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TBH if you were going to allow magic items at all I would create a specific list of items to choose from rather than blanket rarity rules. If one were allowing items at all it's probably because they have some specific ideas in mind, so its best to just specify what those are (e.g., Magic Weapon +1, Ring of Protection +1, etc) rather than leave to the players to find the most broken item they can within the restrictions. Items in the same rarity band are not 'balanced' in any appreciable way that you can trust.
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Mar 21, 2021 02:12
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Honestly, at that level it feels like it's going to come down to who puts together the strongest alpha strike and then how initiative shakes out. Like, double fireball poo poo from all the characters is straight up unsurvivable if it gets to happen. I'm sure someone here could cook up a defensive build to survive that kind of thing, but that doesn't seem like a winning strategy for the length of the fight.
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Mar 21, 2021 02:21
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FrozenPhoenix71 posted:Depends, how good are her jokes normally? I would never admit this where she could see it, but ... really good. She’s kind of a dick joke connoisseur, too. Cthulu Carl posted:Be a Fathomless Warlock but have a backstory about being an art aficionado. objectively correct answer
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Mar 21, 2021 03:23
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Azathoth posted:Honestly, at that level it feels like it's going to come down to who puts together the strongest alpha strike and then how initiative shakes out. Like, double fireball poo poo from all the characters is straight up unsurvivable if it gets to happen. Yeah it would definitely come down to an initial strike, though detection would play into it. I don't think you can come up with two fireballs given five levels and an uncommon item, though I'd be game to hear about it. I'd probably start with a Fighter 2 / Gloomstalker 3 archer, since they'll dump out four big attacks the first turn. Then I'd tie in the Archery combat focus, and a Longbow+1, and both the Alert and Sharpshooter feats (Human Variant), which would ensure you'd win the initiative battle (+11) and starting with bonus action Hunter's Mark it would pump the damage up to four +1 attacks with a total damage of 6d8+4d6+56 piercing. If there's any darkness in the arena, then you'll be innately invisible even against Darkvision enemies and get advantage on all those attacks. Dealing an average of 96 damage before crits or misses you'd be able to take down virtually anyone before they could act, and it would probably do well with the kind of Hide / Invisibility tricks that battles will probably turn into. Now if the DM meant to restrict all sub-classes to PHB as well, I'm not quite so sure. Battlemaster would still get off 4d8+56 the first round and would probably hit with Precision Strike. A Wood Elf Assassin would have lots of hiding potential. A Fiend Warlock would probably do well with Eldritch Blast and using their spells for Counterspell, Darkness, or Fireball. A Divination Wizard could probably make good use of Portent, but the rules aren't clear if they'd actually be eligible to use it. Kaal fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 04:05
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Never mind, too many nonsensical rules to track.
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Mar 21, 2021 04:29
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Toshimo posted:Never mind, too many nonsensical rules to track. "Great! What do you call it?" "5th Edition!"
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Mar 21, 2021 04:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:things that bother me about Critical Role: I think they got into the habit of doing it to differentiate between a total of 20 and a crit, since they use the skill check crit house rule. I have seen games where Matt asks if it's a total of [x] or a natural [x], but I can't remember why. It seems like if it's not a crit it shouldn't matter, but there's probably an edge case where it does or it factors into something. I think sam does it mockingly but Marisha seems to do it in earnest and I think a couple of the others have picked it up without knowing why they do it. I kind of do this at home and will usually say 'rolled 19, +1 so... total 20' just to make it nice and clear to the DM. Again I probably don't need to, but I just like to make it clear and have kind of got into the habit of doing it now without really thinking. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 04:48
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I can't speak to Mercer's game but I have definitely played at tables where, if I just tell someone the result of my roll, they straight up don't believe me. Me: I rolled a 24. DM: How? What did you roll? Me: A 16. DM: On the die? Me: ...yes? 16 + 8 is 24? DM: Oh. Okay.
