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Imagine the first time you saw metalworking. A dude takes a bunch of rocks and through techniques you don't understand, converts them into a glowing liquid and then creates a tool from it harder than anything you've ever used before. Pretty easy to see how that would get wrapped up in magic.
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Mar 21, 2021 21:18
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Smiths were also very careful to keep their secrets close as to protect their methods from being discovered which inevitably fuelled speculation.
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Mar 21, 2021 21:23
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Weka posted:The article fishfood posted said Phillip's iron armour was iirc 5mm thick, twice as thick as comparable bronze armours, due to manufacturing difficulties. You are correct, it does say that, but it is uncited and doesn't sound right to me. Specifically, I would like to know what manufacturing difficulties are hinted at here, or if it's just an assumption. Wrought iron has a tendency to split if worked thin, but that's more in the 1mm range, and Philip's cuirass is fairly flat, not the globose or intricately ridged (for her protection) styles that show up in the 15th century AD.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:33
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:You are correct, it does say that, but it is uncited and doesn't sound right to me. I also feel like someone in the thread mentioned that it's pretty difficult to know the original thickness of old iron objects because of how it corrodes. But that may be less of a factor for Philip's cuirass, given its incredible preservation.
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Mar 22, 2021 00:48
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Grand Fromage posted:Imagine the first time you saw metalworking. A dude takes a bunch of rocks and through techniques you don't understand, converts them into a glowing liquid and then creates a tool from it harder than anything you've ever used before. Pretty easy to see how that would get wrapped up in magic. Yeah I imagine this happened a lot, though isn't that exact sequence of events fairly unlikely, given that cast iron is generally too brittle to be useful for tools? You'd have to impress them with your sweet rear end pan.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:05
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Cast iron came about after wrought iron, the latter of which is created in bloomeries, where you don't melt the iron, but instead reduce the oxygen from the iron oxide ore. Those scenes The Two Towers, or when the Lannisters melt down Ned Stark's sword, were done with molten aluminium as the prop, not actual cast iron.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:32
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FishFood posted:I also feel like someone in the thread mentioned that it's pretty difficult to know the original thickness of old iron objects because of how it corrodes. But that may be less of a factor for Philip's cuirass, given its incredible preservation. Yes, rust takes up a higher volume than iron does. Philip's armour has definitely rusted. Phobophilia posted:Those scenes The Two Towers, or when the Lannisters melt down Ned Stark's sword, were done with molten aluminium as the prop, not actual cast iron. Those scenes riled me up, especially the GoT one.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:07
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Ahem that was Valyrian Steel not iron so obviously it has unique properties due to its enchanted nature.
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Mar 22, 2021 09:34
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I'm not an expert but it makes the most sense to me that it's symbolic of civilization while mythical creatures are associated with the wild.
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Mar 22, 2021 09:38
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https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1373692614172667908 https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1373693029362626568 https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1373693468690747397 https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1373693818562871300 https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1373696236054777859
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Mar 22, 2021 09:57
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CrypticFox posted:https://twitter.com/OptimoPrincipi/status/1373692614172667908 Knowing that would have made Latin exams so much easier.
