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PostNouveau posted:That's pretty hosed up though. China should stop doing that. yea it's not good to do and they should stop, but trying to turn 'this is hosed up' to 'this is some cartoonish levels of sadism and genocide' doesn't really help. I guess if it was just 'China over-polices minority groups' there'd be no real room for the US to condemn it.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:10
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sexpig by night posted:yea it's not good to do and they should stop, but trying to turn 'this is hosed up' to 'this is some cartoonish levels of sadism and genocide' doesn't really help. I guess if it was just 'China over-polices minority groups' there'd be no real room for the US to condemn it. It is very important to frame this stuff in a way that does NOT cause people to think of the ways the US treats its own contemporary black, hispanic, and indigenous population
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Mar 22, 2021 15:11
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Even if it was a full on genocide the US doesnt have a leg to stand on, the poo poo in Yemen isn't even the first genocide it's committed in the last 20 years
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Mar 22, 2021 15:24
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the bitcoin of weed posted:every thread in C-SPAM becomes the China thread eventually i was wondering if some new state dept propaganda dropped or something, all of a sudden everyones talking about it
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Mar 22, 2021 15:25
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commielingus posted:The commies are skinning people alive! The thing is, you don't need for all of the claims, or even some of the claims, to be real. You just have to inject enough doubt into someone for them to be able to go "but surely SOMETHING is going on in there, right???" like, you talk someone down from the claim that they're death camps, but now they're still concentration camps and then you talk them down from concentration camps, but now they're still re-education camps and then you talk them down from "it's not actually millions of people getting sent to the camps", and mere hundreds-of-thousands of people getting sent to the camps is still bad... never mind that that estimate comes from interviews with EIGHT people making guesses at how many people in their respective villages were going to the camps... and then expanding the average of those estimates to apply to every village in Xinjiang or you talk someone down from "they're forcibly sterilizing Uyghurs", and you're left with "okay, so the penalty for violating the two-child policy is getting IUDs implanted in you, and it applies to all ethnicities, not just Uyghurs, and the birth rates of the Han population would count as a genocide under the standards of the people asserting that this is a genocide of the Uyghurs" and it's STILL bad because the implantation of birth control to people who don't want it is a human rights violation and at the end of all of it the needle hasn't really moved at all because the person on the other end still supports antagonizing China and sanctioning them and sending the USS Gabby Giffords on gunboat diplomacy patrols across the Taiwan Strait and you saw this with the invasion of Iraq! okay, so the only reason Saddam gassed the Kurds was because we gave him the chemical weapons... but he's still got nukes okay, so Saddam did let all of the UN inspectors do all of their inspecting... but what about all the places we DIDN'T inspect, hmm? okay, so we invaded Iraq, and we didn't actually find any nukes... but wait here are some chemical and biological weapons! What's that? Those were holdouts from the 80s when we were giving him that stuff? Well, WE STILL FOUND WMDs RAH RAH RAH
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Mar 22, 2021 15:28
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I mean they release new poo poo everyday now, it's just the same recycled nonsense from the same gallery of grotesques.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:28
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a Loving Dog posted:i was wondering if some new state dept propaganda dropped or something, all of a sudden everyones talking about it theres definitely a new level of internalized feedback and messaging heading towards criticality right now. like half my family/friends social media is china scare stuff right now. my grandmother emailed me because shes scared about china. biden's passed his Most Progressive Bill In History now and so we need to inflate the now is not the time boogey man for the next four years and have something that national prop 22 can point to to say we need to compete and reinvent the american workforce
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Mar 22, 2021 15:34
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it speaks to how poor Chinese soft power is given how muted alternative news sources like RT or AJE is about Chinese stuff these days left Twitter likes to bring up Wolf warrior journos like Chen Weihua but he doesn’t have many followers and just sounds dumb most of the time
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Mar 22, 2021 15:40
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a Loving Dog posted:i was wondering if some new state dept propaganda dropped or something, all of a sudden everyones talking about it us is trying to get Americans to forget that China whipped our rear end silly in controlling covid and that our country is dying
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Mar 22, 2021 15:46
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shrike82 posted:it speaks to how poor Chinese soft power is given how muted alternative news sources like RT or AJE is about Chinese stuff these days You nailed it dude, we bring up Chen to own the US and not because he makes funny posts.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:50
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classics such as https://twitter.com/chenweihua/status/1373647840371732484?s=20
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Mar 22, 2021 16:01
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Speaking of carceral states! https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1373982799103987716
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Mar 22, 2021 16:17
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KomradeX posted:Even if it was a full on genocide the US doesnt have a leg to stand on, the poo poo in Yemen isn't even the first genocide it's committed in the last 20 years If you ask the average westerner if the US has ever committed a genocide there's like a 50/50 chance they answer "no, never" and "the Native Americans I guess". Like, we're total outliers knowing anything at all about the situation in Yemen, let alone the US' involvement. Whereas most people would have some idea of the US police maybe being slightly racist sometimes including in the present day.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:12
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https://twitter.com/Salon/status/1374013773489537026
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Mar 22, 2021 17:15
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lol christ just straight up 'we can't talk about this issue, that's what THEY want'
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Mar 22, 2021 17:19
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yeah okay guys a whole province's birthrate halved in two years because China started making folks recite the pledge of allegiance in schools
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Mar 22, 2021 17:38
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Wow I can't believe someone said that. What an idiot. Could you show me the moron who said that so I can yell at him too?
