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Sikhs were targeted for hate crimes during the War on Terror. US racism doesn't really care about the victims specifics.
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Mar 19, 2021 01:26
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Tesseraction posted:Weren't the majority of the victims Korean? you're assuming racists in america can tell the difference
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Mar 19, 2021 01:35
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side note: sometimes even we can't tell the difference, when i was visiting japan in 2019, the flight attendant gave me my immigration papers and started talking to me in japanese and i had to very gently explain to her that i was actually chinese
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Mar 19, 2021 01:36
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I wasn't saying the racist murderer was being specific. I was saying that the people saying "the guy who shot Asian women was protesting the PRC" are psychos.
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Mar 19, 2021 02:10
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HOW DARE THE PRC DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THE UIGHUR MINORITY *shoots a bunch of Korean women to death* i have ended the religious persecution of the chicoms
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Mar 19, 2021 02:13
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Tesseraction posted:I wasn't saying the racist murderer was being specific. I was saying that the people saying "the guy who shot Asian women was protesting the PRC" are psychos. who is saying this
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Mar 19, 2021 02:15
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3 posted:you're assuming racists in america can tell the difference It's this, the guy probably doesn't even have a coherent ideology beyond loving Jeezus and hating immigrants
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Mar 19, 2021 02:51
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Tesseraction posted:Weren't the majority of the victims Korean? I know that there's been this weird PRC tankie response to the racist serial murder about it being proof that anti-PRC propaganda caused this but if anything that's more a grossness on their end. I asked because I feel like there is an overwhelming pro-PRC line that I hear from this thread and a lot of people are posting PSL content as fact. I recognize that this is in part bc its detractors are often ghouls but I also think we need to pursue honest criticism Anyway I like most of you and I still consider Amerikkka to be the #1 enemy of the world, not trying to sound hostile. Carry on
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Mar 19, 2021 03:02
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I love when I poster reveals they have no idea what they're talking aboutTesseraction posted:Any particular focus? "China" is a pretty diverse topic so if you mean economic then look into critiques of Dengism and the move to state capitalism, "Dengism" much like, "obuamunism", is a made up term no one describes themselves as, the guy's been dead for decades. The PRC was state capitalist before deng in the sense that Leninism understands lower stage socialism to be a state capitalist economy controlled by a communist party. The USSR was understood to be state capitalist by it's theorists as well. The term your looking for is "market liberalization", and while Deng's reforms did have a big effect on the Chinese economy did not shift the control out of socialist control. (See the cambodian people's party for an example of a communist party actually abandoning socialism) Rather, China's economy is closer to the NEP or Tito's Yugoslavia. quote:if you mean cultural then look into stuff about Han supremacy, The PRC is 92% Han (an umbrella term so broad you might as well say "european") so looking at China in aggregate will reflect this fact. While Han chauvinism certainly exists it falls sort of racial supremacy. The CPC acknowledges this as a problem and tries to prevent the han from overstepping where it can. Such as by implementing affirmative action quotas in government and exempting minorities from the two child policy. Imagine for example if the government of South Carolina was required to be black, that level of affirmative action is unthinkable in America. The CPC goes out of its way to propagate the idea that China's minorities are as equally Chinese as the Han. As anyone who's viewed one of their parades can attest. quote:if about the governmental style then... tbh even Wikipedia can show you how comically onion-layered the system is. Thanks for admitting your cribbing wikipedia. In any case the government structure isn't that hard to understand. You have the local government twinned with the party itself. The former mainly maintains the various aspects of civil society whereas the latter enforces the party line on both government and private industry. Typically this means developing the economy according to the parties planning decisions and enforcing it's dominance over private business.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:04
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Yossarian-22 posted:I asked because I feel like there is an overwhelming pro-PRC line that I hear from this thread and a lot of people are posting PSL content as fact. I recognize that this is in part bc its detractors are often ghouls but I also think we need to pursue honest criticism Why are you so hellbent on equivocating America and China?
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Mar 19, 2021 04:22
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3 posted:you're assuming racists in america can tell the difference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_CaZ4EAexQ
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Mar 19, 2021 04:42
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Why are you so hellbent on equivocating America and China? this is something an an apologist for america (or serial china basher like matt stoller) would say if i compared america's surveillance state to china's and it would be just as insecure and and defensive as this post clearly is
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Mar 19, 2021 05:07
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Yossarian-22 posted:this is something an an apologist for america (or serial china basher like matt stoller) would say if i compared america's surveillance state to china's and it would be just as insecure and and defensive as this post clearly is This is literally whataboutism lmfao. America is currently detaining migrants in concentration camps, killing several countries with sanctions, and is bombing even more countries. Could you point me to where China is also doing all of this?
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Mar 19, 2021 05:14
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AnimeIsTrash posted:This is literally whataboutism lmfao. Whataboutism is literally a term invented by the U.S. to deflect Soviet criticisms, because of course those drat totalitarians would try to obfuscate their own abuses by pointing fingers at the West
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Mar 19, 2021 05:20
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are you trying to find out more about China's foreign policy, industrial development, labor organizations, Party structure, or nationalities policy? asking for a "leftist critique" of a whole country with billions of people sounds ridiculous.
