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Palpek posted:I'm more surprised that they haven't released any free DLC as a show of good will, it would definitely work as an argument against sceptics (like me) and soften the PR blow. Would alternative outfits for important NPCs affect the ongoing work on the fixes? Even if it's "all hands on deck" time right now, it can't be that the same employees working on the technical issues would be implementing assets into the game. The engine was built from scratch so the SDK must have a streamlined way of adding new outfits. Unless it's a sign that nothing beyond basic fixes is planned at this point. I mean it's only been 3 months and the big patch was delayed... also quote:The engine was built from scratch so the SDK must have a streamlined way of adding new outfits.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:26
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v1ld posted:Yorinobu says Johnny's attack was inspiration for bringing down Arasaka from the top in the Hanaka ending. So wouldn't that let you take Johnny's version of events more at face value? except that Johnny's recollection is explicitly wrong, at least in regards to the gamebooks, and in some VERY major ways - the lack of Militech involvement, and the lack of Morgan Blackhand (who led the Militech group and was the one who distracted Blackhand long enough for Rogue and crew to get out). Those are extremely important details that are omitted from his memory, something that leads one to at least believe that if this is Johnny, he has had parts of his memory erased, in particular parts having to do with Militech in the raid. Why would Saburo do something that could be used to destroy the reputation of his biggest competitor? There's literally no reason to take Johnny's memories at face value other than the fact that you have an engram with memories of Johnny Silverhand, but more than a couple of mission point you at the possibility of faking memories and experiences - the politician one for sure, but also the cyberpsycho on the unreality TV show that accepts the plotline as real, and if you hang out and listen to BD chats whenever they come up people (especially Judy) will mention editing BD's to change perspectives, people, and experiences so we know that memory editing is possible. We can't say for sure that it isn't Johnny, even given that canon sources flatly make it all but impossible for Arasaka to have taken him at the bombing, but we do know that the torture scene isn't possible to begin with because Johnny was definitely killed by Smasher before the bombs went off. Even if his memories could be recovered, they couldn't have tortured him in the flesh. We do know that the tower was bombed by Johnny Silverhand, that isn't in doubt. We also know that the details in his memory involve both straight up lies, and lies of omission. At the very least you have to suspect that Johnny has had his memories modified by Arasaka for some purpose (and once again, I can only come back to the idea of absolving themselves of guilt in the bombing). But then the other question arises - if they can peer into Johnny's memories, why not take the swipe at Militech? Why is all the evidence that their biggest enemy (militech) was responsible for the bombs in Araska tower missing? Why give them a clean slate? So I think it logically falls that either a) Johnny's body was handed over later, sometime after Red (2045) and his memories had already been intentionally altered to clear out Militech, or Saburo never had actual Johnny and has effectively used a BD-like editor to create a Johnny construct for purposes unknown.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:45
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To further add to the confusion of the events long ago... If you have Jackie's body sent to anyone other than his mother you'll find that Jackie's engram is in Mikoshi if you take the Devil ending. You can ask Jackie some questions but he starts to go in a sort of loop, and Saburo's engram is definitely much more elaborate and tuned. This implies that someone recently dead can be engrammed to a fair extent with 2077's technology. The fact that Hanako is not above using Saburo's engram to screw over the board means that there's few limits to the kind of perverse objectives Arasaka could have with using engrams to manipulate people. Furthermore, if you go through the terminals on the way to reach Mikoshi you'll find e-mails and research data on subjects from previous attempts in the Secure Your Soul program and how they're still working some kinks out with some pretty clinical, cold deaths implied. There are imperfections and limits to the technology we are not fully aware of yet as players which should make any and all engrams not considered full reproductions of the human being they're based upon.
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Mar 16, 2021 21:26
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necrobobsledder posted:To further add to the confusion of the events long ago... Holy poo poo, had no idea. Between this and what TheAnomaly posted above you, I can see there's a lot more going on than the surface I saw. Time to open that Humble Bundle of all the sourcebooks I purchased but never looked at. Which of them would cover the events leading up to Johnny v Arasaka and the followup? E: So in the endings where Alt incorporates the other engrams, Jackie would also be "freed"? Neat. v1ld fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 21:32
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So anyhow, that huge data leak from a while back, has it leaked further by now, beyond that mysterious buyer? It surely has to contain information about upcoming DLC, or things like design docs.