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Mar 21, 2021 04:59
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My group and I do it too but mostly because it's often faster than doing the math in our heads. "Oh I rolled a natural 3. Yeah I'm not able to hit what I'm going for." "I rolled a uh... natural 18" to show that you either got so high that you definitely hit without even bothering to add the numbers together or you rolled so low that no amount of feasible numbers could make it. It's not something we do every time but sometimes when you've got math and the dice have basically declared Yes or No it's faster to just say "aaand I rolled a 4" and not even bother counting
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Mar 21, 2021 06:15
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Mendrian posted:I can't speak to Mercer's game but I have definitely played at tables where, if I just tell someone the result of my roll, they straight up don't believe me. I quit a game a couple months ago because they were still making me do this poo poo 6 sessions in. Like, I've got my poo poo together before my turn, so I move my mini, roll 1d20 and 2d6, and say "I hit AC 20 for 14 damage". But nah, I must be lying, you'd better ask me about every step of the process I went through to get that perfectly normal number until I might as well be the guy who goes "I uh, I attack, so um, that's a d20. Where's my d20? Right so, um, 13. That's pretty low. I don't think that hits. But I've got a proficiency bonus. That's 2. So um that makes uh 15. Still not that great. And uh... strength? Yeah, that's 3. Makes it um, 5. Plus the fifteen no wait thirteen, so Uh, 18. And oh and the sword! Yeah that's a plus two. So that's 20. I hit AC 20. Um. With the sword. Does... where's... does anyone have another d6? OK cool so five damage. Oh yeah, magic sword, so..." Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 08:14
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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:I quit a game a couple months ago because they were still making me do this poo poo 6 sessions in. God that poo poo would drive me up the wall, that feels pretty drat disrespectful to not even trust you to know the most basic part of the system when you've demonstrated you know what you're doing.
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Mar 21, 2021 11:14
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kingcom posted:God that poo poo would drive me up the wall, that feels pretty drat disrespectful to not even trust you to know the most basic part of the system when you've demonstrated you know what you're doing. I'd start doing it to the DM until they either realized how obnoxious it was or booted me. "You hit my AC 19? How? What'd you roll? What's their bonus? Magic weapon, or nah?"
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Mar 21, 2021 11:20
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Devorum posted:I'd start doing it to the DM until they either realized how obnoxious it was or booted me. What do you know, I'm rolling nothing but natural 20s against your character. No, you can't see behind the screen.
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Mar 21, 2021 13:17
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Devorum posted:I'd start doing it to the DM until they either realized how obnoxious it was or booted me. Yeah nah, just tell people it's frustrating to have this happen and if they don't show some basic respect to the problem you're presenting it's a good indication to leave that game.. Rutibex posted:What do you know, I'm rolling nothing but natural 20s against your character. No, you can't see behind the screen. This is embarrassing, don't ever do this.
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Mar 21, 2021 13:39
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Bobby Deluxe posted:It doesn't annoy me, but then I'm not sure of the value of it either. Yeah, i just find it vaguely irritating because the only time the "natural" number matters is if it's a 1 or a 20. Otherwise, all that matters is the final number. So just add your modifiers and tell us what you actually rolled. It's unnecessary information; noise not signal. I realize I'm the one with the problem here.
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Mar 21, 2021 13:55
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Most of the time I see people do it, it's because it actually helps them get to the total in the first place. If you can do the math quickly yourself, it's very easy to take for granted but not everyone can. Especially when the numbers get larger. It's also not uncommon for people to still get the total wrong either. Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 14:09
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It's just a verbiage issue. Just differentiate your roll from your attack, as in "I rolled a 14 for an attack of 18". Then if someone asks you, "What did you roll?" You can respond, "My attack is 18", or "14 + 4 for 18 to hit" Oh and instead of saying, "I rolled a 20", just say "rolled a crit". Referring to crits and misses rather than 20 or 1 clears up typical confusion. Kaal fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 14:10
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At CR they do it for ease of play, as a signifier for Matt that they obviously rolled high enough to succeed but don't know the exact number, but are going to go ahead and roll damage or Matt can go ahead and proceed. It's to take out ambiguity and speed things along. If they know the enemy has an AC between 12 and 14 and they rolled a nat 13 (with +whatever on attack), saying they rolled a 13 would prompt Matt to ask if that was the total or not? It never bothered me in the slightest.
