about winning and gets angry if we don't win, seemingly having no fun with any other part of the game and I just don't get it), but that mode is essentially just a goofy arcade mode right? Depends on the person (as you've already noted). Some people go into ARAM because it's quicker, or because it's what their friends are doing, or they don't want to worry about drafting as much - it's not "goofy arcade" mode for everyone.
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Mar 15, 2021 18:14
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I feel like I am missing something with Tyreal. He doesn't seem to do anything too great. He feels more like a healer/support than a tank.
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Mar 15, 2021 18:55
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:ARAM is all about taking a set of random character selections and using them to create a balanced team comp. Did that with 3 Novas and *almost* won. We used her beam ult to slowly destroy all the enemy buildings. Enemy team had to use their Falstead to suicide fly to our core and cheese it over and over to win.
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Mar 15, 2021 19:20
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Mesadoram posted:I feel like I am missing something with Tyreal. He doesn't seem to do anything too great. He feels more like a healer/support than a tank. Tyreal is the healer/support Tank, yes. He does a little bit of everything and very heavily relies on being in the right place at the right time. He's easily the strongest tank in the game in the right hands and the right situation, but that requires an experienced player and a coordinated team.
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Mar 15, 2021 19:59
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Kith posted:Tyreal is the healer/support Tank, yes. He does a little bit of everything and very heavily relies on being in the right place at the right time. He's easily the strongest tank in the game in the right hands and the right situation, but that requires an experienced player and a coordinated team. I can totally see how he can be powerful. That heal/shield is fantastic. I am thinking more about it and I feel like he is just not my style of game play. I love Varian, the Butcher, Gazlowe and heroes that are aggressive. I am a little rusty too so that might have something to do with it...
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Mar 15, 2021 21:57
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Mesadoram posted:I can totally see how he can be powerful. That heal/shield is fantastic. I am thinking more about it and I feel like he is just not my style of game play. I love Varian, the Butcher, Gazlowe and heroes that are aggressive. I am a little rusty too so that might have something to do with it... Tyrael can play sort of like a melee assassin if you take all his autoattack talents and Judgment at level 10. Throw your sword in a safe place so you have an easy escape, ult into the enemy team while shielding and raking them for a bunch of crit damage and teleport back out when it looks like you're about to die. Not sure if it's the recent changes or I was just playing him wrong before, but he feels a lot better after the adjustments and his trait isn't complete trash now even though you should still generally avoid dying as much as possible.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:11
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Going trait build tyrael *feeds constantly
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Mar 16, 2021 00:04
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Tyraels damage sucks even if you go all in on it sadly. He is fun to play, I wish I had more chances to feel comfortable playing him though.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:26
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Only time I saw a Tyrael in Ranked was when our friend group played against another group. They cheesed the first fort with his shield and Morales healing him. Cleared them, kept soaking, took camps and 2/3 Garden Terror objectives. Then suddenly at 10: they Medivac'd to our Keep and did the same thing. We ran back, wiped them, but they killed the keep. You know what happened next.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:34
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Nybble posted:Only time I saw a Tyrael in Ranked was when our friend group played against another group. They cheesed the first fort with his shield and Morales healing him. The classic Juice Pirates comp. Hard to defend against if you don't see it coming and can't ban the heroes that make it work ahead of time.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:11
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Tyreal needs a buddy or two who can dive with him to get any real work done. Some of my worst games have been when I've picked him solo into QM and the rest of my team is, like, mages. But on the other hand, when you have the right team comp he feels like the most fun enabler in the game.
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Mar 16, 2021 07:04
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orangelex44 posted:Depends on the person (as you've already noted). Some people go into ARAM because it's quicker, or because it's what their friends are doing, or they don't want to worry about drafting as much - it's not "goofy arcade" mode for everyone. It is goofy arcade mode, and you should play competently while also going ham on whatever gimmicks the game allows you even if they are probably bad This isn't an either/or situation. Single lane empowers a lot of heroes/skills/talents/builds that are not good or situational in a regular match. You can get absolutely stupid with a bunch of heroes/builds and they only work in this game mode. Reach for the heavens. Get dumb as hell. I won a 45 minute ARAM as Nova a while back. It was a very close fight until I finally caught some heroes in back-to-back Precision Strike ults and we pushed all the way to their core and ended before the dead dudes could respawn.
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Mar 16, 2021 08:00
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Kith, please tell me Cho'gall secrets. Not that I particularly play him much, but I am fascinated by what you would have to say about such a weird out there character choice.
