(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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gradenko_2000 posted:okay sorry folks I was zonked out on painkillers last night so I didn't get to post the PRC allying with the US to prop up cambodia and invading vietnam is one of the few legit criticisms you could bring up against chinese foreign policy post mao, i'm surprised it's not brought up more by anti china propagandists but the inconvenient fact of US involvement and anti-USSR policy probably gets in their way
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Mar 18, 2021 17:21
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mila kunis posted:the PRC allying with the US to prop up cambodia and invading vietnam is one of the few legit criticisms you could bring up against chinese foreign policy post mao, i'm surprised it's not brought up more by anti china propagandists but the inconvenient fact of US involvement and anti-USSR policy probably gets in their way How would they bring it up? As far as I can figure out the Sino-Soviet split is still treated as a communist plot in polite company.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:27
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China also allied with US and helped the "brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan" via Pakistan. I don't know whether that count as good or bad.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:28
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stephenthinkpad posted:China also allied with US and helped the "brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan" via Pakistan. I don't know whether that count as good or bad. looking at the wreckage of the last 30 years, i would venture "bad"
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Mar 18, 2021 17:31
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its wild how such a basic foundational element of cold war history is completely whitewashed in english language education because everyone knows that all communists are basically the same imagine people in china right now thinking that the united states and russia must be best buds since theyre both capitalists
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Mar 18, 2021 17:31
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afghanistan hosed up so much poo poo. for example, by the 70s kashmir had for the most part settled down and had started becoming an integrated part of india, hindu/muslim sectarianism in the country was muted compared to partition. then afghanistan happened, the cia and the sauds flooded pakistan with cash, weapons and ideology and the pakistanis made full use of it to stir kashmir up again. which led to a feedback loop when the indian state responded with brutality, directly led to the rise of the hindu nationalist right wing we all know and love today. the radio war nerd guys keep banging on about how 1979/80 was a massive turning point in history, and it really was across multiple regions of the world for disparate but slightly connected reasons
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Mar 18, 2021 17:35
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mila kunis posted:the radio war nerd guys keep banging on about how 1979/80 was a massive turning point in history, and it really was across multiple regions of the world for disparate but slightly connected reasons do they tie in to gladio ops in Turkey and the 1980 coup?
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Mar 18, 2021 17:42
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the anti-China propagandists can't bring it up because it'll bring up all sorts of uncomfortable questions like "wait so the communist countries weren't just one monolith?" and "we backed Pol Pot?" and "we were fine with working with China when it came to Afghanistan?" and "we sent arms to China in the 70s?"
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Mar 18, 2021 17:47
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Also US dumped Taiwan and moved all the US soldiers out of the island for cheaper manufacturing base in mainland.
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Mar 18, 2021 17:50
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stephenthinkpad posted:China also allied with US and helped the "brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan" via Pakistan. I don't know whether that count as good or bad. They're currently the government of Afghanistan, so good or bad it's at least internally consistent.
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Mar 18, 2021 18:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:the anti-China propagandists can't bring it up because it'll bring up all sorts of uncomfortable questions like "wait so the communist countries weren't just one monolith?" and "we backed Pol Pot?" and "we were fine with working with China when it came to Afghanistan?" and "we sent arms to China in the 70s?" im more amused that theyre are so naturally pre-disposed to a subservient and weak china and any change in that status is an "existential threat" Agrajag has issued a correction as of 18:46 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 18:42
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https://tv.cctv.com/2021/03/17/VIDECC4oWWp83nJjnScSFaxu210317.shtmlquote:Han Zheng goes to the NDRC to kick off 14th 5 yer plan and 2035 long term objectives implementation, now that they are officially approved. The key points: looks like they're getting serious about real estate affordability. pretty stark contrast to for example, the canadian government, who were insisting they needed to inflate asset prices further in the wake of covid "for the economy".
