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Jaeluni Asjil posted:my first internet connection 1997 was 33kbps, google didn't exist I am jealous, my first connection when I was 17 or so was 2400 baud to Fidonet. ;p Edit: 1998. I had had an actual internet connection via the university's OSF/1 server for one year. I played a lot of MUDs.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:08
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Being defined by adults and teachers as 'bright', then coasting all the way through university and a masters absolutely hosed me up, because I expected it to be intellectually rewarding and fulfilling after slogging through the years of boring bullshit GCSEs and A levels, with university presented as this goal where 'smart' people like me belonged. And it turned out to be more of the same which I could just fake my way through. Wasn't until many years later I could look back on it and realise that school hadn't actually taught me how to use any intellectual or critical tools; no wonder uni seemed like bullshit nonsense.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:10
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ThomasPaine posted:That's interesting. Whereabouts in the country were you? Perhaps just saying 'all comps' is an oversimplification, but it was absolutely 100% a thing in my post-industrial northeast england school, at least until A-Level when most of the less academically interested would leave to go find jobs or do vocational courses (venn diagram of working class background/16-year old school leavers is almost a circle of course). I would imagine it's proportional to the deprivation of the local area. I went to a comp in the South Wales valleys in the late 90s/early 2000s and can't remember anyone getting bullied for being smart. It was pretty chilled out as far as I can recall. Maybe that's just personal perspective though.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:12
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Am I the only one who went completely off the reservation when it came to child rearing? Ignored that authoritarian “I am your parent not your friend” boomer nonsense and aimed for “the best friend and wingman whose single aim in life is to stop the crazy lead character from doing something stupid that will kill them” So many people even my age who just look to the kid’s 18th birthday like it’s a countdown the time they get rid of them now they are not Facebook photogenic, (instead of the “yay we can go the pub together now and do a quiz!” parent) who should never have had kids in the first place.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:14
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Hungry posted:Being defined by adults and teachers as 'bright', then coasting all the way through university and a masters absolutely hosed me up, because I expected it to be intellectually rewarding and fulfilling after slogging through the years of boring bullshit GCSEs and A levels, with university presented as this goal where 'smart' people like me belonged. And it turned out to be more of the same which I could just fake my way through. Wasn't until many years later I could look back on it and realise that school hadn't actually taught me how to use any intellectual or critical tools; no wonder uni seemed like bullshit nonsense. I had the opposite experience. After flying through high school and being told uni was where I'd really flourish, uni slammed me into the floor repeatedly because I actually had to turn up and work in order to succeed and I'm just inherently lazy. Also I discovered binge drinking.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:15
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I feel like the time point at which you take a big L has a big impact on your life I had my first "oh poo poo" moment during GCSE maths and did poorly on some A-levels so despite doing well in school up to that point knew I had to have some structure and couldn't coast. Meanwhile my partner admitted she didn't have to try very hard right through doing a master's then got absolutely crushed by doing a PhD.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:16
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I mean I was an accident and my mother has never seemed entirely happy about my having existed so, eh. I don't really have anything to compare it to.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:17
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ThomasPaine posted:Obviously people have different innate abilities based on natural variation, but if you'd read past the first few words of my post you'd realise that's not at all what I was talking about. Sure, you will occasionally get absurdly intelligent children, you will get children who struggle, that needs to be taken into account. My point was that the reality of the spectrum of ability does not remotely map onto the hierarchical structure of sets imposed by schools, and plenty of very very promising working class kids are left to stagnate at the bottom of the pile while the mediocre but (relatively) privileged are able to rise to the top, where they are lauded as 'gifted' and Extremely Clever. I'm probably not in a fit state of mind to talk about this dispassionately right now, so I'll leave it. I've just heard "there's no such thing as gifted children" from far too many lovely teachers over the last few years. Failed Imagineer posted:The Suffering of the Gifted Child His Divine Shadow posted:Figure they most suffer cause their parents and other people keep telling them they are gifted. Guessing neither of you have ever had to discuss suicide and self harm with an 8 year old. Must be nice.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:17
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Looking at covid numbers the drop in new cases has slowed down to a crawl, almost evening out to a constant rate of new cases per week. Is a bit scary given that's before any significant loosening of the restrictions.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:18
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learnincurve posted:Am I the only one who went completely off the reservation when it came to child rearing? Ignored that authoritarian “I am your parent not your friend” boomer nonsense and aimed for “the best friend and wingman whose single aim in life is to stop the crazy lead character from doing something stupid that will kill them” You should read Sophie Lewis if you haven't already, she is into abolishing the nuclear family and the idea of children as their parents "property" Not sure I agree with her end points necessarily but she raises a lot of good points about how we treat children in modern society https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/coronavirus-crisis-shows-its-time-abolish-family/
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Mar 18, 2021 15:19
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Wolfsbane posted:I'm probably not in a fit state of mind to talk about this dispassionately right now, so I'll leave it. I've just heard "there's no such thing as gifted children" from far too many lovely teachers over the last few years. No worries mate, no harm done. I'm really sorry you're having such a difficult time of it. Private Speech posted:Looking at covid numbers the drop in new cases has slowed down to a crawl, almost evening out to a constant rate of new cases per week. I noticed this too but there's also been a crazy spike in testing over the same period, so I'm hoping that's part of why it looks like things are levelling out.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:23
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I have Wolfbane, in fact a few people in this thread will have done because it contains a high number of care workers and teachers, once again I ask you with all due respect to shut the gently caress up. This does my nut in on the internet in general, people say something problematic about LGBT people (of which I am one) and everyone all jumps in to body the idiot, but when it’s people/the government being arseholes over learning disabilities it’s me and only me going off about it to absolute crickets from everyone else.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:24
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Private Speech posted:Looking at covid numbers the drop in new cases has slowed down to a crawl, almost evening out to a constant rate of new cases per week. Schools open for two weeks + more testing and flat cases is pretty good no?
