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Fwiw the feel of how close to the limit you are is 100% setup and refinement, it's possible to have just as much feel and feedback from an old bike as from a brand new one. Human meat and the nature of two wheeled dynamics are both pretty much fixed, so a good feeling bike is a good feeling bike irrespective of era. The problem is this feel is only achievable if you have an excellent bike and good skills already, and generally the older (or faster) you go the narrower the bike's goldilocks zone becomes. I'd argue it's easy and obvious to reach the limit on bikes that are easy and obvious to understand, the technology is irrelevant because technology got faster than learners 40 years ago. Sportbikes are loaded with technology, but you have to be going very fast and know what you're doing to get the chassis really working to get some actual feedback. I think SV's and other middle weights are right on the cusp of having to compromise too much ease of understanding in favour of stability and performance and not really good learner bikes. 300 class bikes have predictable, obvious pitching behavior and light steering, as well as relatively conservative steering geometry, which combined with the skinny tyres equals loads of feedback at moderate corner speeds. Nothing about the r3 would change in a meaningful way if you were forced to build it with 1991 technology, it would sprout a choke lever, lose abs, lose the digital cluster and that's about it. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 07:14
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T-Shaped posted:It's idiot brain talking, but I can't get over how "plastic transformer" the CB300/R3 look like, even though I know it's a standard and just the way bikes look nowadays. Not that it matters, but I don’t think those bikes are transformer-y at all. CB300R and R3 look great. Z400, MT-03, Duke 390 are definitely in the transformers realm. Tastes are subjective though. And like others have said, it doesn’t matter that much anyway. I didn’t want a faired/sports bike or dual sport when I was first looking, and now those are all I want. Your decision making is currently driven largely by aesthetics. Get something you want of course but you should narrow down to beginner friendly bikes and pick which appeals most/you can find/afford. Since you’re bigger dual sports or sumo might make more sense.
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Mar 18, 2021 07:33
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Here’s my two cents on buying your first bike: it’s so exciting that you almost can’t help yourself. Basically everyone gets excited and ends up spending more or getting the first bike they see, or both. It’s not ideal but that’s just how it is. If you can, try to listen to the advice here and get a bike that you view as disposable in the sense that you plan on getting a new one in a year (or two...). And then just go get the cheapest, mechanically sound good starter bike and go ride.
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Mar 18, 2021 13:49
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T-Shaped posted:It's idiot brain talking, but I can't get over how "plastic transformer" the CB300/R3 look like, even though I know it's a standard and just the way bikes look nowadays. Get the Trail 125 then, that's an excellent starter bike.
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Mar 18, 2021 14:12
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builds character posted:Here’s my two cents on buying your first bike: it’s so exciting that you almost can’t help yourself. Basically everyone gets excited and ends up spending more or getting the first bike they see, or both. It’s not ideal but that’s just how it is. If you can, try to listen to the advice here and get a bike that you view as disposable in the sense that you plan on getting a new one in a year (or two...). And then just go get the cheapest, mechanically sound good starter bike and go ride. The number of people who buy a really nice pristine bike as their first bike then immediately drop it at 0mph and never touch it again, not because they're scared of riding but because they're scared of again damaging the nice paint and chrome has to be a number way way north of zero. It's like buying a nice piece of furniture and then not sitting in it because you wouldn't want to ruin it with your butt smells. Buy poo poo you can ride, forget the image.
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Mar 18, 2021 14:48
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Steakandchips posted:Get the Trail 125 then, that's an excellent starter bike. Or a vanvan, for something with a little more pep and substance with the style they like. Really it sounds like they are avoiding carbed bikes, which I don't understand. I'd avoid the SR400 for the kick only, not the carb.
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Mar 18, 2021 14:55
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Coydog posted:Or a vanvan, for something with a little more pep and substance with the style they like. Really it sounds like they are avoiding carbed bikes, which I don't understand. I'd avoid the SR400 for the kick only, not the carb. I seriously considered the Vanvan for my 1st bike. I love the way it looks.
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Mar 18, 2021 18:13
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I thought the newer SR400 was FI? Fake edit: it is past 2010.
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Mar 18, 2021 19:13
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builds character posted:Here’s my two cents on buying your first bike: it’s so exciting that you almost can’t help yourself. Basically everyone gets excited and ends up spending more or getting the first bike they see, or both. It’s not ideal but that’s just how it is. And for the love of god, don’t go by yourself, bring someone who isn’t invested in riding the new shiny thing. I say this as someone who made goo-goo eyes at the first bike he saw, handed over a wad of cash, and then got it home and said “.... hang on, is this fairing painted in house paint?”
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Mar 18, 2021 19:42
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Yeah, 100% bring someone else too. Ideally a biker, who can you tell if the chain is hosed up, if the tyres need replacing, if the brakes are worn, if the fluids need replacing, if the clutch is hosed etc etc.
