Rutibex posted:That's fair enough. WotC is a powerful media company and they have used their influence to shape what games are played. If I want to play a role-playing game my best option to find players is D&D 5e, and WotC is responsible for that situation. Good to know that you support the racist game made by racists.
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Mar 23, 2021 18:53
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Meinberg posted:Good to know that you support the racist game made by racists. Gary Gygax is dead he can't change his opinions any more. Which company owns the monopoly rights to D&Ds intellectual property is immaterial, there is no racist content appearing at my table. If WotC is a lovely company I will give them no money and I will continue to play D&D. Because D&D belongs to me and the rest of the players, not WotC.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:05
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New 5e setting coming out from some Blizzard Alums. Kickstarter launches on 4/20 (nice).
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Mar 23, 2021 19:09
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Rutibex posted:Gary Gygax is dead he can't change his opinions any more. Which company owns the monopoly rights to D&Ds intellectual property is immaterial, there is no racist content appearing at my table. no, d&d 5e belongs to wotc and by playing their game you are supporting their business regardless of if you personally purchase any content from it
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Mar 23, 2021 19:15
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Zuul the Cat posted:New 5e setting coming out from some Blizzard Alums. Kickstarter launches on 4/20 (nice). i'm really glad that CORRUPTION is included in the core book as a game mechanic, it's everything I need from Metzen
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Mar 23, 2021 19:16
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Zuul the Cat posted:New 5e setting coming out from some Blizzard Alums. Kickstarter launches on 4/20 (nice). Based on a campaign Metzen was in, in the 80's and 90's. I'm not expecting much other than another generic Euro-fantasy setting. The current state of D&D worlds is exhaustingly mediocre and tired.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:34
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Zuul the Cat posted:New 5e setting coming out from some Blizzard Alums. Kickstarter launches on 4/20 (nice).
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Mar 23, 2021 19:42
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As I recall the race rules in Tasha are explicitly optional, so arguing this is somehow a different WotC than the WotC proudly making the white elves smarter than the black elves is a bit of a stretch.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:50
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Given the hue and cry that they cannot possibly be ignorant of, and the fact that this keeps happening, I'm less and less inclined to give WotC the benefit of the doubt here. i don’t think it’s intentional racism; i think the editors of official 5e content just insist on “punching stuff up” by stripping away things and making it more old school, and as a result you end up with content that has “unfortunate implications” (i.e. racism) out of tradition and a misguided attempt to align things stylistically but that’s what happens when you hire poc authors to write inclusive content and then give oversight to white editors who butcher it out of a myopic attempt at making it feel more “fantastical” or what have you i don’t think wotc actually cares, of course; if they did they would’ve actually removed the “evil eye” curse from the vistani or at least restricted it to characters it makes sense for as opposed to a whole race of people doin curses on their perceived enemies but that’s just my opinion
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Mar 23, 2021 20:00
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Declan MacManus posted:i don’t think it’s intentional racism; i think the editors of official 5e content just insist on “punching stuff up” by stripping away things and making it more old school, and as a result you end up with content that has “unfortunate implications” (i.e. racism) out of tradition and a misguided attempt to align things stylistically Well, according to DC's statement of what is going on in WotC, power seems to be resting in a centralized degree on the shoulders of Mike Mearls, who is so enamored with the historical D&D, a D&D so rooted in racism that it's irremovable, that it's all but impossible to describe him as not-racist. And since he's using his editorial power to pursue action that is absolutely racist, I don't think it's possible to call D&D not-racist, even in its current format. Add to this the way marginalized people are used as shields for their lovely behavior, and you arrive at a situation where supporting the game, even non-financially, is to, at least a little, be complacent in empowering the racism of D&D.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:08
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There is definitely a problem with the concept of "fantasy races" in general, especially considering they can all interbreed with humans in most every setting. This means on a biological level these "fantasy races" are just humans, but the fiction is presenting them as an alien "other". That means the concept of "fantasy races" is just a fantastical version of old colonial racial attitudes. You can say this race is smarter than that race if its Orc vs Elves, but you certainly can't say the northern humans of the forgotten realms have higher intelligence than the southern humans or something like that. The fantasy races act as a proxy to keep eugenics in.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:09
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Pretty sure no one is saying it’s cool and good that WotC is being racist. In fact, unless I missed it, no one has come out in support of it in this thread.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:09
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What they did to PoC gamer is bullshit from multiple perspectives, but I should probably stop being surprised by how many posters leap on any excuse to tell people that D&D is bad and they should play anything else.
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Mar 23, 2021 21:34
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"I want change to happen but not like this!"
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Mar 23, 2021 22:06
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I come from the future. This line of discussion ends stupidly, and with implications of people being racist because of the elf game they use the baseline system of.