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Mar 18, 2021 15:32
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feedmegin posted:I am jealous, my first connection when I was 17 or so was 2400 baud to Fidonet. ;p Mine was in 1992 or 1993 on my dad's business line to work. There was nothing interesting for me so I went back to my TI-99 and MegaDrive.
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Mar 18, 2021 15:41
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peanut- posted:Schools open for two weeks + more testing and flat cases is pretty good no? Yeah, raw case data is quite hard to draw conclusions on by itself, even if it appears to show an increase. Start to worry when hospital admissions/deaths start to level off/rise too.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:00
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Me: today I should be productive Me seconds later: 
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Mar 18, 2021 16:05
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MikeCrotch posted:You should read Sophie Lewis if you haven't already, she is into abolishing the nuclear family and the idea of children as their parents "property" This is interesting, because she does that David Icke thing where she says something sensible (not everyone has a home and that’s bad) and follows it up with something mad (broadly: even happy families are awful because they perpetuate norms that she doesn’t share, so they should be abolished so more people can be like her ideal). It’s an internal contradiction that I don’t think the modern left has really come to terms with: * The world should be run in the interests of the many not the few * No not the things the many actually want, many of which are horrible, the things we think they ought to want * Which are defined primarily by the needs and interests of discriminated-against minorities (definitionally, the few) Incidentally, the principal alternative to the nuclear family is the extended family and anyone who has spent significant time in a large, clannish family can absolutely understand how it’s capable of being by turns warm, nurturing, and an absolute loving nightmare that any sane person would flee to form their own nuclear family. Extended families tend to be much tougher about enforcing group norms, for one thing. E: I think there are decent arguments for two possibilities: (1) extended families are the norm, and nuclear families’ natural role is as a place for people who don’t fit in the extended ones; (2) it’s all cyclical; extended families spawn nuclear ones which in turn coalesce into extended ones. Whichever mode is dominant at a given point in time is determined by the cycle. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 16:45
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I have used the words “free agency” and “just because it came out of your vagina it does not mean you own it” way way too many times in my life.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:50
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah, raw case data is quite hard to draw conclusions on by itself, even if it appears to show an increase. Start to worry when hospital admissions/deaths start to level off/rise too. That has a pretty big time lag though, so it's not exactly easy to rely that data either. Specifically it's not hospital admissions that's usually quoted, it's people in hospital, which naturally lags by a few weeks as people recover.
