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Russian Bear posted:Does Honda do demo events? Yeah, they recently did one for the Rebel 1100. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THmvFVEHKP8 Edit: That was for media. I'm now guessing that you meant for regular folks. If that's the case, then please change my answer to "I have no idea". Edit 2: Oh, jeez, top of page. For content, my first bike was a Honda Rebel 500. I live in the US, so I didn't need to start on smaller bikes. The 500 is great for beginners as it has no frills and isn't very fast, but is light enough to be easily controllable and short enough that anyone can comfortably flat foot it. It can cruise at highway speeds no problem, but will take a bit in getting up to them. I would solidly endorse it as a good bike for a new rider. The Sex Cannon fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 02:59
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How important is ABS for a first bike? I've been scouring the used market near me and while there are a lot of 300-500cc bikes in my price range, none of them are ABS models as far as I can tell. Related: how bad of a decision is a 2014 NC700 in immaculate condition for $4500 with crash bars/paniers included? I've come to terms with being the most boring person alive if that helps.
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Mar 14, 2021 19:33
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People have been learning without ABS for a long time, however for someone who may not have the instincts to apply the brakes evenly in an emergency situation it could be the difference between stopping and testing your bike’s ejection seat. I tripped ABS twice in 2020. I’ll never know whether either would have resulted in a face full of asphalt but I’m glad I had it.
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Mar 14, 2021 19:47
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Spiggy posted:How important is ABS for a first bike? I've been scouring the used market near me and while there are a lot of 300-500cc bikes in my price range, none of them are ABS models as far as I can tell. 125CC is best to learn on. Maybe 250CC or 300CC if you're in America and find it hard to find 125CC bikes. Do not buy a 700CC as a first bike.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:11
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Spiggy posted:How important is ABS for a first bike? I've been scouring the used market near me and while there are a lot of 300-500cc bikes in my price range, none of them are ABS models as far as I can tell. The NC700 wouldn’t be the worst decision you could make nor the worst first bike, but I don’t think it’s a great decision. One observation from my brief experience with one: they are utterly smooth and quiet, and there is zero sensation of speed, so you will find yourself going pretty drat fast without realizing it. Additionally, learning to ride a traditional manual only bike is important for overall moto skills. Doesn’t necessarily have to be your first bike, but going from a DCT/auto to a manual after you’ve
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Mar 14, 2021 20:16
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Is there a good guide for swapping to non-ABS? I am contemplating getting a winter bike for cheap and that rules out ABS.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:19
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Braking technique should not be different between abs and non-abs bikes. ABS is a tool to keep you less dead in an oh poo poo moment. So no, it’s not that you have to learn new skills per se, but that on a non-abs bike it is more critical that you have good braking technique. You ought to be able to perform an emergency stop with any brake system in any vehicle. Learn to do hard braking drills. Start in a parking lot with good runout or on a flat straight stretch of road. Start at 10 mph and brake with the front only as hard as you are comfortable. Do it again until your total distance from brakes applied to complete stop gets as short as possible. Add 5-10 mph to your start speed. Get up to 30-35 mph and keep doing it until you are routinely stopping in the shortest distance you can. On most bikes the back wheel will start to come up before the front wheel locks, at least on dry pavement. Grip the tanks with your knees and keep a bit of weight on your feet. Learn what it takes to lock up the rear brake. Same thing, start at 10 mph and see how hard you can brake with the rear until it locks. Don’t push those drills much past 15-20, because it won’t take much to get sideways, panic and let go, and highside. Repeat often. HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 20:25
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:Additionally, learning to ride a traditional manual only bike is important for overall moto skills. Doesn’t necessarily have to be your first bike, but going from a DCT/auto to a manual after you’ve The listing said manual under the transmission catagory and there was not mention of DCT, but looking closer yep there's no clutch. I might want a DCT Goldwing down the line but was planning already on starting with a traditional gear set.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:33
