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on the one hand you have "i demand code tests similar to what i'll actually do, this is just a way to cut people not exactly like the interviewer." on the other you have "this is too much like real work, you're trying to get free labor" the worst part is that it's not even _wrong_ to say those things. they're both correct. interviewing is garbage
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Mar 23, 2021 04:11
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Seems like they're more or less trying to figure out if you actually know fourier transforms back and forth, which, for an instrumentation company, would be absolutely key to hiring a new engineer who knows enough to not have to be remedial for a few months. That said you can probably get paid double or more to do that work elsewhere, $42k is insanely low for an EE. I know UK engineering salaries are depressed but man they've really hosed their talent over
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Mar 23, 2021 05:01
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I know how to do it I think (parse the data, compute power-of-2 points using linear approximation, do an fft, find the highest amplitude, store its frequency in a string/double pair into a vector of results, output to a results file) but I'm honestly not that keen on it, especially when code quality, tests, etc, will be a factor I'm not sure if windowing matters for the data given, also not sure if linear approximation is the way to go either way just, maybe if I feel like it later on, I have other things going on and I'm not extremely confident I would meet the required standard even if I do put the work in Private Speech fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 13:57
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Not a Children posted:Seems like they're more or less trying to figure out if you actually know fourier transforms back and forth, which, for an instrumentation company, would be absolutely key to hiring a new engineer who knows enough to not have to be remedial for a few months. i know there are specific circumstances where it makes sense but the general terror of having to train new hires continues to be a bummer
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Mar 23, 2021 14:26
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Achmed Jones posted:on the one hand you have "i demand code tests similar to what i'll actually do, this is just a way to cut people not exactly like the interviewer." on the other you have "this is too much like real work, you're trying to get free labor" i'd rather the take home that looks like what actually programming involves than the typical interviewing puzzle questions the whole "they're trying to get free labor out of you" thing seems like paranoia to me. it's hard to conceive of a situation where that would actually work and save time for the company, not to mention the legal implications. even if it happens it's likely rare enough that i wouldn't worry about it.
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Mar 23, 2021 14:46
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HappyHippo posted:i'd rather the take home that looks like what actually programming involves than the typical interviewing puzzle questions at least with the classic 5-6 hour long faang interview you're talking to people at the company, getting information about the job (or at least a job) and burning company time. giving you one problem that'll take a similar amount of time to do properly as a "take home" isn't really fair in comparison
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Mar 23, 2021 14:58
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Private Speech posted:I know how to do it I think (parse the data, compute power-of-2 points using linear approximation, do an fft, find the highest amplitude, store its frequency in a string/double pair into a vector of results, output to a results file) but I'm honestly not that keen on it, especially when code quality, tests, etc, will be a factor normally you just zero pad unless i misunderstood the question
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Mar 23, 2021 15:00
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raminasi posted:i know there are specific circumstances where it makes sense but the general terror of having to train new hires continues to be a bummer Not having a plan for training is a huge red flag for me. My first job was at a naval lab where they were trying to do knowledge transfer. Their process for this was to give me a bunch of reference manuals and put me in the same room as the septuagenarians with no actual process or plan for performing that knowledge transfer and keeping continuity of talent. The olds were always saturated and weren't actually given time to teach me the basics to lighten their workloads. After about a year and a half of this somehow not resulting in me becoming a signals testing wunderkind I left for the consulting industry because I was godawfully sick of asking for tasks every day and being blown off or asked to rerun the same analysis
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Mar 23, 2021 15:01
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hobbesmaster posted:normally you just zero pad unless i misunderstood the question yeah I thought about that, but with the data being non-linear time-wise I don't know either way I'll maybe put something together but it's a fair bit of work for a first step honestly would probably be easier as a fresh grad
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Mar 23, 2021 15:37
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you should return a 20-line solution that uses exec() and numpy
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Mar 23, 2021 17:04
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another recruiter sent me a mildly patronising document on how to best act during interviews one of the tips was literally “Yes I have a degree, in fact, I notice on Linked-In that we went to the same Uni” made me chuckle a bit Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 23:18
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Private Speech posted:another recruiter sent me a mildly patronising document on how to best act during interviews Lol this sucks so much
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Mar 24, 2021 00:59
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remember, never speak first. dress for the job you want and have a firm handshake
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Mar 24, 2021 01:01
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hobbesmaster posted:uh then how much can I charge per line of numpy Charge by the week and you can charge a week's rate. bob dobbs is dead posted:dont do this, you want a pipeline continuously goin until you literally sign an offer. and frankly maybe a little bit longer than that this is the way
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Mar 24, 2021 04:55
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So the company that wants me to do the clearance is pushing hard for me to do that, basically threatening that it will damage my reputation and chances with other employers in the area. The thing is - yes I did verbally accept that offer, but until I got the contract I wasn't aware of the stipulation requiring me to go through SC clearance (and reserving the right to sack me if I don't successfully), as they've only mentioned I'd need to do a lower level clearance. Is it really a huge issue that I changed my mind? It makes me a bit more leery to sign it if anything TBH. At the same time they're openly saying stuff like: quote:I was a little upset to hear that you had been applying to other roles after verbally accepting an offer at [company] and withdrawing from all other processes, it is not how we work and it doesn’t reflect well on anyone. [local area] is very incestuous, everyone knows everyone so you really do not want to burn any bridges before you begin your career there, especially not with a company that collaborates and partners with so many of the companies in [local area] from global semiconductors through to the SME’s and start-ups. And that does make me a bit worried. e: At the same time them threatening me before I even start, well, uhh, not sure how well that reflects on them. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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Mar 24, 2021 13:33
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Private Speech posted:So the company that wants me to do the clearance is pushing hard for me to do that, basically threatening that it will damage my reputation and chances with other employers in the area. i would politely tell them to gently caress off and walk away. my gut feeling is that they are threatening you to compensate their poor process. you can't blame anyone for keeping on looking until getting a written, signed contract. their reaction is a huge red flag to me.