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Mar 18, 2021 19:07
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gradenko_2000 posted:the anti-China propagandists can't bring it up because it'll bring up all sorts of uncomfortable questions like "wait so the communist countries weren't just one monolith?" and "we backed Pol Pot?" and "we were fine with working with China when it came to Afghanistan?" and "we sent arms to China in the 70s?" The last few times it's come up in here iirc it was swatted away with "pol pot was never a communist and was always US backed and anything else is a lie"
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Mar 18, 2021 19:12
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Grapplejack posted:China having any positive relations with southeast asia is honestly a loving miracle, they treat them like the US treats south america nowhere remotely close to it, your posts itt are relentlessly stupid.
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Mar 18, 2021 19:32
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what does “gradually delay the statutory retirement age” mean? is it a translation issue or are they making it a plank of their five year plan to make people work longer
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Mar 18, 2021 19:43
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Another [potential] hate crime, this time the [likely] attacker got owned: https://twitter.com/DennisKPIX/status/1372241168663076864?s=20
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Mar 18, 2021 19:59
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mila kunis posted:nowhere remotely close to it, your posts itt are relentlessly stupid. Alright yeah it was just one guy Lol remember crazy cloud
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Mar 18, 2021 20:00
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indigi posted:what does “gradually delay the statutory retirement age” mean? is it a translation issue or are they making it a plank of their five year plan to make people work longer its a translation error. this means emperor Xi plans to have his top alchemists produce enough Elixir of Immortality for everyone in China
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Mar 18, 2021 20:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:the anti-China propagandists can't bring it up because it'll bring up all sorts of uncomfortable questions like "wait so the communist countries weren't just one monolith?" and "we backed Pol Pot?" and "we were fine with working with China when it came to Afghanistan?" and "we sent arms to China in the 70s?" It also brings up questions why the Soviets and the Chinese split in the first place and somehow ended up in the US camp. Krushchev honestly screwed up, but at the same time Mao had really did put the PRC in a quite a pickle and it is fair to say that the Great Leap Forward, the Chinese Famine of 1959-60, and arguably even the Cultural Revolution would either happened differently or not at all if both sides could have reached a compromise. Also, the PRC was developing rather rapidly in the 1950s under a centralized model and there is also an argument to be made that the PRC by 1980 would have been in better shape if they had simply continued that path. The 1980s and after becomes murkier but it is also possible the Soviets if not the entire socialist bloc would have been in significantly better shape than our timeline. That said, I don't think that PRC could have reached the type of growth China saw until today. That required the full cooperation of the West to achieve.
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Mar 18, 2021 21:40
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Ardennes posted:Also, the PRC was developing rather rapidly in the 1950s under a centralized model and there is also an argument to be made that the PRC by 1980 would have been in better shape if they had simply continued that path. ... it seems like the USSR was able to achieve a level parity with the West in terms of growth and development, how come China couldn't follow a similar model, especially if the split hadn't happened?
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Mar 18, 2021 22:49
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My understanding is that Russia was a partly industrialized country that could still make deals with Western capitalists in the first decade or so of its existence. China had less industry as a semi-colonized country, and was basically entirely shut out from the capitalist world market after the Communist victory.
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Mar 18, 2021 23:17
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mila kunis posted:the PRC allying with the US to prop up cambodia and invading vietnam is one of the few legit criticisms you could bring up against chinese foreign policy post mao, i'm surprised it's not brought up more by anti china propagandists but the inconvenient fact of US involvement and anti-USSR policy probably gets in their way also despite various leftists' and "leftists'" attempts to be like you see, the socialist countries did imperialism too, it's impossible to understand anything that happened in that era without taking into account the gigantic gravity well of the united states distorting every other state's actions and strategies. if there's no US then there's no incentive to stab your neighboring socialists to get good boy points and therefore capital investments
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Mar 18, 2021 23:17
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Ferrinus posted:if there's no US then there's no incentive to stab your neighboring socialists to get good boy points and therefore capital investments lol
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Mar 19, 2021 00:23
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indigi posted:it seems like the USSR was able to achieve a level parity with the West in terms of growth and development, how come China couldn't follow a similar model, especially if the split hadn't happened? There was limits to Soviet competitiveness outside some fields such as aerospace, and at best the Soviet Union was 40% of the US’ gdp. The PRC would have hit the same wall eventually. It was accessing Western capital and tech that gave them such a huge advantage in our historical timeline.