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The advice in the first post, despite being a few years out of date, is still mostly true. Get something in the 250-400cc range. Smaller is fine in Europe where 50 miles is an overnight trip, but in the USA a 125 is really just a city bike. If you can get ABS you should, as it's a safety feature, but I would not jump to a 700cc motorcycle with a DCT just to get it. If you can't find any Ninjas 300 with ABS, that's fine, just get a regular one and moderate your braking the way every motorcyclist in history has had to until the last 5-10 years. As noted above, ABS shouldn't change anything about how you operate the brakes. You can just haul on the lever every time until the system kicks in but that's stupid. Learn how to perform maximum-effective-braking without locking the wheels, bringing the brakes in smoothly and purposefully. That skill is important on every motorcycle. The ABS is just there in reserve to maybe save you from dumping the bike in the edge cases where you didn't notice a patch of sand or whatever. SEKCobra posted:Is there a good guide for swapping to non-ABS? I am contemplating getting a winter bike for cheap and that rules out ABS. Pull the ABS pump fuse. e: oh, you mean like a rider's guide? Uhhh well if you are currently riding around without causing the ABS system to kick in, you're doing fine, just keep doing that. If the ABS system is kicking in regularly, go and retake the MSF course and ask the instructors to help you with threshold braking. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 20:43
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SEKCobra posted:Is there a good guide for swapping to non-ABS? I am contemplating getting a winter bike for cheap and that rules out ABS. Dirt bike. Spiggy posted:The listing said manual under the transmission catagory and there was not mention of DCT, but looking closer yep there's no clutch. I might want a DCT Goldwing down the line but was planning already on starting with a traditional gear set. I'll add some nuance to what others have said: the NC700 is a perfectly good learner bike on paper (slow, friendly tame engine, totally neutral ergos and handling) but IRL it's really more of a really conservative second bike (for people who have given up on life). For a learner bike it is large, heavy, the tyres are far too wide, the chassis gives zero feedback and responds extremely badly if you make a dumb mistake because it's a floppy heavy tall bike with rubbish suspension yet deceptively fat and grippy tyres. Just get a ninja 300 or r3 or similar, don't fret about ABS, focus on getting the best tyres (the bike WILL have poo poo tyres) and riding gear you can.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:56
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Slavvy are Pirelli basically your preferred tire in every (street) segment? I guess really I’m only thinking about sport touring type and aggressive sport/canyon/light track categories.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:16
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Slavvy posted:focus on getting the best tyres (the bike WILL have poo poo tyres) and riding gear you can. So loving true. My Honda 125 has these utterly poo poo Conti Go! tyres which are basically circular Teflon. Shoulda changed them out on Day 1 but I didn't know better. Now I'm just going to sell it and the tyres are no longer going to be my problem (they've got loads of tread left, not like I'm selling bald, illegal tyres, they're just slippery as hell in the wet, which in Scotland is a lot of the time)!
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Mar 14, 2021 21:20
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TheBacon posted:Slavvy are Pirelli basically your preferred tire in every (street) segment? I guess really I’m only thinking about sport touring type and aggressive sport/canyon/light track categories. Yep, they are the best tarmac tyres IMO, feel free to fight me. I draw the line at scorpions though as pirelli don't seem to make very good dirty bike tyres. Also it's quite clear that bridgestone are on the same level, but I prefer the pirelli carcass feel. Steakandchips posted:So loving true. The only crash I've ever had that I blame on the tyres was on my CBR125 (I had been riding for 7 years at this point, it was my second bike) with those exact contigo shitters. Riding along in a straight line in the rain, hit a very slight depression and the front just instantly collapsed noprisoners style. Later I decided I would take the bike into the hills for a proper thrash and discovered that those tyres feel like they're always cold and gripless, until they suddenly overheat and the bike gets enormously nervous and scratchy. No tyre pressure or suspension settings would alleviate the problem, and switching to different tyres fixed everything, so I reckon contigos are just loving terrible tyres. Continental in general make good tyres, but only in the top half of the product range, all the small bike stuff is just bakelite with treads drawn on. Best tyre for a small bike? Naturally it's pirelli sport demon or bridgestone battleaxe.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:32
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I don't think I've ever ridden on anything as confidence inspiring as pirelli angel GT 2s, I'll almost certainly get them again when they wear out (around 8k miles so far, lots of life yet) and I ride fairly aggressively on heavy bike
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Mar 14, 2021 21:44
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Slavvy posted:The only crash I've ever had that I blame on the tyres was on my CBR125 (I had been riding for 7 years at this point, it was my second bike) with those exact contigo shitters. Riding along in a straight line in the rain, hit a very slight depression and the front just instantly collapsed noprisoners style. They really are utter trash. I don't understand why Honda put them on their 125s. What's really annoying is Continental know how to make good grippy as gently caress tyres in small sizes, even for bicycles (Continental Grand Prix 4 Seasons are super grippy on bicycles). Why sell such a shitass product as the Go!s?
