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Timeless Appeal posted:Sorry, miscommunication there. I think that actually supports my point more though that Franken's actions were't really uniquely noble--for lack of a better word--though, no? I didn't say he was noble. Just apparently more decent than dick heads like Cuomo and Biden. And if a dem doesn't resign on their own there aren't any consequences, barring weiner.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:05
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To my mind, it's real simple: if someone has committed multiple sexual harassments they should not be allowed to hold a position of power over others regardless of whether their current victims forgive them or how sorry they claim to be. Neither of those things matter, get them out. Calls for an investigation always seems to amount to "okay how can we stall for long enough that people lose interest while we kick up enough dust to provide cover for letting him off the hook." Once in a while let's absolutely rush to judgment, especially when there's multiple accusations and photographic evidence
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Mar 19, 2021 19:56
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silicone thrills posted:I didn't say he was noble. Just apparently more decent than dick heads like Cuomo and Biden. And if a dem doesn't resign on their own there aren't any consequences, barring weiner.
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Mar 19, 2021 20:20
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some plague rats posted:Calls for an investigation always seems to amount to "okay how can we stall for long enough that people lose interest while we kick up enough dust to provide cover for letting him off the hook." Once in a while let's absolutely rush to judgment, especially when there's multiple accusations and photographic evidence This is basically it. Time for dust to settle and people to lose their wile and why they were riled up to begin with.
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Mar 20, 2021 10:19
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People really want to apply the standard of "innocent until proven guilty*" from criminal proceedings to the maintenance of the public trust, when it's convenient for them. But here's the thing: innocent until proven guilty is a standard to protect people from abuse by those with state power. It is not the standard to apply to a suspected rapist's continued control of state power. The standard to disqualify people from holding that power ought to be the slightest whiff of abuse, not photographic evidence from six angles and corroborating witness statements notarized the day of the incident. *by a justice system that is thoroughly and intentionally rigged to advantage rich white men from the law itself to prosecutorial discretion to the structure of court trials, but that's neither here nor there. The Oldest Man fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 20:19
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:It was a bit more complicated than that. Does just being around the troops turn you into Just A Kid Boys Will Be Boys by osmosis? Crosby B. Alfred posted:My take, while I think Franken resigning was the right decision it's nowhere near what it was played out to be. Franken might be very well be a lovely old dude but I'm not entirely confident this was the right outcome. He was grabbing young women at official party functions, how was it not the right outcome to force him out so he couldn't keep doing that? What was the alternative, just tell these ladies to take one for the team, Bill Clinton rules apply? His seat didn't even go to a Republican, there was no drawback to getting him out, even from a cynical realpolitik perspective. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 14:57
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:And to top it off, Tweeden had done similar raunchy skits. How is this relevant?
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Mar 22, 2021 15:43
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VitalSigns posted:How is this relevant? I don't think that guy is coming back
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Mar 22, 2021 20:28
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I feel as if this thread has run it's course. Everything already been addressed by myself and other posters. That is the best I am able to do. I see little value in explaining why context matters in any given situation such as these.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:16
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I feel as if this thread has run it's course. Everything already been addressed by myself and other posters. That is the best I am able to do. Just because you want it to have run it’s course doesn’t mean it has.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:21
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Nucleic Acids posted:Just because you want it to have run it’s course doesn’t mean it has. Sure, yes. I don't have anything to add is what I'm saying.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:22
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Sure, yes. I don't have anything to add is what I'm saying. Then quit posting.
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Mar 23, 2021 03:38
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I feel as if this thread has run it's course. Everything already been addressed by myself and other posters. That is the best I am able to do. did you get dunked on so hard you tried to get a whole thread closed
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Mar 23, 2021 04:17
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I feel as if this thread has run it's course. Everything already been addressed by myself and other posters. That is the best I am able to do. Why is "well to top it off she did some raunchy skits" important context for the sexual assault she suffered? How does making sexy jokes as part of her job contextualize getting assaulted by a coworker?
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Mar 23, 2021 04:43
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I feel as if this thread has run it's course. Everything already been addressed by myself and other posters. That is the best I am able to do. I think the issue is that you haven't explained why that bit of context matters significantly. e: lmao I didn't reload and VitalSigns beat me to it by like 45 minutes.