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Mar 16, 2021 14:42
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Tyrael can play sort of like a melee assassin if you take all his autoattack talents and Judgment at level 10. Throw your sword in a safe place so you have an easy escape, ult into the enemy team while shielding and raking them for a bunch of crit damage and teleport back out when it looks like you're about to die. Not sure if it's the recent changes or I was just playing him wrong before, but he feels a lot better after the adjustments and his trait isn't complete trash now even though you should still generally avoid dying as much as possible. As a rando once told me, "Dude, he's designed to die."
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Mar 16, 2021 16:04
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Lord_Magmar posted:Kith, please tell me Cho'gall secrets. Not that I particularly play him much, but I am fascinated by what you would have to say about such a weird out there character choice. 1. friendship 2. balls 3. auriel
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Mar 16, 2021 21:55
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Cho: If the enemy team is heroes that want to stand next to you, you go hammer ult and take the level 16 talent that gives you a massive attack speed boost after q. If the enemy team is heroes that don't want to stand next to you, you go upheaval and take the level 16 talent that decreases your ult cooldown every time you basic attack. Gall: if the enemy team is melee heavy go for the orb talents and laugh as you chain stun people at level 16. Otherwise it's a mix of q and e talents. You want shadow bolt volley unless you have a particularly good reason to go twisting nether (if cho is going upheaval/runed gauntlet that's like 75% of a good reason) When you're justifying your twisting nether pick the thing to keep in mind is that you are taking it for the slow while channeling - the damage is fine but if damage is what you want you should pick shadow bolt volley. You need to be getting good value out of the big aoe slow in order for twisting nether to be the better choice ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 23:28
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In all seriousness, Cho'gall is a complicated beast and it's been a long time since I've played either, so my information is very out of date. However, I will do my best to give my thoughts on him when I have time.
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Mar 17, 2021 04:03
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Yeah, at least in terms of the ultimates I’ve always felt they each have a damage ultimate (hammer/volley) and a tank ultimate (upheaval/nether), so I tend to go upheaval every time because I think Cho’Gall is better off leaning towards Tank options than damage options. Especially because Gall already shits out damage by default.
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Mar 17, 2021 04:19
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my feeling is typically the opposite. hammer ult comboes with the consuming flame talents to give cho a lot of self sustain in addition to making GBS threads out a ton of damage, so it's what i always consider the "default" that other build choices have to justify themselves against. hammer gets a knockback + stun for interrupts, peeling, or doing the dash-behind-push-into-team thing, so there's a lot of "tank" utility in that. what i really like about chogall is that between the 4 pairs of 2 and 2 ults, each pairing plays together really well. twisting nether is either something you throw out constantly if cho went upheaval (because runed gauntlet is an absurd talent), or if cho went hammer then being able to teleport him next to enemies and slow them all so they can't get away is really helpful too. similarly, upheaval works as a great setup for shadow bolt volley, or shadow bolt volley is a great way to soften up targets before cho charges in with hammer to quickly finish them off.
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Mar 17, 2021 05:13
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Oh both of Cho’s ultimates are tanking themed, I just think Upheaval is the strongest initiation tool in the game and like doing so as a tank. It feels more like a tank thing to say all of you are now on top of me instead of all of you get away from me. Especially when the Upheaval level 20 is a hard cc at the end of the pull whilst the hammer gives you ranged auto attacks. And of course sometimes you start a fight with punch into consume and when they try to run you upheaval them right back into your second consume. Maybe it’s that Upheaval feels to me like it’s got better utility and initiation/catch than the hammer instead of it being inherently better for tanking. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 05:52
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My default Cho build is melee autoattack. Assuming the enemy doesn't have blinds or all stack physical armor talents, it has the highest DPS output by far. You can beat people into a fine pulp for daring to contest the objective against you. Post level 10 it goes bonkers; you heal while you charge your initiation Q, and once you are in place you have Morales ult level attack speed buff. Take the hammer ult; your Gall should take Twisting Nether to hold people down while you whomp them. Gall should cast it when you initiate, and be ready to pop the damage finisher when a low HP hero starts to limp away from you. As Gall, I really like building for heavy poke damage. You want to soften someone up until Cho can dive and smear them. Save your Shove for retreat. Bomb's Away is a really good talent if you can complete it, but it relies entirely on your Cho to throw those bowling balls the right way. If Cho is bad at aiming the bowling ball, you can't finish the quest and there is nothing you can do to fix that. I've said this before in this thread, but I don't mind playing Cho with some rando being my Gall second head. But I will turn down playing Gall if I don't know the person playing Cho. Being stuck piggyback on a player with no sense of direction, no map awareness, no effort put into position/dodging in teamfights is incredibly unfun.