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Mar 22, 2021 12:11
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Benagain posted:yeah I'd like ancient urban history recs too https://www.amazon.com/Oratory-Political-Power-Roman-Republic/dp/0521823277 Roman history in that period is well-attested enough to examine the interplay between elites and regular joes on the streets. Best I can come up with off-hand.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:29
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That theater is now a big hole in the middle of the street where cats live It actually rules, very good city block imo
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Mar 22, 2021 18:56
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I feel it comes up every couple of years, but isn't the cat hole where Caesar got stabbed? Before it was the cat hole, obviously.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:02
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Elissimpark posted:I feel it comes up every couple of years, but isn't the cat hole where Caesar got stabbed? I think Caesar got stabbed about a block away, where there is only streets and no cat hole
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Mar 22, 2021 19:16
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Elissimpark posted:I feel it comes up every couple of years, but isn't the cat hole where Caesar got stabbed? Not quite in the cat hole but nearby. I forget exactly how the layout matches to what's left, but Pompey's Theater had the curia attached to it (it's the rectangle at the center of the seats in that drawing) and I believe the theater/curia itself is under a neighborhood. The cat hole is a temple complex that was right next to it. Important context: https://i.imgur.com/OxOphAx.mp4 E: https://romeonrome.com/2014/12/finding-pompeys-theater-in-the-campo-marzio/ Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 19:17
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Oh okay. That bump is actually a temple, the curia was on the other side of the complex. You can actually still see the theater seats in the layout of the current city, the modern buildings are curved in the same way. Cat hole is on the right. Apparently the curia is right at the edge of it.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:27
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It’s insane I had to read that as tweets doubled up Not blaming the op, twitter is just stupid
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Mar 23, 2021 01:10
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https://twitter.com/CSMFHT/status/1374112358860087296
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Mar 23, 2021 03:12
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Forgive me if these questions are asked every three pages, but does anyone have good recommendations for books on Roman history, particularly the early and mid Imperial periods? I realize this is a vast area; I have a pretty good reading list of primary sources to look at, but I'm not sure where to begin with modern histories which I think could provide useful context and overviews. Also, specific questions: 1. Is the Mike Duncan Rome podcast worthwhile? 2. Any specific recs on Aurelian & the Crisis of the 3rd century? 3. Specific recs on Augustus, especially Augustus vs. Antony & Cleopatra, and Roman Judea? 4. Finally, anything on the Parthians and Sassanids. Thanks!
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Mar 23, 2021 07:44
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You know reading about how Romans pondering over what case to use for a word really brings me back to Latin classes in high school. This kind of debate with the ablative would eventually devolve into this.
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Mar 23, 2021 08:10
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porfiria posted:Forgive me if these questions are asked every three pages, but does anyone have good recommendations for books on Roman history, particularly the early and mid Imperial periods? I realize this is a vast area; I have a pretty good reading list of primary sources to look at, but I'm not sure where to begin with modern histories which I think could provide useful context and overviews. Also, specific questions: 1. No.
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Mar 23, 2021 08:51
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ChubbyChecker posted:1. No. 1. Yes. It’s a great introduction to lots of the people, events and controversies and will cover more more detail than most people will ever know about Ancient Rome.
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Mar 23, 2021 12:02
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porfiria posted:Forgive me if these questions are asked every three pages, but does anyone have good recommendations for books on Roman history, particularly the early and mid Imperial periods? I realize this is a vast area; I have a pretty good reading list of primary sources to look at, but I'm not sure where to begin with modern histories which I think could provide useful context and overviews. Also, specific questions: I got about five minutes into Mike Duncan before I couldn't take it. ymmv David Potter's The Roman Empire at Bay and Adrian Goldsworthy's How Rome Fell both spend a good deal of time on the third century crisis. John White's The Roman Emperor Aurelian also spends a while on it for context’s sake and is the only good book about Aurelian that I know of -- there is frankly not much that we actually know about the guy. Goldsworthy's biography of Augustus is pretty good, albeit somewhat apologetic. A somewhat more controversial but still sympathetic take can be found in Peter Wiseman's House of Augustus. Both are reacting at least in part to the image of Augustus as sinister quasi-fascist in Syme's Roman Revolution, which is worth reading, though older, denser, and not mostly about Augustus personally. skasion fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 13:08
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Sri.Theo posted:1. Yes. It’s a great introduction to lots of the people, events and controversies and will cover more more detail than most people will ever know about Ancient Rome. Much of that information is incorrect, so those people will be worse off than they started with.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:17
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History of Rome is for people who have never and probably would never read a history book. It's a bridge for those people to go from knowing basically nothing to having enough understanding that looking deeper or reading a history book doesn't seem so scary. If you are a historian the small mistakes are going to make it terrible in your eyes, but it's a lot better than any other accessible pop history. It also doesn't help that the early episodes are lower quality, in terms of audio and accuracy of content. If you know your Roman history, you are probably better off jumping in later. e: The people who it is for will never remember the inaccuracies, just the main events, so claiming being completely ignorant of events as a superior state is pretty gross.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:19
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HoR is tricky because the first like....bunch are bad. He starts adding in jokes at some point roughly around the same point the audio improves- not like, knee slappers but something to break up the narrative flow a bit. Honestly, I would probably rate Revolutions higher than HoR for a bunch of compelling reasons.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:22
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My compelling reasons are here next to me just out of frame
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Mar 23, 2021 13:41
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JesustheDarkLord posted:My compelling reasons are here next to me just out of frame Well I like the stories better (Haiti in particular is genuinely drastically understudied and under represented in popular culture), they're more modern and as such the sources are better and he can construct more compelling narratives around what he has. He also, in that particular pop historian way, has a tendency to be much better at the personalities and rhetoric of, say, Metternich or Talleyrand because he is closer to their context and understands them better than his work on Rome, in my limited observation as a layman. His arguments improve over time in the abstract too - gets better at delivering a satisfying and interesting episodic slice of the issue he is examining. Kind of off topic, though.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:50
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Can you guys give examples on where Mike Duncan went wrong with HoR?