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Mar 22, 2021 17:40
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Zedhe Khoja posted:Wow I can't believe someone said that. What an idiot. Could you show me the moron who said that so I can yell at him too? Mandoric posted:And more notably that one of Xinjiang's competitors for highest birthrate in the years before its drop appears to have done 18-11 and change in the same timeframe as Xinjiang did 16-8 and change. sexpig by night posted:Yea pretty much, the cops there are treating Uyghurs poorly and that's not alright by any means and a lot of their punishments do indeed involve dumb 'patriotism classes' style poo poo mixed with genuine work skills training and the locals have fair reason to go 'hey stop loving with us' but there's not some mass ethnic cleansing going on. Again we have a lot more testimony of people from those situations saying 'yea I mean no poo poo going to weird patriotism jail sucked rear end but no it was mostly just normal stuff, the cops are probably bigoted against us though' than we do these weird second hand 'my cousin's sister said she saw a guard at the camp shoot a baby with a flame thrower', so either tricky China has finally mastered their mind control ray and has really brainwashed all these people or it's just an authoritarian government being authoritarian and a bunch of weird liars literally cashing checks from the CIA and State Department.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:42
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I can't believe anyone would have skepticism towards claims about
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Mar 22, 2021 17:42
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None of those are saying what you claim they're saying.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:44
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a Loving Dog posted:i was wondering if some new state dept propaganda dropped or something, all of a sudden everyones talking about it theres a ton of leftists who will make the soy face at every winnie the pooh meme thinking they are sticking it to the chinese billionaires without considering that this is entirely an intentional distraction from the worsening conditions at home. so you end up with everyone arguing about if china has camps or not instead of talking about the camps full of brown people here in the united states we could set free at any time.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:46
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Or our own ongoing genocide, which they could theoretically put pressure on their own nominally democratic government to end, but have studiously chosen to ignore or soyface about Biden clickdragging all the items in "offensive aid" into the "defensive aid" part of the Saudi Guns spreadsheet even as he completely shuts down fuel shipments into Hodeida causing all of the food aid to rot on the side of the road.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:51
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spacemang_spliff posted:I can't believe anyone would have skepticism towards claims about maybe they can bring colon powell back to address the un
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Mar 22, 2021 17:55
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Zedhe Khoja posted:None of those are saying what you claim they're saying. Yeah someone even pointed this out. https://twitter.com/GFPhilosophy/status/1364608623817596929 The original person behind the graph seems to retweet/defend Zenz. Sure sounds like a good source to me. 
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Mar 22, 2021 17:55
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Posting b4 Eugene V. Dubstep opens a QCS thread and has a huge meltdown like he did when pick got probed for a couple of days.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:59
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AnimeIsTrash posted:The original person behind the graph seems to retweet/defend Zenz. Sure sounds like a good source to me. You can verify it yourself starting here and working backward to 2010. The relevant section is '2-8 Total Population by Urban and Rural Residence, Birth Rate, Death Rate, Natural Growth Rate and by Region (2019)': http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm e: the relevant two year period (birth rate is the third column from the right) 2017:  2019: 
Eugene V. Dubstep has issued a correction as of 18:06 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:02
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No ones denying the birthrate drop. Only the discussing the reason and implications of it. Why can't you post in good faith? e: like we're having a serious discussion about a serious issue of civil rights and you barge in here with this poo poo. Don't you have like an ounce of shame about doing this poo poo to own your posting enemies or whatever?
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Mar 22, 2021 18:05
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:You can verify it yourself starting here and working backward to 2010. The relevant section is '2-8 Total Population by Urban and Rural Residence, Birth Rate, Death Rate, Natural Growth Rate and by Region (2019)': http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm You're missing the point though. There are multiple factors that could effect the birthrate, and it's crazy acting like this is some kind of smoking gun. https://twitter.com/MyUKnumber4/status/1364819562881982466
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Mar 22, 2021 18:06
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Zedhe Khoja posted:No ones denying the birthrate drop. Only the discussing the reason and implications of it. Why can't you post in good faith? animeistrash explicitly questioned the birthrate drop when he said the source of the graph, which only shows birthrate, is suspect Zedhe Khoja posted:e: like we're having a serious discussion about a serious issue of civil rights and you barge in here with this poo poo. Don't you have like an ounce of shame about doing this poo poo to own your posting enemies or whatever? I don't know any of you lol
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Mar 22, 2021 18:07
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what’s that other province that experiences the same drop in birth rate over 17-18? another genocide?
