|
rare Magic card l00k posted:where does the 'important enough' line get drawn, since it's been made? After all, many people would insist that the local police are more important than governors. By the Biden/Cuomo logic, that means the police get to do a little bit of terrible too. It's only fair. It's like a chemistry problem. For example, we just need to find the equilibrium point between homeless-people-fed and children-molested for Catholic priests.
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 10:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:38 |
|
|
Pretty sure police at this point are actively pushing back and threatening officials who dare to actually even suggest reducing their funding or actually prosecuting them for murder or rape.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 11:32
|
|
|
Verus posted:It's like a chemistry problem. For example, we just need to find the equilibrium point between homeless-people-fed and children-molested for Catholic priests. Max Clifford made exactly that argument for his clients
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 13:48
|
|
|
Are you ready to hit rock bottom, thread? https://twitter.com/PoliticsNYnews/status/1371451910058823683?s=20 satan, probably posted:Citing a long history of white woman leveling unfounded charges of Black males ‘reckless eyeballing’ them, a Black female attorney that formerly worked in Governor Andrew Cuomo’s executive chamber and a Harlem lawmaker are questioning the validity and timing of sexual harassment allegations lodged against the governor. This is more brazen, more cynical a move than anything I can recall in recent memory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
Can we formerly ban liberals from mentioning Emmet Till to defend blue sexpests? Especially when said sexpest is a rich white dude?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 15:42
|
|
|
Insanite posted:Are you ready to hit rock bottom, thread? I think this was always the way it was going to go, and even if Cuomo is canned I think this is the sort of thing we can look forward to from here on out: Democrats, in a broad sense, have learned that their voter base responds to that sort of faux-academic "woke" (for lack of a better term) rhetoric that apes the style of progressive critique but not the content, and so they'll use it to their political ends. This is more egregious than they've been in the past, but this sort of framing was leveraged against Bernie, Markey (hilariously and unsuccessfully), Reade, and if you'll recall even against BLM before it became politically infeasible to do so (in that it was largely co-opted by politicians and redirected into painting on roadways or whatever).
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Especially when said sexpest is a rich white dude? Don't worry, Cuomo's got it covered: https://twitter.com/nygovcuomo/status/825819936371142656?lang=en
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 16:37
|
|
|
Insanite posted:Are you ready to hit rock bottom, thread? Yikes. There's a really good nymag article from a few days ago that runs parallel to this, Cuomo's history of employing false feminism as a path to consolidating power (very successfully- at least until now). https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/andrew-cuomo-misconduct-allegations.html
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 17:48
|
|
|
Insanite posted:Are you ready to hit rock bottom, thread? They've already removed that bizarre, disgusting bit of editorializing and added an Editor's Note quote:Editor’s note: After the original version of this story went live Monday morning, we received feedback from readers who suggested that the story sought to discount the allegations made against the governor. It was not the intent of this story, which has nonetheless been revised to further clarify the statements made by Dickens and the source.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 18:07
|
|
|
Not that it matters to the people who just seized upon the vague college story to discredit Reade altogether, but the idea that she knowingly lied about having an undergraduate degree has fallen apart pretty convincingly based on a packet of documents her lawyers have sent the press. (Not that mainstream media will ever offer a correction or report on her again in any way.) Here's a 2001 dated letter from UCSC representing that she has a BA in Political Science:  Here are contemporaneous internal emails from Seattle University that comport with her story about her records:  Here's the certificate of her law degree rendering the entire issue moot:  Whether or not Tara Reade was aware that she may or may not have been a credit short at Antioch University (Antioch has revised its statement from the concrete "She did not graduate" to "We cannot locate the records confirming her degree"), it's certainly within reason that, if she were short a credit, she didn't know due to her application and acceptance into Seattle University's School of Law. Let's review the Times reporting about Reade from June 2020[/quote]. Note that this was not in the Opinion Section. quote:By 2001, Ms. McCabe had enrolled at the Seattle University School of Law, where classmates recall that she struggled with some concepts and sought tutoring. She was so poor she had to borrow law books and occasionally brought her daughter to class when she couldn’t find child care. Her classmate Jenifer Robinson, who now practices law in Seattle, recalled her “heavy, dark sadness” and said it “appeared to be a real, genuine fear and was a huge part of her identity.” This is, at the very least, extremely irresponsible reporting. The first sentence of the bolded section states without qualification that Reade "harbored a secret." The second sentence states as unqualified fact something that is, at the very least, murky. This reporting, which originated on CNN, was used to discredit Tara Reade completely as an accuser. Aside from the fact that it had absolutely nothing to do with her accusations, it also turns out to be generally deceitful. the 2016 lover fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
