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Chamale posted:Look at the top of this page for an amazing meme dump  whoopswearing this out in public to show i am a member of a rarified brotherhood. 
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Mar 14, 2021 23:25
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Tricky D posted:iirc, corvee systems used such labor as a substitute for taxes in money or kind. corvee laborers were not compensated and still had to independently provide for themselves. The French corvee c. 1790 didn't pay wages but the ancient Sumerian and Egyptian ones absolutely did, at least on clay.
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Mar 14, 2021 23:36
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babypolis posted:seems like a pretty irrelevant distinction tbh. the end result was the same, the worked had to labor for someone else to make a living A wage labourer sells their labour for a living and can (theoretically) choose to whom it's sold, for how much, and for how long. A corvée labourer owes labour to the state and performs it for the state on the days the state dictates and in the manner it dictates.
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Mar 14, 2021 23:39
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what about people who owned copper mines? did they employ wage labor to actually get the copper out of the ground?
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Mar 15, 2021 00:52
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wasn't most of the mining in the ancient world done by slaves because it was so phenomenally dangerous that no one would do it without being literally forced?
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Mar 15, 2021 00:57
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The Sumerians and Egyptians absolutely did have wage labor in their economies, this is well attested, we even know what those wages were at certain points (most famously the Code of Hammurabi, you can see for yourself). They also had corvee and conscription but those are also separable concepts.Azathoth posted:wasn't most of the mining in the ancient world done by slaves because it was so phenomenally dangerous that no one would do it without being literally forced? This varies considerably by time, place, and what you're mining. Iron mining was typically a mix of skilled and unskilled laborers (usually farmers in the off season) in Europe at least, for the Bronze Age the big mines are going to be copper, tin, and precious metals, and I know the precious metal mines were pretty bad in Egypt but not largely staffed by slaves; copper I don't know and as for tin I don't think anybody knows. Premodern the only salt mines I know are China and Rome where that was just a straight up death sentence, salt mining by hand sends you into renal failure really fast, so in China it was basically all prison labor. Tulip has issued a correction as of 01:05 on Mar 15, 2021 |
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Mar 15, 2021 01:00
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Azathoth posted:wasn't most of the mining in the ancient world done by slaves because it was so phenomenally dangerous that no one would do it without being literally forced? no such thing as protective gear back in the day so you inhale massive amounts of toxic dust and before too long your lungs are shot. then you're screwed. really low life expectancy for miners.
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Mar 15, 2021 01:01
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertulla_(wife_of_Crassus) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingelger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulk_I,_Count_of_Anjou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angevin_Empire Former DILF has issued a correction as of 08:16 on Mar 15, 2021 |
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Mar 15, 2021 08:12
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This is like calling Korean syllables, Chinese characters, or monograms single symbols.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:31
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mycomancy posted:Thanks so much for this, as someone not well-versed in socioeconomic world history I struggle trying to explain to others how capitalism wasn't always around and other economic systems existed and bought/sold things without being capitalist. it's part of capital, vol 1, chapter 4.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:08
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fabergay egg posted:it's part of capital, vol 1, chapter 4. Ah thanks, I haven't made it past chapter 2 yet.
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Mar 16, 2021 13:15
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Azathoth posted:wasn't most of the mining in the ancient world done by slaves because it was so phenomenally dangerous that no one would do it without being literally forced? I know after the fall of Jerusalem a majority of surviving Jewish men ended up being sold as slaves for what amounted to a death sentence working in the mines.
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Mar 16, 2021 13:17
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uber_stoat posted:
I would unironically wear that
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Mar 16, 2021 14:23
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fabergay egg posted:it's part of capital, vol 1, chapter 4. Jesus Christ I just finished this chapter and Marx makes so much sense it's a bit disturbing. It's like having blinders taken off my eyes. Imagine if we as a society hid how electricity works, then someone just threw out "read theory loser, look up Coulomb" on a dead gay internet form and now you know that opposite charges attract and from that you get current flow. Absolutely criminal.
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Mar 16, 2021 14:36
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mycomancy posted:Jesus Christ I just finished this chapter and Marx makes so much sense it's a bit disturbing. It's like having blinders taken off my eyes. There's a place for this, and that's the modern history thread Unless Marx is going to be the Bogomils, in an analogy with ancient Christianity, in which case, 
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Mar 16, 2021 18:30
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love the paulicians and bogomils. gently caress cathars and waldensians
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Mar 16, 2021 22:24
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what’s wrong with waldensians??