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Mar 19, 2021 05:23
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Atrocious Joe posted:are you trying to find out more about China's foreign policy, industrial development, labor organizations, Party structure, or nationalities policy? any and all of the above. i'm just curious what would even be considered legitimate here and not the work of an anarcho-trotskyist-liberal-ciadjacent person not to be trusted. i mean to my understanding there is a lot of class struggle in china, maoism in china, and left opposition in china that isn't the likes of say, liu xiaobo, the dalai lama, ai weiwei, the hong kong protest movement, or any of the other people whom the west loves and who give protest movements against china a really horrible name
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Mar 19, 2021 05:31
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Not a leftist but chinese food is the worst in the asian continent, no contest
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Mar 19, 2021 05:34
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i'm not pro-prc, and think a lot of the kneejerk apologia from western leftists is short-sighted. at the same time, i'm very cautious about jumping on the anti-china bandwagons du jour. my position is basically that:
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Mar 19, 2021 05:55
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exmarx posted:i'm not pro-prc, and think a lot of the kneejerk apologia from western leftists is short-sighted. at the same time, i'm very cautious about jumping on the anti-china bandwagons du jour. my position is basically that: yeah don't get me wrong i 1000% agree with all this. again sorry if i ever come off as hostile or like i'm trying to stir up some poo poo
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Mar 19, 2021 05:56
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3 posted:side note: sometimes even we can't tell the difference, when i was visiting japan in 2019, the flight attendant gave me my immigration papers and started talking to me in japanese and i had to very gently explain to her that i was actually chinese My roommate is chinese but half the time he goes into a korean business they start trying to speak korean to him, and his response is to just awkwardly smile and bow
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Mar 19, 2021 05:59
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Mar 19, 2021 06:20
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Yossarian-22 posted:yeah don't get me wrong i 1000% agree with all this. again sorry if i ever come off as hostile or like i'm trying to stir up some poo poo For what it's worth, I didn't get the impression that you were trying to stir up poo poo by asking. I learned a lot from the responses to your question and now I have some reading to do. I'm a dumb guy but I'm working on it.
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Mar 19, 2021 06:41
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Greg Legg posted:For what it's worth, I didn't get the impression that you were trying to stir up poo poo by asking. I learned a lot from the responses to your question and now I have some reading to do. I'm a dumb guy but I'm working on it. most people aren't dumb, just educated completely wrong about history and material reality, and given lovely tools to analyze it, ON PURPOSE
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Mar 19, 2021 06:44
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i made this point in the eurasia thread, but i think it's pointless to try to find some sort of goldilocks zone of china criticism where it's not OBVIOUSLY western chauvinist war-mongering but it can't be TOO positive, the amount of criticism has to be just right. there's actually a bunch of those like chuang or "critical china scholars" or whatever, all calibrated to various levels of how can i do the neither washington nor beijing schtick but still feel like i'm on the left
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Mar 19, 2021 06:46
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exmarx posted:
there's a corollary to this where in every (western) news piece on china they absolutely have to refer to it as "the communist dictatorship" or "the authoritarian one-party state" at least once, even if it's just a one-paragraph notice about some tech company opening a new branch in Shenzhen
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Mar 19, 2021 08:35
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Comrade Koba posted:there's a corollary to this where in every (western) news piece on china they absolutely have to refer to it as "the communist dictatorship" or "the authoritarian one-party state" at least once, even if it's just a one-paragraph notice about some tech company opening a new branch in Shenzhen also “saving face” and “draconian”
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Mar 19, 2021 08:36
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Ferrinus posted:all calibrated to various levels of how can i do the neither washington nor beijing schtick but still feel like i'm on the left you clearly have some weird score to settle or bone to pick with a certain kind of leftist you don't like, lol
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Mar 19, 2021 09:04
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Yossarian-22 posted:I also think we need to pursue honest criticism to what end?
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Mar 19, 2021 09:05
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like honestly trying to discern what current English language American media is accurately portraying the situation in China seems like a fool’s errand, you’d probably have to learn Mandarin to even be able to make sense of it, and it would be a full time job, in order to be able to confidently say “it’s not as bad as the NYT portrays it” in a casual conversation about American foreign policy. nobody’s going there to do organizing, nobody’s looking to materially improve the conditions of the Uyghyrs. they just don’t want to be called a tankie, on the internet. I’m also guilty of this and wondering why the gently caress I care so much. death to america.