Its dishonest reporting that's designed to quell unease in people who are extremely concerned about stolen college honor--a big part of the Dem base. Joe Biden's truth problems, meanwhile, were dead and buried.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
Insanite posted:Its dishonest reporting that's designed to quell unease in people who are extremely concerned about stolen college honor--a big part of the Dem base. Biden, famously, dropped out of a presidential race because he lied about graduating in the top half of his class.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 19:17
|
|
|
Ugh not that I ever doubted her or cared about the stupid transcript story, but the fact that the media will never face consequences for their dishonest reporting and the fact that liberals including many here discredited her because of this transcript nonsense is extremely depressing. We were assured that no matter what Trump Must Be Defeated. Now that he has been defeated, it’s reasonable to replace Biden now right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 19:21
|
|
|
the 2016 lover posted:Biden, famously, dropped out of a presidential race because he lied about graduating in the top half of his class. Every now and then, I watch this just for laughs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuAB5MqP0Y It's just so blatant! e: Sadly, the part where Biden talks about "his" coal mining ancestors coming up to play (association) football after 12h shifts is not in that YouTube vid. Insanite fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 19:22
|
|
|
Mind_Taker posted:We were assured that no matter what Trump Must Be Defeated. Now that he has been defeated, it’s reasonable to replace Biden now right? Reasonable to call for his replacement, but I definitely can't see how it would work in practicality. Would you 25th him? Pressure him to resign? I can't see either of those options building up enough support and pressure to actually work. And then there's the knock-on effects from doing so which would, I imagine, be essentially blowing a massive hole in the Democratic agenda in this sliver of a moment where we hold the whole Legislative branch + the Executive. Because, to be clear, a concentrated and serious campaign to remove the sitting President would *end* any legislative progress on anything for who knows how long. That's stuff like a proposed multi-trillion dollar infrastructure bill, H.R. 1, replacing Bryer on the Supreme Court sometime later this year, etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 19:46
|
|
|
How are u posted:Reasonable to call for his replacement, but I definitely can't see how it would work in practicality. Would you 25th him? Pressure him to resign? I can't see either of those options building up enough support and pressure to actually work. Do you think that Cuomo should resign despite his 2021 proposals focused on transforming Manhattan's Midtown West neighborhood, including building a new Port Authority Bus Terminal, rebuilding the state's airports, and improving transportation infrastructure to create jobs, spur economic development and bring existing infrastructure into the 21st century?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 19:58
|
|
|
How are u posted:Reasonable to call for his replacement, but I definitely can't see how it would work in practicality. Would you 25th him? Pressure him to resign? I can't see either of those options building up enough support and pressure to actually work. So when will it be an acceptable time to hold alleged rapists accountable?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:So when will it be an acceptable time to hold alleged rapists accountable? I wasn't commenting on the moral rightness or wrongness of attempting to hold him accountable. I was clearly speculating on the practicality of doing so, what it would look like and how it would work. I think that's an important question to ask, if you actually want to hold him accountable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 20:02
|
|
|
The logical conclusion to How are u’s post is that it will never be the right or practical time to remove a rapist from the presidency if they have a (D) next to their name. I suspected as much, but it’s depressing to read regardless.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 20:04
|
|
|
Mind_Taker posted:The logical conclusion to How are u’s post is that it will never be the right or practical time to remove a rapist from the presidency if they have a (D) next to their name. I suspected as much, but it’s depressing to read regardless. It's not like Republicans don't do the same thing. Evangelicals decided they could sleep at night when it came to Trump's character because he's the chosen one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 20:19
|
|
|
Right, but isn't the whole appeal of the Democrats that they're a morally superior party? I don't expect Republicans to resign in response to bad behavior because they explicitly campaign on being the biggest pieces of poo poo imaginable. Democrats pretend to be better, but when the allegations hit home, there's always some tenuous justification for keeping a monster in power (or nominating one in the first place).