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Mar 14, 2021 21:47
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I mean, it's a bike built in Malaysia that retails for $3500, the fact that it's a Honda at all is miraculous. Gotta save money somewhere.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:54
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I guess so... Maybe I should warn the next owner to change out the tyres (after money has changed hands)...
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Mar 14, 2021 21:56
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Steakandchips posted:I guess so... Maybe I should warn the next owner to change out the tyres (after money has changed hands)... Answer any questions truthfully, give up nothing voluntarily, receive money, say goodbye, nothing more.
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Mar 14, 2021 22:01
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I wouldn't recommend a 125 to learn on, if you are in Europe or the USA. You can go on the highway with them, but it makes it unnecessarily hard to merge in faster traffic. Top speeds are between 100km/h and 120km/h in general. Unless you get one of those crazy two stroke things. Learner bikes here have always been either 25kw or 35kw. Anything between 25hp and 50hp should be fine, perhaps maybe for those race replicas. There's this new 11kw class (mostly 125cc's) but that class only exists for the sake of european bureaucracy because some other countries allow car drivers to ride an 125 on their car license. Re: ABS Get it if you can afford it. Don't fret if you can't. While it absolutely is a very good system, and it saves people from a crash, with proper tires you have a decent amount of grip even in the wet. But if you don't have ABS, really continue those braking exercises like HenryJLittlefinger says. I once attracted the attention of a cop, when i was testing grip levels on a rainy day on a highway off ramp lol.
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Mar 14, 2021 22:14
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I got new pants yesterday (instead of over pants) and what a difference! Also started to internalize how to roll on the throttle in a corner and figuring out how to corner. Riding is fun!
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Mar 15, 2021 00:53
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Passed my MSF  I had someone offer me a '78 CB550K as a starter bike for low $3k - yes/no/maybe?
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Mar 18, 2021 01:46
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Generally a new rider is better served buying the newest used beginner bike they can afford rather than something vintage, on the principle that you want to spend all your time riding rather than wrenching and waiting for parts.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:53
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Also it's very likely that any modern bike, even a learner bike, is going to handle way better thanks to 40 years of chassis, brake, ergonomic, electronic and suspension development which are all good things to have when you are learning to ride.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:13
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T-Shaped posted:Passed my MSF Too expensive, even if it's running. I spent 600 dollars on my (beat up, but intact) '71 350. You must be at least twice as excited by fixing the motorcycle as riding the motorcycle in order to get a vintage bike as your first. And don't get one that isn't already running. I did but I don't recommend it. Carth Dookie posted:Also it's very likely that any modern bike, even a learner bike, is going to handle way better thanks to 40 years of chassis, brake, ergonomic, electronic and suspension development which are all good things to have when you are learning to ride. This too. Though honestly the Ninja 250 is technologically indistinguishable from something built 40 years ago and it's only recently that the little bikes have started getting stuff like fuel injection and ABS. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 02:32
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T-Shaped posted:Passed my MSF No
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Mar 18, 2021 02:34
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Sagebrush posted:Too expensive, even if it's running. I spent 600 dollars on my (beat up, but intact) '71 350. Gotcha, felt like used prices have been funky lately as I've been scanning the past few months. I'm up for wrenching, my brain just keeps going back and forth wanting to play with everything at the same time. I've seen TU250X's go by, but $3k used still seems a bit high for those used too. I tried a newer Rebel 300 for my 2nd day of MSF, and I didn't like it nearly as much as the TU250x - it almost felt like my tuckus was too low if anything else for being on the tall side. EDIT: And it seems like the general mood is "Don't touch Royal Enfield, even the new stuff even though the three-year warranty" still holds true too, right?