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Mar 23, 2021 22:10
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Different people will have different levels of comfort in terms of what they view as "supporting" or "not supporting" bad actions by Wizards of the Coast. You are free to disagree on those points, but, this is the D&D 5e thread, people are still allowed to discuss, and play D&D using this thread as a resource, and I would appreciate toning down rhetoric that paints your fellow posters as "racist" for choosing a different way to engage with this material than you. This is a specific application of the more general requests I made earlier: Leperflesh posted:I'm not asking for a kumbayaa party where we never say negative things. This is still the somethingawful forums, we're known to be a rowdy and contentious bunch. I'm just asking for you guys to offer each other a little slack, lay off a bit on the negative nancy routine, and let people who are enthusiastic about playing this game have their chats about playing this game, OK? Leperflesh posted:Regardless of where you come down on all of that as applied to dungeons and dragons fifth edition, kindly engage with posters who prefer a different kind of game, respectfully. You don't have to agree, you're welcome to cite rules and previous editions etc., but being smug or derisive is unnecessary and unhelpful... in fact it tends to undermine your point by just getting people mad. We do not need posters whose sole purpose in the D&D 5e thread is to berate people who play D&D 5e.
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Mar 23, 2021 22:17
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Fine with me, my core point wasn't that playing D&D is racist. It was that if you already think D&D is racist, saying "Well I'll keep playing it but not pay for it" is a weird way to react to that revelation. As always, play what you will.
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Mar 23, 2021 23:50
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To try and shift the discussion in a more positive direction, what are some non- (or at least less-) problematic settings / campaigns / material / etc.? I'd hope there'd be some good homebrew stuff, if nothing else.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:00
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megane posted:To try and shift the discussion in a more positive direction, what are some non- (or at least less-) problematic settings / campaigns / material / etc.? I'd hope there'd be some good homebrew stuff, if nothing else. Eberron, and Exandria are pretty good. As most of the "advancements" WotC has made to the core 5e FR stuff as far as less problematic comes from them.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:08
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Dexo posted:As most of the "advancements" WotC has made to the core 5e FR stuff as far as less problematic comes from them. ahaha what the gently caress wizards has consistently taken a poo poo on anything resembling representation in the Realms in 5e and is repeatedly making things WORSE just like they did with the PoCGamer adventure that started this whole discussion off! They haven't done a single good thing to actually make representation in the FR any better in 5e, don't give them credit when they're being corporate shitheads again and again and again
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Mar 24, 2021 00:10
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What if ElfGames were based on Tekumel instead of D&D/LotR
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Mar 24, 2021 00:14
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Arivia posted:ahaha what the gently caress Chill out. Just chill. I'm not giving WotC any credit I simply said the things that WotC has changed within the system(negative stats on racials, customizable racial stats and the like etc) are things that other writers like Keith Baker on Eberron had been doing that they retroactively added in. I even loving put "advancements" in scare quotes. Relaaaax.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:19
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Dexo posted:Chill out. Just chill. I'm not giving WotC any credit why are you making this an FR thing then, instead of them unfucking their racial stats system
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Mar 24, 2021 00:20
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:What if ElfGames were based on Tekumel instead of D&D/LotR Eh Tekumel definitely still had a problem where the world was divided pretty evenly into "humans and their lower ring alien toadies" and "evil naked alien savages in the wilderness." Would have been nice to see that progress and get repaired at least.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:22
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Arivia posted:why are you making this an FR thing then, instead of them unfucking their racial stats system Because FR is 5e's campaign setting, and as such changes to the system mechanically, have an influence on the setting these characters are meant to play in. But whatever I guess I'll try and be more specific and avoid mentioning campaign settings.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:30
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Dexo posted:Because FR is 5e's campaign setting, and as such changes to the system mechanically, have an influence on the setting these characters are meant to play in. Yes, please do. Your language means something, and you're making things come off worse when you paint with such an incorrect broad brush. The changes you listed were not changes to or about the Forgotten Realms, nor were they predated in Eberron or Exandria - they were changes generated in and to the core rules of 5e as a whole, not specific settings. It's relevant to compare portrayals of races/monsters across settings, but you weren't doing that - your entire post was misleading and incorrect, hence my response.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:38
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megane posted:To try and shift the discussion in a more positive direction, what are some non- (or at least less-) problematic settings / campaigns / material / etc.? I'd hope there'd be some good homebrew stuff, if nothing else. my custom homebrew setting is good op.
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Mar 24, 2021 02:23
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pog boyfriend posted:my custom homebrew setting is good op. yeah mine too
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Mar 24, 2021 02:25
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You should post about your homebrew settings in the Settings Thread! (Please, I really want that thread to get more attention)
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Mar 24, 2021 02:41
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I like the setting from original edition Immortals box set. With all these world spheres and 7-dimensional abominations and all kinds of just really bizarre stuff 
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Mar 24, 2021 02:54
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When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM.
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Mar 24, 2021 03:06
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radlum posted:When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM. Personally, I’ve been listening to some audiobooks with talented narrators and then trying subtle accents when reading to my wife. I’ll never be “good” at doing voices, but I’m doing my best to train myself to not be completely bad. My last group ended abruptly back in October, but I hope that when I get time to DM again, I can bring a little more to the table as DM.