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Mar 23, 2021 05:26
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Majorian posted:I think the issue is that you haven't explained why that bit of context matters significantly. I'm not sure how to explain there's a difference between a a governor sexually harassing a staff aide then outright admitting vs. someone acting inappropriately during lewd comedy skit that's then shared delivered via highly partisan conservative talk radio might generate some skepticism. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 14:07
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I'm not sure how to explain there's a difference between a a governor sexually harassing a staff aide then outright admitting vs. someone acting inappropriately during lewd comedy skit that's then shared delivered via highly partisan conservative talk radio might generate some skepticism. There's a photo of Franken harassing Tweeden while she's unconscious and in his apology he admitted it wasn't part of a skit and she didn't consent to the photo. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sen-franken-embarassed-groping-claims-rebuild-trust/story?id=51394106 Al Franken posted:"I am ashamed of that photo. She didn’t have any ability to consent. She had every right to feel violated by that photo. I have apologized to her. I was very grateful that she accepted my apology. That is all I can say. My intent doesn’t matter. What matters is that she felt the way she felt from this photo and for that I am ashamed.” But even without the photo, I'm not sure why you're implying an actor in a lewd comedy skit is apparently not able to tell the difference between jokes and assault, isn't a professional in show business going to be more experienced at telling the difference between acting and real life? If she can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality, then she must have accused everyone on the USO tour of harassing or assaulting her yes? No? Just the guy who also assaulted a female soldier on the same tour who wasn't in a skit and also assaulted another dozen women over the course of his career (and that's only the ones we know of)? Hmmmm VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 16:36
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Also, again, more than one accuser Edit: I think I missed that at the bottom. Sorry
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Mar 23, 2021 16:47
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I'm not sure how to explain there's a difference between a a governor sexually harassing a staff aide then outright admitting vs. someone acting inappropriately during lewd comedy skit that's then shared delivered via highly partisan conservative talk radio might generate some skepticism. why do you keep claiming it was a skit, Frankin himself never did so what do you know that even he didn't?
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Mar 23, 2021 17:02
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So I came across this in my Twitter feed and it seems very very bizarre. The tweet author is a staff writer for The Atlantic. https://twitter.com/IsaacDovere/status/1374367075863556101 There's a bit more in the tweet chain, but... what the hell? Any chance she might be forced to say these things? Should we be worried about Reade's safety or anything?
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Mar 23, 2021 18:34
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:So I came across this in my Twitter feed and it seems very very bizarre. What bearing does this have on Joe Biden sexually assaulting her?
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Mar 23, 2021 18:41
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That is very bizarre. I don't quite know what to make of it. Reade has every right to do whatever she wants, clearly. I would think that if she was hoping for a second look from the American public, perhaps if more women came out and accused Biden of rape, a re-evaluation of #metoo, she wouldn't be jumping in bed with RT. Like, she's entirely within her right to do it but it just looks so bad. I guess she's well past the point of caring and just wants a sympathetic outlet no matter what else they do? Also, saying poo poo about Putin as a "Lion" is hosed. I can't emphasize how wrong I think she is on her read of loving Vladimir Putin, and I boggle at why she's going to bat for him. Just say nothing about Putin!
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Mar 23, 2021 18:45
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lol at the redbaiting done under the guise of concern about Reade's safety. I'm sure she could blink out some SOS McCain-style if she's being held captive by the Russkies.
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Mar 23, 2021 18:45
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:So I came across this in my Twitter feed and it seems very very bizarre. She's been an outspoken fan of Putin for at least a few years. In that tweet thread, you can see Isaac-Dovere link to a Salon article talking about it. In that article, it even says that Isaac-Dovere has used that line to try to discredit Reade
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Mar 23, 2021 18:48
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Kalit posted:She's been an outspoken fan of Putin for at least a few years. In that tweet thread, you can see Isaac-Dovere link to a Salon article talking about it. In that article, it even says that Isaac-Dovere has used that line to try to discredit Reade Yeah, I guess in that context it makes a bit more sense. Still weird as hell, but as 'How are u' said, she's free to stan for whoever she wants.
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Mar 23, 2021 18:50
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Kalit posted:She's been an outspoken fan of Putin for at least a few years. In that tweet thread, you can see Isaac-Dovere link to a Salon article talking about it. In that article, it even says that Isaac-Dovere has used that line to try to discredit Reade The actual former US president was making similar positive comments about Putin for years as well, and a large segment of the Republican party went along with it. The point is it's not a totally out of the mainstream view in America. As others mentioned it has no relevance to her sexual assault claim.
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Mar 23, 2021 18:57
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How are u posted:Just say nothing about Putin! Fun fact: this important lesson can also be applied to this thread
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Mar 23, 2021 19:03
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How are u posted:That is very bizarre. I don't quite know what to make of it. Reade has every right to do whatever she wants, clearly. She refused to go on Fox last year when her allegations first surfaced specifically because she didn’t want it to discredit her story. Very cool to go “yeeesh RT huh? not a great look” after her story still failed to dissuade you and thousands of other people from voting for her assailant
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Mar 23, 2021 19:22
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She's absolutely correct that her story was ignored because it was against Biden and people like people in this very thread this very page dismissed her as 'Russian propaganda' because of past things that had nothing to do with her allegations, so why once again play that card if not to cowardly dance around saying 'maybe she IS a lying Russian agent though'? What did that add to the topic of her allegations?