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Mar 18, 2021 20:57
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Gorson posted:The number of people who buy a really nice pristine bike as their first bike then immediately drop it at 0mph and never touch it again, not because they're scared of riding but because they're scared of again damaging the nice paint and chrome has to be a number way way north of zero. It's like buying a nice piece of furniture and then not sitting in it because you wouldn't want to ruin it with your butt smells. Buy poo poo you can ride, forget the image. This reminds me of a mate who has spent his whole life carless, bikes only, didn't even have a car license, no interest in ever having a car. One day his girlfriend, who has also never had a car and only ridden bikes, decided they needed a car for whatever reason. She swore repeatedly that they really need a car and she would learn to drive immediately and so on. I got asked to offer some advice in the process cause I used to gently caress around with cars when I was young and stupid and didn't know better. It was like a surreal, twilight zone version of the learner bike shopping brain. I said to focus on something reliable, practical and economical, like a corolla or what have you, as well as getting something that was easy to learn to drive on by virtue of being small, easy to see out of and so on. But nope, the car had to be all of those things, but also cool and sporty in some vague ill-defined way, but also not very expensive. The guy gave up trying to streer her into something decent halfway through and basically just said get what you want I need this to end. After endless google research, much obsession with irrelevant minutae, and several difficult moments where I had to talk her out of a loving e46, the compromise they ended up with was an automatic honda integra (acura rsx I guess?) with chrome wheels. she drove it once, bumped into a parked car (turns out sporty coupes are terrible to see out of if you've never driven before like I said repeatedly) and hasn't touched it since then, which was a year ago. It remains in their driveway, depreciating. I guess the moral of this story is you can't make stupid listen, or something idk.
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Mar 18, 2021 21:48
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Slavvy posted:she drove it once, bumped into a parked car (turns out sporty coupes are terrible to see out of if you've never driven before like I said repeatedly) and hasn't touched it since then, which was a year ago. It remains in their driveway, depreciating. Sounds like my ex. Backed her brand new second car into another car in week 1 and then wouldn't drive it anywhere where she'd have to park it where someone could back into it, and started taking the bus to work.
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Mar 18, 2021 22:12
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Slavvy posted:This reminds me of a mate who has spent his whole life carless, bikes only, didn't even have a car license, no interest in ever having a car. One day his girlfriend, who has also never had a car and only ridden bikes, decided they needed a car for whatever reason. She swore repeatedly that they really need a car and she would learn to drive immediately and so on. I got asked to offer some advice in the process cause I used to gently caress around with cars when I was young and stupid and didn't know better. Slavvy, you'll be glad to know that once I get my car driving license (doing the theory test in May, then some lessons after, hopefully should have it by August or September), I intend to buy a car that costs no more than £500. Bangernomics, as they say here. Maybe something like this:  I don't give two shits what it looks like, nor its performance. The car will exist for 2 reasons, the main one being taking the cats to the vets once or twice a year, and the 2nd reason being random poo poo like airport runs once a year or carrying lots of crap from a gardening centre home.
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Mar 18, 2021 22:58
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many women are competent drivers
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Mar 18, 2021 23:00
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Advrider is that way
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Mar 19, 2021 00:13
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Hey? No, she was a competent driver. That was the only time she ever hit anything while we were dating. She just had an unshakeable belief that anything she hosed up was something that everyone hosed up all the time. So a minor mistake in an unfamiliar vehicle that most people would laugh off became "my new car will get trashed within a month if I leave it in public because everyone backs into other cars all the time", so she never drove it.
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Mar 19, 2021 00:28
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In San Francisco if you street park your car the bumpers will get scratched to poo poo.
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Mar 19, 2021 00:42
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It's weird to go to NY and see everyone has bumper condoms on their cars
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Mar 19, 2021 00:43
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Steakandchips posted:Slavvy, you'll be glad to know that once I get my car driving license (doing the theory test in May, then some lessons after, hopefully should have it by August or September), I intend to buy a car that costs no more than £500. Bangernomics, as they say here. Why buy and not rent if it's seeing use three times a year?
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Mar 19, 2021 00:55
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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:Hey? No, she was a competent driver. That was the only time she ever hit anything while we were dating. She just had an unshakeable belief that anything she hosed up was something that everyone hosed up all the time. So a minor mistake in an unfamiliar vehicle that most people would laugh off became "my new car will get trashed within a month if I leave it in public because everyone backs into other cars all the time", so she never drove it. lol it's a famous line from the office, simmer down 
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Mar 19, 2021 01:29
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Toe Rag posted:In San Francisco if you street park your car the bumpers will get scratched to poo poo. A few weeks ago I got a nice big black scrape on top of my car's hood. I was really puzzled for a while and then I realized it must have been one of these giant lifted SUVs that have a bumper so high it actually goes over the hood of my twenty-year-old ZX2, and which have sightlines so lovely that my car was probably completely invisible behind them. Assholes
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Mar 19, 2021 01:36
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pun pundit posted:Why buy and not rent if it's seeing use three times a year?  basically.