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Mar 23, 2021 15:03
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Mike Duncan has said he's never going to go back and re record the first few rough episodes of history of Rome so you just have to deal with it. Revolutions! is a much better podcast though. He's more thoughtful about what he covers and the more limited scope of working season to season avoids the burnout that became apparent in the second half of History of Rome.
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Mar 23, 2021 16:49
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So far I don't think anybody's pointed out any major inaccuracies in Revolutions (beyond the subjectivity of historicity in general, especially with heavily ideological events), so I assume it's up to date with current scholarship. I think it's very informative about a lot of the events and background. I don't think most people ever talk about the French Revolution starting out as the Crown trying to scrape together funds after ridiculously flamboyant accounting fraud left it broke, and there's an interesting perspective when you go from revolution to revolution and see how things influence eachother and what figures actually manage to keep popping up. I don't think I even knew about 1848 before. My favorite season is the one on the Mexican Revolution though, partly because I knew so little about Mexican History, and partly because it's such an amazing story with a cast of characters with diverse motivations, intentions, and methods. The only major thing I know was left out is that he didn't cover Ireland during the English Revolution.
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Mar 23, 2021 17:31
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Arglebargle III posted:Revolutions! is a much better podcast though. He's more thoughtful about what he covers and the more limited scope of working season to season avoids the burnout that became apparent in the second half of History of Rome. I think I can sense his politics changing as he goes too. I'm making my way through 1848 right now, and over the last few years (especially in Haiti and South America) you can sense his growing disillusionment with bourgeois revolutions.
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Mar 23, 2021 17:52
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Grand Fromage posted:Not quite in the cat hole but nearby. I forget exactly how the layout matches to what's left, but Pompey's Theater had the curia attached to it (it's the rectangle at the center of the seats in that drawing) and I believe the theater/curia itself is under a neighborhood. The cat hole is a temple complex that was right next to it. I assumed it was the historical nature of the place, but honestly, if you'd told me I'd flown across an ocean to go see those cats I'd have been OK with it.
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Mar 23, 2021 18:01
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Gaj posted:Question about the homeless in the ancient world. My understanding is that for a long, long time, walled cities were the exclusive residence of the citizenry and elite. How was homelessness handled, were they alllowed to remain within the walls or cast out with the general populace? Think like Athens during Pericles. Barrels
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Mar 23, 2021 19:08
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81HUn352hZ4&t=32s Lol
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Mar 23, 2021 19:12
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PittTheElder posted:I think I can sense his politics changing as he goes too. I'm making my way through 1848 right now, and over the last few years (especially in Haiti and South America) you can sense his growing disillusionment with bourgeois revolutions. He’s def gone from solid lib to leftist He really starts shifting in the French Revolution one In the Russian one he’s full blown.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:38
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The French Revolution one is incredible. I’ve listened to it three times.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:40
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Yeah, later in that movie we see what a lovely sword that is, can be broken by any rusty piece of junk from a grave.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:43
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