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
How are u posted:I wasn't commenting on the moral rightness or wrongness of attempting to hold him accountable. I was clearly speculating on the practicality of doing so, what it would look like and how it would work. I think that's an important question to ask, if you actually want to hold him accountable. OK then, why do you think that the practicality of holding an alleged rapist accountable is something that should even be considered? To me, nothing would be more damaging to society than perpetuating the message that powerful people are beyond reproach. If you make an exception for this particular rapist because he might also do good things, then it just makes it even harder to remove the next one, and the next one, and so on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
Lester Shy posted:Right, but isn't the whole appeal of the Democrats that they're a morally superior party? Everyone thinks their party is morally superior even when one politician turns out to not be, because people generally hold politics in higher regard than personal morality when casting votes. quote:I don't expect Republicans to resign in response to bad behavior because they explicitly campaign on being the biggest pieces of poo poo imaginable. Democrats pretend to be better, but when the allegations hit home, there's always some tenuous justification for keeping a monster in power. Well, they've begun the process to impeach Cuomo and in current conditions I don't foresee Cuomo running again in 2022 regardless. To make a long story short, it's not a "re-elect Cuomo or maybe never have elections again" scenario.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 21:12
|
|
|
Lester Shy posted:Right, but isn't the whole appeal of the Democrats that they're a morally superior party? Not to me, no. Many of the policies that the Democratic Party has proposed are definitely the morally superior choice compared to those of the Republican Party, to be sure. However, I definitely don't decide which party to support by first asking "who is the most morally superior?" Rather, I look at the policies they're pushing and, unfortunately because of our antiquated political system, have to weigh those against the alternative of Republicans in power.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 21:20
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:OK then, why do you think that the practicality of holding an alleged rapist accountable is something that should even be considered? You're more than welcome to not give a poo poo about practicality or the real-world consequences of proposed actions, but I certainly think it's worth taking into consideration. Like, if you're actually interested in finding a way to remove Biden from office in the real world and not just shouting "he must be removed!" then you're going to have to figure out how to make that happen and that involves considering what the effects of doing so would be. e: I really don't see how saying "OK, Biden must go. How do we do it? What should we expect?" is the same thing as "making an exception for for this particular rapist", as you've implied. How are u fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Mar 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 21:22
|
|
|
How are u posted:Reasonable to call for his replacement, but I definitely can't see how it would work in practicality. Would you 25th him? Pressure him to resign? I can't see either of those options building up enough support and pressure to actually work. "Having to do the most important budget ever" is Cuomo's excuse for not resigning.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
How are u posted:I wasn't commenting on the moral rightness or wrongness of attempting to hold him accountable. I was clearly speculating on the practicality of doing so, what it would look like and how it would work. I think that's an important question to ask, if you actually want to hold him accountable. Who the hell is gonna take these boy scouts on their big camping trip if we fire the child molesting troop leader?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
How are u posted:Not to me, no. Many of the policies that the Democratic Party has proposed are definitely the morally superior choice compared to those of the Republican Party, to be sure. However, I definitely don't decide which party to support by first asking "who is the most morally superior?" Rather, I look at the policies they're pushing and, unfortunately because of our antiquated political system, have to weigh those against the alternative of Republicans in power. But you're making those decisions based on your own morality, your own understanding of right and wrong, good and bad, etc. You might view it as choosing as a faceless gray slate of policies, where the individual politicians are irrelevant, but at the heart you're still making a moral judgement. And unfortunately I don't think most people have divorced the two concepts like you have.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 21:51
|
|
|
Verus posted:Who the hell is gonna take these boy scouts on their big camping trip if we fire the child molesting troop leader? I really don't know what to make of this response. The best that I can figure you are trying to say is: "Biden poses such an imminent threat to ______ that he needs to be removed immediately and the details don't matter." Is that close? If so I'd say sure, I acknowledge your sense of urgency and necessity, so how will we make it happen?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 22:06
|
|
|