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Mar 16, 2021 21:43
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v1ld posted:Random cool bit from the endings: In the Hanaka ending you wake up and see Saburo speaking from Yorinobu's body on TV - which immediately brought to mind Hanaka telling you twice at least to not touch a hair on Yorinobu's body. Horrifying realization of how meticulously planned that was and horror at Yorinobu's fate. I'm still taking Johnny's memories a bit more face value than some, and I take Alt's claim that Johnny's memory in flat wrong with a grain of salt. I suspect a bit of digital he said/she said may be there. But the discussion is interesting. The idea that Sanuro created the Johnny engram from whole cloth is speculation itself but fun.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:03
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v1ld posted:Holy poo poo, had no idea. Between this and what TheAnomaly posted above you, I can see there's a lot more going on than the surface I saw. On mobile, so please forgive the double post. On the other hand, Jackie's engram is damaged and limited because it was taken from a corpse.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:06
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Palpek posted:I'm more surprised that they haven't released any free DLC as a show of good will, it would definitely work as an argument against sceptics (like me) and soften the PR blow. Would alternative outfits for important NPCs affect the ongoing work on the fixes? Even if it's "all hands on deck" time right now, it can't be that the same employees working on the technical issues would be implementing assets into the game. The engine was built from scratch so the SDK must have a streamlined way of adding new outfits. Unless it's a sign that nothing beyond basic fixes is planned at this point. Judging by the roadmap they are about half a centimetre or a quarter inch past due for something. Wait a second... Oh gently caress I wasn't looking at at full resolution. Yeah ok, at this point they're a full two inches behind schedule.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:22
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Palpek posted:Even if it's "all hands on deck" time right now, it can't be that the same employees working on the technical issues would be implementing assets into the game. Given what we know thus far about how badly CDPR handled project management on CP2077, I don't think we can safely make that assumption. quote:Unless it's a sign that nothing beyond basic fixes is planned at this point. Again, my view is that for CDPR to be doing any DLC or expansion packs when the base game is still buggier than poo poo (and still not available for sale on the PS Store, which is an issue that I'm guessing 99.9% of their effort is going towards desperately trying to resolve) is like building an addition onto your house when the main part of it is a blazing inferno.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:31
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Assets isn't code isn't assets. Graphics designers aren't coders and vice versa (well, quest designers maybe, with what internal scripting engine). Why is this always a debate?
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Mar 16, 2021 22:37
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Combat Pretzel posted:Assets isn't code isn't assets. Graphics designers aren't coders and vice versa (well, quest designers maybe, with what internal scripting engine). Why is this always a debate? TW3 had quite a few fixes including an alternative movement option going on all the while extra assets were being constnatly added. But I dunno, maybe behind the scenes Cyberpunk is technically such a mess that adding new assets breaks everything. After all you can't change your character or modify cars in-game for some reason, maybe a technical one.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:51
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The in-game character design customization thing is likely just something that got cut because of a lack of time. People have been quick with futzing savegame files to change things, so it should be doable during runtime. As far as car customization goes, that'll be more interesting. The last time I looked at archive dumps, it seems like for instance the clothing variants are just presets and not just modular items (e.g. a combination of model and shader/texture created at runtime). If that applies to cars, too, any customizations would be just presets. --edit: To be honest, I expected more of this game, given all the focus on character customization. Clothing items should have been modular with user assignable shaders. Pick a jacket, select zebra hide body, clear PVC sleeves, gold trim, presto. Or some poo poo like that. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 23:04
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I'll definitely concede that CDPR isn't likely thrusting people from one role into a completely different role like people passing buckets of water in a chain to fight a fire. But I still maintain that their primary focus is (or at least, it should be) fixing the base game before doing any DLC or whatever. Even from an optics perspective it'd look bad and they'd get absolutely dragged on Twitter etc. with calls to to fix the base game first. And considering they're losing money every day the game isn't available on the PS Store, that's definitely got to be their primary focus at the moment.