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Mar 17, 2021 06:34
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playing gall while on an AI cho is a rite of passage
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Mar 17, 2021 07:23
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See I only play the Cho bit. Also the attack build sounds interesting but I just love going on the disruption and tank option, become a mountain of health that sits in the enemy team whilst your brother rips them apart from your shoulder.
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Mar 17, 2021 07:25
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Alright. How Kith Do An Chugel. Disclaimer: I haven't played Cho'gall in over a year, and this is all old knowledge based on my own personal build/playstyle and a quick review of talents. Additionally, this is an "all terrain" build - I'm not making any assumptions about team comp or what have you. Some options may work better based on context (such as Upheaval), but since I cannot know what your teammates are doing, I'm just going to recommend what's best in most situations. Before we get into actual builds, it's important to know that Cho'Gall is secretly a Siege Hero because of Gall's crazy range and damage. Any time you're in a lane, you should be angling to clear waves quickly and get spells cast on structures because that poo poo does work. CHO Your Number 1 Priority is "don't die." However, don't play like a coward either. Stay in range so Gall can do his thing and smash fools with your ogre might, but don't run in and get punked. Use your Q to get into and out of trouble. Double-tap it if you have to - half the time, distance doesn't matter nearly as much as the direction and movement in the moment. For the most part, your Gall will likely keep you going wherever you need to go with a Shove if your initial dash doesn't get you there. Your W is why an autoattack build works in the first place - under the right circumstances, that sustain allows you to pocket healer yourself. It's real nice. Your E should be thrown out constantly because the range is huge and the bomb is a third or more of your Gall's damage. Oh right, tell your Gall to take the Trait. You're only allowed to take the Trait when you're about to get majorly focused or if you're at 30% health or less. Level 1 posted:Consuming Fire Level 4 posted:Uppercut Level 7 posted:Firestarter Level 10 posted:Hammer of Twilight Level 13 posted:Molten Block Level 16 posted:Runic Feedback Level 20 posted:Hour of Twilight GALL Pro: shoot mans Con: no feet :( Your Q is your autoattack. Spam it. Don't miss. Your W is your zoning tool. The targeting is fucky and, for some reason, bound to the closest bounce instead of the middle or furthest. Don't worry about missing it too much, but do try to land it in the general area of your target. Your E is your very large damage, but relies on Cho to put it in place. If they take the rollback talent, they'll probably bitch at you to blow the bomb on the return for some reason. I've never understood why they always demand that, but whatever. Bomb reacharounds for everyone. Your 1 is wards. Use them to ward. Your Z is arguably one of your most important abilities. Do not, under any circumstances, use this to engage or chase. Cho's Number 1 Priority is "don't die", and if you put him in a situation where you cannot help with that, the fault is yours. Anyways, use it to get out of trouble. Level 1 posted:Taskmaster Level 4 posted:Rising Dread Level 7 posted:Double Trouble Level 10 posted:Shadow Bolt Volley Level 13 posted:Twilight Nova Level 16 posted:Leaden Orb Level 20 posted:Shadowfury LEVEL 20 SECRET BONUS ROUND posted:Twilight Frenzy Kith fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 17:22
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Think you misread the level 7 talent, it's only .5 seconds. Otherwise, that's exactly the Gall build I've been stomping with for a while.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:34
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I'll be real every time I've played cho and taken the will of cho it's felt like an absolute throw talent. It takes a long time to complete and +10% hp isnt nearly as valuable as a reward as it sounds like, given how much the consuming flame talent on that same tier will net you in sustain
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Mar 17, 2021 17:40
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ninjewtsu posted:I'll be real every time I've played cho and taken the will of cho it's felt like an absolute throw talent. It takes a long time to complete and +10% hp isnt nearly as valuable as a reward as it sounds like, given how much the consuming flame talent on that same tier will net you in sustain Yeah, especially with the rank 7 talent you get so much more sustain out of your w every time you use it. I've entered fights at half health and left them with 75% just from a good use of w and keeping myself out of aoes. Personally if Cho has Upheaval I think the Twilight ult works really well as a follow up. But Shadowbolt Volley is very much an absurd amount of damage so I cannot fault people for taking it for that alone. The upgrade to twilight is really nice though, both for getting in and out of fights, and yeah the upgrade to Upheaval is brutally monstrously ridiculously good for taking an already horrifying engage tool into the fight winning move every 40 seconds. Which I think is the biggest change for why Upheaval is much better now, it used to be a 60 second cooldown and now it's 40.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:52