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Mar 24, 2021 13:39
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They're just being assholes. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Mar 24, 2021 13:40
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How did they find out you’re still interviewing? Did you tell them or did they find out from connections? If the latter that’s unprofessional for everyone involved. Either way this place is asking you to leave your current job and take a huge risk that you may not pass the security clearance and won’t have a job with them either. They’re being absolute dicks to you at every step in the process too. Unless I was unemployed and going to starve I would not want to take a job from these people.
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Mar 24, 2021 13:48
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So my primary exit strategy didn't work out. Seems they went with someone else. Which I am not letting get to me. Made a list of places that seem exciting to work but I am seeing a languages I don't know as well as java/spring like golang, ruby(did NOT know that is what github uses), and python. I feel like I am letting this trip me up. How important would you say knowing the language is to a job using that language if you know another OOP language?
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Mar 24, 2021 13:51
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Steve Jorbs posted:How did they find out you’re still interviewing? Did you tell them or did they find out from connections? If the latter that’s unprofessional for everyone involved. I told an external recruiter who presumably told them, but yeah the whole thing makes me feel not great about everything. I'm thinking I'll just have a call with them clearly saying everything and hopefully they won't pursue it further with other local companies (that I'm interviewing with). They're a multinational consulting outfit so I don't even think there's all that much pressure they could put on, as they largely work in that capacity rather than hiring other companies (that I am aware of).
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Mar 24, 2021 13:53
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small areas or industries do tend towards rumor/blacklist, but if they have to threaten it, its not much of a threat its not on your resume so eh they withheld material information they can eat poo poo
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Mar 24, 2021 13:57
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Private Speech posted:I told an external recruiter who presumably told them, but yeah the whole thing makes me feel not great about everything. someone thinks they've already reeled you in and is being a dickhead boss already. Previously I'd have said just do the dumbass paperwork for SC as getting cleared opens more doors but this company sounds toxic
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Mar 24, 2021 13:59
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syntaxrigger posted:So my primary exit strategy didn't work out. Seems they went with someone else. Which I am not letting get to me. my general sense is that they kind of expect you to have some experience using the language. if they're extremely similar (like java/c#) it might be fine that said, any job description that mentioned golang was an instant pass from me
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Mar 24, 2021 14:05
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syntaxrigger posted:Made a list of places that seem exciting to work but I am seeing a languages I don't know as well as java/spring like golang, ruby(did NOT know that is what github uses), and python. I feel like I am letting this trip me up. How important would you say knowing the language is to a job using that language if you know another OOP language? Is Java/Spring your only thing? If you know Java plus almost any other lang you will be fine in go, ruby, or python. If you only know Java then learn a second programming language. Almost doesn't matter what it is just do something different that you want to try. Depending on what you're doing, I would consider golang, ruby, and python easier than java but familiar is easy so who knows. If you can autonomously complete work and solve an algo problem or two these are the last languages I would be worried about from an interviewing perspective. As to what an interviewer will consider, it depends. Some want someone who needs minimal training, others want someone proficient who can learn their stack. Better to treat interviewing as a numbers game than overly targeted imo. Be clear about what you want and play the numbers until you get it.
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Mar 24, 2021 14:05
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Private Speech posted:So the company that wants me to do the clearance is pushing hard for me to do that, basically threatening that it will damage my reputation and chances with other employers in the area. they would have no problem walking away from the verbal agreement, why do they think you should? unless you really need the job, gently caress ‘em. if this is how they treat people they’re trying to hire, imagine how they treat people they actually hire.
