|
What if we just moved into the house on closing day whether she is or not still there, is that a thing we can do just like "hi, guess we're your new roommates, this is our loud baby, her bedroom's right next to yours. what's that, she's crying? Yeah, babies do that. So, when you moving out?"
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 20:02 |
|
|
loquacius posted:the lawyer we hired has my wife tearing her hair out over the fact that there's a tenant living there Because this is a huge and unacceptable risk if you want to occupy the residence. If the owners can't get her out BEFORE signing a contract move on to another place. Or just accept the risk that you start out your ownership playing cash for keys/eviction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
loquacius posted:What if we just moved into the house on closing day whether she is or not still there, is that a thing we can do You are buying a property subject to a lease, with whatever contract rights and obligations are associated with that. Unless it is a weird lease, it will survive the sale and the tenant will likely have rights of exclusive use and quiet enjoyment to the real property while the lease is in force.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:06
|
|
|
crazypeltast52 posted:You are buying a property subject to a lease, with whatever contract rights and obligations are associated with that. According to the lawyer, sale to a new owner who intends to occupy the property themselves is grounds for eviction in New Jersey, which is good in theory but once again does not necessarily translate to a house for us to move into because of how long eviction takes especially in the COVID era It sucks, this was a good house but unless I hear some like phenomenally good news from the meeting the sellers and the tenant are having sometime today we might have to back out
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
the sellers are immigrants who came to America for a tech job in NJ, got another one in Texas, put their house up for sale and rent simultaneously in 2019, found a renter first, and are now deciding the market is good enough for them to just sell They, in other words, are also not professional landlords, which is why they tried to sell a house with an ongoing lease, but our lawyer is furious that their listing agent didn't know enough to stop them
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
loquacius posted:the sellers are immigrants who came to America for a tech job in NJ, got another one in Texas, put their house up for sale and rent simultaneously in 2019, found a renter first, and are now deciding the market is good enough for them to just sell How does that sellers being immigrants have anything to do with anything you wrote?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:23
|
|
|
laxbro posted:How does that sellers being immigrants have anything to do with anything you wrote? because it helps explain why they moved out of their house in the time frame they did, one part of America is as good as another etc It's not relevant to the sale specifically I guess, I don't attach a stigma to it or anything, sorry to offend
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:27
|
|
|
Sounds like you're gonna be living in a short term apartment for 3-9 months. Don't be a dick to the tenant as they can drag out eviction proceedings through the court and cost you a ton of money. Best case scenario is that you don't renew their lease and they're out within 30 days of the lease ending Re: nice furniture, wife had some extra money and we ordered a bunch of stuff from a combination of west elm, pottery barn, cb2 etc. These are all owned by online retail giant you might have forgotten about, williams sonoma Williams sonoma makes pretty ok furniture but, each brand has their own store card, and the points don't stack. Also each brand, even though they share call centers and a corporate parent for the entire digital age, so you can't coordinate orders, deliveries, returns etc. That means a seperate 1 hour on hold time for each return or warranty issue, or checking status on order etc. Also seperate shipping companies and chain of custody of the furniture etc, scheduling delivery via loading dock etc etc Also we bought some welded steel frame stuff from them, two of them weren't square, which is impressive because welders use big magnetic squares, which would imply they got bent in transit? And then another piece had a glass top which was too big/cut wrong TL;DR we had a 27% rejection rate of williams sonoma built furniture, do not recommend
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:33
|
|
|
That’s a good point, your mortgage is probably going to require owner occupancy within a certain timeframe if it is a standard residential mortgage, so another point for moving on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:38
|
|
|
Oooh that's tough. IDK about NJ but in my state, I'm pretty sure you can't even sell if you have an active lease unless the buyer agrees to take on the tenant (not a LL-T lawyer but that's my general understanding). I'd assume NJ is probably as tenant-friendly or close, at least. Your best bet is having the current owner and tenant sign an agreement, or betting on the goodwill of all parties. Our current landlords moved us month-to-month at the end of our lease last year likely because of this very issue--their dad, the owner, was in his 90s and in assisted living during COVID and I don't think they wanted to be stuck with another yearlong lease. So they're going to get their money without paying exorbitant taxes, a new owner will get this large beautiful fixer, and we'll get our little townhouse that we can enjoy with hot clear-running water on demand, appliances that don't leak, and no loving gophers. Thanks for the furniture recs. I don't think we're going to be buying furniture from crate & barrel or the like, but we'll be getting some flatware and dishes and stuff. We're getting our bed from Article (which may be similar to C+B but we are in love with the frame we picked out), guest bed a custom-built murphy bed, dining table from a woodworker on Etsy, and couch from (probably) Lovesac. We'll hit up local antique shops for anything else we need. We scored a large Arthur Umanoff wine rack for something like $1200 less than what you'd pay new, and based off my searches of similar, I'm fairly certain it's one of a kind or something close. Edit: I lied, it's not one of a kind, but it's pretty rare. $3600 on this site and we got it for $650 and it's my absolute favorite thing we own: https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/d.../id-f_22935512/ E2: we got conditional approval today, they just need the HR director at my old job to verify past employment, which should happen today. They are not required to close until the 29th, but things are trucking along pretty quick. Anyone here ever had COE early? Maggie Fletcher fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:43