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Pedestrian Xing posted:Think you misread the level 7 talent, it's only .5 seconds. Otherwise, that's exactly the Gall build I've been stomping with for a while. The permanent cooldown reduction stacks with the Consuming Blaze cooldown reduction. Or at least, that's how it worked when I last played Gall. ninjewtsu posted:I'll be real every time I've played cho and taken the will of cho it's felt like an absolute throw talent. It takes a long time to complete and +10% hp isnt nearly as valuable as a reward as it sounds like, given how much the consuming flame talent on that same tier will net you in sustain Lord_Magmar posted:Yeah, especially with the rank 7 talent you get so much more sustain out of your w every time you use it. I've entered fights at half health and left them with 75% just from a good use of w and keeping myself out of aoes. Personally if Cho has Upheaval I think the Twilight ult works really well as a follow up. But Shadowbolt Volley is very much an absurd amount of damage so I cannot fault people for taking it for that alone. The last time I played Cho'Gall, there was a quest that made Consuming Blaze heal for more and that was my slam-pick. Like I said in the disclaimer - I'm very out of date when it comes to Cho'Gall. I changed my recommendation after putting a bit more thought into it. Kith fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 17:59
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Kith posted:The last time I played Cho'Gall, there was a quest that made Consuming Blaze heal for more and that was my slam-pick. Like I said in the disclaimer - I'm very out of date when it comes to Cho'Gall. I changed my recommendation after putting a bit more thought into it. Dude I miss that quest so loving much Another big thing I'd say about cho's talents is the level 4 talent searing strikes (or blows or whatever) is really, really good. Just an obscene amount of extra damage from focusing a dude, which combos stupid well with the typical hammer build (it makes gift of c'thun a really high value talent too, the range and slow help you keep hitting the same dude even if they try to run from you. Still play cho like a melee hero, it just gives him a really long arm to hit people with). Honestly even if I go upheaval I still generally prefer searing strikes, just on it's own it's such a high value talent. The heal on q is really nice, though the choice between it and molten block is very real. What it mostly boils down to is the heal is an out of combat sustain - use it between fights or during lulls in the fight to keep the pressure up and not have to waste time hearthing (a bigger deal when you remove 2 people from the board when you hearth). It certainly has mid-combat value but you're basically taking it as an on-demand well, while molten block is an "oh poo poo their team can absolutely gently caress me in half a second if I let them" talent. In theory if you were playing ranked draft molten block is probably the better choice but in the wilds of QM the self heal talent will probably result in more wins. Also it really can't be understated how absurd the level 16 attack speed talent is when combined with searing strikes and the hammer. That's a "I'm pretty sure I out damage butcher" combo
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Mar 17, 2021 18:30
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ninjewtsu posted:Dude I miss that quest so loving much Honestly, I didn't even think of comboing the range of C'thun's Gift with Searing Strikes and Frenzied Fist. Popped into Try Mode and jeez. Still, that takes forever to come online, and I'd be worried about mass CC in the meantime.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:42
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The best part of Cho'gall is playing Gall with one of your friends who doesn't have map awareness and becoming apoplectic as they wander around some side lane as you scream at them to get to the objective
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Mar 17, 2021 18:59
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The thing is those are individually pretty high value talents on their own anyways. You do get messed up by cc a bit but that tends to be the cho'gall experience to begin with. Personally while you recommend having gall's trait active most of the time, I'll usually have cho's trait active 90% of the time and only switch to gall's when he ults or for clearing camps and the such. The extra 25% effective hp from the start of battle really helps you survive through CCs and gives you time to lay down the hurt with your basic attacks
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Mar 17, 2021 19:00
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Just looked up some numbers, and for reference if you hit the same dude 3 times in a row seared flesh is a 60% attack damage increase. Hammer is and extra 25% on top of that. That alone is probably more damage than gall will be putting out if you can keep smacking the same dude. Frenzied fists is a 75% attack speed buff for 5 seconds, which uh, yeah. You dominate fights at 16, and c'thun's gift at 20 helps ensure that the enemy team can't stop you. Tbh Cho'gall struggles in early game no matter what you do anyway so the game plan should already be "get to level 16 win condition and then wreck face"
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Mar 17, 2021 19:09
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I genuinely keep the Gall passive up outside fights and if I start to feel pressured I pull it back.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:16
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Boy I sure do wish QM tried a little harder to make games that weren't the worst thing imaginable.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:19
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Rexicon1 posted:Boy I sure do wish QM tried a little harder to make games that weren't the worst thing imaginable. Have you tried playing Murky
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Mar 18, 2021 00:21
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Macaluso posted:Have you tried playing Murky literally constantly 
Rexicon1 fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 03:06
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woo ee tried playin some falstad, is he just a trash bin hero in QM because every game I just felt like I was zoned out of everything and couldnt do any damage when I had openings. Even with AA build.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:13
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