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Mar 18, 2021 16:51
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Just over 500 cases were picked up in schools the first day back then it dropped off after
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Mar 18, 2021 16:55
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Private Speech posted:That has a pretty big time lag though, so it's not exactly easy to rely that data either. The govt covid dashboard has daily admissions stats https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
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Mar 18, 2021 16:57
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This whole concept of gifted children and the supporting structures are bullshit. It either puts pressure on the child, or it leads to the usual “my iq was 160 and I was gifted but now I an a wreck which is however my fault because I am lazy“ antic that you could read like ten times on the last page. When in reality the system is simply abusive, and guess what, even if you did worse after school, it is not your loving fault. You were a child. I was the best in school since this was the only way I could get acknowledgment from my parents (a semi genuine well done once per week), when I would otherwise receive disdain at best. I also won all the chess tournaments and went to the best program at the best uni in a field I don’t give a poo poo about, because I lived on the correct assumption that if not love, at least some attention would be given if I could prove my worth. The school did everything to support that notion. Contrary to the expert’s assessments, I am neither gifted nor particularly intelligent. I was just well trained to immediately get an anxiety attack if someone was better than me at literally anything. Truly, a success of the system. Of course this very normal way to treat a child also led me to take drugs and be a complete loner up until my mid 20‘s, but whatever. And I would have carried on that hosed up lifestyle, were it not for meeting my now-wife who stubbornly stuck with me for whatever reason, despite my obvious mental challenges. So, after - for the first time in my life - being the recipient of mental and physical affection (first hug, etc), I realized that I had been systematically hosed my entire life and I did nothing, literally nothing to deserve all the hours of panic and grief initiated by my family and the schooling system. I was a kid, and I would have deserved acknowledgment even if I didn’t write top grades, instead of being paraded around some assembly when I did. Instead of some trophy, I would have deserved my teachers realizing that I had never been held in someone’s arm my entire life. But no, can’t let that poo poo get into the way of your gifted students class because numbers are more important. If you are not from a prosperous and well adjusted family, this rat race in school has a high potential to be cruel, undignified and damaging. And denoting some kid with jobless and alcoholic parents a success because he writes good numbers and brings in trophies is a fallacy, and if you support this system or agree that this measures the success with which we treat children, then gently caress you too. If I ever have kids, I know two things: I will hug them every day, and I will let them have a childhood before worrying about poo poo like college, grades or IQ tests. Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 17:00
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Beefeater1980 posted:Incidentally, the principal alternative to the nuclear family is the extended family and anyone who has spent significant time in a large, clannish family can absolutely understand how it’s capable of being by turns warm, nurturing, and an absolute loving nightmare that any sane person would flee to form their own nuclear family. Extended families tend to be much tougher about enforcing group norms, for one thing. The argument there is that extended families were the norm in the past, and large clans could even give the state a run for its money in the pre-modern era, which is why the era of modern states saw a lot of violence against that, from the Highland Clearances and Ulster Plantations to anti-Mafia campaigns. The nuclear family was a safe state-sanctioned alternative but only even approximated its ideal Beaver Cleaverville form with a ton of state intervention and nationalized utilities and heavy industry in the background. But where do we go now? They'd say something more like intentional communities rather than a return to clans. Intentional communities can have their bad forms in the same way that both nuclear and extended families can, but the root isn't just that nuclear fams bad/violent/patriarchal (even if that is a large part of her case), but that they're not a very good fit for a world where the state can no longer be bothered supporting them.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:03
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To be clear, and because I never blame myself when I have the opportunity to blame others, I don't think it's my fault, or even a fault at all, I think it's an entirely reasonable response to the environment I found myself in.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:03
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It's my fault. For all of you. I did it just to make the world worse *twirls moustache*
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Mar 18, 2021 17:09
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Oh yeah if anyone's curious my dad managed to pull through, but his lungs got pretty hosed up to the point where he can barely do anything but lie in bed all day. Can't even really say more than a word or two at a time, Apparently it's supposed to get better over the next few months/the next year. Still, glad he's alright now (as alright as can be expected, anyway).
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Mar 18, 2021 17:14
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Guavanaut posted:But where do we go now? They'd say something more like intentional communities rather than a return to clans. I’m not sure nuclear families aren’t (small) intentional communities. The problem seems to me to be promoting them as the only right way to live. For the people they work for, they’re fine.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:15
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Private Speech posted:Oh yeah if anyone's curious my dad managed to pull through, but his lungs got pretty hosed up to the point where he can barely do anything but lie in bed all day. Can't even really say more than a word or two at a time, Oh poo poo, did he get the vid? Glad to hear he survived at least.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:17
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Tesseraction posted:Oh poo poo, did he get the vid? Glad to hear he survived at least. Yeah he was on oxygen for over three weeks. Was apparently one of the milder cases with ARDS, thankfully. It's close to even odds of survival once it gets that bad, so really it's as good as it can be.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:20
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quote != edit
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Mar 18, 2021 17:21
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Private Speech posted:Yeah he was on ventilator for over three weeks. Was apparently one of the milder cases with ARDS, thankfully. Hope he pulls through PS!