|
|
|
loquacius posted:What if we just moved into the house on closing day whether she is or not still there, is that a thing we can do The tenant will call the police and you will be arrested. You are trying to kick someone out of their home. Even if it's by mutual agreement, it's still a big life event for the tenant. Have some empathy and, if you don't, buy a different property. You can be mad at the seller, the sellers agent, your agent, and then yourself in that order. You can't be mad at the tenant, who presumably has a legal agreement to occupy the home in question.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:46
|
|
|
Yeah at the end of the day, legal occupancy of a home, especially as a primary residence, is generally well protected by law. Shelter is right up there with national security that is a core tenet of government. Forcing them out of their home isn't going to end well for your wallet Google "ellis act San Francisco" just to get a taste of the poo poo storm you just waded into Keep us updated   
Hadlock fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Mar 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:53
|
|
|
Tezer posted:The tenant will call the police and you will be arrested. that was not a serious question  I don't want to make the tenant couch-surf with her family for months (we know for a fact she has kids and grandkids who don't live on the property), but I also don't want to make my wife and child couch-surf with our families for months. "Buy a different property" is definitely how this is leaning. If you can't tell from the rest of my posts, I'm mostly mad at the sellers' agent for wasting my loving time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
for further emphasis, the contract is still under attorney review and either side can still back out for any reason (this counts as a reason)
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
One of the houses we looked at had a (legal) in-law apartment that was occupied by a slightly crazy chain-smoking old man on Section 8. The guy was an old friend of the owner (who was basically subsidizing his existence), and the owner definitely understood why we might not want to keep him as a tenant, so I don’t think getting rid of him before closing would have been an issue, but it was a very off-putting complicating aspect of that house among many (even so, still would have bought it if my husband didn’t viscerally hate it). Still though, not as tricky because the tenant resided in a separate unit, not the entire house (the main issue with it was that the unit didn’t have its own point of entry so tenant had to be able to access the main house to get to the unit).
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
Tezer posted:The tenant will call the police and you will be arrested. Tezer posted:You are trying to kick someone out of their home. Even if it's by mutual agreement, it's still a big life event for the tenant. Have some empathy and, if you don't, buy a different property. Tezer posted:You can be mad at the seller, the sellers agent, your agent, and then yourself in that order. You can't be mad at the tenant, who presumably has a legal agreement to occupy the home in question.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 18:59
|
|
|
Look at it from the tenants point of view, they signed a lease with the landlord and then they sold the place before the lease ends. That doesn't nullify the legal contract they signed to have a place to live. You have to evict them via that owner process which sounds like an enormous pain in the rear end from your point of view and might take as long as the lease is for anyway considering the pandemic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
loquacius posted:So, this past weekend my wife and I got an offer accepted on a house, but the lawyer we hired has my wife tearing her hair out over the fact that there's a tenant living there Unless you intend to keep that tenant, run. The fact that they were not forthcoming, or unable to answer, the very basic question of "When does the lease end" means you're in for a bad time. Evictions are difficult, bordering on impossible right now. Consider this. She doesn't leave at closing. You likely have to live in the residence because the mortgage requires it. She decides to not pay rent. You could be looking at someone living in your home with you for a year+ while it gets sorted, for free. Additionally, she could do any damage or any other non-physical harm undesirable thing and you still couldn't get rid of her. Then you get to be part of a long, lengthy legal battle in which you have to pay a lawyer up front to MAYBE get some of your damages, excluding whatever you paid the lawyer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:If the tenant agreed to leave and then recanted, especially without paying, they're an rear end in a top hat. I think it's ok to be an rear end in a top hat if the alternative is being kicked out of your home before you legally have to leave
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
PokeJoe posted:I think it's ok to be an rear end in a top hat if the alternative is being kicked out of your home before you legally have to leave
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:04
|
|
|
I don't really disagree if they offered to leave, but there's no benefit to them making that agreement without someone offering to buy out their lease. the ops question of "what if I just do a breaking and entering" is very telling how much he would respect the tenants right to be there via their lease so he should just keep looking
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
That's the problem, the agreement is there but there's no contract binding it, and with no contract it's looking like there's no sale because I'm not paying for a house I can't live in for three months on top of not having any house at all for one month and there's nothing stopping that from happening if I pull the trigger here
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