How are u posted:I really don't know what to make of this response. The best that I can figure you are trying to say is: "Biden poses such an imminent threat to ______ that he needs to be removed immediately and the details don't matter." Is that close? If so I'd say sure, I acknowledge your sense of urgency and necessity, so how will we make it happen? You and me? We can't. Our elected leaders should but they suck poo poo so this is where we live. With a rapist in the presidency.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 22:14
|
|
|
I watched the 4th & final ep of Allen vs. Farrow last night and a good segment of it was devoted to the press & Hollywood's dismissal of the abuse as "jilted wife goes after one of America's greatest artists." It was interesting to see the parallels between that and the dismissal of Reade's claims by the media & Democrats. At least many people in H'wood ended up taking back their prior defense of Allen, thanks to Dylan Farrow calling out their asses in 2018 after Weinstein's case hit. silicone thrills posted:You and me? We can't. Our elected leaders should but they suck poo poo so this is where we live. With a rapist in the presidency. And a rape apologist waiting in the wings to take over, to boot. I don't think Biden has a prayer of being impeached, but the fact that his presumed successor covered up child-molesting priests as AG should certainly be an argument for her facing primary challengers when her time comes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 22:57
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:I'd argue it wasn't "fully absorbed", most just ignored the details and looked for the first excuse to ignore it entirely, especially because it interfered with the media's "biden is a saint of healing and compassion" narrative It was fully absorbed and voters didn’t buy it. You can argue that’s because society looks the other way for powerful men or that the accuser was lacking credibility or any other reason. You can’t in good faith pretend like Americans didn’t have the opportunity to consider it, soak it in and make a conclusion themselves. They did. It’s completely insane to me that anyone here would be surprised by this at all. No matter how much #metoo has changed the dynamics of society, you’re never going to convince people that all allegations like Reade’s need to be treated as if they’re without a doubt 100% true.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 23:25
|
|
|
Insanite posted:Are you ready to hit rock bottom, thread? I thought I was beyond the point where anything would surprise me but this is so breathtakingly cynical they've proven me wrong
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 00:33
|
|
|
We don't have to discuss the Tara Reade case as a macro issue that is out there that we don't have any control over. We can discuss it through the prism of what happened in these here forums. Even before the latest round of documents came out, it should have been obvious to anyone, anywhere, that discussing Reade's undergraduate education had nothing whatsoever to do with the allegations being made. It wasn't relevant, and even then, there should have been some benefit of the doubt for someone who was potentially going through a domestic abuse situation as she finished her undergrad. Now, of course, we have documentation that she was indeed the victim of horrendous domestic abuse, that any confusion regarding her graduation status was the result of this particular situation, that she indeed had held a faculty position at Antioch, and that there are not and will never be any perjury charges against her. And yet it has been ok, for a year, to accuse her of perjury, frequently with malicious intent. Forget the Joe Biden allegations for a second, just think about how many people in this forum dealt with the horrific domestic abuse that she suffered. How in this, one of the most progressive spaces in the whole of the internet, it has been acceptable to just full on accuse someone of criminality because they may have not handled paperwork correctly in the middle of fleeing for her life. Without there ever being any accountability, any remorse, any reckoning, we just go from "she is a lying perjurer" to "oh, well, what can we do, republicans are bad too." This is a glaring example of rape culture. It's not that people should have foreseen that documents would be made available that showed that any confusion over her graduation status were related to being the victim of domestic violence. It's that she shouldn't have to even produce them in the first place. That's rape culture in a nutshell: even in a forum without any direct incentives one way or the other, it was fine to try to destroy an alleged victim's life, without ever having to face any repercussions or cost. People can make whatever electoral calculus they want, and decided whatever lines they are willing to cross. But let's not pretend that rape culture was just related to people's voting decisions and forget the vociferous, relentless attempts to accuse of criminality someone who is at the very least undoubtedly the victim of horrific domestic abuse.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 00:49
|
|
|
How are u posted:You're more than welcome to not give a poo poo about practicality or the real-world consequences of proposed actions, but I certainly think it's worth taking into consideration. Like, if you're actually interested in finding a way to remove Biden from office in the real world and not just shouting "he must be removed!" then you're going to have to figure out how to make that happen and that involves considering what the effects of doing so would be. You haven't explained why it's relevant to the discussion yet. Why do we need to consider the downsides of removing a rapist from office?