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Mar 19, 2021 06:21
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Found a local place that's open during deathplague and has modern used CB300F in stock, so going to try to make a slot and put butt in seats. They also seem to have a used TW200 and NC700X (non-DCT) on the cheap end also so gonna sit in those too. There's used TU250X in my area which I've been looking at on FB marketplace and CL, but they seem to hover around $3-3.3k and always seem to insta-sell or last a week at best with a "you're the x guy in line for dibs" situations.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:24
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Get the CB300F. Do not get the NC700X.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:27
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Aside from being a heavy sack of poo poo, there's really nothing wrong with an NC700x for a beginner. My dad had one when he was first getting into "adv" riding and one time he dumped it in a creek on some equestrian trails 2 hours from home. Called me while I was waiting in line at the DMV and after barely enough signal transmission to get him to hang up and text me his coordinates, I rode the DRZ up there, figured out which trail he was on and then towed his piece of poo poo to the trail head with my DRZ back over 5 miles of double track lol
Razzled fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 20:49
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I'd argue being a heavy sack of poo poo is what makes it a crap learner bike.
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Mar 19, 2021 21:07
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Slavvy posted:I'd argue being a heavy sack of poo poo is what makes it a crap learner bike. ^^^
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Mar 19, 2021 22:10
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DRZ400 is the best learner bike unless you are vertically challenged.
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Mar 20, 2021 01:11
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BIG DRYWALL MAN posted:DRZ400 is the best learner bike unless you are vertically challenged. Then it’s a lowered drz.
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Mar 20, 2021 01:27
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I'd say the XT225 or Super Sherpa is the perfect starter dual sport since they're lighter and have a six speed. The height of the DRZ could be too much for some new riders. Any of them can be dumped repeatedly without fear.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:18
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The lack of a 6 speed really doesn’t matter much on the drz. It’s torquey and tractory and doesn’t really need closer ratios. Would it be nice? Sure. Required? No
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Mar 20, 2021 18:37
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I'm currently on lunch break for my MSF and two notes. One- I stalled out more today than when learning to drive. Two- going 15mph felt like I was flying and it was awesome. It's too bad that it'll probably be months until I can get an appointment at the DMV to get my endorsement, and probably just as long to find a used bike that is fairly recent, in decent shape, and under 400cc.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:04
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To prevent stalling, when the clutch is held in, you can give it more revs than you think you should before easing the clutch out to get going. It's one of those things you think "woah, won't I go flying as soon as the clutch engages" and the answer is no, not unless you dump the clutch. Feather it gently. This is one of the most important things about learning to ride.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:23
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Coming from cars to small bikes is stall city for everyone I've seen do it, including myself. Slip the poo poo out of the clutch; if it feels like you're going to absolutely destroy it (if you were in a car), you're using it correctly. In a car the answer to stalling is either press the clutch and try again, or give it a load of gas and try to save it. On a bike you just keep revving and slip it more. You can't hurt it because it's a wet clutch being constantly sprayed with refreshing oil to keep it cool.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:32
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Since I'll be going in the opposite direction shortly, I have a feeling I may prematurely wear out a few car clutches while being a newbie driver...
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Mar 20, 2021 19:42
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I had the same issue with not wanting to slip the clutch enough, and for the same reason (learned on a 1981 Toyota pickup). And I'm pretty sure I'd do bad things to a car's clutch now too after being so used to bikes. I remember when I was first starting to ride on the street I'd have the occasional stall, then I went to a parking lot and spent five minutes just playing with the engagement of the clutch and after that I was fine.
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Mar 20, 2021 20:58
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Same here, pretty much all my issues with slow speed tight maneuvering during training was because I had a economic car driver mindset and didn't want my engine to rev significantly while using the clutch. Once I switched instructor and got a better answer to "Should I maybe be revving it a lot more even if it feels wrong?" I learned that you should just rev it a lot and then do everything with the clutch. Felt terrible at first to have my engine roaring up every time, but once I knew that this was what I needed to do everything became *a lot* easier.
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Mar 20, 2021 21:17
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Use ear plugs and you will be totally fine with revving the nuts off it. Use ear plugs anyway because you don't want tinnitus/worse tinnitus.
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Mar 20, 2021 21:24
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Slavvy posted:On a bike you just keep revving and slip it more. You can't hurt it because it's a wet clutch being constantly sprayed with refreshing oil to keep it cool. Ducati and BMW and Moto Guzzi waiting around the corner to gently caress up your day
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Mar 20, 2021 21:57
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Steakandchips posted:Since I'll be going in the opposite direction shortly, I have a feeling I may prematurely wear out a few car clutches while being a newbie driver... You’ll be fine. I learned motorcycle before stick and really didn’t have any issues at all, but maybe my mind just was able to divorce the two or something.
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Mar 20, 2021 22:01
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