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You are One Of The Good Ones 
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Mar 23, 2021 13:33
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 05:52 |
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Orange Devil posted:The most insidious part of the discourse in the Netherlands is that middle class people believe en-block that even though there are issues in politics to discuss about, at the end of the day everyone living in the country has it good and no one has any *real* problems. Which is just so goddamn far from the truth, but we've really managed to build ourselves a nice little class apartheid system where you don't have to interact at all with the people living in precarity if you don't belong to that class unless you actively choose to. And anyone from the middle class and up having to deal with a serious problem (due to defunding of state institutions leading to more and more people slipping through the cracks and just being hosed over mercilessly, like say, youth mental health care being an utter disaster right now) is just mentally filed as an unfortunate (and shocking and totally unexpected) incident rather than the symptom of a giant structural problem which it absolutely is.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:42
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I agree with all of that op, but who cares about kids trick or treating tho. that's literally just being conservative for no reason. We didn't use to do that in my time! 
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Mar 23, 2021 14:04
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oliwan posted:I agree with all of that op, but who cares about kids trick or treating tho. that's literally just being conservative for no reason. We didn't use to do that in my time! It's the uncritical absorption of US bullshit when contrasted with ultraconservatism about national traditions when they're actively harmful that is maddening
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Mar 23, 2021 14:15
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Ah yes okay... that is totally correct
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Mar 23, 2021 14:19
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Osmosisch posted:It's the uncritical absorption of US bullshit when contrasted with ultraconservatism about national traditions when they're actively harmful that is maddening We can not possibly change our traditions and culture except for the wholesale way in which we whore ourselves out to the US at all times and call it progress. Like let's be real, does the average Dutch person know more about Halloween or Keti Koti? Even though the latter is part of our history and the former is not.
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Mar 23, 2021 14:31
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i am a legit cultural conservative and the USification of everything is so obviously the greatest threat to any cultural distinctiveness my country has that it boggles the mind that not everyone sees it. it's even seeping into the expectations people have of their working lives, it's bullshit!!! instead you get ridiculous moral panics about muslims which are transparently just racism dressed up as integrative concerns what i'm saying is, it's not your countrymen it's the entire cultural moment
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Mar 23, 2021 14:39
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I just find it hilarious that Halloween is fine but changing Zwarte Piet is messin wif our culture bah gawd :shakefist: But nothing was more cringeworthy than Baudet running a Trump style campaign and seeing Dutch dudes unironically wearing Dixie flag hats. yay I'm one of the good ones
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Mar 23, 2021 14:40
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we even import our culture wars from the US, the other day i endured some rear end in a top hat trying to make a fuss about firearm regulations and i could not give less of a poo poo
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Mar 23, 2021 14:40
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V. Illych L. posted:i am a legit cultural conservative and the USification of everything is so obviously the greatest threat to any cultural distinctiveness my country has that it boggles the mind that not everyone sees it. it's even seeping into the expectations people have of their working lives, it's bullshit!!! lol drat ok boomer
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Mar 23, 2021 14:52
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oliwan posted:I agree with all of that op, but who cares about kids trick or treating tho. that's literally just being conservative for no reason. We didn't use to do that in my time! We do 11th of november/Saint Martin* around here and it's pretty telling that that never spread through the rest of the country while Halloween is now being adopted in places where Saint Martin hasn't ever been. In some places there were even attempts to do both from what I've heard. I'll bet you if it now turned out that Saint Martin was a racist suddenly the nationalists would be fighting to replace Halloween with it nationwide though. *Dutch trick or treating holiday where kids carry a lantern and sing songs for candy
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Mar 23, 2021 14:59
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yes you're right let's all drive oversized cars to the mcdonald's and go slowly but thoroughly insane
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Mar 23, 2021 15:00
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V. Illych L. posted:USificationis even seeping into the expectations people have of their working lives, it's bullshit!!! This is easily the worst part. And something I have noticed as well.
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Mar 23, 2021 15:00
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Orange Devil posted:This is easily the worst part. And something I have noticed as well. join a union you stupid assholes!!! don't just give the bosses concessions for free aughhh
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Mar 23, 2021 15:02
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oliwan posted:lol drat ok boomer Just finished up my 30th Avengers re-watch, time to settle down and listen to Imagine Dragons - Radioactive a few times before bed.
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Mar 23, 2021 15:04
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The US is literally better at any cultural discipline than Europe though, whether that is film, TV, music, literature, you name it. Of course it's a numbers game, but it's still true. The US is also much better when it comes to anti-racist discourse than Europe.
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Mar 23, 2021 15:06
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oliwan posted:The US is literally better at any cultural discipline than Europe though, whether that is film, TV, music, literature, you name it. Of course it's a numbers game, but it's still true. What menu item at McDonald's do you consider to be the best?
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Mar 23, 2021 15:08
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oliwan posted:The US is literally better at any cultural discipline than Europe though, whether that is film, TV, music, literature, you name it. Of course it's a numbers game, but it's still true. lol
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Mar 23, 2021 15:15
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:What menu item at McDonald's do you consider to be the best? would you file that under film, TV, music or literature op? (see my post)
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Mar 23, 2021 15:27
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us culture is so hosed up that people routinely snap and go out to murder as many other people as they can also culture is not a set of products fulfilling easily measurable criteria, that is the attitude of a complete philistine - it's a category error. culture is produced and reproduced under different circumstances and playing different games - assuming an universal cultural standard and then judging whoever's politically most powerful as superior is literally the justification for every 'civilising' empire in history, you're just applying it to different factions of the imperial core and saying that they had it coming - which, sure, but it's still destruction of perspectives and often useful traditions
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Mar 23, 2021 15:38
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also also yanks aren't even making the best video games these days lmao
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Mar 23, 2021 15:47
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V. Illych L. posted:also also yanks aren't even making the best video games these days lmao Hell yes Larian ftw. And Owlcat, buggy but made with love.