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Mar 21, 2021 14:27
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Taeke posted:
Oh yeah I realize I'm the one with the problem
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Mar 21, 2021 14:35
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Yeah they do it a bunch in the Starfinder and Pathfinder games I watch/listen to Where at some point look if they roll like a natty 18 they will hit without doing all that math. If it's a high AC or DC check the DM will know to ask for the full amount.
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Mar 21, 2021 14:39
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I guess if the total is 20 it's helpful to know, and it might also be helpful if the total is over 20 to know if a crit (assuming you're using that house rule) was involved. eg, you say you got a total of 23 to hit. If you got there via 18 rolled and +5 str, it's just a 'you beat their AC' roll. If you got there via nat 20 and +3 str, then it's still a crit. It could also mean that if the AC is 24, you'd hit with a 20+3 but not an 18+5. In Crit Role Matt also seems to use the old Pathfinder RP mechanic of embellishing the descriptions of the rolls based on how far away they are from the target number. So his description of a hit that crits, a hit that *just* hits and a hit that is +5 over what was needed are all going to sound different. Don't forget they have to let the audience know what's going on as well. There was a lot of upset among players who were just following the narrative and not the mechanics when Mollymauk died. Narratively, Matt described one thing happening whereas I think he described it that way to cover up that mechanically, what happened was actually pretty embarrassing - they explained it in the related episode of Talks, but IIRC, Taliesin used Blood Maledict at the highest level he could, which he referred to as 'empowered' at the time. It failed, and backfired dealing so much damage to him that it would have sent him past his maximum in negative HP, which is instadeath, no saves. This is why he said 'gently caress, my Blood Maledict is gonna kill me.' Matt then flaired the description as him knocking himself out, and then Lorenzo stabbing him through the heart. I don't think even some of the people at the table realised what had happened because IIRC Laura and Sam were asking why he didn't get death saves. A lot of fans who weren't privy to those mechanics thought that Matt's description was the NPC choosing to do it, and obviously were mad at him for what it looked like. kingcom posted:God that poo poo would drive me up the wall, that feels pretty drat disrespectful to not even trust you to know the most basic part of the system when you've demonstrated you know what you're doing. Plus a lot of my current group are new, so it helps to say things like 'i'm using feinting attack as a bonus action to get advantage, I rolled a 17 and a 12, so that's 17+5 is 22 to hit. 2d6 damage, reroll that 2 because of my great weapon style so 4 and 3, +3 for strength, so that's 10 damage. And I'm going to action surge to hit him again, 15+5 is 20, 2D6 damage, reroll that 1, +3 for strength... 11 damage." It seems to go better than just rolling a bunch of dice and then saying 'I do 21 damage' without mentioning any of the choices, mechanics or rolls used to get there. Also if I'm honest I do it because I half expect someone to say 'oh you can't use that ability there.' Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 15:29
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Don't forget they have to let the audience know what's going on as well. There was a lot of upset among players who were just following the narrative and not the mechanics when Mollymauk died. Narratively, Matt described one thing happening whereas I think he described it that way to cover up that mechanically, what happened was actually pretty embarrassing - they explained it in the related episode of Talks, but IIRC, Taliesin used Blood Maledict at the highest level he could, which he referred to as 'empowered' at the time. It failed, and backfired dealing so much damage to him that it would have sent him past his maximum in negative HP, which is instadeath, no saves. This is why he said 'gently caress, my Blood Maledict is gonna kill me.' He didn't go to max negative HP, he said "kill me" in the sense of going to 0 HP. He only had X HP remaining so he went to 0, but the bad guy had already begun his two attacks, and it wouldn't have made story sense for him to stop, so that was two automatic critical hits for 4 out of 3 failed death saves. Charging into melee with an untouched boss enemy while he was almost dead was a very poorly thought-out plan.
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Mar 21, 2021 17:33
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its kind of arbitrary but i guess its their way of highlighting that they rolled well, because it is easier to see a roll of 18 and immediately go "great, this is certainly a hit" than calculating the number and confirming this. of course on the other hand players are far more likely to ask you if a 32 hits knowing it drat loving well does
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Mar 21, 2021 17:38
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pog boyfriend posted:on the other hand players are far more likely to ask you if a 32 hits knowing it drat loving well does My DM does this to us all the time. Like "oh hey, buddy, does a 28 hit your druid?" Fair's fair! 