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Mar 18, 2021 02:39
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Sagebrush posted:This too. Though honestly the Ninja 250 is technologically indistinguishable from something built 40 years ago and it's only recently that the little bikes have started getting stuff like fuel injection and ABS. I'd argue the ergos alone would be worth the difference. T-Shaped posted:EDIT: And it seems like the general mood is "Don't touch Royal Enfield, even the new stuff even though the three-year warranty" still holds true too, right? Not even with someone else's money.
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Mar 18, 2021 02:44
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T-Shaped posted:Passed my MSF Congrats! This is a terrible idea
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Mar 18, 2021 02:46
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Carth Dookie posted:Not even with someone else's money. Dumb question: Why? I feel like there's one half going "RE fixed all their major fuckups, they have the warranty now, why wouldn't you" and the other going "The dealer network sucks rear end in America, it's still Indian made quality, just get a Big 4 manufacturer and call it a day" (at least online).
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Mar 18, 2021 03:01
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Both of those things can be simultaneously true. Supposedly they have fixed their major fuckups; Slavvy is probably the only person who has the experience to say whether that's true. A warranty doesn't mean anything if the dealer network is poo poo. Indian quality is neither here nor there; either they fixed the problems or they didn't. A bike from the big 4 will be, at worst, equally reliable while having a thousand times more parts availability and dealer/mechanic support. I wouldn't say no to an OG Bullet crated up on the streets of New Delhi and shipped to my door. I rode one in India and thought it was a hoot. But I have a ton of tools and a bunch of experience fixing old machines and access to a fully equipped metal shop and I still wouldn't get it as my first bike or my only bike, that's for sure. Get thee a 300cc something from a Japanese manufacturer and you will be content. The Rebel felt low to you because it's cruiser-styled and the seat is a bit lower than more standard bikes. Try a CB300 or an R3. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 03:21
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T-Shaped posted:Dumb question: Why? I went through this last year and this is what I came up with: The very best possible outcome is that the stories I hear everywhere are all wrong and a RE is not noticeably worse to own than a honda/suzuki/yamaha/kawa.
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Mar 18, 2021 03:35
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Sagebrush posted:Get thee a 300cc something from a Japanese manufacturer and you will be content. The Rebel felt low to you because it's cruiser-styled and the seat is a bit lower than more standard bikes. Try a CB300 or an R3. It's idiot brain talking, but I can't get over how "plastic transformer" the CB300/R3 look like, even though I know it's a standard and just the way bikes look nowadays. e.g I straight up love how the modern Trail 125 looks, but I know a 250 version of it will never exist anytime soon. I know from the last suggestion I got to look at was W800/650, SR400, GB400, and CB400, but W800 are still on the pricey side and SR400 aren't fuel injected. I keep stumbling over Triumph as of late which matches the styling I like, but I worry because of the 865cc engines for a rookie especially at the higher price point.
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Mar 18, 2021 04:39
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T-Shaped posted:It's idiot brain talking, but I can't get over how "plastic transformer" the CB300/R3 look like, even though I know it's a standard and just the way bikes look nowadays. MT-03, same engine as R3 but different packaging, though just *different* transformer look. Also Z400 in this vein if the sportbike faring look is what you don't like. Also are you sure you were looking at the CB300(R) and not the CBR300(R). Honda naming is dumb, but the CB300 looks a lot more like just a normal modernized UJM. Another very much classic looking bike is the suzuki TU250, though I am not sure if there are some gotcha with that model besides being...behind the curve. Still a big 4 and parts will be plentiful and a pretty reliable bike. I also think slightly older EX250/500s are a great option but again plastic transformer so v0v. I personally started on a 90s CB250 and I think it was a pretty dang good bike to start on.