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 01:32
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:You haven't explained why it's relevant to the discussion yet. Why do we need to consider the downsides of removing a rapist from office? The OP who I was responding to originally today asked: Mind_Taker posted:We were assured that no matter what Trump Must Be Defeated. Now that he has been defeated, it’s reasonable to replace Biden now right? And I was responding to that. I'm not interested in your pure-hypothetical question, because I'm only interested in talking about the actual real-world examples of #metoo and misogyny being reckoned with in our politics right now. But sure, in your hypothetical world in which it appears a rapist holds office and there's nothing more to it than that, as you have said, then there are indeed no downsides to removing him or her from office.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 02:05
|
|
|
How are u posted:
That is... not a hypothetical. That is the world you and I both live in. What??
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 02:37
|
|
|
How are u posted:And I was responding to that. I'm not interested in your pure-hypothetical question, because I'm only interested in talking about the actual real-world examples of #metoo and misogyny being reckoned with in our politics right now. Is there any scenario in which Democrats, as the 'good' party, losing political power due to MeToo-style reckoning is acceptable to you?
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
some plague rats posted:That is... not a hypothetical. That is the world you and I both live in. What?? If someone's position is "Biden must be removed", an entirely reasonable position to hold, but they're unwilling to then engage in discussing 1) how we accomplish it and 2) the potential rammifications of both engaging in that process and then succeeding, then they're not engaging with the world as it is. "we should do this!" "Ok, how? what will happen if we do?" "what, you don't want to do it?" If the discussion ends at "Biden must be removed." then there's not really anything else to talk about.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 03:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:38 |
|
|
I mean, ideally, as with any other popular demand it would be expressed by mass protest and direct action that Joe Biden should be removed from office, though if we were truly in the ideal reality the party would act to remove him on their own, or better yet would have blocked his nomination and forced him to step down as soon as the allegations came out. None of that happened or will happen, though, because we live in the poo poo world. If your intent is to drive that point home, I think it’s safe to say we get that, thanks. Biden will go to his grave never facing consequences for this. I don’t get this logic that we have to come to the table with practical solutions to government inaction that we have vanishingly little control over. People say the same thing about the border camps, “what’s your solution?” Why’s it contingent on me to come up with a solution?? I already have a solution, it’s get a bunch of people to stop going to work and start breaking windows until the assholes who can do anything about it listen to us. I also gotta say it chaps my hide to see someone who I know largely for going “I’ve been so impressed with Biden so far and I really have hope for his administration  ” concern trolling about the potential negative legislative consequences of forcing him to step down for being a rapist. Who gives a rip? Harris is already right there waiting for him to get 25th’d anyway lol, it’ll just be a different excuse. Again, let them figure out how to do their loving job while we yell at them and throw poo poo at them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2021 13:05
|
|