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Mar 18, 2021 17:22
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Private Speech posted:Yeah he was on oxygen for over three weeks. Was apparently one of the milder cases with ARDS, thankfully. Yeah, a family friend was on for around that time but succumbed. Glad your da pulled through.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:25
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Haramstufe Rot posted:This whole concept of gifted children and the supporting structures are bullshit. It either puts pressure on the child, or it leads to the usual “my iq was 160 and I was gifted but now I an a wreck which is however my fault because I am lazy“ antic that you could read like ten times on the last page. I think this is the only post you've ever made that I've agreed with
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Mar 18, 2021 17:31
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Failed Imagineer posted:I'd wager a large proportion of posters itt were similarly know-it-alls who were told they had a big brain at a young age and then became terminally lazy wastrels over the years. lmao
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Mar 18, 2021 17:31
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Beefeater1980 posted:I’m not sure nuclear families aren’t (small) intentional communities. The problem seems to me to be promoting them as the only right way to live. For the people they work for, they’re fine. The big problem is that while an extended family can persist with little in the way of state resources, or even against an antagonistic state, nuclear families require more than just a functioning society to best thrive, it's just not much talked about in the same way that the myth of the rugged individual persists. Will the nuclear family still work for people after decades of the state seeming not to care? Are there better structures that avoid some of the pitfalls of both nuclear and extended families? How can these alternatives best be promoted to people? Would it be cooler if the nuclear family was called the atomic family? etc
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Mar 18, 2021 17:37
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Another hand up for the 'thick then, thick now, but polite and white enough to float' here. Actually serious but poorly phrased question: What is an assessment an adult can take to actually get an objective reading on their branes e.g. a) 'sorry to say you were born with congenital thicky awkwardness' / b) this is actually a touch of adhd / depression / ? and you will feel immensely better about yourself if you do x y and z or / c) I don't know homer-simpson-crayon-head.jpeg
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Mar 18, 2021 17:41
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Borrovan posted:Yeah imo the constant expectation that you're gonna massively outperform everyone/constantly being held to higher standards, in combination with never actually being nurtured/intellectually stimulated, is a good recipe for saying "gently caress it" & going right off the rails. Especially when you factor in that you're "different" to all the other kids/probably a bit weird anyway. Yeah that's definitely how I felt. I don't think I was ever actually called "gifted" but I was reading at a year 7 level when I was in year 2 and then went to a grammar school when I was 12. Then just didn't apply myself at all because 90% of what I was being taught was boring bullshit and I always felt like I was just going through the motions because I had to. My niece was properly gifted. Did her GCSEs a year early and got like all A and A*. Think she also did her A-levels early and similarly got loads of As, and now she's just flamed out and was working as the lowest level cook at a restaurant for a bit and now doing some kind of social work for minimum wage. I don't blame her for any of that, in fact I completely understand it.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:45
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ThomasPaine posted:I think this is the only post you've ever made that I've agreed with It’s probably because it includes the assertion that I am not very intelligent, but hey, good enough for me 
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Mar 18, 2021 17:48
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it's also extremely impossible to divide it from a class analysis - i can say as someone who was poorer in more "advanced" classes the socioeconomic divide between the two is not subtle. if you ever hear about a parent giving their child "every chance" or trying to get them prepared for school (ie, active and at times expensive tutoring, extra curricular activities, etc) what they desperately want is their child to be exceptional and these programs proved a great way to make the schools tell them that.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:52
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Chubby Henparty posted:Another hand up for the 'thick then, thick now, but polite and white enough to float' here. It's not a satisfying answer but (with the possible caveat of those with such severe conditions that they require day-to-day help just to get by, and even then...) I think any attempt to quantify intelligence or even conclusively draw a line between 'normal' and 'abnormal' mental function is a flawed premise from the off because these kinds of measurements are always going to be influenced drastically by the ideology of the observer or test designer. WhatEvil posted:My niece was properly gifted. Did her GCSEs a year early and got like all A and A*. Think she also did her A-levels early and similarly got loads of As, and now she's just flamed out and was working as the lowest level cook at a restaurant for a bit and now doing some kind of social work for minimum wage. I don't blame her for any of that, in fact I completely understand it. A friend of mine at uni was considered so 'gifted' she was bumped up I think two whole years in high school and was literally 16 in her first year. Of course this is far far too young and she really struggled and ended up dropping out and working in a pub, not because she couldn't handle it academically but found it overwhelming in all the other ways that upping sticks and moving across the country to a new place where you know no-one is. There's ofc nothing wrong with working in a pub, but it does feel like a shame because she could have done very well but was pretty much hosed over by the expectations she'd had put on her. Haramstufe Rot posted:It’s probably because it includes the assertion that I am not very intelligent, but hey, good enough for me We're all dumbass spooky skeletons in the end ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 17:53
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