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Mar 18, 2021 04:53
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TheBacon posted:Another very much classic looking bike is the suzuki TU250, though I am not sure if there are some gotcha with that model besides being...behind the curve. Still a big 4 and parts will be plentiful and a pretty reliable bike. I like the TU250X overall - but checking used around me has them going for $3k used which seems a bit high for a MSF-tier bike, and I'm not sure the cool heritage tank paint (which I do like) inspires dropping nearly $5k on a new one after dealer fees. I mean, I can try to see if they'll play ball for negotiating - again maybe it's me on CL/FB market but people are very weird on it lately in that "RARE COLOR RARE ITEM I KNOW WHAT I HAVE" way where shoving around a price seems like a slight. There's two TU250X around me, but it seems silly to drop 3k on one from 2015. T-Shaped fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 05:09
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A lot of this reads like someone forgetting that their first bike is not their last bike, and that it's job is not to sit by the cafe while you look hip, it's to teach you how not to ride like a learning impaired koala. If you get a plastic 300cc bike and learn to ride properly, I guarantee one of two things will happen: you will realise you want a completely different kind of bike, or you persist, ride whatever dumb cafe thing catches your eye and likely realise it's not very fun to ride past a certain point. Wrt enfield: the 'old' singles have horrific 'quality' but are quite rugged and reliable, the aftermarket is really neat, kind of like Harley, so you can effectively rebuild your bike to be better than the factory, and it's cheap! They are fun to spanner if you accept it will teach you nothing you can use on real bikes, and you can make a lot of tangible difference by just being skilled yo. But they are garbage to ride outside of a historical curio kind of way. Then there's what I think of as the 'medium' bikes, like the bullet 500 cafe for example, which retain the ancient construction, ultra long bore/stroke, pushrods etc but with efi, conventional controls, japanese-compatible design for things like switch blocks, brakes forks etc. These imo are really good bikes but still ultra archaic, not Harley pretend archaic. Humble dream: build a wannabe-manx rocket out of a 500, complete with old school diy porting and other hotrod stuff. 'Modern' enfields have unit construction engines, efi, and are mostly (but not entirely) modern in the rest of the bike. These offer a vastly more modern riding experience roughly on a par with small cheap Japanese retros. But the quality is really bad, like you'll break something under warranty and the next five parts are all faulty in the box, random electrical issues, terrible finish etc etc I know nothing about the 650 as I haven't seen one in person but by all rights they are an enormous step forward.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:01
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Don't get too wrapped up in aesthetics. I kinda did at first and while it wasn't a giant disaster or anything I would not have bought the bike I bought if I could have gone back 6 months and given myself the following advice: "This isn't going to be your last bike, so get something to learn on that meets all your criteria for what it can do, regardless of aesthetics". e: comprehensively beaten. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 06:05
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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:Don't get too wrapped up in aesthetics. I kinda did at first and while it wasn't a giant disaster or anything I would not have bought the bike I bought if I could have gone back 6 months and given myself the following advice: "This isn't going to be your last bike, so get something to learn on that meets all your criteria for what it can do, regardless of aesthetics". This dude started on an intruder 250, a great learner bike but nonetheless a chromed out grampa cruiser. Now he is on a dr650, which turned out to be the bike he actually needs, because bikes are for riding first and looking at afterward.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:10
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I still want a cruiser, but I've realised that it'll have to be a big one or nothing, and it couldn't be my only bike, and I don't actually want to give up the DR, so it'll be years before I do it again.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:55
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Cruisers in general make more sense the bigger they are, the cool stuff about them is accentuated while the bad stuff gets less important.
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Mar 18, 2021 06:58
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Maybe other people were born knowing how to ride like Marquez, but when I first started there was so much going on that the last thing in the world I'd want to deal with is potential mechanical problems. Or even just the limitations of an old bike or old suspension. It's hard enough to trust a newer bike at first, even when you know on paper it can go a lot faster, but add in the potential that maybe you are at the limit despite not knowing what the limit feels like and it just sounds like a waste of time. I've also gone from feeling like an SV650 is a great first bike to thinking that a 300cc or 400cc Ninja/R3/whatever is much better, no matter your size. What it really comes down to is there's nothing cooler than a really fast person on a slow bike, but being slow on a fast bike is the opposite of that.
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Mar 18, 2021 07:01
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