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Mar 16, 2021 23:25
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Yeah, given that this game is still de-released from the second-biggest platform months after it came out, I've got to figure every warm body is being thrown onto trying to do something about that before anything else. Graphic artists can't work on free bonus costume DLC when they're trying to make all the clothing look good at 256x256 texture resolution since that's all that can be supported to get a consistent 30fps on the base model PS4.
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Mar 17, 2021 00:00
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Filox posted:On mobile, so please forgive the double post. On the other hand, Jackie's engram is damaged and limited because it was taken from a corpse. Then Saburo's engram would have the same limitations. I think what happened is that Jackie's engram was created with the commercial version of "Secure your Soul", or Relic 1.0. While Saburo's digital ghost was created using 2.0. https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Relic
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Mar 17, 2021 00:28
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Hammerstein posted:Then Saburo's engram would have the same limitations. And Arasaka would have worked a lot harder on a working engram of the founder. Of course all this is fifty years after Johnny, which makes me suspect that Johnny's memory of his death is accurate, at least in the game. Creating a working engram from scraps and nothing would probably be a bigger task than getting a good engram from a guy who died minutes ago. As for Johnny being a chip based AI, doubtful, since the vending machine turns out to be not be an actual AI on account of lack of processing power in such a small device. And a vending machine is huge compared to the size of the Relic. Which begs the question of how they can store an entire human mind on a single chip, or why V doesn't hold out harder for Brendan's sentience.
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Mar 17, 2021 00:44
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Re: Johnny I mean, isn't it possible that the Johnny memory thing is because he's an incredibly self-centered egomaniac, he's often intoxicated, and people's memories are unreliable in the first place? I feel like it would be better writing if this was the case, since it builds Johnny's personality traits as they are established throughout the game, while Johnny's memories having been edited feels irrelevant to the story and him being a "fake" version not captured from the real Johnny undermines a bunch of character development. It feels much better to me if the inconsistencies in Johnny's recollection of the raid on Arasaka is because he perceives it to be his raid and his rivalry with Adam Smasher.
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Mar 17, 2021 01:41
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I think it was mentioned before, but the entire company would be frozen by this data leak. Until their info streams are rebuilt and data can be shared securely again, then it would take potentially months for anything major to start being produced. The way people posted about this kind of thing when it happened makes it just a touch more inhibitive sounding that some of the more recent posts seem to assume.
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Mar 17, 2021 01:44
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Roshnak posted:Re: Johnny I mean, isn't it possible that the Johnny memory thing is because he's an incredibly self-centered egomaniac, he's often intoxicated, and people's memories are unreliable in the first place? That makes more sense to me than some of the theories that have been bouncing around and it fits his personality and the attitudes of his old friends. As for the difference between Jackie and Saburo, Jackie died in the car, his body was either taken to Vic's or left in the car and recovered by Arasaka an indeterminate time later; could have been hours. With Sabruo, Trauma Team was on site in less than two minutes. The time could have made all the difference in the quality of post-mortem engrams Filox fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 01:54
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Filox posted:And Arasaka would have worked a lot harder on a working engram of the founder. Of course all this is fifty years after Johnny, which makes me suspect that Johnny's memory of his death is accurate, at least in the game. Creating a working engram from scraps and nothing would probably be a bigger task than getting a good engram from a guy who died minutes ago. As for Johnny being a chip based AI, doubtful, since the vending machine turns out to be not be an actual AI on account of lack of processing power in such a small device. And a vending machine is huge compared to the size of the Relic. The Arasaka biochip doesn't contain a human mind, it contains the tools and instructions to replicate one by modifying another human brain. You're Johnny's processor, not the little glowy red thing in your skull, which is where your entire problem comes from.
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Mar 17, 2021 01:56
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Combat Pretzel posted:The in-game character design customization thing is likely just something that got cut because of a lack of time. People have been quick with futzing savegame files to change things, so it should be doable during runtime. It seems almost silly that they have a spot in your cyberware for armor, but then decided to tie it to the clothes in the game. I ignored armor through both my playthroughs because I'd rather look like an arcade carpet exploded onto a person than take an extra 1/8th of a hit or whatever armor actually did in the game. Also I downloaded a mod that lets you change what your cars look like and it's fantastic. I can finally tool around on a blue Nazare and or in a targa topped Shion whenever I want and it rules.