I'm sorry I made that joke, I guess, I'm just really exasperated that this house was marketed to me as a place I could put my family but it turns out that someone else might be living there for god knows what amount of time after the 60-day closing period ends and there's pretty much nothing to be done about it after I went through all this time and emotional investment to get even that far Luckily if I back out there's no money on the table yet, apart from what we have to pay the lawyer, which he has earned thoroughly
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:11
|
|
|
PokeJoe posted:I don't really disagree if they offered to leave, but there's no benefit to them making that agreement without someone offering to buy out their lease. the ops question of "what if I just do a breaking and entering" is very telling how much he would respect the tenants right to be there via their lease so he should just keep looking Making lovely assumptions about people who ask valid questions in this thread deprives us of interesting content and discussions and creates an overall negative attitude.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:13
|
|
|
Yeah, that's super frustrating. I feel like that should've been in the disclosures prior to your making an offer. That is very odd. Glad you can back out now, but it just sucks because you have to start back almost at zero. This is gonna probably end up on the seller, unless they can find a buyer whose mortgage doesn't require occupancy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
Tricky Ed posted:This sink? It's called an apron sink or (more commonly) a farmhouse sink. It's very much a "now" look and will probably be out of date fairly soon, but on the other hand it's not anti-functional like so many other trends (looking at you, open shelving) so it's hopefully not going to be a sign for immediate gutting 10 years from now. The disadvantage to a farmhouse sink is that they sit approximately 2 inches lower than the standard counter height. For both tall people and short people this can end up being a pain, but YMMV. Additionally, higher chance for the faucet to splatter more due to this height difference. The advantage to them is that they are big and have a lot of space.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:Let's assume good will unless proven otherwise. I'm assuming loquacius was making an off-color joke out of annoyance at the situation and not actually planning on carrying out the absurd suggestion. loquacius posted:I'm sorry I made that joke, I guess, I'm just really exasperated that this house was marketed to me as a place I could put my family but it turns out that someone else might be living there for god knows what amount of time after the 60-day closing period ends and there's pretty much nothing to be done about it after I went through all this time and emotional investment to get even that far Yeah I don't mean to drill down on you because you really were just misled into a lovely situation. I think you have a right to be upset at multiple people in this situation but the existing tenant has the least power of the bunch. The sellers and their agents lied to you or are too misinformed to do their jobs correctly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:17
|
|
|
The seller should be dealing with it. With the aforementioned house with the in-law unit, my dad advised that any agreement that put the burden on the buyer to deal with the tenant was unacceptable and it was the seller’s responsibility to deliver a vacant house. Moot because we didn’t buy that house, but still. At least the owner was up front about his tenant situation. Seriously, gently caress the seller for not having the situation with the tenant sorted out and gently caress the listing agent for not being forthcoming. Best case scenario is the seller successfully bribes the tenant to leave before closing, but short of that happening I dunno.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:21
|
|
|
loquacius posted:that was not a serious question Fair enough. People tend to get really bad advice when it comes to landlord/tenant stuff, and it can end in a world of hurt for everyone. I think that's why there are a couple of people, myself included, in this thread being very blunt about how your situation could unfold. You were joking, but a lot of people who talk about 'self help' evictions actually think they are a real thing and are surprised when they find themselves in trouble.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:22
|
|
|
There's a non zero chance the tenant was supposed to be out last fall and hasn't been paying rent since before the house was listed for to covid stuff + eviction moratoriums etc. There's a good chance you won't get any rent from them before July, and may never recover all of your losses "I don't know how much longer the tenant is supposed to be in there" reads a lot like "don't tell me what you found on the inspection report and why you're backing out of the deal, I want plausible deniability". Once they provide you with a written rental contract, they'll probably have to provide it to anyone else. Any sane person would want to see when the contract goes month to month. If it's already month to month and they're trying to sell it and haven't evicted the tenant yet, it's pretty likely not a good situation for the current out future landlord. Either there's a signed standard rental contract, or it's a verbal month to month, if they can't tell you that much you probably don't want to know Pull the ripcord, this deal is done Hadlock fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Mar 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 19:37
|
|
|
Is it normal to pay the appraisal fee through lender before you've even seen the home inspection reports? This Sebonic lender is being REALLY loving PUSHY. Our closing date is 4/29. We locked in the rate on Monday. Husband's email: "Thanks for all your help. Inspections are happening this week and early next week - I'd like to wait to pay the appraisal fee until after we receive the reports. We expect to have the reports shortly thereafter. Any issues with this? Cheers." Lender's response: "Yes serious issues. You are talking about delaying the loan and up to a full week? You would be forcing me to work with a severe handicap to make the closing date on time. I have been down this road many times. The realtors will begin calling and threatening that they will pull the plug, what is wrong with my company why are we not closing on time, what is wrong with me, etc etc . I would really like to avoid that stress if at all possible. Honestly I refuse to work under that pressure. The loan will just sit without the appraisal being paid. I am sorry I can not continue to work on this loan if you are going to wait for a week to pay the appraisal. I understand your position but you have to understand mine. This is your first purchase and this is not mine . I know what is going to happen. So please LMK what you would like to do. "