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Mar 19, 2021 00:23
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shrike82 posted:lol go on
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Mar 19, 2021 00:29
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you're lapsing into the same american exceptionalist mindset as neolibs in viewing all actions of China, Russia, etc as driven by and by-products of the US read up a bit on the history of Sino-Soviet relations especially the early-mid 20th century which includes an actual border conflict between the two
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Mar 19, 2021 00:39
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Krushchev was a revisionist and Mao saw that clearly. Seriously Kruschev was bitch-made as gently caress. Should have called America's bluff on the Cuban Missile Crisis
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Mar 19, 2021 00:40
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mila kunis posted:https://tv.cctv.com/2021/03/17/VIDECC4oWWp83nJjnScSFaxu210317.shtml a list of technocratic tweaks including increasing the retirement age - socialism with Chinese characteristics looks suspiciously like a degraded version of social democracy
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Mar 19, 2021 00:46
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KaptainKrunk posted:Krushchev was a revisionist and Mao saw that clearly. JFK was drugged out of his mind, he would have pushed the button without hesitation
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Mar 19, 2021 00:54
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Grapplejack posted:JFK was drugged out of his mind, he would have pushed the button without hesitation true but the world would be a maoist paradise
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Mar 19, 2021 01:00
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Posadist*
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Mar 19, 2021 01:13
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shrike82 posted:you're lapsing into the same american exceptionalist mindset as neolibs in viewing all actions of China, Russia, etc as driven by and by-products of the US i'm sure that kruschev and mao wouldn't have gotten along regardless, but it's rank idealism to imagine that you can just put the soviet union and china in a petri dish and put the usa into a separate petri dish and then watch the ussr and prc fight it out anyway. the looming presence of the capitalist hegemon is inseparable from basically any action taken by any socialist state, especially the biggest socialist states most likely to tangle with that hegemon directly
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Mar 19, 2021 01:14
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shrike82 posted:you're lapsing into the same american exceptionalist mindset as neolibs in viewing all actions of China, Russia, etc as driven by and by-products of the US of course the US wasn't a major factor in China-Soviet relations prior to WW2. The US hadn't become the global capitalist superpower yet. also the USSR and China were still squabbling about borders during the split itself.
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Mar 19, 2021 01:14
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How is the Korean media reacting the news of the shootings in Atlanta? On a much smaller scale, I'm wondering if this might impact the fight around this shithead professor at Harvard. https://twitter.com/schwarz/status/1358481436798550018?s=20
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Mar 19, 2021 01:50
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Biden: "I'm going to punish you for what you did!!!" Putin: "I love you." https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1372569556015800331 https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1249352090033496066 BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 02:29 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 02:26
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KaptainKrunk posted:true but the world would be a maoist paradise WW3 in 1963 means no Jakarta Method, no Operation Condor, no Gladio, no Vietnam War, etc. There'd be nothing to stop workers movements throughout the developing world. The Soviets should have taken one for the team imo
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Mar 19, 2021 05:23
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https://twitter.com/cnni/status/1372712095633043461 if you read the article you'll find that CNN was able to find both the parents AND the kids, and speak to them, and put the kids in contact with the parents. also, the article makes frequent reference to this earlier article from February: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-karakax-document-intl-hnk/ which, you guessed it:  and then also this article: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/21/asia/xinjiang-china-response-sterilization-intl-hnk/index.html  and then it also links back to the Newlines Institute Report that we've seen earlier
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Mar 19, 2021 07:08
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yeah, but even with all the zenzposting removed what's been done to that guy and his family is abhorrent (please don't turn out to be a terrorist)
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Mar 19, 2021 07:22
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Doctor Jeep posted:(please don't turn out to be a terrorist) a casual twitter search indicates that he used to intern for the UN and an Australia-based think-tank (which we know from the CNN story that he did to go AUS after leaving Malaysia)
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Mar 19, 2021 07:47
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| # ? May 25, 2024 19:19 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:a casual twitter search indicates that he used to intern for the UN and an Australia-based think-tank (which we know from the CNN story that he did to go AUS after leaving Malaysia) oof, those are 2 pretty big red flags (not for terrorism obviously, but certainly for something shady)
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Mar 19, 2021 07:56
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