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Mar 17, 2021 04:22
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Darth Walrus posted:The Arasaka biochip doesn't contain a human mind, it contains the tools and instructions to replicate one by modifying another human brain. You're Johnny's processor, not the little glowy red thing in your skull, which is where your entire problem comes from. sorta. i don't think it would have fully taken over if if he hadnt gotten basicaly killed, because the second he flatlined, the chip saw him as empty meat and made him alive again but as a vessel for johnny its sorta like that doctor who episode with the gas mask kid. kid dies in the blitzs and nanobots from a alien crashed ship bring the kid back as is including thinking the gas mask is part of his face. so it it infects others in an attempt to cure them.
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Mar 17, 2021 04:39
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Dapper_Swindler posted:sorta. i don't think it would have fully taken over if if he hadnt gotten basicaly killed, because the second he flatlined, the chip saw him as empty meat and made him alive again but as a vessel for johnny its sorta like that doctor who episode with the gas mask kid. kid dies in the blitzs and nanobots from a alien crashed ship bring the kid back as is including thinking the gas mask is part of his face. so it it infects others in an attempt to cure them. I mean, that doesn't contradict what I said. The Relic was designed to be installed in corpses, using the raw material of a dead brain to create a replica of a dead soul. Death is its standard activation trigger, meaning that Johnny could have woken up in Jackie's body (possibly alongside the remnants of Jackie himself) if you'd left the chip in. Incidentally, I believe the Devil ending mentions that Saburo had his engram made before he died, which would confirm that the original Johnny and your Johnny are two different people - with proper refinement of the process, it is possible for both a copy and an original to exist simultaneously.
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Mar 17, 2021 04:55
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There's a lot that's confusing about the relic and transfer into it or Mikoshi. Are engrams digital data? I assumed as much from them being on a chip or from the AIs running on digital computers and seemingly the equivalent of a human mind in every way if not superior. But the implications if they are digital and can be transferred/copied with no loss in fidelity are tremendous. You could then run multiple copies of yourself - to someone as controlling as Saburo is said to be by Hanako, that would be tremendously appealing. Hanako pulls out a physical block after the Saburo conversation to take him along to the board meeting. Is the implication that's the only copy of Saburo and he has to be slotted in like some gameboy cartridge to run on Mikoshi? Mikoshi: is it a computer that can run the engrams as code? Assume so, since we see Saburo at least being able to be fully present in two scenes without a body. Then are all the other people stored in it awake too? How does Alt remove the other engrams from Mikoshi? Does she just do a copy and delete of engram data, give them computing space to run on or is there more to it?
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Mar 17, 2021 05:17
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v1ld posted:
I assume, given how the Relic otherwise works, that the block is what Saburo's engram runs on in a limited capacity. The biochip is like a disc you insert into a computer - it contains data, but is incapable of independently making that data do anything without being hooked up to a machine sufficiently powerful to support a sapient being. As for limitations, the big one seems to be compatibility. Saburo was only able to slot into and take over Yorinobu so easily because they're close family. Bodies for engrams are otherwise hard to come by and unreliable, and Saburo seems like the sort of guy who'd be far from keen on having multiple imperfect copies of himself running around. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 05:28
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Palpek posted:I'm more surprised that they haven't released any free DLC as a show of good will, it would definitely work as an argument against sceptics (like me) and soften the PR blow. Would alternative outfits for important NPCs affect the ongoing work on the fixes? Even if it's "all hands on deck" time right now, it can't be that the same employees working on the technical issues would be implementing assets into the game. The engine was built from scratch so the SDK must have a streamlined way of adding new outfits. Unless it's a sign that nothing beyond basic fixes is planned at this point. What we know: -The roadmap promises "free DLC" this year -There was a lot of content that got cut to make the release date -A very important lore character is weirdly absent and the PNP's creator has suggested this is not an accident Based on all that I'd guess the "free DLC" means some of the cut content was close enough to completion to be worth finishing and patching into the game, and paid DLC is going to be Blackhand-centric, but I'm just speculating and so is everyone else, especially given what a saga the game's development has been
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Mar 17, 2021 05:31
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Palpek posted:I'm more surprised that they haven't released any free DLC as a show of good will, it would definitely work as an argument against sceptics (like me) and soften the PR blow. Would alternative outfits for important NPCs affect the ongoing work on the fixes? Even if it's "all hands on deck" time right now, it can't be that the same employees working on the technical issues would be implementing assets into the game. The engine was built from scratch so the SDK must have a streamlined way of adding new outfits. Unless it's a sign that nothing beyond basic fixes is planned at this point. 'hey here are some new jackets in the game you can't play on ps4'
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Mar 17, 2021 07:23
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At this point, releasing free DLC for this severely busted-rear end game would feel less like a show of good will and more like a slap in the face, honestly
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Mar 17, 2021 08:42
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Palpek posted:Wait, which Keanu movies exist in the CP universe? The collapse happens in the 90s, but historical events start diverging wildly in the late 80s, so I sort of assume that maybe Point Break or MOPI is the last Keanu movie shared between universes. I haven't really thought that hard about it, it's mostly just a lark to make the lyric canon, obviously. 