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Mar 16, 2021 22:26
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https://mobile.twitter.com/CBCWorldNews/status/1371818405251198981
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Mar 17, 2021 08:45
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kewl
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Mar 17, 2021 14:24
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etalian posted:I know after the fall of Jerusalem a majority of surviving Jewish men ended up being sold as slaves for what amounted to a death sentence working in the mines. Not all of them, of course. According to the historian Josephus, one of the Jewish generals was so brilliant and tenacious that the Romans wanted to capture him alive. So after some wacky hijinks the general Josephus managed to surrender and when he was brought before the Roman general he used his skills at prophesy to predict that General Vespatian would become emperor. Once Vespatian became emperor he adopted Josephus into his family and bought him a wife to replace the one stuck in Jerusalem.
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Mar 17, 2021 14:51
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brief point of order since the modern history thread defines "modern" as post napoleon that means anything pre napoleon goes here right https://twitter.com/europaoriental1/status/1372235179574636544
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Mar 18, 2021 05:23
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This thread is only for pre-modern history not pre-napoleonic history.
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Mar 18, 2021 05:58
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get his rear end
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Mar 18, 2021 06:16
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loving kill him
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Mar 18, 2021 06:20
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bbc article on how the british empire drove a cotton species extinct that made the finest muslin fabrics in premodern times
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Mar 18, 2021 06:25
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quote:Dhaka muslin was first showcased in the UK at The Great Exhibition of the Works of Industry of All Nations in 1851. 
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Mar 18, 2021 06:39
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Stairmaster posted:get his rear end Stairmaster posted:loving kill him
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Mar 18, 2021 16:15
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Some Guy TT posted:brief point of order since the modern history thread defines "modern" as post napoleon that means anything pre napoleon goes here right that rules
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Mar 18, 2021 16:20
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ArtifactsHub/status/1372505796110475266 they had necropolises back then?
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Mar 18, 2021 16:24
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the cowardly mods refuse to define what modern is so nothing will stop my napoleon posts https://twitter.com/JFrusci/status/1372581233465655301 probably just the one it doesnt really come up very often
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Mar 18, 2021 17:26
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Some Guy TT posted:the cowardly mods refuse to define what modern is so nothing will stop my napoleon posts It really blows that Napoleon didn't just sink the british isle.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:30
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AnimeIsTrash posted:It really blows that Napoleon didn't just sink the british isle. he had no hope of ever doing that for myriad reasons. he couldn’t even beat them in Egypt
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Mar 18, 2021 18:43
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AnimeIsTrash posted:It really blows that Napoleon didn't just sink the british isle. Britain's naval strategy was unstoppable: 
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Mar 18, 2021 20:19
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speaks most strongly about the english diet
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Mar 18, 2021 20:42
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Real hurthling! posted:speaks most strongly about the english diet napoleon better think twice before he ends up over his head in a country full of people who just poo poo everywhere
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Mar 18, 2021 21:19
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https://twitter.com/trillburne/status/1369821381282705411?s=21
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Mar 18, 2021 21:21
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burchard hunfriding of swabia
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Mar 18, 2021 21:48
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sullat posted:Not all of them, of course. According to the historian Josephus, one of the Jewish generals was so brilliant and tenacious that the Romans wanted to capture him alive. So after some wacky hijinks the general Josephus managed to surrender and when he was brought before the Roman general he used his skills at prophesy to predict that General Vespatian would become emperor. Once Vespatian became emperor he adopted Josephus into his family and bought him a wife to replace the one stuck in Jerusalem. Josephus was captured during the siege of Jotapatat not at Jerusalem. But pretty much all the other high ranking generals of revolt got the classic roman treatment of being kept alive just so they could be executed during the Triumph ceremony. It's still pretty impressive how Josephus used a creative brown nosing strategy to stay alive and avoid the one way trip to the Roman Triumph.
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Mar 18, 2021 21:50
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https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1372656958864560131?s=20
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Mar 18, 2021 23:08
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9 months to clean a itty bitty dagger? smh
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Mar 18, 2021 23:12
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