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Mar 23, 2021 15:55
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everyone says theyre anti imperliast but then what they wanna be is either americans or english (ie east londoners actually)
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Mar 23, 2021 15:55
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I feel you about black friday. In Spain it didn't exist one year, and it existed the next. It was a massive amd obvious media blitz. Don't feel super bad, it's the same poo poo everywhere. Media blitzes. It is loving sad how uncritical everyone is tho.
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Mar 23, 2021 15:58
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Being pro-American culture is being pro-genocide, only question is whether you’re the perpetrator or the victim.
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Mar 23, 2021 16:02
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I mean, yeah, what people consider "U.S. culture" is thoroughly diseased, but it will never be not funny to see Europeans hold up the U.S. as somehow uniquely racist in comparison. All you gotta do is mention Roma and the average European immediately morphs into Oskar Dirlewanger.
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Mar 23, 2021 16:07
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oliwan posted:The US is literally better at any cultural discipline than Europe though, whether that is film, TV, music, literature, you name it. Of course it's a numbers game, but it's still true. so by your own admission, because the US has more examples of works in these disciplines, they are better, because quantity > quality regardless, on a qualitative basis, this is a completely subjective judgement and imo quite absurd
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Mar 23, 2021 16:09
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like, I am strongly against the use of canons as objective measures of quality in any artform, but I still find it absolutely bizarre to say that eg. the entire US literary canon is objectively superior to the European literary canon. e: and I realise that that's a superfluous statement because your judgement was quantitative rather than qualitative and the question of canon doesn't come into it, but oliwan, your entire statement boggles the loving mind you're probably still a good person but holy loving poo poo that's a horrible take Venomous has issued a correction as of 16:27 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 16:17
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SplitSoul posted:I mean, yeah, what people consider "U.S. culture" is thoroughly diseased, but it will never be not funny to see Europeans hold up the U.S. as somehow uniquely racist in comparison. All you gotta do is mention Roma and the average European immediately morphs into Oskar Dirlewanger. This so much.
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Mar 23, 2021 16:23
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SplitSoul posted:I mean, yeah, what people consider "U.S. culture" is thoroughly diseased, but it will never be not funny to see Europeans hold up the U.S. as somehow uniquely racist in comparison. All you gotta do is mention Roma and the average European immediately morphs into Oskar Dirlewanger. Correct
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Mar 23, 2021 16:34
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Venomous posted:so by your own admission, because the US has more examples of works in these disciplines, they are better, because quantity > quality no op, it's not quantity > quality. There's also more poo poo stuff coming from the US, but also more good stuff.
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Mar 23, 2021 16:37
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Like, if you have to list your like top 25 bands, movies, TV shows, etc and not half of them are american, you are either disingenuous or have terrible taste.
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Mar 23, 2021 16:40
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SplitSoul posted:I mean, yeah, what people consider "U.S. culture" is thoroughly diseased, but it will never be not funny to see Europeans hold up the U.S. as somehow uniquely racist in comparison. All you gotta do is mention Roma and the average European immediately morphs into Oskar Dirlewanger. Where is this? Everyone on SA says this but I've never noticed this from people around me here in the Netherlands. And that's not to pretend nobody's racist here, it's just that besides the "Zwarte Piet is fine, actually" stuff 99% of the racism I see is targeted at islamic people, especially Moroccans.
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Mar 23, 2021 16:45
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oliwan posted:no op, it's not quantity > quality. There's also more poo poo stuff coming from the US, but also more good stuff. "Anthony David Scott was an English film director and producer. " 
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Mar 23, 2021 16:45
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oliwan posted:no op, it's not quantity > quality. There's also more poo poo stuff coming from the US, but also more good stuff. so wait, does this only apply to modern media or are you genuinely saying that the entire corpus of American art since 1776 is better than the equivalent corpus of European art
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Mar 23, 2021 16:47
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Venomous posted:so wait, does this only apply to modern media or are you genuinely saying that the entire corpus of American art since 1776 is better than the equivalent corpus of European art I'm obviously talking about contemporary cultural output / art op
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Mar 23, 2021 16:50
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Griefor posted:Where is this? Everyone on SA says this but I've never noticed this from people around me here in the Netherlands. oliwan posted:I'm obviously talking about contemporary cultural output / art op In any case, American cultural/economic dominance changes what is pursued artistically by others, thus encouraging derivative Americanized art, rather than an independent and organisation homegrown artistic movement. That said, American art is itself quite influenced by the offspring of their own influence, with large parts of “American” culture in fact being a properly global Western culture, whether that be movie directors from New Zealand or Swedish Music producers. Specifically American culture is quite a bit more limited than what the Empire produces.
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Mar 23, 2021 17:06
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also 'the best (measured how lol) contemporary pop bands are american or basically americanised' is an enormously inadequate response to 'it is bad that the west is becoming increasingly culturally homogenous in a way that seems to be converging USian expression'
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Mar 23, 2021 17:10
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None of bolt thrower, bts, bong joo-ho or terry pratchett are american, qed. Their non-wwe wrestling is pretty good, I'll give them that.
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Mar 23, 2021 17:14
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V. Illych L. posted:also 'the best (measured how lol) contemporary pop bands are american or basically americanised' is an enormously inadequate response to 'it is bad that the west is becoming increasingly culturally homogenous in a way that seems to be converging USian expression' Give me your top 10 contemporary bands/ musical acts, and your top ten films of the last 3 years op
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Mar 23, 2021 17:18
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