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Mar 21, 2021 17:53
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kingcom posted:God that poo poo would drive me up the wall, that feels pretty drat disrespectful to not even trust you to know the most basic part of the system when you've demonstrated you know what you're doing. I’ve been DMing games for over a year and one of my players still has to check every stat on his character sheet before doing anything. He has no clue what his bonuses are, what weapons he has, what spells it abilities he has. He often doesn’t even know where he is on the map, what direction he’s facing, etc.
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Mar 21, 2021 18:44
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I’ve been DMing games for over a year and one of my players still has to check every stat on his character sheet before doing anything. He has no clue what his bonuses are, what weapons he has, what spells it abilities he has. He often doesn’t even know where he is on the map, what direction he’s facing, etc. I legitimately wonder how someone manages to go so long without being able to remember this stuff. Is he always extremely drunk/stoned or something?
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Mar 21, 2021 18:52
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I legitimately wonder how someone manages to go so long without being able to remember this stuff. Is he always extremely drunk/stoned or something? I play in a game with one player who has been playing a cleric for the past 9 months. He still has trouble remembering he can use his spiritual weapon as a bonus action the turns after he cast it, even if he cast another spell. He always forgets his disciple of life feature (he is life domain) when giving out healing so the person ends up having to ask him how much bonus healing they get. Some people just suck at dealing with their character sheet and I don't get it.
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Mar 21, 2021 19:05
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My DM does this to us all the time. Like "oh hey, buddy, does a 28 hit your druid?" Fair's fair! Me too, I love sarcastically asking the tanky paladin if a 30 hits their AC
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Mar 21, 2021 19:07
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change my name posted:Me too, I love sarcastically asking the tanky paladin if a 30 hits their AC Well since I have mirror image up.....NO. (Gotta love the Bardadin) Madmarker fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 19:10
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I use "just hits" when the players hit a monster on exactly it's AC, and "I rolled a natural 17" after we have been playing I know this player adds +5 to their roll to attack, that's perfectly fine. I also hear "(n)+ A LOT!" which is usually more than fair. If the monster's AC is 15, and you rolled a 14 on the die, you can just say "natty 14" and it's fine. I also use the vernacular "dirty" for 20s for the opposite of natural, so if you say "dirty 20" it would mean you didn't roll 20 on the die, but did arrive there through bonuses.
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Mar 21, 2021 19:19
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I insist my players roll the d20 before looking up their bonuses so in the obvious cases of a hit (nat 13 up against an unexceptional opponent by a competent attacker) we can keep moving
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Mar 21, 2021 19:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I legitimately wonder how someone manages to go so long without being able to remember this stuff. Is he always extremely drunk/stoned or something? This is why I'm never giving up VTTs, even if I go back to in person sessions. So much better for the flow of combat and story to not have to spend time totalling up bonuses and making sure everyone does the math right, just double click and boom there's the roll, the final number, and the result. We had a fun fight last session where my players and an enemy spellcaster (with meatshields) got into an AoE artillery duel, and it was so smooth for something that would have been a nightmare on a grid with minis. Players drew up a shape to determine what got hit and what didn't, targeted the ones that did, the clicked one button for saving throws and another for damage and it was done. Then rinse and repeat that like a half dozen times over a couple rounds.
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Mar 21, 2021 19:44
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:He didn't go to max negative HP, he said "kill me" in the sense of going to 0 HP. He only had X HP remaining so he went to 0, but the bad guy had already begun his two attacks, and it wouldn't have made story sense for him to stop, so that was two automatic critical hits for 4 out of 3 failed death saves. Charging into melee with an untouched boss enemy while he was almost dead was a very poorly thought-out plan.
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Mar 21, 2021 20:04
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Azathoth posted:This is why I'm never giving up VTTs, even if I go back to in person sessions. So much better for the flow of combat and story to not have to spend time totalling up bonuses and making sure everyone does the math right, just double click and boom there's the roll, the final number, and the result. My trouble is getting to a player's turn in a VTT and getting 'oh uh wait one second' when I know they just have to hit the fuckin "roll attack" button that hasn't moved from the same place it's been since the dawn of time.