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Mar 22, 2021 18:08
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World War Mammories posted:what’s that other province that experiences the same drop in birth rate over 17-18? another genocide? there is no other province that experiences such a severe and sustained birthrate drop https://twitter.com/jnzst/status/1364534538764869632 e: but the one you're talking about is Shandong. 2017:  e2: Xinhua doesn't speculate on why it happened but Western and Indian sources seem to peg it to the demographic contraction and cultural change that came out of two decades of the one child policy Eugene V. Dubstep has issued a correction as of 18:23 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:09
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:You can verify it yourself starting here and working backward to 2010. The relevant section is '2-8 Total Population by Urban and Rural Residence, Birth Rate, Death Rate, Natural Growth Rate and by Region (2019)': http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2020/indexeh.htm as was actually said in the tweet, birthrate alone is not an indication of anything, as that's about the most variable things possible to draw conclusions from. I'm pretty sure both India and Japan have had huge slopes down in birthrate over a bit of time, would you say that those are proof of nefarious activity done to those people too or would you look at other factors? Meanwhile here's an article on the figures that goes into more detail. I'm sure Global Times is somehow lest trustworthy than Zenz and his 'non-profits' like Victims of Communism, though. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212073.shtml quote:Family planning policy is strictly practiced. According to the 2017 amendment of the Population and Family Planning Ordinance of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang enjoy equal rights in family planning. Specifically, each registered urban couple is permitted to bear two children at most and each registered rural couple permitted to have three children at most. Any violation of the ordinance is subject to due penalty. In the meanwhile, special funds rewarding birth control and providing social security are appropriated by governments at county level and above for those who have already practiced the policy.Couples of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang rural areas who are willing to have only one or two children (adopted children included) in their lifetime, are eligible for applying for Certificate of Honor in Practicing Family Planning Policy. They could also receive a bonus of no less than 3000 RMB Yuan from the local government.In recent years, in order to enhance the quality of civic reproductive health, Xinjiang made constant efforts to improve services in birth control and reproductive health and spared no efforts in popularizing scientific knowledge in contraception and reproductive health. For example, there have been 9788 distribution sites so far in Xinjiang giving out condoms and other contraceptives materials free of charge. Seventeen types of contraceptives are offered annually for no charge; moreover, applications for smart phones are also developed to offer detailed information for sites providing contraceptives at prefecture, county and township levels, meeting individual needs for contraception and reproductive health. Safe, effective and appropriate contraceptive measures are available to couples of childbearing age, and fertile women accept tubal ligation and IUD operation spontaneously. In Hotan and other prefectures, the government follows the principle of combining people’s will with technical guidance, encouraging fertile women to choose internationally recognized tubal ligation and IUD operation which are slight in side effect, safe and effective. All the expenses of these operations are covered by the government. This is, as most anyone familiar with China will tell you, a fairly common shift of priorities in the country as a whole, a combination of the family planning laws that everyone is subject to with a general shift to more urban views of marriage shifting it from a thing you need to do asap and all. Again, you can disagree with things like the family planning policy, I think it's extremely backwards personally, but this is something that all groups are touched by it's not some magic Uyghur only thing.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:17
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sexpig by night posted:as was actually said in the tweet, birthrate alone is not an indication of anything, as that's about the most variable things possible to draw conclusions from. I'm pretty sure both India and Japan have had huge slopes down in birthrate over a bit of time, would you say that those are proof of nefarious activity done to those people too or would you look at other factors? if the current texas government enforced a two-child limit statewide I think a lot of people itt would consider it to be targeting hispanic and black families
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Mar 22, 2021 18:20
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Also you know that while the whole 'they're putting Uyghurs in organ harvesting camps' thing started in 2017 the crackdown in Xinjiang began in 2009 after the riots, and the Belt and Road expansion into the province started in '14 I think
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Mar 22, 2021 18:21
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:if the current texas government enforced a two-child limit statewide I think a lot of people itt would consider it to be targeting hispanic and black families well I'm convinced let's do regime change in China
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Mar 22, 2021 18:22
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spacemang_spliff posted:well I'm convinced let's do regime change in China weird that I'm the one being accused of arguing in bad faith here
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Mar 22, 2021 18:23
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:if the current texas government enforced a two-child limit statewide I think a lot of people itt would consider it to be targeting hispanic and black families what if for decades prior to this policy, Texas had enforced a one-child limit on white families that minorities were excluded from.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:23
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:weird that I'm the one being accused of arguing in bad faith here where did I do that
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Mar 22, 2021 18:25
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Atrocious Joe posted:what if for decades prior to this policy, Texas had enforced a one-child limit on white families that minorities were excluded from. and then what if, in response to 'terrorism', 'infiltration', and 'separatism', the Texas government explicitly encouraged families in majority-white counties to procreate while aggressively enforcing a new 'family planning' policy on the Mexican border
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Mar 22, 2021 18:26
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Atrocious Joe posted:what if for decades prior to this policy, Texas had enforced a one-child limit on white families that minorities were excluded from. no shut up don't use actual Chinese history and basic understanding of their laws, what if Greg Abbot personally swore to shoot any Mexican baby he saw, then you'd hate it.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:26
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