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Mar 17, 2021 12:20
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But then who would have noticed his resemblence to Silverhand when bearded Keanu look wasn't known yet?  Poor dude at least got to play in Bill & Ted.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:04
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In that timeline Bill & Ted would have been a B movie and “too naively positive.” Also, who knows what would have happened to him by the end of the 2nd and 3rd corporate war? Maybe he literally became cyberpunk John Wick?
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Mar 17, 2021 17:47
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Johnny Silverhand in the 2020s looks a lot like Keanu Reeves in the 2020s. And "Johnny SIlverhand" is obviously an assumed name, I don't think his real name is ever given. So, maybe he doesn't just look like Keanu...
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Mar 17, 2021 17:59
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2house2fly posted:Johnny Silverhand in the 2020s looks a lot like Keanu Reeves in the 2020s. And "Johnny SIlverhand" is obviously an assumed name, I don't think his real name is ever given. So, maybe he doesn't just look like Keanu... 
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Mar 17, 2021 18:41
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2house2fly posted:Johnny Silverhand in the 2020s looks a lot like Keanu Reeves in the 2020s. And "Johnny SIlverhand" is obviously an assumed name, I don't think his real name is ever given. So, maybe he doesn't just look like Keanu... His real name can be seen on a computer screen in the flashback where Alt gets abducted by Arasaka agents, when he's patched up at the ripperdoc. It's Robert John Linder.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:06
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during the creation of bill and ted's excellent adventure they were loving around with actual time travel tech stolen from jpl and accidentally created two seperate timelines. so cyberpunk takes place in an alternate timeline in which it was alex winter, not keanu reeves, who went on to star in point break and my own private idaho before being largely forgotten due to various enviropolitical catastrophes. keanu decided to focus on music instead and ended up changing his name.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:49
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Sydney Bottocks posted:At this point, releasing free DLC for this severely busted-rear end game would feel less like a show of good will and more like a slap in the face, honestly This I really hope they sort the game out because I would love to return to it in a more complete form. DLC would be nice but only if it came with a load of fixes and even improvements to the main game. If you had told me a year ago that I would be enjoying a random viking / mincraft game over Cyberpunk 
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Mar 17, 2021 21:21
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2house2fly posted:Johnny Silverhand in the 2020s looks a lot like Keanu Reeves in the 2020s. And "Johnny SIlverhand" is obviously an assumed name, I don't think his real name is ever given. So, maybe he doesn't just look like Keanu... There we have it. The perfect compromise! Keanu living in obscurity, even in a fictional universe, just didn't feel right.
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Mar 17, 2021 21:37
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I stopped playing cause I was having controller problems. Now that my new controller has arrived I'm not sure if I'm gonna continue right away, or wait for the maybe-never-coming next patch.
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Mar 17, 2021 21:42
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Luckily we can wait for the big patch while replaying Disco Elysium with full voice acting later this month.
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Mar 17, 2021 22:13
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Palpek posted:Luckily we can wait for the big patch while replaying Disco Elysium with full voice acting later this month. Eh, I always get stuck in that game where i can't progress forward without dying, so I'm okay not playing that.
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Mar 17, 2021 23:38
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