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Mar 23, 2021 19:22
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To be clear, I didn't say or suggest she's lying. If you think I did, perhaps you read too much into what I posted. If you feel so inclined, you can search my previous dozen or so posts in this thread and see that not only have I outlined my stance on this topic clearly, but also that said stance does not include "Reade lied about Biden."
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Mar 23, 2021 19:36
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:To be clear, I didn't say or suggest she's lying. If you think I did, perhaps you read too much into what I posted. If you feel so inclined, you can search my previous dozen or so posts in this thread and see that not only have I outlined my stance on this topic clearly, but also that said stance does not include "Reade lied about Biden." who gives a poo poo if she said Putin was good then
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Mar 23, 2021 20:11
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:To be clear, I didn't say or suggest she's lying. If you think I did, perhaps you read too much into what I posted. If you feel so inclined, you can search my previous dozen or so posts in this thread and see that not only have I outlined my stance on this topic clearly, but also that said stance does not include "Reade lied about Biden." Why bring up Putin at all then?
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Mar 23, 2021 20:29
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If you didn't want to dance around trying to discredit her you wouldn't have posted that stupid poo poo at all, who cares if she's praising Putin, I can sympathize with her being maybe a pinch bitter about American politicians right now, what does that have to do with the thread even if you find it 'bizarre'?
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Mar 23, 2021 20:31
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The thread is presumably about Tara Reade. If she mysteriously fell out a window tomorrow, I think we would be discussing that as well, even though it wouldn't be directly relevant to her allegations about Biden.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:51
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:The thread is presumably about Tara Reade. If she mysteriously fell out a window tomorrow, I think we would be discussing that as well, even though it wouldn't be directly relevant to her allegations about Biden. so what discussion would you like about the RT stuff, what's the topic? Just how 'bizarre' it is?
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Mar 23, 2021 20:56
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How are u posted:
It’s pretty clear there will be no “second look” into Biden from the American press anytime soon. They’re even carrying his water with all the concentration camp euphemisms, there’s overall very little appetite in digging further into what might be considered Biden’s negatives.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:59
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Jay-V posted:It’s pretty clear there will be no “second look” into Biden from the American press anytime soon. They’re even carrying his water with all the concentration camp euphemisms, there’s overall very little appetite in digging further into what might be considered Biden’s negatives. I think there would be if more women came out with accusations of rape. Cuomo is up to what, six or seven or eight accusations of harassment now? There's no guarantee of justice in Cuomo's case, but there's certainly a fight happening to try and enact some justice.
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Mar 23, 2021 21:01
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How are u posted:I think there would be if more women came out with accusations of rape. Cuomo is up to what, six or seven or eight accusations of harassment now? There's no guarantee of justice in Cuomo's case, but there's certainly a fight happening to try and enact some justice. Tara will get a second look if multiple accusers come forward regardless of her going on RT. More importantly, this (very common) line of thinking substitutes the sheer number of accusations for substantial investigation and vetting of claims, which is obviously as wrong as assassinating the character of a sexual assault survivor. I don’t blame Tara for assuming the u.s. media treats important establishment Dem politicians as “too big to investigate” without multiple accusers.
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Mar 23, 2021 21:21
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Jay-V posted:Tara will get a second look if multiple accusers come forward regardless of her going on RT. I agree with you on this, sorry if I wasn't clear.
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Mar 23, 2021 21:34
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Jay-V posted:Tara will get a second look if multiple accusers come forward regardless of her going on RT. The US media had no issues taking an aggressive stance against Sen. Franken, who was very popular and well-liked at the time, because he had nine accusers, and has no issues giving Cuomo's accusers plenty of coverage either (because he also has... what, seven accusers now?). The latter is particularly remarkable since he was treated as a hero for the better part of last year and enjoyed all kinds of positive coverage, to the point where he was told to have started to think about his own presidential run at some point, which won't be happening anymore because of these stories. With Biden though, there frankly wasn't a lot to go off of, from a media coverage perspective, other than (afaik) a few people in Reade's circle confirming that she (may have?) mentioned/complained about the issue to them back when she said it happened. So it really came down to a he said vs she said situation, and the media realized there wasn't enough actual substance to base a story on, at least beyond what a few outlets initially reported. Seriously, not even the craziest right-wing outlets seized it, despite the fact that it would have been a wonderful opportunity for them to bash Biden. That is to say, blaming the US media for not giving it coverage because Biden is an "important establishment Dem" is pretty silly. In fact, forget politics: there isn't any evidence that being just rich and powerful is sufficient protection from media scrutiny, as we saw with Harvey Weinstein. On the contrary, it makes stories potentially juicier and makes it more likely that journos who want to make a name for themselves go digging.
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Mar 23, 2021 21:59
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