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 20:05
|
|
|
Holy what, drop that lender like a hot potato. Fill out a new app pronto. My closing date is 4/30 and my lender (Redfin Mortgage) is strongly discouraging me from paying for / ordering the appraisal until the A/I period is complete, which includes both sides agreeing on a resolution to the inspection report (in my state). Another anecdote: One lender I got quotes from before Redfin got very upset with me on the phone, taking a personally offended and angry tone, when I asked them to take a look at a competitor loan estimate to see what they could do. Dropped them quick, it was one of the most unprofessional interactions I've ever had. If you want suggestions other than what bankrate.com will throw at you, I got quotes from Redfin Mortgage and Better.com, both were competitive quotes right in line with each other. They may not be available in your state though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
amethystbliss posted:Is it normal to pay the appraisal fee through lender before you've even seen the home inspection reports? This Sebonic lender is being REALLY loving PUSHY. Our closing date is 4/29. We locked in the rate on Monday. Edit: Should also clarify we were on an expedited closing timeline to make our offer competitive so that may not be the norm. Either way, I don't trust the response from the lender to your question. PageMaster fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Mar 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
amethystbliss posted:I understand your position but you have to understand mine. This is your first purchase and this is not mine . This screams red flag to me, someone who knows very little about your initial question.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
amethystbliss posted:Is it normal to pay the appraisal fee through lender before you've even seen the home inspection reports? This Sebonic lender is being REALLY loving PUSHY. Our closing date is 4/29. We locked in the rate on Monday. Talk to your realtor about this. In parts of the country it is normal to pay for an appraisal upfront, so it is scheduled, and there is a lot of demand for appraisers and not paying could delay everything. In other areas you don't pay for the appraisal directly, it is accounted for at closing and the lender floats it. And in a lot of parts of the country 45 day closings are tight and hard to make, in others 21 day closings are common and expected, and you could even switch lenders 14 days before closing and close on time. Also even if you pay now, or agree to pay in many cases you can cancel and get the money back if you do it x days before the appraisal happens.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
loquacius posted:What if we just moved into the house on closing day whether she is or not still there, is that a thing we can do Most likely the tenants would call the police and you would be removed as a trespasser. Or the tenant could talk to a lawyer and sue you for an illegal constructive eviction. Buying a home, and an owner move in being grounds for eviction doesn't mean you can violate the lease or evict the tenant without going through the courts, the tenant still has exclusive use of the property if the owner changes. Also for those not familiar with NJ, there is effectively no such thing as a lease end date. The current owner can't end the current tenants month to month lease or evict them except for good cause. Selling their home, or planning on selling it is not a good cause(but the new owners move in is). Your attorney should have explained this better. The options are hope the tenant just moves out voluntarily or cash for keys to have them out by closing. Or give 2 months notice to terminate the lease starting the first of the month after you close, then pursue an eviction after they don't move. So more like 4-5 months realistically if they don't leave on their own. The sellers attorney/seller would generally not agree to provide a vacant home unless the tenant accepts a cash for keys offer, and your lender is probably not going to be ok with this if you can't occupy the home within 60 days.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 21:02
|
|
|
Update for anyone who was interested in this drama: our intel that the tenant was going to try to buy a condo came from the sellers' agent, but apparently the tenant never actually told the sellers this, their agent just told them today, and they're mad at the tenant because they think it's gonna gently caress up the sale due to probably taking longer than the closing period From my end of course the sale was probably hosed up regardless because even if she was just renting again I have no assurance she'll have finished that process by closing either but this is still a good sign in that it lights a fire under the sellers' rear end to get their poo poo together. Either way I'm not signing another sheet of paper until this is resolved. Our agent apparently wants to try to get some kind of deal figured out where we still get to shop for houses but get first dibs on this one if they get the tenancy issue resolved (ie we put down a deposit but get it back if we find a better house before the tenant moves out). I don't know if that's actually a thing, but she's gonna talk to our lawyer I guess??? loquacius fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Mar 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
I sure don't trust any handshake deal between these people any more than I did this morning, I can tell you that much
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
Shame the seller agent publicly, fire your agent and move on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 22:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 20:02 |
|
|
Ugh. If paying for appraisal was required beforehand then fine, but the guy could communicate that much more professionally. This is the second gross interaction we've had with him. I was so excited by their low rate compared to the other lenders we've already ruled out, so it's frustrating to feel back at square one. Went on better.com and also back to Chase, both of whom will match or come very close to the Sebonic offer. I can't wait to tell this guy to gently caress off.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2021 22:36
|
|