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MikeCrotch posted:Isn't the power checked at the point of resolution? For example with something like Basalt Ravager if you play it by itself and it's killed in response to it's ETB trigger, it will do no damage. Basalt Ravager, unlike the Yeti, doesn't deal damage based on a property of Basalt Ravager.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:17
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Shrecknet posted:Happy #MAR17LAGE day everyone! Today we celebrate Dumb Combo Finishers, so post yours! 
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Mar 17, 2021 15:31
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MikeCrotch posted:Isn't the power checked at the point of resolution? For example with something like Basalt Ravager if you play it by itself and it's killed in response to it's ETB trigger, it will do no damage. It is, but to get that information the game will use the last known information if the permanent is no longer on the battlefield. If it worked the way you think it does Fling would always deal 0 damage because the creature is never in play when it goes onto the stack.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:34
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VictualSquid posted:When Archfiend’s Vessel enters the battlefield, if it entered from your graveyard or you cast it from your graveyard, exile it. If you do, create a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying. this has tripped me up before with zareth, when i was hopeful that stealing their archfiend from their graveyard would give me a 5/5 token and remove it from the game it does not, which is very annoying
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Mar 17, 2021 15:37
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HootTheOwl posted:It is, but to get that information the game will use the last known information if the permanent is no longer on the battlefield. If it worked the way you think it does Fling would always deal 0 damage because the creature is never in play when it goes onto the stack. Fling is my favourite combo finisher. That and flayer of the hardbound/lotleth giant in manaless dredge.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:42
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Shrecknet posted:Happy #MAR17LAGE day everyone! Today we celebrate Dumb Combo Finishers, so post yours! Phyrexian Dreadnought / Eater of Days. The combo is torpor orb. Or a time machine to when the only kill spell was Abrupt decay. Take your turns. I dare you.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:50
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my fav combo is using bolt to kill my opponent
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Mar 17, 2021 16:06
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I have fond memories of arguing with my friends in 1995 over whether this was a Ninja Turtle or not
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Mar 17, 2021 16:07
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why is this artifact poly? no judging, love is love, just confused
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Mar 17, 2021 16:15
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HootTheOwl posted:It is, but to get that information the game will use the last known information if the permanent is no longer on the battlefield. If it worked the way you think it does Fling would always deal 0 damage because the creature is never in play when it goes onto the stack. Good point!
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Mar 17, 2021 16:25
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Dias posted:why is this artifact poly? no judging, love is love, just confused For some reason in Alpha and Beta they didn't want to say "tap" in the rules text of artifacts and instead had "mono" and "poly" artifacts. Mono Artifact means the ability on it requires tapping, Poly Artifact means the ability does not require tapping so you can use it multiple times in a turn. One of the many weirdnesses of old templating.    
Entropic fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 16:31
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Entropic posted:For some reason in Alpha and Beta they didn't want to say "tap" in the rules text of artifacts and instead had "mono" and "poly" artifacts. Huh, I guess that's one way of expressing that difference. The more you know.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:37
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Oh and I forgot there were also "Continuous Artifacts" which just means it has a continuous effect on it (and the rules actually went back and forth for a while on whether it worked while the artifact was tapped ). There was a point when you could draw an extra card for yourself from Howling Mine, then tap it with your Icy Manipulator on your opponent's upkeep to prevent them drawing a card from it.  The reminder text on the Beta printing of Icy is, I think, meant to remind players that like, if you tap your opponent's LLanowar Elves with your Icy that doesn't mean they get a green mana.  The variations in early templating and reminder text are wild.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:42
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Howling mine still works like that for some reason.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:11
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Dysgenesis posted:Howling mine still works like that for some reason. Yeah, a few cards got functional errata to keep that interaction when they killed the "artifacts don't work if they're tapped" rule, but others randomly didn't. So Howling mine now turns off if it's tapped but e.g. Black Vise doesn't.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:31
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Dysgenesis posted:Howling mine still works like that for some reason. its because when they changed the rule, they had functional errata to add it to the rules text of all "old" artifacts. then when they realized functional errata was dumb, they undid it. however, some old cards had already been reprinted with the new functional errata and so removing that text would itself be functional errata, so they didn't and the last printed version controls, which has a "except when this is tapped" so now, old artifacts turn off when tapped if and only if they happened to be reprinted during a specific timeframe
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Mar 17, 2021 17:34
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And Winter Orb, where they thought it would be cool to add back the tapped clause when they reprinted it ~19 years later.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:40
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"reading the card explains the card"* *Offer not valid prior to
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Mar 17, 2021 17:42
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PW targeting change was after 2016 right? Oh wait and then there was the Companion change. Though someone will probably interject to tell me that the words on the card aren't actually on the card in that case.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:47
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Shrecknet posted:Happy #MAR17LAGE day everyone! Today we celebrate Dumb Combo Finishers, so post yours!  (after drawing 20 cards with Nefarious Lich and Words of Worship. This was my gimmick FNM deck for a while)
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Mar 17, 2021 19:05
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Shrecknet posted:Happy #MAR17LAGE day everyone! Today we celebrate Dumb Combo Finishers, so post yours! Mortal Combat on the field, Conspiracy on Spirit, crack Emergence Zone to cast Iname, Death Aspect at opponent's EOT to dump every creature in your library into your yard, win on upkeep
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Mar 17, 2021 20:13
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Making sure I'm not insane - A 3/3 Stonecoil Serpent blocking at 3/3 Brushfire Elemental should result in just the Elemental dying, right? Stonecoil has protection from multicolored. I just had that exchange happen on Arena and both creatures died.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:50
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Crackbone posted:Making sure I'm not insane -
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Mar 17, 2021 20:51
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Crackbone posted:Making sure I'm not insane - Stomp e: yeah or QB
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Mar 17, 2021 20:51
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That makes sense, thanks. Sweet god Bonecrusher Giant is a stupid card.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:55
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You're not the first to ask about the interaction - it would be nice if there was some kind of Narset-style visual that popped up when it was relevant (certainly for QB, not sure how it would work for stomp).