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Mar 24, 2021 14:13
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Chopstick Dystopia posted:Is Java/Spring your only thing? If you know Java plus almost any other lang you will be fine in go, ruby, or python. If you only know Java then learn a second programming language. Almost doesn't matter what it is just do something different that you want to try. I am sort of all over the map, which I feel works against me, but I have done some python ML stuff, C#, Node.js, and some front end stuff with Angular 1/React. I know that javascript is the language underneath Node.js, Angular, React but I feel like these are different experiences from an development perspective. Chopstick Dystopia posted:As to what an interviewer will consider, it depends. Some want someone who needs minimal training, others want someone proficient who can learn their stack. Better to treat interviewing as a numbers game than overly targeted imo. Be clear about what you want and play the numbers until you get it. This feels like good advice. I am probably not good enough to call my shot. Was still holding out hope for getting a company that doesn't make me hate programming. I guess we will see as I submit to the human meat grinder.
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Mar 24, 2021 14:19
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I wrote this thing:quote:I have to give my deepest apologies but I will not be able to sign the contract with [company] due to the SC-level security clearance which [company] applies for for all new starters, as per the details of the written contract. does that seem okay? e: sp. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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Mar 24, 2021 14:59
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syntaxrigger posted:So my primary exit strategy didn't work out. Seems they went with someone else. Which I am not letting get to me. ruby is a dead lang and go is only relevant if you work at google. if you think the company is actually interesting and you're will to put up with bad tools for interesting work, then you should consider it, but other than that I would stick to companies using real tools like c# or java
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Mar 24, 2021 15:04
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Private Speech posted:I wrote this thing: "I was not made aware" seems more accurate. I'm sure what you wrote is fine though.
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Mar 24, 2021 15:15
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Private Speech posted:
that company sounds lovely and you dont owe them any sort of apology for them not disclosing requirements. Thats their gently caress up. If the company is not lovely and you're just dealing with lovely HR, you may want to CC the hiring manager as well to make sure they realize HR hosed them, not you. Also if they offer non-SC positions you could add something like "I would still be interested in working at [company] for any current or future open positions that do not require a security clearance." On the other hand you know way more about the situation than I do so feel free to ignore any of these suggestions.
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Mar 24, 2021 15:17
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Shaggar posted:that company sounds lovely and you dont owe them any sort of apology for them not disclosing requirements. Thats their gently caress up. If the company is not lovely and you're just dealing with lovely HR, you may want to CC the hiring manager as well to make sure they realize HR hosed them, not you. Thanks for that those are good suggestions. AFAIK they don't have anything non-SC at all, apparently all permanent employees are required to obtain it as a "matter of company policy", or so says the contract. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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Mar 24, 2021 15:21
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Shaggar posted:ruby is a dead lang and go is only relevant if you work at google. if you think the company is actually interesting and you're will to put up with bad tools for interesting work, then you should consider it, but other than that I would stick to companies using real tools like c# or java Shaggar was right. Thanks shags
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Mar 24, 2021 15:45
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I once interviewed in I think the only Danish Go shop, Vivino, got rejected because I had to learn it (because I'm not gonna bother in my free time that's for sure). They are still looking for their Go unicorn.
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Mar 24, 2021 15:51
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Private Speech posted:yeah I thought about that, but with the data being non-linear time-wise I don't know is this the same as 'not evenly spaced'?
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Mar 24, 2021 15:55
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fritz posted:is this the same as 'not evenly spaced'? yeah, pretty much being fair it's basically what you can get from a trigger-based signal log or something, but I'm not quite mathy enough to know how to cope with it easily I've been having other interviews which are less algo-heavy so I'll probably pass on that tbh e: looking online it sounds like NUFFT, specifically NUFFT-III, is what I want, but still, eh Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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Mar 24, 2021 16:08
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raminasi posted:they would have no problem walking away from the verbal agreement, why do they think you should? unless you really need the job, gently caress ‘em. if this is how they treat people they’re trying to hire, imagine how they treat people they actually hire. yep. this is a massive red flag. explicitly threatening you like that is some mob-level bullying which for me would be an immediate dealbreaker. that reeks of a power tripping hr rear end in a top hat who relishes in the fact that they have control over people, loves to torture people with said power, and also WAY overestimates how much control they actually have. basically the most toxic kind of person. if it were me i would immediately cease communicating with them and refuse the offer to some other person who interviewed you while explicitly making it known that you’re walking because of their behavior
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Mar 24, 2021 16:13
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syntaxrigger posted:So my primary exit strategy didn't work out. Seems they went with someone else. Which I am not letting get to me. [shrug] I've found that porting my experience from one language to another is the easy part (unless it's Objective-C). The hard part is working with existing libraries, frameworks, etc. - especially if they're poorly documented.
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Mar 24, 2021 16:28
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there are a handful of objectively correct languages for each type of programming task. c# and java cover 80% of those tasks (by volume) and if someone is suggesting you use a different tool they better have a good reason and not just "oh i heard goog uses it" or "MIKKKRO$$$OOOFT!". the choice of something other than c# or java without real requirements is a red flag for bad organizational choices. the 20% is things like objc or c/c++ where you cant just cant use java/c# or they are too impractical (embedded) and then its fine
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Mar 24, 2021 16:53
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You forgot Python.
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Mar 24, 2021 17:02
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yeah thats one you definitely want to avoid
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Mar 24, 2021 17:04
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