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Mar 24, 2021 03:09
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radlum posted:When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM. I have 4 voices for NPCs and my player learn to deals: 1. Kronk 2. Macho Man Randy Savage 3. Deckard Cain 4. Awful feminine voice
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Mar 24, 2021 03:24
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Rutibex posted:I like the setting from original edition Immortals box set. With all these world spheres and 7-dimensional abominations and all kinds of just really bizarre stuff For as neat and absolutely  the stuff about the various dimensions and poo poo the Immortals set had, you're now stepping into a whole new pile of poo poo. For as much as I credit BECMI D&D for getting me interested in tabletop RPGs for the past 27 years, Frank Mentzer has shown himself to be kind of a sexist rear end in a top hat in recent years, and I'm kinda getting tired of having to dodge the minefield of lovely RPG designers and authors.radlum posted:When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM. I can do voices, but it's actually much easier to change the actual cadence and language used in order to differentiate between NPCs. For example, the gruff bartender might slur his words together and be a bit short, while a princess might speak more eloquently and enunciate much more. Play with not only the words you speak, but the manner in which you speak in order to change things up. A studious yet harebrained wizard is going to talk differently than the neighbor's kid, and by trying to come up with different ways of speaking it honestly goes a lot farther than my lovely falsetto ever could.
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Mar 24, 2021 03:26
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radlum posted:When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM. Only the important or recurring ones, otherwise they get my normal voice or "they tell you ___" Of course, the only voices I can do are 1) Southern, either genteel or super deep prospector, 2) Okay lady voice 3) The Queen 4) Gruff orc (I played a one-off with a really good DM who could only do this one voice, it was great otherwise) 5) Super Jewish New York/New Jersey guy OR grandmother, for some reason only reserved for archmages and archdruids so far
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Mar 24, 2021 03:30
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radlum posted:When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM. on the theory that it's better to not do a voice/accent than to do a bad one, i personally don't try in that regard and make a point of just using my normal voice for female characters the only time i really do voices is when i want a little levity, like when i was running Sunless Citadel and made the kobolds there into bootleggers running a still and i gave all the kobolds a prohibition gangster by way of looney tunes voice. there wasn't gonna be a lot of talking one way or the other so if it didn't work i could drop it easy and i didn't need to really be consistent because no one really knows how that accent is supposed to sound. for the record, it went over well but i also did my best to not let it overstay its welcome if i've got two NPCs that need to be talked with, i'll try to pitch my voice up or down for one or the other, or if it's a gaggle of NPCs, i'll give them little vocal ticks like laughing too much or saying "mmmmhhhhhmmmm" after making a point, but i try to avoid lots of NPCs at once when playing over the internet just because a lot of subtlety gets lost between lovely mics and lovely headsets/speakers
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Mar 24, 2021 03:34
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Aniodia posted:For as neat and absolutely I like this advice; I might not be able to do actually good voices, but the choice of words and the way they are enunciated are easier for me to change.
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Mar 24, 2021 03:40
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radlum posted:When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM. If you don't like doing it then don't and your games will be better for it. Focusing on changing your inflection and tone might be a lot easier and can convey information a lot cleaner than trying to maintain a consistent X accent for someone. I also don't use voices for the characters all the time, normally I start with a voice for a few important lines to set the mood or for roleplaying scenes and then use a more narrative format for everything else.
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Mar 24, 2021 03:46
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radlum posted:When you DM do you make voices for all your NPCs? My current DM is OK at making voices (to be honest, I find it corny most of the time and just bad when it comes to voicing female NPCs), but that's not my thing and that's the one thing that I'm not that excited about when I start my own campaign as DM. I've actually had a couple of my players complement me on my ability to do voices both when I GM and when I'm playing, so I'm apparently pretty good at it? My main advice is that sometimes little changes in tone, inflection or speaking patterns go a long way to making a character sound distinct, and it's often more helpful to try and do a voice that conveys the character's personality rather than trying to imitate what you think they'd sound like in real life. I also usually don't bother trying to alter the pitch of my voice when I'm playing women, just because my natural speaking voice is fairly deep and so I'm not really able to realistically imitate a woman's voice. I instead try to focus more on inflection and personality, just telling the other players "This NPC is a woman". In one of the endgame sessions for the Tomb of Annihilation campaign I've been running the players had ended up accumulating somewhere in the vicinity of 12+ tagalong NPCs and, after getting frustrated trying to keep track of all of them, I just ended up going down the list and having every one of them chime in to remind the party they were still around in whatever voice I'd used for them.
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Mar 24, 2021 03:56
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Toshimo posted:I have 4 voices for NPCs and my player learn to deals: How dare you steal my voice set. Wait...I've also got "Southern Good 'Ol Boy", since that's half my family.
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Mar 24, 2021 05:16
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