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Mar 17, 2021 20:56
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Stomp has an emblem-like that pops up for the rest of the turn. Could put the red rings on there.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:59
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resistentialism posted:Stomp has an emblem-like that pops up for the rest of the turn. Could put the red rings on there. I lost a game last night because my opponent and I both forgot about it and they fogged and I attack the planeswalker rather than attacking them directly.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:20
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I forgot how Death's Shadow wins half it's games because people gently caress up the combat math and think it'll die blocking every time.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:50
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Salvor_Hardin posted:
I had the same combo at the time but with Overgrown Estate in place of Words of Worship 
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Mar 18, 2021 02:06
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ran into bant fog control in the historic ladder and I just have to ask... why? He wasn’t running turbo fog, only the amonkhet one and tamiyo to rebuy, and he was otherwise a blue white control deck with less countermagic and alrund’s epiphany as a “finisher” (heavy scare quotes there).
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Mar 18, 2021 04:44
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can't help but appreciate the short mtg-related videos MTGRemy keeps putting out. They're just delightfully dorky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtEvc3Nyink
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Mar 18, 2021 05:15
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The World Inferno posted:can't help but appreciate the short mtg-related videos MTGRemy keeps putting out. They're just delightfully dorky. They are great. The parody songs are also great. Highly targeted humour is good if it lands (no pun intended).
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Mar 18, 2021 06:22
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HootTheOwl posted:I forgot how Death's Shadow wins half it's games because people gently caress up the combat math and think it'll die blocking every time. This, like the fact that a 2/3 Goyf will not die to Bolt if it's the first instant that will go to the graveyard, has nothing to do with "combat math". Players know that their opponent will take damage. They just don't know that due to some arcane rule (as if anyone can truly explain state-based actions), this changes Shadow's toughness before it would die. That's rules knowledge. It's an arbitrary rule that makes no loving sense from an outside perspective. If all damage happens at the same time, Shadow should die. If a spell resolves while Tarmogoyf is 2/3, it should die. I know why both of these interactions work the way they do, but that doesn't change the fact that they're absolutely unintuitive and post ~2017 WotC probably would have just changed the rules prior to printing the card. I will die on this hill. Don't @ me
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Mar 18, 2021 12:44
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Katana Gomai posted:This, like the fact that a 2/3 Goyf will not die to Bolt if it's the first instant that will go to the graveyard, has nothing to do with "combat math". Players know that their opponent will take damage. They just don't know that due to some arcane rule (as if anyone can truly explain state-based actions), this changes Shadow's toughness before it would die. That's rules knowledge. My shadow being bigger because you dealt damage to me is 100% combat math, and it's different from goyf which I agree is bad and should be changed. Goyf does a weird thing with burn spells, and won't grow in the combat step if another creature dies. Because unlike shadow burn spells have a secret line of text that says "Burn doesn't actually kill a creature until after this spell resolves and SBA are checked" where as Shadow at no point was ever marked with damage equal to or greater than it's toughness. In shadow's case you're always calculating toughness and then checking how much damage is marked on it. And your point that WotC would change it post 2017 is undercut by the card printed in 2020, Scourge of the Skyclaves. HootTheOwl fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 12:56
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My favourite interaction along those lines is that if you Bolt a Dryad Militant, your bolt gets exiled, but if you Fatal Push it your push goes to the graveyard.
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Mar 18, 2021 13:03
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Jabor posted:My favourite interaction along those lines is that if you Bolt a Dryad Militant, your bolt gets exiled, but if you Fatal Push it your push goes to the graveyard. If we're talking silly interactions my personal pet peeve will always be land subtype changing removing abilities from lands. My favorite dumb one is that if you steal a creature and give it to yourself (Bazaar trader) you are now it's controller forever.
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Mar 18, 2021 13:10
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Jabor posted:My favourite interaction along those lines is that if you Bolt a Dryad Militant, your bolt gets exiled, but if you Fatal Push it your push goes to the graveyard. ....I can't understand why that would happen.
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Mar 18, 2021 13:12
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GoutPatrol posted:....I can't understand why that would happen. If you Push it, it's dead, leaves play, then Push finishes resolving and goes to the graveyard. If you Bolt it, it has 3 damage marked on it, then Bolt finishes resolving and gets exiled. Then the Militant dies because it has lethal damage on it.
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Mar 18, 2021 13:16
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HootTheOwl posted:My shadow being bigger because you dealt damage to me is 100% combat math It is, and it isn't. IMHO It depends on your opponent's understanding of the rules. Damage does not kill creatures (SBAs do), but the amount of MTG players who understand that is far below 100%. If your opponent is not one of them, they will see that your (say) 3/3 Shadow takes 3 damage and dies, even while you're taking player damage, too, because "all combat damage happens at the same time, right?". If anything, they might get into an argument about what "at the same time" means re:the damage you have taken. To me, it's only about combat math if they actually gently caress up their combat math, e.g. they think your Shadow will get 2 extra toughness but it ends up being 3 due to a lord effect or whatever on the creature attacking you. HootTheOwl posted:And your point that WotC would change it post 2017 is undercut by the card printed in 2020, Scourge of the Skyclaves. Fair point. Cards certainly haven't gotten simpler lately. Katana Gomai fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 13:18
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