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Mar 19, 2021 09:09
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indigi posted:like honestly trying to discern what current English language American media is accurately portraying the situation in China seems like a fool’s errand, you’d probably have to learn Mandarin to even be able to make sense of it, and it would be a full time job, in order to be able to confidently say “it’s not as bad as the NYT portrays it” in a casual conversation about American foreign policy. nobody’s going there to do organizing, nobody’s looking to materially improve the conditions of the Uyghyrs. they just don’t want to be called a tankie, on the internet. I’m also guilty of this and wondering why the gently caress I care so much. death to america. Uyghur situation isn't what comes to mind here for me; I think any American whining about another country's dirty laundry is inherently pathetic and especially when that country isn't on the U.S. payroll. I guess I think questioning China from the left is something I consider important for the same reason why questioning the rise of the U.S. as a "decolonizing power" was important in the late 19th-early 20th century when so many decolonizing movements looked to it for inspiration. I think people are understandably desperate for an alternative to global neoliberalism though
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Mar 19, 2021 09:34
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for what it's worth Yossarian I think you're being sincere in your intentions but I don't know how to really answer your question of "what can I read that criticizes China that isn't just Western propaganda?" (or Trotskyism) I thought Farber's "Cuba Since the Revolution of 1959" was rather fair in its critiques* of Cuba, wrong country though (and I wouldn't go so far as apropros to nothing that Cuba underwent a "Bonapartist" turn) I'm currently reading "Deng Xiaoping's Long War", and it's been interesting as far as tackling an aspect of China that doesn't really put it in a good light, though I'm only about two chapters in
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Mar 19, 2021 09:49
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Dreddout posted:I love when I poster reveals they have no idea what they're talking about Lol at including both of these in the same post. Name these theorists. It's possible you've just phrased this badly and mean the IS tradition but don't just sneak that in there as a fair accompli or whatever.
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Mar 19, 2021 10:07
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from R Miliband's "Marxism and Politics":quote:‘State capitalism’ was used by Lenin to denote two different situations: firstly, that already described by Engels, in which the state plays an ever greater role in the productive process of advanced capitalism. Germany, he wrote in ‘Left-Wing’ Childishness and the Petty-Bourgeois Mentality of 1918, was “‘the last word” in modern large-scale capitalist engineering and planned organisation, subordinated to Iunker-bourgeois imperialism’.‘“’ The second situation was an altogether different one, in which ‘state capitalism’ is used by Lenin in a much more imprecise and blurred sense, namely the post-revolutionary situation in Russia, when he wanted the Soviet government to foster the growth of capitalist enterprise under the strict supervision of the Soviet government and in accordance with ‘national accounting and control’.5° State capitalism in this case is characterized by the detailed control which a revolutionary workers’ state exercises over capitalist production.
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Mar 19, 2021 10:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ONRf7h3Mdk
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Mar 19, 2021 13:05
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Mar 19, 2021 14:07
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pieuvre armement posted:Not a leftist but chinese food is the worst in the asian continent, no contest nooo dude gently caress nooo authentic Chinese food ftw. also hot pot ftw ftw
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Mar 19, 2021 14:18
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wtf no, proper chinese food is great the worst is probably something from the islands, like bali or something
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Mar 19, 2021 14:32
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Yossarian-22 posted:I asked because I feel like there is an overwhelming pro-PRC line that I hear from this thread and a lot of people are posting PSL content as fact. I recognize that this is in part bc its detractors are often ghouls but I also think we need to pursue honest criticism PSL content is fact, comrade.
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Mar 19, 2021 15:37
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Dreddout posted:"Dengism" much like, "obuamunism", is a made up term no one describes themselves as, the guy's been dead for decades. I never said they had abandoned socialism? As you said the Leninist model requires this stage of state capitalism. My point was more that Deng's premiership saw a break with orthodox Maoism and that in the modern day this public-private partnership corporate model is not something you'd have predicted prior to Deng taking the reins. Dreddout posted:The PRC is 92% Han (an umbrella term so broad you might as well say "european") so looking at China in aggregate will reflect this fact. This is a fair criticism to say it's more chauvenism but it's mostly coming from me talking to Chinese ex-pats critical of family back home who would be more likely to report on what we'd consider "your racist uncle" in the west who are definitely more supremacist over chauvenist. I'm not pretending that China is treating all ethnic minorities like the Uighur, but I assumed when Yossarian was asking they were looking for more critical views. Dreddout posted:Thanks for admitting your cribbing wikipedia. In any case the government structure isn't that hard to understand. You have the local government twinned with the party itself. The former mainly maintains the various aspects of civil society whereas the latter enforces the party line on both government and private industry. Typically this means developing the economy according to the parties planning decisions and enforcing it's dominance over private business. I mean, of all the topics Wikipedia is going to be decent at documenting bureaucracy, it's basically their raison d'etre. China's governance system has to manage a country of over a billion people, so of course it's going to be more than just two layers. More to the point I was asking for general topics he was interested in so I could ask people more informed than me - I wasn't pretending I was the expert on any of these topics but I know people not on SA I could ask.
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Mar 19, 2021 15:41
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Mao's whole idea of New Democracy and the Bloc of Four Classes was that the petit bourgeoisie and national bourgeoisie would ally with the peasants and workers to destroy imperialism, both Western and Japanese, but that the latter would ultimately defeat the former and establish socialism. Hence the cultural revolution happened when Mao sensed that things weren't going his way. And yeah it had some basis in Lenin's early thought process for how he would ultimately establish socialism in a semifeudal country iirc
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Mar 19, 2021 16:53
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