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Mar 21, 2021 20:20
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Taeke posted:At CR they do it for ease of play, as a signifier for Matt that they obviously rolled high enough to succeed but don't know the exact number, but are going to go ahead and roll damage or Matt can go ahead and proceed.
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Mar 21, 2021 20:21
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With the spoilered talk of CR above, what's people's opinions on the best way to warn players 'this enemy / encounter is too high level for you' without just outright meta-warning the players outside the campaign? And how do you escalate those warnings if / when the players don't listen? Just skipping through the Talks episode I couldn't find a timestamp for them breaking down the mechanics (so I must have misremembered that), but they did go into how after the fact, it was clear Matt threw them a lot of hints even to the point of taking a while getting the battle map out and getting them to really think about how they were going to do it, asking them multiple times if they wanted to go ahead etc. It kind of seemed from his description like he was expecting the group to take them out one by one, which was what they ended up doing when they later raided the keep, but even then they had extra help.
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Mar 21, 2021 20:39
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I think the best is just to tell them OOC. But if you must do it in game, you can have an NPC acquaintance that they already know is stronger than them get one shotted by the enemy so they can see it for themselves.
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Mar 21, 2021 21:16
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Bobby Deluxe posted:With the spoilered talk of CR above, what's people's opinions on the best way to warn players 'this enemy / encounter is too high level for you' without just outright meta-warning the players outside the campaign? And how do you escalate those warnings if / when the players don't listen? Tbqh it's pretty difficult to do in character. Enemies that seem to handily outclass the PCs on paper can turn out to be quite fragile in practice, if you aren't cheating. So trying to communicate that an npc is out of a character's league in strictly mechanical terms can be a fools option, since the PCs may very well waltz up to them and crit them for an eighth of their total hp. After that, they won't look threatening even if they are. I recommend ooc cues but if you absolutely must do it in character: *Use an established character or group of characters that the players know are at or above their own level. The enemy dispatches this proxy immediately. Sadly this trick only really works once. *Use meta knowledge. If a player familiar with D&D meets a Rakshasha when they are level 1, they are going to poo poo their pants a little. If the players have no meta knowledge of D&D this can have the opposite effect. *Use debilitating but not fatal abilities that the players have no way of dealing with. A mystical poison, powerful ability drain, ect. This should generally send the message. *gently caress it. Just have the enemy defeat them...but not kill them.
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Mar 21, 2021 21:20
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Madmarker posted:I play in a game with one player who has been playing a cleric for the past 9 months. He still has trouble remembering he can use his spiritual weapon as a bonus action the turns after he cast it, even if he cast another spell. He always forgets his disciple of life feature (he is life domain) when giving out healing so the person ends up having to ask him how much bonus healing they get. Some people just suck at dealing with their character sheet and I don't get it. It’s okay to have custom character sheets that have the 5 or so main abilities the character can do on a turn with all the math and rider effects already calculated in for those abilities. Mostly you’ll see this for pre-gen characters in a beginner set or one shot. But there’s no reason it can’t be done for a PC in a campaign. nelson fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 21:40
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Mendrian posted:Tbqh it's pretty difficult to do in character. Enemies that seem to handily outclass the PCs on paper can turn out to be quite fragile in practice, if you aren't cheating. So trying to communicate that an npc is out of a character's league in strictly mechanical terms can be a fools option, since the PCs may very well waltz up to them and crit them for an eighth of their total hp. After that, they won't look threatening even if they are. Sentries don't have to pursue retreating enemies, they're more likely to want to disengage themselves to raise the alarm in case this is part of a wider attack even if they just turned the party's meatshield into a pincushion. The cave slime that's just minding its own business at the mouth of the cave might not want to pursue the PCs out into the sunlight even after beating them senseless. Or maybe, as you say, the PCs are defeated and captured by the enemy. Now there's either a prison break or maybe they just get ransomed back by the rich family of one of the PCs, and now the PCs gotta go work off that debt by <insert plot advancing task here>.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:55
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